Subframe is Cracked!?!
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    1. #1

      Subframe is Cracked!?!

      Dropped the sonic of to Volvo of Calbasas for a once over. A few things needed addressed while still on CPO: turn signal, fuel door, suspension noises as well as some funny shifting (thinking valve body, right?...it's a GT).

      Dealer reports back yesterday that they'll be replacing the front lower control arm bushings, upper spring seats, radiator, an oil cooler line, etc.... CPO is priceless, right?

      Calls back this morning and indicates they found evidence of subframe impact and that the subframe is cracked. Recommends contacting my insurance company......no CPO offer at first glance. He'll be talking to the service manager about it this morning.

      Subframe R/R + parts is $1600 from them. F-!

      Any recommendations? Of course I'll go scrap before new parts, but is this a common problem? Something I really haven't heard or read much about.
      2006 Sonic/Nordkap : 19" O.Z. Superturismo GT

    2. #2
      Senior Member phuz's Avatar
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      If the car was not in an accident, how is this not covered under CPO warranty? I am pretty ignorant when it comes to body/frame stuff, but any chance the crack can be welded (if its small enough) ?
      Assuming CPO warranty, insurance both fail....check out www.car-part.com for a nationwide junkyard search and I can guarantee you will find one for a fraction of the cost. But my $.02 is that you should not have to pay for that.
      Matt
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    3. #3
      Member atacamaR's Avatar
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      i'd agree except OP mentions the dealer found 'evidence of subframe impact' i read that as it was bottomed out on something causing the crack and thus not covered under cpo and the suggestion to contact insurance co. looks like they are replacing a lot of other stuff under cpo so it doesn't seem like they aren't trying to take care of him.
      '05mt blk/atacama SR with a few mods
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    4. #4
      Banned JARMO's Avatar
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      subframe IS part of crumblezone .... so get this fixed.
      Get money from te ones that said the car didn't saw an accident.

    5. #5
      Member djkronik57's Avatar
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      Just a thought, there was a thread on here not too long ago regarding the rear bushings TNN for side hop and how they could crack the rear sub-frame. Guessing yours is the front, but just FYI.
      2004 S60R MT - Sapphicama, Pictures, 285HP/307FT-LBS@wheels, IPD Track Spec Sways, Autotech Stage 1 Tune, R Kelly CAI, Autometer Cobalt Boost Gauge, GROM USB/iPod Audio Interface, Hawk HPS pads on slotted Brakeperformance.com rotors, HID fogs, IPD Strut Bar Conversion, UR Front and Rear Lower Braces, Power Folding Mirror Kit, IPD HD Coils, 18x8 Axis XMX wheels, Volvotech CFE extender, CNT Downpipe, EST Touring Exhaust

    6. #6
      Member atacamaR's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by djkronik57 View Post
      Just a thought, there was a thread on here not too long ago regarding the rear bushings TNN for side hop and how they could crack the rear sub-frame. Guessing yours is the front, but just FYI.
      yeah, there is, guess i assumed it didn't crack where the bushing is pushed in but without more to go on it's a tough call. but for sure, get it replaced.
      '05mt blk/atacama SR with a few mods
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    7. #7
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      +1 on phuz, buy one off a salvaged car for 1/4th the price.
      2003 S60 T5M - bilstein sport/eibach, sways, exhaust, mini h1 projectors, and other minor touches

    8. #8
      Here are the pics from the dealer.......



      2006 Sonic/Nordkap : 19" O.Z. Superturismo GT

    9. #9
      Member jstro's Avatar
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      It does appear to haev bottomed out on something. I am a little surprised they can't just weld it
      totally stock.. honest

    10. #10
      Member Fitzy's Avatar
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      Subframe looks pretty mangled...still fixable tho. There is really no need to buy a brand new subframe, any junkyard one should do and be in a better condition that your current one.
      2006 Ti SR 6MT - In CMOD_R's driveway.

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    11. #11
      Senior Member phuz's Avatar
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      That crack looks fixable.
      Matt
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    12. #12
      I thought welding it seemed reasonable after I saw the pic, as well. What I can't figure out is how impact at the front of the subframe where the scratches are could induce such force into the control arm mount......
      2006 Sonic/Nordkap : 19" O.Z. Superturismo GT

    13. #13
      Junior Member bobbrown13's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by phuz View Post
      That crack looks fixable.
      I wouldnt weld it in it's curent state...
      Have to remove the bung and grid both pieces, otherwise you risk porosity. E70S material for that though. Once clean enough should be easy to weld. Funny the way it cracked it almost looks like the weld was iffy to begin with.
      2006 S60R GT Black Saphire/Gobi. 18" Ronal RT's, Bluepower front, Duraflex sides, rear sport kit. ipd Track Spec Sways, SS brake lines, brakeperformance.com D/S rotors, Bell FMIC, Evolve blue radiator hoses, Elovle AMS w/hood vent, Snabb Intake pipe, Viva HD CBV, Eurosport DP mated to Svenske custom 3" with Flowmaster muffler, Evolve/Autotech Stage 2, Defi Blue Boost and EGT gages. OEM Bluetooth, USA-spec ipod, Delphi XM-Xpress.

