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    1. #1

      Geely Panda news

      5 star rating.

      English of press release isnt perfect but note the comment re being the only independent brand

      http://www.geely.com/Brands/in....html


    2. #2

      Re: Geely Panda news (Shimon)

      Quote, originally posted by Shimon »
      5 star rating.

      You left out that this was in the China-NCAP test (C-NCAP). The criticism has been regarding historical failures in the Euro NCAP test.

      Quote, originally posted by Shimon »
      English of press release isnt perfect but note the comment re being the only independent brand

      First off, I question the extent to which any large corporation operating in China is truly "independent" from the desires of the Chinese regime, but more to the point, Volvo's sale to Geely is being financed by the Chinese state. So, the fact that Geely is privately held, does not answer the question of how much control China's government will exercise over Volvo after the acquisition.

      What exactly do you think it means when Reuters writes "Beijing supports purchase of Volvo"? (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTOE5BU02120091231).


    3. #3

      Re: Geely Panda news (Munin)

      The "safest mini-car in China"? That's not saying a whole lot now is it. So in a crash rather than a quick death you'll die a slow, agonizing one, waiting for the paramedics to arrive.

    4. #4
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      Re: Geely Panda news (Shimon)

      With test results like that I guess Geely has no need for Volvo. That's a relief.

    5. #5
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      That's a barely functional website.

    6. #6
      Senior Member 850arrrsaylikepirate's Avatar
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      Re: Geely Panda news (Shimon)

      Quote, originally posted by Shimon »
      5 star rating.

      English of press release isnt perfect but note the comment re being the only independent brand

      http://www.geely.com/Brands/in....html


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    7. #7
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      Well now I've really seen it all. The top headline on Swedespeed is about a pathetic Geely product.

      Look, I really do feel sorry for those that derive their livelihood from the Volvo brand. As far as the Geely deal, some will choose to live in denial and think its just grand, call those that are appalled by the deal "racist" or "hate boy", etc.

      Trust me from my own experience: its better to be the first rat off the ship. Wake up and save yourselves.

      Its over.

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    8. #8
      rfkuehn,

      Have you worked for Geely before then?

      S


    9. #9
      I suspect the government supports the deal as firstly it will increase Geely production and jobs in China (Geely export growth once it builds suitable vehicles and Volvo local production for the Chinese market) and secondly, because the Geely-Volvo company and planned volumes, aspirations, ambitions will (goverment's idea) improve the image of Chinese brands. The idea is that if Geely does well, other brands will hang on their coat tails of a good reputation. (NB people think Germany = good cars. NB Opel is German and their quality is hardly stellar!!) In the nationlist way, China looks good so the goverment supports it.

      That why I see the goverment as supporting it. They want to see a Chinese company do well.

      Now, despite regime's actions (which before you say I'm a sympathiser, I dont actually agree with nor do I like the whole state control censorship etc) just think of this re the common practise of countries wanting to promote their industries. The recent auto crisis saw goverments supporting the car brands based in their country in a similar move.

      The goverment isnt directly funding it. The State banks are (I appreciate that isnt the same as the (as was before the bailout) Western independent banks tho.

      Western goverments can interfere anyway. Just look at Germany's govenmt interfered and pushed for the sale of Opel to Magna? France pushing Renault not to move Clio production to Turkey so nationalist pride supporting a car company isnt new.

      But, I hope (as does Geely!) that the Chinese government doesnt interfere with Geely or Volvo.

      People seem to want to forget the uniqueness of Geely in that they are the only non-state owned firm. Li Shufu was a rouge character is their eyes and was prevented a licence to build cars for some time.

      This independent desire of Li Shufu should at least bring some support from anti-chinese regime Americans. Whilst not classed a dissident, he's quite an "against the tide" chap - from what I read of articles about him in the Western press. At least that's worth commending.

      I was be extremely worried about Volvo if a state owned company were buying Volvo esp SAIC or BAIC etc given their history of buy, dismantle shutdown.

      I think it's important to realise Geely's distinction to the other brands. Maybe that is what Ford and Volvo execs also see......

      and yes, I'm an optimist that Geely-Volvo will be a great partnership and overall lead to good things for Volvo (expansion, volume etc and better funding for improving quality). Ford sadly lost ambition with or was distracted from Volvo from about 2004 onward hence the bit of "drifting" volvo has been doing.

      Some journalists speak of the struggle to get volvo to 1 million cars a year volume against the current circa 400k.

      Why? Audi did it! Took 10 years of model expansion and in 1999 Audi was nothing special but a large range of VWs. Its the sporty and upmarket image that generates their appeal now. Volvo doesnt have to fight the reputation for cheap unreliable cars (like Ford but just look at them now once they committed to desirable and higher quality products). With good management, why can't Volvo repeat that?

      (shame Audi's quality is bad but that doesnt seem to stop them annoying). VW presents an aura of "can do anything" at the moment in terms of new powertrains, cars, markets etc. That's a bit annoying to watch for someone who wants to see volvo go from strength to strength.

      Ambition and good management....that's what Volvo needs. Odell has been good so far. Lets hope some new blood moves things on even more.


