Emergency Brake Failure

[OwlsInBog]

2004 V70R @ 43K - big bang from underneath and rear wheel locked up - terrible noises.

E-brake pads delaminated from shoes and jammed up completely tearing up the guts - even destroyed the aluminum hub assy and backing plate along with the brake cable.

No wear on the pads - only used a few times. Other side was not totally destroyed, but pads were also loose and flopping around inside the brake drum.

Now the good news - although it is clearly either inferior materials or a manufacturing flaw, Volvo refuses to warranty the parts or work. So much for safety related warranty items - cost - over $1500 to replace the parts including the hub assy. Required alignment is extra!

And to top it all off, Volvo VIP refused to tow the car less than 15 miles to my house - would only take me to a dealer 70 miles away (and I could not be gone from the area that long, so I had to call a local tow company and pay the $80 to get home).

After being a loyal Volvo customer for 40 years, I suspect that this will be my last Volvo - safety is no longer important to Volvo (this is the 3rd safety related problem on my car that Volvo has denied any responsibility for), they don'ty stand behind their products, and they are becoming unreliable. Though it is fun to drive, the cost is getting too high - and there are other fun cars.

I think my picks now are Toyota, BMW, and Audi - or whoever comes up with an all electric drive plug in hybrid.

[Body Massage]

wait, what?

I always use my emergency brake when parking. Are you not supposed to use it ever?

[Warpedcow]

Quote, originally posted by petew »

NEVER USE THE VOLVO EMERGENCY BRAKE !!!!!!!!!!

It's not an "emergency brake" it is a "parking brake". How the hell am I supposed to park my R with a manual tranny on a hill with the engine running otherwise?

[Needsdecaf]

Quote, originally posted by petew »

NEVER USE THE VOLVO EMERGENCY BRAKE !!!!!!!!!! this is so common in Volvos the dealers don't even blink before they blame you -- you start to describe what happened and they instantly know what it is -- they keep the parts in stock because it's such a high-profit repair. "Of course the emergency brake broke -- it's not ever to be used -- it's only for AN EMERGENCY !!!! I too had my "emergency brake" explode (and I never used it!) on my '98 VR (same design as the 855) -- but I fixed it myself -- removed the brakes entirely -- it's a much safer car without "emergency " brakes.

I only use mine when the message on the DIM reads "Brake Failure, stop safely". Isn't this what the e-brake is for? Stopping in an emergency?

When a founder of VCOA says he's not going to back to Volvo because of bad service, that's a bad thing.

My driveway is on about an 8% slope and I have to use the e-brake to park, and I don't like it one bit. Time to clean out the garage to get the car inside.

[chinaonnitrous1]

What the hell is this horse manure.

I live in San francisco practcially, theres no way in hell that I cannot use this Parking/E-brake.

[Needsdecaf]

Man, people need to drink some extra coffee today....

[rogersampson]

Is the car still under warranty? I can not imagine them having any grounds to deny the claim. Clearly this is not a wear related item. I would certainly file a written memo to VCNA, and after you get no repsonse from them, escalate.

Like you, I have been a long time Volvo owner, but they are driving me away from their products.

[flyfishing3]

http://videos.streetfire.net/v...8.htm

ebrake you say.

[chinaonnitrous1]

Quote, originally posted by flyfishing3 »

http://videos.streetfire.net/v...8.htm ebrake you say.

Bahahhahaha.

So how many will admit to something like this happening?

Not as bad...but a definate *oh sh*t* moment.

[dmvee70r]

Wait a minute, like others have said, what, we're not suppose to use the E/hand brake at all? Not even to park? I mean for GT, sure. Isn't it bad to leave the car in gear and let the gear hold the car up while parked?

[bobbrown13]

Quote, originally posted by petew »

-- but I fixed it myself -- removed the brakes entirely -- it's a much safer car without "emergency " brakes.

does PA have vehicle inspection?? In Texas you wouldnt pass without an e-brake.

[MancUnited1]

Quote, originally posted by bobbrown13 »

does PA have vehicle inspection?? In Texas you wouldnt pass without an e-brake.

PA does, not sure about how much effect the e-brake has on getting a passing grade. Especially if you "know a guy" with a garage/inspection station.

I seriously hate the hand brake on these cars. Several times I have tried to use it and I hate having to fully pull it up to get it engaged. Not too long ago I was getting fuel, pulled it up (but apparently not enough), and went to the pump. Thank god my girlfriend was in the car cause when I turned around my car was about two feet farther than it was. i yelled for her to pull it up more, she did, then looked at me like "wtf was that?!". It was one of the few times I didn't put it in gear before turning off the car.

Seriously though, shouldn't the hand brake just WORK on a car?

