Reply With QuoteYou know, this car does have it's own forum and all.Just sayin' .
You know, this car does have it's own forum and all.Just sayin' .
it looks like a flattened mini-van
Quote, originally posted by Needsdecaf » You know, this car does have it's own forum and all. Just sayin' .
Some of us don't have the time or inclination to look at all of the forums, so thanks. More substantively, it looks like the cargo area is going to be significantly smaller than the V70.
Quote, originally posted by Sausca » Some of us don't have the time or inclination to look at all of the forums, so thanks. .
Sloping roofline=useless.
2007 XC90 Sport -- Electric Silver
2004 Infiniti G35x
Quote, originally posted by nat_tex » Sloping roofline=useless. Not really.
We currently have a V70, P2 generation. It used to be our "family car". It has since been replaced.
We're currently looking to downsize since we don't need another car with as much volume.
The lifestyle wagon is a perfect alternative to a sedan. About the same cargo floor space, but with the added flexibility of having a cargo bay for view-blocking cargo, if you ever need it. All at very little loss of dynamics or MPG vs. the sedan.
Mercedes R Class or Subaru Outback roofline?
2004 S60R 6MT - Passion Red/Nordkap (41K miles and open to offers)
2009 RAV4 Sport V6 - Classic Silver/Charcoal
I don't think this is a V70 replacement in so much as a V50 replacement.
The biggest problem people had with the V50 was the lack of interior room and cargo space.V30 XC30 C30
S60 V60 XC60 C60 (replaces C70)
S90 V90 XC90Or something to that effect
It appears to me to be closer to a 50 than a 70. Not good. Volvo needs a BFW. Why buy an expensive Subaru.
I think it will come again in the form of a V90
Quote, originally posted by Sausca » It appears to me to be closer to a 50 than a 70. Not good. Volvo needs a BFW. Why buy an expensive Subaru. But those BFW's didn't sell here!
The XC70 will still be sold....THAT sold here.
I sure hope that's not it.
I posted a computer rendering of a V60 about a year ago and THAT was stunning.
How could they scerew up something so badly with that pinched rear end
This thread is suffering from being U.S.-centric.The V70 is not gone.
The V70 is the number 1 seller in Volvo's second largest market, Sweden.
The V70 is the number 2 seller globally, outside of the U.S.The V60 is not a replacement for the V70 and was never intended to be. All that is happening is that the V70 is disappearing from the U.S. market. There are so few V50 and V70 wagons sold in the U.S., because of consumer preference, that Volvo will only offer the V60 here. This way, a single product is meant to capture wagon sales fractured over two products. Those who need a larger wagon need to consider the XC70 or look elsewhere.
Personally, for me, the V60 is the perfect size and I would have been happy with a V50 too, had it been available with AWD but without R-Design.
Quote, originally posted by Munin » This thread is suffering from being U.S.-centric. The V70 is not gone.
The V70 is the number 1 seller in Volvo's second largest market, Sweden.
The V70 is the number 2 seller globally, outside of the U.S.The V60 is not a replacement for the V70 and was never intended to be. All that is happening is that the V70 is disappearing from the U.S. market. There are so few V50 and V70 wagons sold in the U.S., because of consumer preference, that Volvo will only offer the V60 here. This way, a single product is meant to capture wagon sales fractured over two products. Those who need a larger wagon need to consider the XC70 or look elsewhere.
Personally, for me, the V60 is the perfect size and I would have been happy with a V50 too, had it been available with AWD but without R-Design.
Agreed with your logic 100%.
I posted more pics in the S60 / V60 forum. You know, where it should be?
I am not as wowed by the design as I thought I would be. I am let down by some of the detailing. It's the right size / car for me, though, that's for sure. But I think this is one of those cars that will have to look better in person than in print. At least I hope it will.
BTW, that post has a picture of the hatch open and, as predicted, it looks comparable to the A4 Avant.
Quote, originally posted by Munin »
The V70 is the number 1 seller in Volvo's second largest market, SwedenAnd that's pretty much it. Sweden sells 20,000+ V70s and then..."chaos". The next best-selling country is at 4,000 units! Yes, in Europe, too.
Quote » The V70 is the number 2 seller globally, outside of the U.S. That was in 2008. In 2009, it was the third best seller. And this year, it may slide even more.
2001 Volvo V70 T5 M SR, Classic Red/Graphite L, TME Stage II ECU, 3" Downpipe w/ Cat-back exhaust from MTE, Volvo Roadholding & Lowering Kit w/ Nivomats, 17" PEGASUS, Rear Spoiler, Dolby Surround Sound
Current company car: 2011 Volvo C70 T5, Electric Silver/ Black Sovereign Hide, Climate, Multimedia & Dynamic packages
Quote, originally posted by Needsdecaf »
I am not as wowed by the design as I thought I would be. I am let down by some of the detailing. It's the right size / car for me, though, that's for sure. But I think this is one of those cars that will have to look better in person than in print. At least I hope it will.This is also what is upsetting me. Everything with Volvo lately seems to be "I'll need to reserve judgement till I see it in person". This is getting old. Does anybody at Volvo that approves these designs ever get this feeling? Why can't Volvo design something that just makes me want to jump with excitement and do back flips? They are gambling too much on every single design appearance aspect of a car and fumbling.
