336mm rotor and caliper upgrade
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    1. #1

      336mm rotor and caliper upgrade

      So it was time to change rotors and pads so I thought why not do the upgrade to 336mm rotors, pads and calipers while I'm at it? Thanks George at Viva for cross referencing part numbers and sourcing the backing plates.

      Pretty straight forward swap out. Minor issue with seized rotor retaining bolts but everything else was easy.

      Couple of things I noticed doing the swap. Backing plate size for the 336mm rotors were really negligibly larger in size over the ones on the 316mm. If I knew they were so close I don't think I would have bothered to swap those and saved myself $125 The other thing I also noticed was I believe the calipers are exactly the same the only difference being the caliper carrier to accommodate the larger rotors. Knowing this I would have checked at the dealer if just buying the caliper carrier would suffice and saved the cost of the calipers too. I used remanufactured calipers as they were significantly cheaper than brand new. The above 2 items if excluded would have super simplified this job to basically a rotor and caliper carrier swap. Hopefully this helps the next guy/gal attempting this upgrade.

      Overall the job went well, took me about 4 hours taking my time including bleeding the brakes. Now going forward I'll have more pad choices and benefit of the larger rotors.

      Part numbers:
      8602857 brake caliper
      8602858 brake caliper
      36000253 caliper carriers (2x)
      8683649 protecting plate
      8683650 protecting plate
      30657301 rotors 336mm (2x)



      protecting plates old/new


      note size difference neglible


      new caliper


      old rotors/new rotors


      remove old protecting plate and rotor


      new protecting plate


      new rotor and caliper carrier


      back of rotor with new caliper carrier


      new caliper back on


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    3. #2
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      So you're confident that new calipers were not needed, only a new mounting bracket?

      I'm hoping that's all that's needed (+ maybe pads) to put 2013 S60 Rotors on my 2012 S60 RD.
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    4. #3
      whats the difference on the size of the stock ones?. More surface means more brake power but, also depends of the caliper size.
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    6. #4
      Quote Originally Posted by 12_Ice_white_S60 View Post
      So you're confident that new calipers were not needed, only a new mounting bracket?

      I'm hoping that's all that's needed (+ maybe pads) to put 2013 S60 Rotors on my 2012 S60 RD.
      I'm not 100% so check at the dealer, but when I had the calipers out they looked identical except for the caliper carrier extra distance between the mounting points.

    7. #5
      Quote Originally Posted by glenspeed View Post
      I'm not 100% so check at the dealer, but when I had the calipers out they looked identical except for the caliper carrier extra distance between the mounting points.
      20mm larger diameter rotors (336mm vs 316mm) and the pads would be larger too

    8. #6
      Member rfkuehn's Avatar
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      Couple questions:

      - if the calipers really are the same size, how does a larger pad fit? Could you (arguable) fit the smaller pad in the same caliper on the larger rotor? (not that I'd want to, just curious how it all goes together)

      - is it just me, or do Zimmerman rotors have a pastey, toothpaste-like color? Color difference is most obvious vs. Brembo... (?)

      http://www.ipdusa.com/prodtype.asp?C...gorycrumbs=945

    9. #7
      Member rfkuehn's Avatar
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      I've been surfing around, found a few hints that the calipers for 316mm and 336mm are indeed the same, only the caliper carrier is different. Haven't seen anyone come out and say the calipers for 316 & 336 are different. Does anyone know for sure?

      Does it make sense that two different size pads would fit under the same size caliper? The carriers are sized differently, but could the same caliper cover different pad sizes and fit to different carrier sizes?

    10. #8
      Quote Originally Posted by rfkuehn View Post
      Does it make sense that two different size pads would fit under the same size caliper? The carriers are sized differently, but could the same caliper cover different pad sizes and fit to different carrier sizes?
      Yes, it's quite common actually. GM uses the same caliper on a bunch of different models with different caliper brackets that allow them to accommodate different sized pads and rotors. Ford used to do similar parts swaps and I imagine they still do. You'll notice that on a floating caliper like this the pad actually sits in the caliper bracket and not the caliper so it's the bracket that generally determines pad shape and size.

    11. #9
      Member rfkuehn's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mike_K View Post
      Yes, it's quite common actually. GM uses the same caliper on a bunch of different models with different caliper brackets that allow them to accommodate different sized pads and rotors. Ford used to do similar parts swaps and I imagine they still do. You'll notice that on a floating caliper like this the pad actually sits in the caliper bracket and not the caliper so it's the bracket that generally determines pad shape and size.
      Thanks for the reply. OK how do I ask these follow-ups in layman's terms... is the "outside" of the caliper bracket likely the same (the part that "inserts" into the actual caliper in two places), and is only different "inside" - the hooks where the pads are hung, plus radius based on rotor size? And would both sizes of brake pads (shims?) contact the caliper at the same point, despite the different pad sizes?