    14. #14
      Member kmg_S60R's Avatar
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      Agreed that it totally looks like a weld failure... I am no expert by any means but that weld looks very shotty like it wasn't hot enough when intially done to even melt it ito the other metal... a competent weld shop could fix that for probably less than $50.00.
      06 Ti Grey SR w/Sport Pkg, Manual, (IPD)>Stage II, AMS w/custom AEM Dry Flow, 3in DP, Track Sway Bars, HD Endlinks, Boost Gauge, Silicone Vac Lines, Upr Engine Mnt, HD Trans Mount. SNABB Intake & Short Shifter,IPD 3" Oval Exhaust, Phuz HD TCV, Viva HD CBV, Wg 7psi, Port Matched/Polished Intake Manifold, Victory Performance FMIC w/IMEC, Labonte Stg II H2O/Meth Injection. http://www.dragtimes.com/Volvo-S60-Timeslip-19306.html

    15. #15
      Member VolvokidS60R's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by martinbs View Post
      Here are the pics from the dealer.......



      pic one- eaaa no big deal

      Pic 2- WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! dude is that the contral arm bolt holes...? what is that i cant really tell but Phuzz i would not fix that id get a new one LOL!! CPO!!!!!!!!!
      that is a BIG TIME HIT!! in 6 years at volvo i have NEVER seen this WOW!!!
      No more R got a 1995 240sx converted to a Silvia in replacement... Can't say I miss the Volvo
      P.s no more am i Volvo tech... I now am a shop Forman at a high performance shop.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
      Yeah right, he's all happy you called...then a yellow birdie flys by and oh here's a cupcake, btw what were we talking about...

    16. #16
      Banned JARMO's Avatar
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      So it has been started .....
      cheap crappy eastern repairs!!!! be aware!!!!!

    17. #17
      anyone know of a weld shop North of LA?
      2006 Sonic/Nordkap : 19" O.Z. Superturismo GT

    18. #18
      Member VolvokidS60R's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by martinbs View Post
      anyone know of a weld shop North of LA?
      i rec a hot rod shop not a rice shop but a true Hot Rod shop find the oldest guy and you got your man hahaha
      No more R got a 1995 240sx converted to a Silvia in replacement... Can't say I miss the Volvo
      P.s no more am i Volvo tech... I now am a shop Forman at a high performance shop.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
      Yeah right, he's all happy you called...then a yellow birdie flys by and oh here's a cupcake, btw what were we talking about...

    19. #19
      Something must have hit that control arm, hard! And close to the pivot/bolts too, that's odd!
      I think I would find a used one as well...

    20. #20
      Moderator tmtalpey's Avatar
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      They cannot possibly be telling you this was not covered by CPO. The damage couldn't be more obvious. Are they saying you drove over a parking lot berm since buying the car? It amounts to that accusation, right?
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    21. #21
      Whoa! I think you would know if you hit something that hard! We're talikin' "Dukes of Hazard" Lol.
      '05 Ti-Kap GT SR; MTE tune; Bell FMIC; TME DP, exhaust, & springs; IPD CAI; IPD HD coils; IPD TCV; AEM H20/MeOH kit w/ flow gauge; Viva CBV & strut bar conversion; SNABB inlet pipe; TD Pro Race 1.2 35ET 18x8's; 235/40 GY Eagle F1 Asym 2; Adam's Rotors w/Hawk HPS pads; IPD camber kit; IPD Track-spec sways; Elevate hood grilles; CF Werks spoiler; Prosport boost gauge w/ vent pod; LED DRL's; PIAA fogs; EST LED bulbs. CaR photo

    22. #22
      2004 Sapphire/Nordkap S60R traded in for a 2006 British Racing Green - Mini Cooper S - John Cooper Works

    23. #23
      Member VolvokidS60R's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by garbergtsi View Post
      Something must have hit that control arm, hard! And close to the pivot/bolts too, that's odd!
      I think I would find a used one as well...
      I think that is 100% what happend, and HARD!!!!!!!!!!!
      No more R got a 1995 240sx converted to a Silvia in replacement... Can't say I miss the Volvo
      P.s no more am i Volvo tech... I now am a shop Forman at a high performance shop.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
      Yeah right, he's all happy you called...then a yellow birdie flys by and oh here's a cupcake, btw what were we talking about...

    24. #24
      Member inteller's Avatar
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      you should have evidence of damage on other parts of the car if that took such a hit. But since they are replacing the LCA i suspect your evidence is gone now.
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    25. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by tmtalpey View Post
      They cannot possibly be telling you this was not covered by CPO. The damage couldn't be more obvious. Are they saying you drove over a parking lot berm since buying the car? It amounts to that accusation, right?
      Why would it be covered by CPO? The damage is obvious, but is that damage covered by CPO? Does CPO cover damages incurred because of a collision?

