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Track day announcements and discussion

14K views 93 replies 22 participants last post by  Rebel_yell 
#1 · (Edited)
As this car is well equipped for track days, (yes, I know the factory line) perhaps we should have a discussion thread devoted to that. If this gets traction maybe this would be suitable to be stickied too?

To start it off, anyone in or near the northeast signed up to attend the Lime Rock Park April 30 event? I have a coworker who is competetive and has won some annual championships (yes, w/a bmw; how'd you guess? ;) ). I am thinking of attending.

I did it a few times with factory MBs and a full day Skip Barber training event. I never did it with my own car on my own tires. Any tips?
 
#2 ·
As this car is well equipped for track days, (yes, I know the factory line) perhaps we should have a discussion thread devoted to that. If this gets traction maybe this would be suitable to be stickied too?

To start it off, anyone in or near the northeast signed up to attend the Lime Rock Park April 30 event? I have a coworker who is competetive and has won some annual championships (yes, w/a bmw; how'd you guess? ;) ). I am thinking of attending.

I did it a few times with factory MBs and a full day Barrett Jackson training event. I never did it with my own car on my own tires. Any tips?
I am planning to attend Lime Rock's May 28th event, and take my P*. Unfortunately I can't make the April 30th event. I am a total track day novice, so I am also open to any tips anyone has.
 
#3 ·
Ok, I'm signed up. Maybe I'll catch the bug and need to go the next month too. ;)
 
#4 · (Edited)
I would certainly recommend upgrading to some Motul RBF600 brake fluid for a track day. Lime Rock is the best track in the USA ;)
 
#5 ·
Polestar recommends fresh brake fluid and new tires.

Make shure you always drive a cooldown lap with very less braking to cool down the brakes. And never (!) lock the handbrake after lapping. I dont know that racetrack you guys are talking about, but it might be smart not to drive like 10 laps in a row without a cooldown lap. Another thing is tirepressure. The pressure will rise every lap and to maintain a good performance, after a few laps, you need to let out some air. On the other hand you need to put some air in again after a long break depending on how much air you let out.

Other than that, there is not much else to consider. The tires are UHP and not Semislicks, so getting the tires warm shouldnt be aproblem (on a GP track they will probably start to squeel after 3-4 laps due to the weight of the car)
 
#6 ·
Yep tire pressure should be your main concern when starting to do track days. You want them to be at HOT operating temps probably somewhere around 36 psi. So start them out cold at 32-33. Your left front at LRP will most likely be a little higher than the other three. Try to get them all equal. Enjoy it! Keep your eyes up. And be smoooooth!
 
#7 ·
Listen, I don't know squat about racing so I will defer to others on that but 32-33 psi sounds awful low for a tire meant to be at 38psi cold. There is not a lot of rubber to work with on there so I would be concerned about the pressure being too low, but what do I know.
 
#8 ·
No worries. I start my R out at 28 psi. So this (32-33) should still be a little on the conservative side for a 4000 lb fast car. Now LRP is a small track but I'm sure even a beginner can heat up a street tire pretty easy. Just remember to do at least two warm up and one cool down lap. On my warm up laps I look for manned corner worker stations and track conditions incase someone in the session before layed down some oil or kicked up some dirt at an apex. I do that religiously at every track I go to.
 
#11 ·
Tire pressures depend a lot on the tire. On my last car I did track days on Falken Azenis 615 and Michelin PSS tires. The Falkens liked hot pressures around 34 psi, the Michelins liked hot pressures around 41 psi. It depends on tire construction and the tread compound. Alignment also plays a role. More negative camber usually means you can run a slightly lower pressure since there will be less role over onto the sidewall. Since camber isn't adjustable on the Polestars, there will probably be significant wear on the outside shoulder of the front tires, so a little extra pressure might help.
 