06 XC90 V8
98 V70 T5M
Quote, originally posted by Munin » This thread is suffering from being U.S.-centric. The V70 is not gone.
The V70 is the number 1 seller in Volvo's second largest market, Sweden.
The V70 is the number 2 seller globally, outside of the U.S.The V60 is not a replacement for the V70 and was never intended to be. All that is happening is that the V70 is disappearing from the U.S. market. There are so few V50 and V70 wagons sold in the U.S., because of consumer preference, that Volvo will only offer the V60 here. This way, a single product is meant to capture wagon sales fractured over two products. Those who need a larger wagon need to consider the XC70 or look elsewhere.
Personally, for me, the V60 is the perfect size and I would have been happy with a V50 too, had it been available with AWD but without R-Design.
Yes, we need to take the U.S. bias out of here. The estate wagon is not dead, it is not on the downward trend as was suggested by one of the Volvo NA posters here. It is logical that Volvo will not offer the V70 in North America because no one is buying it. A few posters here, some who buy used V70s which does nothing for Volvo sales does not constitute a viable sales demographic.
But, station wagons make up a large and viable part of European and non US sales, and will always be offered elsewhere.
I wonder if the V60 will come to North America. I doubt it. Maybe Volvo will avoid the mistake of offering an estate wagon which will result in poor sales. I would not be surprised if it will not be offered at all in North America.
Modified by rovermark at 10:47 AM 3-30-2010
Quote, originally posted by GrecianVolvo » And that's pretty much it. Sweden sells 20,000+ V70s and then..."chaos". The next best-selling country is at 4,000 units! Yes, in Europe, too.
That was in 2008. In 2009, it was the third best seller. And this year, it may slide even more.
Take into context that auto sales are suffering a slump in Europe.
Major manufacturers have all come up with wagon replacements this year. Hardly a trend of declining sales.
Quote, originally posted by Needsdecaf » I posted more pics in the S60 / V60 forum. You know, where it should be? Ask your fellow moderators to merge the threads.
Quote, originally posted by GrecianVolvo » That was in 2008. In 2009, it was the third best seller. You're right - my apologies. I got the global sales numbers from Calhon's posting in the http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=132617. Because of how the columns ended up aligned in that posting, I read the 2009 value for XC60 but 2008 values for all other models. So, the V70 was #3 in global sales outside the U.S., after the XC60 and V50. But, it sold +50% better than any other model below it.
2009 Global Sales (Except U.S.)
XC60 52,405
V50 51,907
V70 44,020
S40 28,997
C30 28,142
XC90 21,997
S80 19,840
XC70 12,207
S60 8,236
C70 5,622
Total 273,373
Quote, originally posted by pattyweb » This is also what is upsetting me. Everything with Volvo lately seems to be "I'll need to reserve judgement till I see it in person". This is getting old. Does anybody at Volvo that approves these designs ever get this feeling? Why can't Volvo design something that just makes me want to jump with excitement and do back flips? They are gambling too much on every single design appearance aspect of a car and fumbling.
Sorry, but I don't see it that way. I loved the S80, XC60 and new S60 in pictures. The S80 and XC60 didn't disappoint. I'm sure the S60 won't either.
But, style is a personal thing.
Quote, originally posted by Needsdecaf »
Sorry, but I don't see it that way. I loved the S80, XC60 and new S60 in pictures. The S80 and XC60 didn't disappoint. I'm sure the S60 won't either.But, style is a personal thing.
Definitely. I agree that for the most part the new volvos look nice inside and out. But at the same time, they still have their let downs, and they're immediate ones, and I'm not the only one immediately noticing them and questioning why. It's like volvo has found a way too at the same time both please the brain but also make it INSTANTLY go "WTF?". Normally, it's nice to see something, like it, and only afterwards maybe find something one doesn't like about it. One thing is to immediately jump with excitement, another is to just like it and move on, and then there's volvo, again, I like it but WTF? And worse, that WTF is staring you in the face every single day you'd own that car.
I personally would like to see a slightly more conservative volvo play it "a little" safer.
