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Clutch Question

29K views 63 replies 17 participants last post by  xaero 
#1 ·
Hey guys,
I have an 04 s60R 6MT.
I've done some extensive searching and can't seem to find a direct answer, so I need a little help.

Right now my clutch is slipping like crazy, so it's clearly time for a new one. So instead of just getting a new stock clutch I thought i would put in the extra $$ and get something that could handle a little more horsepower that I would like to add to the car.

So I landed on the SPEC stage 3+ clutch sold at VIVA. The problem is, while I'm down there, I would also like to replace the slave cylinder, throw-out bearing and flywheel, and the SPEC 3+ only come with the clutch.

I'm wondering if a stock control cylinder (slave cylinder/TOB) (PN 31259446) will work with the SPEC 3+, AND if I can use an '94 850R single mass flywheel (PN 9454774) as well.

This is a lot of mixing and matching so let me know if it is possible.
Thanks you.

Elliott
 
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#52 ·
Re: (LBG)

Quote, originally posted by LBG »
Is it a big deal?
Also, do you know anybody else with this mod?

Although it's "not recommended" ,since more vibration to the drivetrain is never a good thing, it's not really a big deal since it's only at low revs. I have a feeling those springs are getting quite a workout though.....for comparison:
The us spec P2 R disk(stole your pic), euro spec has a solid hub:

tiny little springs....now check out the 850 R(left) disk...

... which was designed to work with a single mass fw.

There's quite a few with m66 and a single mass fw, but not many on p2 R's(afaik). As for the disks, heard of custom built spec, and rx7(I almost tried the evo disk, but splines were a little different).... haven't heard anyone use my recipe though(oe R disk w/ single mass), so we'll be the first 2 idiots to try it. lol


I actually want to try going solid hub next time, so spec is gonna be on top of my list(just the disk, not the pp). But knowing me, I'll most likely try to find a compatible disk from an old tractor and see if that might work. lol
 
#53 ·
Re: (LBG)

Quote, originally posted by LBG »


Actually I am still having some trouble getting the steering boot all the way on, it keeps slipping off.
Do you have any tips on how I can get it to stay?

i fought it for about 30 minutes in the dark with a flashlight and two small screwdrivers to pry it. Before you go at it use a dab of motor oil or something on your finger to lubricate the rubber so it will more or less slide on(with tons of persuasion).

Use the small screwdrivers to pry/pull it all while using your thumb(s?) to press down on that bearing so that when you get the lip of the boot over the bearing it slips right in


@Rushin odd they would put springs in the US spec.. my t5 didnt even have springs
 
#54 ·
Has anyone done this to a 2002 T5 (23 spline input shaft). My standard clutch has started slipping (19t, MTE, etc). I have looked into S60R clutch and 850 SMF or Billet SMF. Need to confirm stack height before putting it all in.

The UK S60R clutch has 6 springs in the disc. The phase 2 T5 discs are solid hubbed.

I learned something new earlier. All FWD flywheels fit all FWD cranks - be they 850, phase1 or phase2. All the T5 clutches have the same bolt pattern and should therefore fit all FWD Flywheels. The issue will be the height of any planned conversion. If the stack height is the same for phase 2 T5's and S60R's then I'm quids in.

Thanks, Huw

Modified by jardon at 4:46 PM 1-18-2010
 
#55 ·
Re: (jardon)

Yeah, I'm confused. I thought all eur. spec R disks were solid hub, guess not. So 02+ m56 has 1x23 spline input shaft also? (though it was 21)

If it is, you could essentially do the same conversion as above. Stack height should be the same.
Let me know what combo you're thinking about(fw/disk/pp), and I'll help you out with all the info you need.

http://********************/smile/emthup.gif
 
#57 ·
Re: (jardon)

Yeah, actually I went through this whole fiasco a while back...here's the thread:
http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=123615
the stack height of oem R pp+fw should be somewhere ~85 mm....that's pretty much the max height you could go with. The TOB bearing has about 15 mm of travel on the m66, so the stack height should be no less than 75mm or else you need to use a tob spacer(the linked thread has the TOB spacer drawing if you need it). I'm guessing the m56 should have the same stack heights, but not 100%.

As for conversion, so far so good...but like I mentioned above, there's some chatter from the disk, so a different disk might be better idea.
 
#58 ·
As impulse922 has fitted an R clutch successfully to his T5 the stack heights must be similar - I'm just being anal about getting it exactly the same. Did you buy your R disc seperatelt or as part of a kit and then bin the pressure plate? Have you seen any aftermarket sprung 8.4mm organic discs that would fit?
 