#12 ·
Be prepared. Car has minimal camber so your tire pressure will be determined by your roll over on the front tires. The Michelins are fairly soft sidewalls so you might need to be in the high 40's to control the tire roll over (depending on how hard you drive).
 
#14 ·
Yep, great points all around. Much thanx.

As a matter of fact before the discussion even went there I was debating if I will bring the V60 or my AMG with a custom hand made suspension capable of dialing in the camber I want, and rear toe. OTOH I just HAVE to bring the Polestar.
 
#15 ·
Lime Rock was fantastic today. Sooo much more to come when I'm not using a phone to post. There are a lot more SCDA track days this year. You owe it to yourself to get to one or a few.

Will say one thing today. Polestar recommended track setting of 10 front 5 rear is spot on! I'll elaborate tomorrow.
 
#17 · (Edited)
#18 · (Edited)
Ok, so I understand why people were saying what they were about Lime Rock. Once you get the turns/apexes right, and hit the slight banks just right, the track is so exhilarating.

Turn three was the hardest to learn; what they call a sacrifice turn. But once you master that, you're setup for hammering it into and out of turn 4 onto the back straight (which is not so straight) into the uphill, and a good third of the track. The scary down-hill before turn 7 into the main straight was actually pretty easy for me to learn. And the car's willingness to save your arse even with ESC off, helped that. I can't tell you how many drivers of M3s and Corvettes were braking into turn four and seven in front of me and spoiling those turns. More on that later tho.

The big bend, the double turn 1 and 2 was the hardest for the car to cope with tho. And really at the heart of why I say Polestar got the 10/5 recommendation spot on.

So onto how the car faired. I started the day out with an instructor in the passenger seat. I could tell between my track rust, nervousness and braking when I should be setting up for a turn and motoring out of it, running the car in auto-sport mode, and forgetting to turn ESC off... he couldn't wait to get out of the car. I couldn't blame him either.

The next time I went out for our 20 minutes, I had the suspension on 10/6, ESC off. And everyone was on a tear. I was getting passed a lot. I just didn't have the turns right yet. And pretty much everyone in front of me (primarily those one or two gen old M3s and Vets) was pulling away from me in turns one and two. The car was really understeering and plowing a lot. I was keeping up with everyone with comparable performance the rest of the track, except those two main turns off the main straight. (there were a lot of guys with either a lot of power or stripped lightweight cars they trailered in and I could not come close to hanging with them)

After feeling like a novice from my time with the instructor, to the plowing & howling tires towards the end of the 2nd time out, and the massive sidewall scrubbing of the tires I found after coming in to the paddock, I decided to sit my third set out and took pictures. And started thinking this may be my last time with the Polestar on the track; I did all those mods to the AMG to make it do well on the track, so maybe I should keep it instead of sell it. My options were to either go softer in the front, which I quickly rejected, or go stiffer to the recommended setup. And wow, did going from 6 to 5 in the rear work magic!

So the last time out...
- after thinking about the track's turns for a few hours and locating all the tricky bits in my head
- running higher starting pressure (38psi) from the get go
- running the dampers on 10 front 5 rear
- about 2 hours of cloud cover cooling the track and air (our tires do not like a hot track!)
... everything came together.

The same silver M3 (one or two gen old) that kept braking into the key turns was right in front of me as we went out that spoiled the fun for me last time out. But this time he let me pass him with a point-by in one lap (my car was as fast as his in the straight and why he probably felt he shouldn't let me pass; but he was piss'n me off in the turns!). I came upon an orange Vet (one or two gens old too). I don't really know if he was babying his car or just couldn't drive. But I was hounding him for four or five laps. (So much so that the corner worker that was working the up hill stopped by after it was all over when I pulled over to adjust [soften to 12/8] my dampers after realizing I left them on track hard ... and said "I have to see what you have in this thing". I said "it's totally stock!" He pulled my rear trunk down to look at the badge and saw the blue square and said "Oh, it's a Polestar!". And nodded, knowingly. And then we talked a little about it. It felt great to get confirmation from someone that sees every level of performance car that there was something to it and special about this car, and it was in no way a poseur. ) Every time I made room for a faster person that I gave a point-by to, I'd quickly catch back up to him. But he wouldn't point me by. And he too was braking into the fastest turns.