[lowenhart]

This has happened to me before, the entire wheel seized while I was driving screeching the car to a stop! Volvo tow came by and the dealer replaced the everything under warranty.

[Needsdecaf]

Quote, originally posted by MancUnited1 »

PA does, not sure about how much effect the e-brake has on getting a passing grade. Especially if you "know a guy" with a garage/inspection station. I seriously hate the hand brake on these cars. Several times I have tried to use it and I hate having to fully pull it up to get it engaged. Not too long ago I was getting fuel, pulled it up (but apparently not enough), and went to the pump. Thank god my girlfriend was in the car cause when I turned around my car was about two feet farther than it was. i yelled for her to pull it up more, she did, then looked at me like "wtf was that?!". It was one of the few times I didn't put it in gear before turning off the car. Seriously though, shouldn't the hand brake just WORK on a car?

If your brake isn't engaging until high in the pull, the cable or the brake itself needs to be adjusted.

[AthruC]

Does anyone think that this has anything to do with our e-brakes seizing every time we use them?

[JRL]

Quote, originally posted by Needsdecaf »

If your brake isn't engaging until high in the pull, the cable or the brake itself needs to be adjusted.

Agree and agree to the three posts avove this.
The Ebrake in a Volvo doesn't work very well even when adjusted and you MUST have it adjusted perfectly for it to work at all.
One of my 2000's locked up in my driveway a couple of months ago,
THE E BRAKE WASN'T EVEN ON!!!!
The damn thing rusted and broke inside (shoes) and out, (rusted cables) and froze.
Bottom line was I was able to break it free and get it to Keystone Volvo, a few hundred dollars later with EVERYTHING replaced I was on my way again
On every Gen 1 car that's seen any salt, this will happen, I thought they made them a bit better on the P2's... guess not

[AthruC]

Quote, originally posted by JRL »

One of my 2000's locked up in my driveway a couple of months ago, THE E BRAKE WASN'T EVEN ON!!!! The damn thing rusted and broke inside (shoes) and out, (rusted cables) and froze.

So is there any way to prevent this from happening? Jim, it sounds as if, had you used yours, you might have worn away some of the rust and prevented it from happening? Just a thought...

Also, is there one culprit to blame? The compound of the shoe maybe? I wouldn't think it's the rotor rusting, but I could be wrong. Do folks w/ aftermarket two-piece rotors have issues (besides the extra wear on the aluminum hats)?

[RearWheelPaul]

Quote, originally posted by Needsdecaf »

When a founder of VCOA says he's not going to back to Volvo because of bad service, that's a bad thing.

I suppose that it is like when a guy (me) who's founded several clubs and written books starts to talk about what he believes is a reliability problem affecting several models.

At any rate...

Delaminating emergency brake linings is common in many cars, especially those with manual transmissions, that are routinely driven in wet climates.

Two things can cause e-brake lining separation:

1. E-brakes overnight applied in a wet environment. Common use in cars with standard transmissions. The brake pads (which are based on metallic compounds) react with the disk's integrated drum and a corrosion bond is formed. Releasing the brakes forces the pads away from the drum. Over time, the adhesives that bond the e-brake pads to the shoes breaks down eventually leading to a catastrophic failure.

2. E-brakes used (though not necessarily applied) in a salty environment. Corrosion forms between the e-brake shoes and the linings. This eventually undermines the adhesive bond between the two components. to the point where a catastrophic failure occurs.

Note: The pins and springs that keep the e-brake shoes in place also corrode.

So what's the fix?

First, it's important to note that e-brake shoes have a service life. This means that e-brake shoes and associated hardware (pins and springs) must be periodically replaced -- even if they are only used to immobilize the car when it is parked.

A good rule of thumb is to replace the e-brake shoes and hardware whenever the rear pads or rotors are replaced -- whatever comes first. In other words, about every 2-4 years.

It's a good idea to regularly actuate the e-brake when the car is at rest. It confirms the system is functional and, in the case of mechanically actuated brakes, keeps the Bowden cables from seizing.

You're probably wondering how I know this -- it's from 1st hand experience and failure analysis many years ago...

I know Steve. He's an extremely knowledgeable Volvo owner and has an incredible amount of mechanical experience. So he's probably aware of what I have described above.

It would, therefore, be very helpful to know if his failure occurred with the car's original brake shoes or a (2nd or 3rd) replacement set. If it is the latter, there may be a "batch" problem to consider.

FWIW...