      Seems to me the better choice would be to file a claim with the insurance company.

    26. #26
      Moderator tmtalpey's Avatar
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      CPO stands for Certified Pre-Owned and Volvo touts them as follows:

      3. Volvo Certified Comprehensive Inspection
      Vehicles are examined and road tested at more than 130 different points, and components are repaired or replaced as needed. We check the exterior and powertrain, and road test each vehicle.

      and

      8. Higher standards
      Every CPO vehicle is reconditioned to meet Volvo’s safety, performance and appearance standards according to our comprehensive 130+ point inspection. And, each vehicle is covered by a solid CPO warranty.

      point 129: cracked subframe? Check!
      2005 V50 T5 AWD 6MT w/Heico tune, Heico exhaust, Bell intercooler, IPD TCV, Viva CBV, Elevate rear swaybar, Snabb shift kit, etc.
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    27. #27
      So your saying he bought the vehicle with a cracked subframe and signs of the hit on the bottom of the subframe...I guess that's understandable.
      But if that is the case I think CPO wouldn't pay, the dealer would be internalling this ticket due to the tech who did the cpo inspection missed the damage during the inspection

    28. #28
      Bought the car used from a guy in North Carolina 6+ months ago....who knows what he hit before I bought it. Either it has been this way for longer than 6 months, and taken this long to propogate to this point; or, the tech took it off-roading to try and reproduce my turn signal stalk issue and is now trying to cover his a$$. lol...

      Hard to see in the pics, but there is about a 3/8" deep dent just inboard from the mounting boss. The dent is 1/4" at its deepest point and tapers back to the normal subframe surface across about a 4-6" area. To make that kind of impact this thing had to land on top of a big rock.

      My guess is that the hit happened a long time ago and just now has become apparent while changing the bushings, when the bolt that goes into/through that boss is in place, the boss is sandwiched by the bushing and you can't tell it is cracked so who knows how long it has been that way.

      Next call, VCNA.
      2006 Sonic/Nordkap : 19" O.Z. Superturismo GT

    29. #29
      Former Advertiser TEPPERS AUTO SALES's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by martinbs View Post

      Next call, VCNA.
      Why?
      The car is DAMAGED. Volvo has no responsibility to fix a damaged car for free
      VCNA has no responsibility and why should they, you will get the same answer if you call them

    30. #30
      Moderator tmtalpey's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by martinbs View Post
      Bought the car used from a guy in North Carolina 6+ months ago....who knows what he hit before I bought it.
      Oh. Well you didn't say that. I actually thought CPO was non-transferable. But in any case, once CPO'd, new damage is another matter.
      2005 V50 T5 AWD 6MT w/Heico tune, Heico exhaust, Bell intercooler, IPD TCV, Viva CBV, Elevate rear swaybar, Snabb shift kit, etc.
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      1956 PV444 very original, very rough

    31. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by tmtalpey View Post
      CPO stands for Certified Pre-Owned and Volvo touts them as follows:

      3. Volvo Certified Comprehensive Inspection
      Vehicles are examined and road tested at more than 130 different points, and components are repaired or replaced as needed. We check the exterior and powertrain, and road test each vehicle.

      and

      8. Higher standards
      Every CPO vehicle is reconditioned to meet Volvo’s safety, performance and appearance standards according to our comprehensive 130+ point inspection. And, each vehicle is covered by a solid CPO warranty.

      point 129: cracked subframe? Check!
      I am fully aware of what is required to CPO a vehicle. Why do you assume the damage was done prior to the car being CPO'd?

    32. #32
      Member Cjones16's Avatar
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      The "spacer" on the subframe looks like its just welded from the top (from what I see in the pic)

      Do you think its welded just to hold it there for assembly or structural?


      There's
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      3539 Recycle Road
      Rancho Cordova, CA 95742

      Toll Free
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    33. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cjones16 View Post
      The "spacer" on the subframe looks like its just welded from the top (from what I see in the pic)

      Do you think its welded just to hold it there for assembly or structural?


      There's
      Volvo & Saab Auto Dismantlers, Inc.
      3539 Recycle Road
      Rancho Cordova, CA 95742

      Toll Free
      800-700-VOLVO - 800-700-8658
      It is most definitely structural. It's an attachment point for a lower control arm.

    34. #34
      looks like the tech damaged during the removal of the controll arm, look at the mark on the mounting boss look like a pry bar and hammer because he could not get the control arm off.

    35. #35
      Banned JARMO's Avatar
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      A tech will see it ... it's the job of the service-manager to tell to owner.
      I had to tell before towards an owner it was normal (it was a DAF66) those sounds but sure I knew it wasn't (even after 20yrs!).
      if he can't ..... he's not able for the job.
      Last edited by JARMO; 10-02-2010 at 06:21 PM.

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