Finally he pointed me by, and I was gone. Within a lap I was at the end of the main straight when he was only coming onto it off the hill. After that only a Caterham and a lightweight something old caught up with me and one or two others with massively higher power/weight ratio. I was sooo hooked up with the car; and the car was sooo hooked-up with the track. Weight transfer and car rotation was just perfect. The troublesome turns one and two were still not perfect. Still had a bit of howling from the tires towards the end. But it was a lot better ...a LOT. We could however really use more negative camber as was suggested, and/or harder sidewall tires, also suggested, both spot on.

One thing I have to bring attention to is the brakes. You wanna slowdown from 120mph into a right and are coming in a bit hot ... just push more. I literally thought I was out of brakes. But then discovered I had more range, used it, and it felt like I was running into a wall. The brakes really are incredible. I came into the paddock and the guy I was there with with told me my brakes were smoking; he tried to take a phone pic -lol. He said, "that's a good thing" ; good in the sense I was really making use of them. Unfortunately I think I developed a hard spot in one or more disc. I get a pulsing now under braking on the road! :(

Oh, and don't try to adjust your front dampers within an hour or so after coming off the track. They are literally burning hot. And don't go to full hard and try to turn it back; you might seize at full hard; I almost did. The glove the corner worker mentioned above gave me to try to save my fingers prevented me from being able to get torque on it to turn it. So I had to muscle thru the pain, and the burn with bare fingers. I have a nice blister on my thumb. The left side was a lot hotter than the right side.

I wish I didn't sit that 3rd of 4 rounds out. I would have had time to try 10/4 or 9/4 on the suspension. But likely, the big different 6 to 5 made, 5 to 4 might have been a very noticeable change and one too far. Still, hope someone tries it. I suspect I'll get out there again this year and may get to do it. (I only worry about going too far and having the tail wag out on me; 2 spins and you're done for the day! ;) )

Hope that's everything I wanted to touch on. I'll post more if I realize to forgot anything.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Cool write up, Shock settings are not going to help understeer. Shocks would have an effect on turn in and on transitions but not on steady state push. I think the bigger change as others have said was you sat back and had more clear mind on that session. Now my car is just an R-design but This was my setup for autox and when it's done laps on track. My car still has the heavy engine in the front of a front wheel bias awd system push. But it does not understeer to the point where your going to really notice it alot.
275/35 front tires
245/40 rear tires (shaved to be equal diameter)
IPD rear bar
Zero tow front
1/16 th per side tow out rear
41 psi front tires
54 psi rear tires
With the above setup the car runs the same lap times my SCCA T3 car did... which is mighty impressive. But it's a whole hell of a lot faster on the straights then the T3 car was.
The issue I have is that it only takes a min or less on track before it throws up the "stability control temporarily disabled" light on the dash which I understand is a algorithm based on suspected brake temps. The last time it happened it took me a solid 20 mins of driving around in the paddock off track for it to go away.
 
#19 ·
Sounds like you had a great time! But with all due respect, from someone who spends a lot of time with a racing simulator, the odds that moving the rears from 6 to 5 making a huge difference versus you pausing to think about the proper driving lines and braking points and being less nervous is highly unlikely :) If you went out again, you would have done even better because you were learning the track and the car, which takes time if you have to worry about taking care of yourself and the vehicle (i.e., you can't trash either one without dire consequences).

You probably know from your other track car that at some point you know your own car so well, you can focus 100% on the track, because the car and you are one. That's when it's really fun!
 