[JRL]

Blame the design, the materials and the salt.
I ALWAYS pull on the e brake a few times as I pull out in the morning.
Somestimes it's fine and I hear nothing, sometimes I get some pretty bad clunks and noises which usually go away after a few pulls (break off any rust build up)
and you pull while you're driving, not standing still! This cleans off any rust build up.
You should be able to drive at 50-80 mph, pull on the e brake (medium pull, don't jerk it at those speeds) and nothing shold happen except a mild slow down. If it makes ANY noise or clunk, you're in trouble.
NEVER use the e brake right after washing the car, not until the hubs and rotors are dry.
Try never to use an ebrake on the very cold and snowy days

[Needsdecaf]

Quote, originally posted by JRL »

Agree and agree to the three posts avove this. The Ebrake in a Volvo doesn't work very well even when adjusted and you MUST have it adjusted perfectly for it to work at all. One of my 2000's locked up in my driveway a couple of months ago, THE E BRAKE WASN'T EVEN ON!!!! The damn thing rusted and broke inside (shoes) and out, (rusted cables) and froze. Bottom line was I was able to break it free and get it to Keystone Volvo, a few hundred dollars later with EVERYTHING replaced I was on my way again On every Gen 1 car that's seen any salt, this will happen, I thought they made them a bit better on the P2's... guess not

Nope. Mine locks up after a day or two of sitting.

I am honestly thinking of having a whole new mechanism installed. At 76k miles, and regular user of the brake (I really do need it), I do not want this to happen to me.

Thoughts? Reading Paul's analysis leads me to believe that I should. I am on my third set of pads (second set was replaced with the brake squeal TNN, not due to wear) in the rear.

[Warpedcow]

Quote, originally posted by JRL »

Blame the design, the materials and the salt. I ALWAYS pull on the e brake a few times as I pull out in the morning. Somestimes it's fine and I hear nothing, sometimes I get some pretty bad clunks and noises which usually go away after a few pulls (break off any rust build up) and you pull while you're driving, not standing still! This cleans off any rust build up. You should be able to drive at 50-80 mph, pull on the e brake (medium pull, don't jerk it at those speeds) and nothing shold happen except a mild slow down. If it makes ANY noise or clunk, you're in trouble. NEVER use the e brake right after washing the car, not until the hubs and rotors are dry. Try never to use an ebrake on the very cold and snowy days

I never "use" my parking brake after a car wash or driving in heavy rain, but I do pull the brake on while driving right after a car wash to help rub water off the brake surfaces. Seems to work very well.

Also agree strongly with if you use it, use it every day! My family has had 5 P2 Volvos now and we ALL use the parking brakes religiously, nobody has ever had any problems with it. A few times we've had them "stick" if you forget you washed the car and you use the parking brake afterwards, but otherwise zero troubles.

And yes, I call it a parking brake because both of my S60s were manual, and I NEED to use it to park with the engine running.

[rcaddell]

I use the parking brake every time I park, and I put the car in reverse when parked. Force of habit developed over the years. Guess I'll have to stop with the parking brake on this car

[RearWheelPaul]

Quote, originally posted by rcaddell »

I use the parking brake every time I park, and I put the car in reverse when parked. Force of habit developed over the years. Guess I'll have to stop with the parking brake on this car

And the first time that you NEED an emergency brake, the Bowden cables will be rust-seized and won't work.

Just do periodic maintenance.

[asdf]

I live on a steep hill, am limited to street parking and have a stick. Thus, I put it in 2nd gear, use the parking brake and turn the wheels into the curb at night.

My parking brake sticks on if was left overnight in the rain, and the weight of the car isn't enough to break it free. I tried pulling it up once going about 5mph, and it immediately locked up a rear wheel.

Perhaps I'll schedule a trip to the dealer, I'm nervous now.

[Warpedcow]

Quote, originally posted by rcaddell »

I use the parking brake every time I park, and I put the car in reverse when parked. Force of habit developed over the years. Guess I'll have to stop with the parking brake on this car

Actually, since you've always used it, KEEP using it, just change out the parking brake parts whenever you need to change rear rotors, won't cost much additional in labor that way.

A parking brake cable is only going to rust in place if it never moves. Move it every day!

[Warpedcow]

Quote, originally posted by asdf »

I live on a steep hill, am limited to street parking and have a stick. Thus, I put it in 2nd gear, use the parking brake and turn the wheels into the curb at night. My parking brake sticks on if was left overnight in the rain, and the weight of the car isn't enough to break it free. I tried pulling it up once going about 5mph, and it immediately locked up a rear wheel. Perhaps I'll schedule a trip to the dealer, I'm nervous now.

Umm, why 2nd gear? R or 1 would be a better choice.... don't use the parking brake if you can avoid it when it's raining... I would also highly recommend "cleaning" the brake of water just before you park in the rain by "riding" the parking brake for about 30 yards or so just before you park.

[asdf]

I think my dad told me 2nd, I forget exactly why. It can be a dry day, I don't drive, then it rains and sits overnight. In the morning, it will stick. Cleaning the brakes is a good idea, though. I will do that from here on out.