    10. #10
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      No. Have you worked for Google?
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    11. #11

      Re: (Shimon)

      Quote, originally posted by Shimon »
      The goverment isnt directly funding it. The State banks are.

      I'm not sure I see the distinction. China, through its state owned banks, is funding the acquisition. Therefore the Chinese government will have considerable leverage in the Volvo-Geely deal. Nobody knows what they will do with this leverage, if anything, but I think it is naive to ignore the government's role, by emphasizing that Geely is privately held.

      Quote, originally posted by Shimon »
      Western goverments can interfere anyway. Just look at Germany's govenmt interfered and pushed for the sale of Opel to Magna? France pushing Renault not to move Clio production to Turkey so nationalist pride supporting a car company isnt new.

      Yes, but two wrongs don't make a right.

      Also, an important difference is that Germany and France are democracies. The governments' actions in these examples are transparent to the public. If the people of Germany and France feel that their respective government caused more harm than good by interfering in the car industry, they can vote them out in the next election cycle.

      Quote, originally posted by Shimon »
      People seem to want to forget the uniqueness of Geely in that they are the only non-state owned firm.

      Again, this to me provides little comfort, since the deal is being funded by the government.

      Quote, originally posted by Shimon »
      This independent desire of Li Shufu should at least bring some support from anti-chinese regime Americans. Whilst not classed a dissident, he's quite an "against the tide" chap - from what I read of articles about him in the Western press. At least that's worth commending.

      You don't become an industrial magnate in China without the support and cooperation of government officials. The "rogue" image you are assigning to Li is a bit hard to buy into when Geely's celebration of a new assembly line features "pudgy Communist Party VIPs" and saluting policemen (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aTMHHJ85sp1o&pos=12).


    12. #12
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      Re: (Munin)

      Chinese NCAP test. Yeah.....


    13. #13
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      it is widely regarded that the NHTSA crash tests are the most stringent government crash tests in the world, so when the get 5 stars on those I'll be impressed. this rating is like winning a gold medal in the special olympics.


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    14. #14

      Re: (rfkuehn)

      Lets get a few things straight with this allegedly planned operations (I only bought my latest Volvo in the hope that this allegations are a mere joke, if not, my latest V70 is my last Volvo as well, just for the depreciation that may come next). You can expect what kind of “expansion” may come with even just the announcement of this joke. Volvo is already producing in China, it will defiantly not get much more attention in China through geely. Hey, western companies are producing cars in Chine by the millions. Did you guys check how many Geelies were actually sold there?

      When Ford bought Volvo, it was a complete disaster. You may like an 850, but the S70 was as out of date compared to the most up to date German rivals, like Geely is now with 80’s Japanese technology. The S90 was a mere joke, and the S40 was designed by Mitsubishi, but was discontinued. Ford did its best to help to upgrade the brand to the level of the Germans, and if you have a chance to get a closer look on the price lists, you may notice that Volvo is now a match for Audi in most of the model range. Volvo is nothing like Saab, it introduced more improvements than the Germans, only the new things for 2009 could fill out a model line. XC60 introduced, S80/V70 moderately facelifted, C30/C70 heavily facelifted, new S60 coming. In 2010, Volvo came out with engines that Ford has not even introduced in its cars (new 2.0T with dual clutch powershift for V70 and 1.6T for S60). Volvo is upgrading like crazy with Fords latest tech.

      Now anybody wants to suggest, that a ridiculous Chinese company that was famous for presenting its coupe with a weird name with fake brake disks! in car shows, selling about half as many of this jokes as Volvo would actually HAVE money on its own, and that this company would be a better owner to Volvo than FoMoCo, that is the most ridiculous joke I ever heard.


    15. #15
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      Re: (da rookie)

      Quote, originally posted by da rookie »
      Now anybody wants to suggest, that a ridiculous Chinese company that was famous for presenting its coupe with a weird name with fake brake disks! in car shows, selling about half as many of this jokes as Volvo would actually HAVE money on its own, and that this company would be a better owner to Volvo than FoMoCo, that is the most ridiculous joke I ever heard.

      +1

      I don't get it either. There is some piece of the puzzle that is missing. Geely is a complete joke as a car company and for them to be able to push Volvo forward just doesn't compute. Something smells fishy.....

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    16. #16
      Geely officials have also mentioned their concern re the goverment's involvement in both their own and Volvo's activities but the government supports the deal and offered Geely approval/line of financing. Geely wasnt able to (allowed to?) borrow from Western banks but Goldman Sachs did invested 250million into the Hong Kong listed arm re Geely's expansion.

      Li Shufu is more of a novel character than you may currently think. Re party officials and policement at the EC718 launch, ever heard of lip service? Be overly anti-goverment and we know what happens. Li Shufu walking a tightrope to get what he wants for Geely?


    17. #17

      Re: (Shimon)

      Quote, originally posted by Shimon »
      Be overly anti-goverment and we know what happens. Li Shufu walking a tightrope to get what he wants for Geely?

      This is exactly the problem: He is constrained by the Chinese regime, and will be more so in a deal where China is providing the financing. As I said before, noone know how the Chinese government will use its leverage over Volvo. Some potential Volvo buyers are not concerned by this, some are. I fall in the latter category.