#59 ·
Re: (Impulse922)

Quote, originally posted by Impulse922 »


i fought it for about 30 minutes in the dark with a flashlight and two small screwdrivers to pry it. Before you go at it use a dab of motor oil or something on your finger to lubricate the rubber so it will more or less slide on(with tons of persuasion).

Use the small screwdrivers to pry/pull it all while using your thumb(s?) to press down on that bearing so that when you get the lip of the boot over the bearing it slips right in


@Rushin odd they would put springs in the US spec.. my t5 didnt even have springs
I had a similar issue and mine makes a squeaky noise when turning. I occasionally lube the bearing where it goes over the shaft. That works for a while.
 
#60 ·
Re: (Impulse922)

Quote, originally posted by Impulse922 »

it catches very very low down on the pedal, and it feels as if there is no bottom to the pedal
.

Have you managed to fix this problem?

I got exactly the same in my R with the SPEC Stage 2+ clutch and pressure plate, using OEM flywheel.
 
#61 ·
Just to bring this to a happy conclusion....

I fitted a CG Motorsport 5 puck cerametallic paddle clutch and a Kalmar Union billet lightened flywheel. We got a donor DMF for a pattern from an ME7 M56 box and Kalmar fabricated the flywheel. My own gearbox had a DMF (well worn) and a sprung hub friction disc - again well worn. The new friction disc is a custom made affair with an LUK sprung hub and the pressure plate is a modified LUK part - the manufacturer did explain what they did to them and the net result is longer pedal travel and greater clamping force.

The parts all fitted first time and the clutch took a few hundred miles to bed - slipping initially at light load then accepting progressively more torque. I did find that unlike my organic clutch it responded well to slippage - when cold it would slip at WOT in 4th but backing off and trying again it always held. The manufacturer described the disc as a "warm clutch" that has higher friction with heat - I guess a bit like racing brake pads.

Now that it's bedded I can't get slip no matter how hard I try - running more torque too. It's quiet and light in operation with the bite nearer the top of travel than my stock unit - I love how there is so much less "slop" when engaging drive now. This is my daily drive and I am always in traffic so my concern before fitting was that it would be harsh and juddery. However, this is perfectly driveable in town now that I have got used to the feel of it - not as forgiving as a stock clutch but NOT a monster and my wife can use it.

There is more gearbox chatter at idle and more transmission sound with the SMF but it's just not an issue for me - I have a solid mounted front subframe, poly'd upper+lower engine mounts and a solid offside engine mount so NVH was not top of my list. We used Redline Heavyweight Shockproof for the transmission as I have a plate diff now - this also helps to dampen any chatter at idle. The gearchange is unaffected by the completely out of spec oil in warmer weather but is very slightly notchier when cold - you have to be looking for it to notice. In theory the Shockproof is too slippery for quick synchro engagement as it contains 3% friction modifier to help protect LSD's but in practice it is perfect for this appliaction. We did run a Morris diff oil in the transmission but that made the diff bang at full lock and my gear change really stiff.

The clutch was just over £300 and the flywheel was cheaper than below as I was a guinea pig for that part.

Took a while to get there but in the end really pleased with the outcome.

http://www.clutch-specialists.co.uk/

http://kalmar-union.com/parts/volvo-s60_s80_xc70_v70-transmission/

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=44&pcid=8







 
#63 ·
Another note. I measured the T/O offset (internal slave, M66 AWD) in both compressed and extended positions. The numbers I come up with don't match what was posted earlier.

Bell housing to T/O (pushed back to the stop) 79.375mm
Bell housing to T/O extended 60.325mm
So, T/O travel is actually 3/4" or 19mm.

Total stack height cannot exceed 79/80mm, or pp fingers are being pushed in, which means less clamp on disc. I found this out as my stack height of billet SM & Spec Stage III+ is now somewhat worn and slips at peak torque - in part due to the stack height now at 82.55mm, which only increases with wear, since the fingers protrude further as disc gets thinner. DM stock clutches are self adjusting, so stack height can be greater.
 
#64 ·
Hello guys. I have a 2004 v70 d5 fwd with a 5 speed manual gearbox. It's time to change flywheel and clutch kit. I want to put a clutch from S60R and dmf flywheel from T5, because this combination can handle more power and is allready realized in real life for Euro 3 d5 engine. That guy who have this combination - S60r clutch kit and T5 dmf flywheel don't know, which flywheel he have. Which flywheel is compatible for S60R clutch kit - 2.3 T5 (03.2000-2007) luk 415 0178 10 or 2.4 T5 (2004-04.2010) Luk 415031110 ?
 
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