[Shimon]

must be an American thing to park an auto by just using the Park setting on the gearbox only. The Emergency brake is what us Europeans call a handbrake - used everytime you park the car manual or auto. Just using the Park function of an auto to hold the weight of the car isnt good for the gearbox.

If a handbrake is unused for extensive periods of time then it isnt uncommon for the parts to seize. Should happen really fast but maybe using the handbrake whenever parking will stop things sticking.

in the UK, the use of the Park only position in an auto without using the handbrake is becoming more popular and it is a good trend!!!!!

Never heard of the handbrake being used in an Emergency to stop the car...usually just hard foot brake pressure is used!! I guess Americans see the emergency brake/handbrake as something you pull up as hard as you can if the footbrake fails....not so here in Europe.....seems different driving instructions!!!

I see from above also the latest volvos have extra electric vacuum pumps to suppliment the vaccum from the engine for the servo...how come that is necessary???

Is foot brake performance severely compromised if that pump fails??

regards

S

[Shimon]

...oops... I meant to say

"in the UK, the use of the Park only position in an auto without using the handbrake is becoming more popular and it is N-O-T a good trend!!!!!

[Shimon]

also...handbrake is to be used when the car is stationary as a manual lock on the rear wheels...in effect. Pulling up handbrake whilst the car is in motion enough times will strain the joint between the shoe material and the shoe body. It should be up to the task but it would be possible for it to free itself eventually. A jammed on handbrake will cause overheating with possible bearing damage as the bearing then overheats usually by the grease inside it heating up, providing inadaquate lubrication or boiling off. It would also be possible in theory that a jammed on handbrake could eventually encourage the shoe material to leave the surface of the shoe causing what you describe here. This is partularly true of the small handbrake shoes inside the brake disc which are not intended to stop the car at all, just hold it once it has come to a stop (ie unlike a car with rear drum brakes where the same shoes act via the footbrake but also lock in place via the handbrake)

Unless volvo knows of a common cause of the shoe material freeing itself ie a batch of poor parts or known supplier problem, then if they know of no such problem and investigations show there is no problem then such items wont be warrantable. It would be down to operator error or "wear and tear" of the brake cables ie degradation over time. 04 reg is now out of warranty. Now whilst failure, if a part defect, is indeed premature, you could claim goodwill from Volvo...but seeing volvo know of no problems and the vehicle is out of warranty is could just be unfortunate circumstances or bad luck....

does this seem to be a common problem on the R?? P2s in general?? Does it come from lack of handbrake use then when used, the shoes stick and arent freeing off properly??

[Shimon]

also not good in a manual car to use the gearbox to hold the weight of the car instead of using the handbrake....

[imageomega]

Quote, originally posted by OwlsInBog »

big bang from underneath and rear wheel locked up - terrible noises.

This EXACT same thing happened to me. I had a post about it a while back.

I think you got WAY ripped off. Mine was covered, but he invoice I received gave a total of parts and labor around $600. This included the entire hub assembly, cable, and pads(shoes?). Also misc. springs and such, as when the car got pulled on to the tow truck it ripped everything apart in there. The parts were sourced at a Volvo dealer in RI....

$1500 isn't even in the ballpark!!

[Warpedcow]

Quote, originally posted by Shimon »

also not good in a manual car to use the gearbox to hold the weight of the car instead of using the handbrake....

That makes no sense. There is no possible way that parking in gear is harder on anything than simply driving. The gearbox was designed to handle 1000+ ftlbs of torque (first gear WOT) I'm sure it can handle the maybe 50 ftlbs of torque caused by parking on a steep hill.

[Adam12]

I'm confused! I have a GT, and when parking, I have always shifted to neutral, pulled the hand brake, let off the foot brake till the hand brake holds the car, then I shift to Park. I was told when I was first driving it was better to let the car rest on brakes than on the tranny. Was I just misinformed? I have used the Hand Brake in my car several times a day everyday sice I bought it two years ago. Is it going to explode on me, (Or WORSE, explode while my wife is driving)? She would freak and probably never drive a Volvo again! And we can't have that happening! Should I really be worried?

Concerned,
Adam

[JRL]

Quote, originally posted by Adam12 »

I'm confused! I have a GT, and when parking, I have always shifted to neutral, pulled the hand brake, let off the foot brake till the hand brake holds the car, then I shift to Park. I was told when I was first driving it was better to let the car rest on brakes than on the tranny. Was I just misinformed? I have used the Hand Brake in my car several times a day everyday sice I bought it two years ago. Is it going to explode on me, (Or WORSE, explode while my wife is driving)? She would freak and probably never drive a Volvo again! And we can't have that happening! Should I really be worried? Concerned, Adam

You're in FL, FLAT roads, E brake is not necessary at all on an automatic, good or bad E brake