#21 ·
no doubt the mindset was a contributing factor. It wasn't accidental I did that. ;) But I stand by my statement because of how much better I was able to manage turns 1 & the decreasing radius 2. I was not using a different line on them. I wasn't doing anything different on them; if anything I was coming in hotter. Andnot only there but in every turn, the tires howled far less 15 to 20 minutes in.

You guys remind me of something i meant to mention. I can't get over how quickly I felt close to one with the car. I never did so with my AMG with its stock suspension. And the Mini JCW bounced so much. This car is so impressive.
 
#20 ·
I just love it when you can get that Zen with the track and the car and driver all talking with each other!! Probably what I shoot for most of the time instead of lap times anyway. It's amazing what a couple psi make in the tires isn't it. I'm glad you found a sweet spot. As far as the brakes just do a proper bed in procedure from owners manual and see if that puts back a nice smooth surface on the rotor.
 
#22 ·
Thanks for the write up m80! I really never had any intention of ever bringing my car to a track but after reading this the itch has started. What kind of condition were your tires in after the day?
 
#24 · (Edited)
I'm planning to track my Polestar. Thanks for the report and experience adjusting your car. ThunderHill will be my first track in CA.

Heh, I just finished a 2 day course at the Porsche Sport Driving School in Birmingham, AL. Lots of good education and tons of fun!





I drove Boxsters, Caymans, 911s, and Panameras on the track. I wore a Polestar polo shirt the two days. Some instructors were quite interested in my Polestar. Some were even wagon fanatics and surprised to hear the Polestar has launch control. :)
 
#26 ·
Thanks m80 for your impressions.

First of all, I am totally with Marc on this one! There is no way that one click makes such a huge difference. What you describe is the normal behaviour I experience on every trackday.
The first time I am out on a track, I ALWAYS drive like an idiot... Its not that I would do it on purpose, but I cant do it better.on the first time. It is/was like this every trackday I go/went. You always have to adapt to the track and the car. After every "pit Stop" there is an improvement.
I think what you experienced is exactly the same thing. But anyway, it is great that you had so much fun! If you are shure it came from the suspension and the tirepressure, so what! Main point is that it went great by the end of the day.

Concerning the vibrations in the wheel while braking: Did you always drive one or two cooldown laps? It looks like there are either very tiny deformation of the discs or/and brakingpad spots on your discs. I had already both on my tracktool. The first one would be a bigger problem than the second one.

I will track my car on the Nürburgring Nordschleife, also known as Green Hell, next Friday and will record a video (if I feel like my achievment is worth showing ;-) )
 
#27 ·
Awesome report, thanks M8o. While no doubt the driver is the biggest variable, I do not underestimate the difference one click can make with this suspension at performance envelope. 5 clicks to me on the rear was stark, a night and day difference. To discount that 20% of that change is due to one click, would be a mistake. 20% of a very large change is still significant.
 
#36 · (Edited)
The dampers are only working when there is motion, either rebound or compression. In the scenario above, under long steady state cornering like turn 1/2 at Limerock, once the car is set in the corner there is little to no movement in the suspension. The damper can't influence handling if it ins't in motion.
 
#37 · (Edited)
I don't think I reported anything different, and am in agreement with the last few posts.

I meant, if not said well enough to be clear, going from 6 to 5 clicks in the rear helped me and the car get really hooked up. But that I still had trouble on the big double turn that had reducing radius.

The former is the better turn in provided by the extra click, detailed incredibly well by Mrsideways. The latter is the steady state folks are referring to, and is the turn that still gave me problems. But as it's not a uniform radius throughout the long turn, so not totally 'steady state', i felt the car did take that better at 5 than 6 too. *important* Just not as proportionately better as all the other turns.

... this is how I meant what I wrote weeks prior to be read. :)
 
#40 ·
I'll be the first to admit I take perhaps excessive liberties in abbreviation and sentence structure when using my phone to post. I modified my post. i hope it is more comprehensible now. :)
 
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