      And my other simplistic question - if upgrading from 316mm to 336mm is just a case of new caliper carriers/brackets and dust shields, why don't more people do it who got stuck with 316's on their XC90? Those parts are about $250 from Tasca. Feel like I might be missing something obvious as to why this won't work...
      Last edited by rfkuehn; 11-25-2012 at 02:31 PM.

    12. #10
      Quote Originally Posted by rfkuehn View Post
      Thanks for the reply. OK how do I ask these follow-ups in layman's terms... is the "outside" of the caliper bracket likely the same (the part that "inserts" into the actual caliper in two places), and is only different "inside" - the hooks where the pads are hung, plus radius based on rotor size? And would both sizes of brake pads (shims?) contact the caliper at the same point, despite the different pad sizes?
      Yes. Essentially the caliper bracket is just being stretched. The caliper is held out further than before however the larger pad ensures that the piston is still properly positioned.

      And my other simplistic question - if upgrading from 316mm to 336mm is just a case of new caliper carriers/brackets and dust shields, why don't more people do it who got stuck with 316's on their XC90? Those parts are about $250 from Tasca. Feel like I might be missing something obvious as to why this won't work...
      XC90 owners generally aren't enthusiasts which is where there seems to be only 10 or so people active on this forum despite the hundreds of thousands of XC90s out there. So they're not exactly looking for upgrades. That said, even those that might be aware of the upgrade might already consider their stock brakes sufficient, might not want to assemble their own "kit" for fear that a mechanic wouldn't install it, want to leave their car stock, etc.

      Here's a similar kit I sell for GM cars. This kit would fit literally millions of cars on the road today and is even cheaper than the Volvo upgrade yet I don't sell many of them. In ten years I've probably sold a bit over 1000 kits and they fit literally millions, if not tens of millions of cars.

      http://www.wbodystore.com/brakes/155...brake-kit.html

    13. #11
      I'm asking a part guy who hangs around a local Volvo forum, will report back about calipers.

    14. #12
      Member rfkuehn's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by mojojojo View Post
      I'm asking a part guy who hangs around a local Volvo forum, will report back about calipers.
      Great, thanks. Tried Tasca, but they don't know the answer. You'd think someone could just open a couple boxes & compare? Oh well, will probably order from them regardless...

    15. #13
      He says different part numbers and 'completely different calipers'.

    16. #14
      Member rfkuehn's Avatar
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      mojojojo: well, that kind of ruins my day...

      glenspeed: could you clarify a bit between

      "the calipers are exactly the same the only difference being the caliper carrier to accommodate the larger rotors"

      and

      "identical except for the caliper carrier extra distance between the mounting points"

      What are the mounting points that you are referring to? Between the hub and caliper attachments? Or mounting points on the caliper (which would imply they're not the same size after all).

      Also - does your 1st photo include the caliper carrier (perhaps on the bottom caliper)? Something is not quite the same between the caliper assembly in the 1st photo (looks to have pad "hangers" for only one side of the rotor; due to reman? not for XC90 use?), and the caliper in 8-9 (which shows the bracket down to the hub, with hangers for pads on boths sides of rotor).

      Could it be that the calipers are the same, but the only difference (besides the carrier) is whether you can see the "cooling fins" on the rotor? (small rotor/carrier means the caliper obscures the fins?)

      Sorry about all the questions, just trying to visualize all this goes together.

      Re: part #'s, looking at Tasca, there are different part #'s for two sizes of caliper carriers. And also two #'s calipers - but those part #'s include the carriers. So, could possibly be the same caliper w/ a different caliper carrier (?). Of course, you can't find just the caliper itself minus the carrier, which might answer all of this...
      Last edited by rfkuehn; 11-30-2012 at 09:40 AM.

    17. #15
      Quote Originally Posted by rfkuehn View Post
      mojojojo: well, that kind of ruins my day...

      glenspeed: could you clarify a bit between

      "the calipers are exactly the same the only difference being the caliper carrier to accommodate the larger rotors"

      and

      "identical except for the caliper carrier extra distance between the mounting points"

      What are the mounting points that you are referring to? Between the hub and caliper attachments? Or mounting points on the caliper (which would imply they're not the same size after all).

      Also - does your 1st photo include the caliper carrier (perhaps on the bottom caliper)? Something is not quite the same between the caliper assembly in the 1st photo (looks to have pad "hangers" for only one side of the rotor; due to reman? not for XC90 use?), and the caliper in 8-9 (which shows the bracket down to the hub, with hangers for pads on boths sides of rotor).