06 XC90 V8
98 V70 T5M
Quote, originally posted by Needsdecaf » But, style is a personal thing. Exactly. I wonder if there is any wagon that even 50% would agree on as getting the design just right. Personally, I would nominate the Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon:
I wouldn't mind the previous generation of the non-U.S. Legacy wagon either:
Modified by Munin at 10:37 AM 3-30-2010
Needs tint, Pegs and an R-bumper
All kidding aside, looks good to me. Really liking the rear-quarter shot, the lines all flow together nicely. I just wish that it wasn't at the expense of the V70 leaving though
1998 V70 N/A--Silver/Charcoal, 162,000 miles. Dual projector retrofit
Pioneer AVH-P4000DVD, Boston Acoustics GT-50, Alpine SPS-600C, 10" Kicker CompVR
K&N panel filter, and some small, other random mods
Quote, originally posted by Munin » Exactly. I wonder if there is any wagon that even 50% would agree on as getting the design just right. Personally, I would nominate the Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon:
I wouldn't mind the previous generation of the non-U.S. Legacy wagon either:Agree 100%. Short of an M5 Touring, which doesn't look as good, but has performance to die for, a 159 Wagon would be my absolute first pick for a wagon today, period.
Gun slit windows, sloping rear. What kind of Volvo wagon is this? If I wanted a car like this I would go buy an A4 Avant.
Quote, originally posted by ktm_525 » Gun slit windows, sloping rear. What kind of Volvo wagon is this? If I wanted a car like this I would go buy an A4 Avant. Gee, maybe that's the point?
What a great thought. An XC 159. God I wish I had photoshop.
I was just reading the about the new CAFE standards, and a thought occurred to me. Is the XC70 classified as a car or a light truck? Only one way to find out:http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg...Volvo
Sure enough, listed under "SUV". I wonder if this is also a reason why VCNA is focusing on the XC70.
"Existing Standards
The CAFE fuel economy standards since the beginning of the program are listed in Table 1. Two sets of standards have been established: those for passenger cars and for light trucks. The latter category includes vehicles of gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) from 6,000 to 8,500 lbs, such as pickup trucks, minivans, or SUVs."i could not find a citation in hurry, but I know that only XC90 AWD exceeds the 6000 threshold, and thus XC70 is a car as far as CAFE and Federal Tax rules are concerned.
I did write almost 100% off my XC90 in 2004 in 1 year, thanks to GWB.
Quote, originally posted by gascos80 » "Existing Standards
The CAFE fuel economy standards since the beginning of the program are listed in Table 1. Two sets of standards have been established: those for passenger cars and for light trucks. The latter category includes vehicles of gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) from 6,000 to 8,500 lbs, such as pickup trucks, minivans, or SUVs."You didn't cite your source, but it is wrong. The light truck must have a GVWR of less than 8,500 lbs and a vehicle curb weight of less than 6,000 lbs. This apparently confused whoever wrote that.
It is the vehicle's features that defines whether it is a light truck, not its weight (assuming it's below the maximum limits):
Quote, originally posted by 40CFR86.082-2 »
Light-duty truck means any motor vehicle rated at 8,500 pounds GVWR
or less which as a vehicle curb weight of 6,000 pounds or less and which
has a basic vehicle frontal area of 45 square feet or less, which is:
(1) Designed primarily for purposes of transportation of property or
is a derivation of such a vehicle, or
(2) Designed primarily for transportation of persons and has a
capacity of more than 12 persons, or
(3) Available with special features enabling off-street or off-
highway operation and use.It is under definition (3) that the XC70 can be classified as a light truck. The same is true for the XC60.
Modified by Munin at 7:06 PM 4-3-2010
Quote, originally posted by Munin » You didn't cite your source, but it is wrong. The light truck must have a GVWR of less than 8,500 lbs and a vehicle curb weight of less than 6,000 lbs. This apparently confused whoever wrote that.
It is the vehicle's features that defines whether it is a light truck, not its weight (assuming it's below the maximum limits):
It is under definition (3) that the XC70 is classified as a light truck. The same is true for the XC60.
Munin,
The latest legislation by congress simplified the definition of a passenger car as any vehicle lighter than GVWR of 6000 Lbs.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/nhtsa....html
June 2006.
chapter 32901 (3)
which reads in relevant part(3) except as provided in section 32908 of this title, "automobile" means a 4-wheeled vehicle that is propelled by fuel, or by alternative fuel, manufactured primarily for use on public streets, roads, and highways (except a vehicle operated only on a rail line), and rated at--
(A) not more than 6,000 pounds gross vehicle weight; or
(B) more than 6,000, but less than 10,000, pounds gross vehicle weight, if the Secretary decides by regulation that--
(i) an average fuel economy standard under this chapter for the vehicle is feasible; and
(ii) an average fuel economy standard under this chapter for the vehicle will result in significant energy conservation or the vehicle is substantially used for the same purposes as a vehicle rated at not more than 6,000 pounds gross vehicle weight.
So, the cited source is correct. The definition, for the purposes of CAFE was changed several times since 70s.
The definitions for CAFE and EPA are different. CAFE standards are managed by NHTSA, not EPAhttp://www.nhtsa.gov/portal/si...046a0/
You see - bureaucracy...works in some mysterious ways...
Entertainment: Watching gascos posting incorrect information and then deleting it.
Quote, originally posted by Munin » Entertainment: Watching gascos posting incorrect information and then deleting it. Deleting what?
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