      Could it be that the calipers are the same, but the only difference (besides the carrier) is whether you can see the "cooling fins" on the rotor? (small rotor/carrier means the caliper obscures the fins?)

      Sorry about all the questions, just trying to visualize all this goes together.

      Re: part #'s, looking at Tasca, there are different part #'s for two sizes of caliper carriers. And also two #'s calipers - but those part #'s include the carriers. So, could possibly be the same caliper w/ a different caliper carrier (?). Of course, you can't find just the caliper itself minus the carrier, which might answer all of this...
      Truly I think you're overcomplicating things here. The part numbers being different can mean almost anything... Volvo (like many other manufacturers) might consider the caliper/ bracket as one assembly and thus it would have a different part than vehicles that came with the smaller brakes because the larger caliper bracket is incorporated into the caliper assembly. Otherwise they would have no internal way of discerning between different brake setups despite identical calipers. Likewise it all depends on what was requested. Was the part number for an assembled caliper requested? A bare caliper with no bracket? A load caliper? All would include the same physical caliper but would have different part numbers.

      The only thing different if I pull up pictures of the caliper bracket is that the caliper bracket is held out further from the center of the hub. The calipers are identical regardless of brake size for these years.

    18. #16
      Member rfkuehn's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mike_K View Post
      Truly I think you're overcomplicating things here.

      The only thing different if I pull up pictures of the caliper bracket is that the caliper bracket is held out further from the center of the hub. The calipers are identical regardless of brake size for these years.
      Believe me, I really liked your prior post about the kits & interchangable caliper carriers - very encouraging. But then came the new "completely different calipers" comment and I was re-thinking.

      OK here's a new wrinkle - something called a "cast number" (not the same as a part number). My 316's have 30636355, whereas I did find a reference to 336's as 30667307. These #'s are branded onto the actual caliper, not the carrier.

      Still, I'm definitly leaning towards just rolling the dice and ordering up the 336 parts from Tasca in the next week or so. Already have fluid & a few fresh bits coming from ipd.

    19. #17
      Quote Originally Posted by rfkuehn View Post
      Believe me, I really liked your prior post about the kits & interchangable caliper carriers - very encouraging. But then came the new "completely different calipers" comment and I was re-thinking.

      OK here's a new wrinkle - something called a "cast number" (not the same as a part number). My 316's have 30636355, whereas I did find a reference to 336's as 30667307. These #'s are branded onto the actual caliper, not the carrier.

      Still, I'm definitly leaning towards just rolling the dice and ordering up the 336 parts from Tasca in the next week or so. Already have fluid & a few fresh bits coming from ipd.
      The only reason I'm saying you're over-complicating it is because there are countless explanations for different part numbers and you have someone who's actually done the swap in this post explaining the differences in the parts. You're getting hung up on the details. As far as casting numbers, it depends on if those are part numbers or build numbers. If they're build numbers they might denote the batch of calipers they were manufactured with. Likewise they can have different part numbers for different material pistons (phenolic versus steel, etc) or other minor differences.

      If you're REALLY worried then what I would do is go into your local parts store and ask to see a loaded caliper off of your car and a loaded caliper off of whatever year XC90 the bigger brakes come off of. Compare them visually but I'm confident you'll find that the only difference between the two is the location of the hub mounts.

    20. #18
      reading the comments about the calipers I would say they certainly look identical for the 336mm and 316mm disks. If I were to do this again, I would probably just order the new caliper carriers and 336mm disks, bolt on the new carriers and see if the old caliper fits. Worse case it doesn't and you have to order the new calipers, but I'm guessing they would and you'd save quite a bit. The install would also be much faster as you wouldn't have to remove the caliper and bleed the brakes.

    21. #19
      Member rfkuehn's Avatar
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      OK I've completed the change from 316 to 336. The 316 calipers DID NOT fit. I was not with the tech when the first attempt failed, so this is an educated guess...

      He said all the connect points for the caliper & carriers lined up, so it was looking good at first. But when he loaded up the 336 pads into the 316 caliper, that assembly would not fit over the rotor - the gap was too narrow. So, the 336 rotors are thicker and/or the 336 pads are thicker. The combination did not allow enough clearance over the rotor. The 336 caliper must be wider internally to accomodate a wider rotor and/or pad.

      It would have been interesting to try the 316 pads in 316 calipers over the 336 rotors, but that would partially defeat what I was trying to do. I'll repost the part #'s from the original post, they are the same #'s I ultimately got from Tasca and have on the car now. I didn't realize the retainer springs didn't come with the new calipers, so I'll add that number. I've reused the old 316 springs but will probably swap them at the next tire rotation. I'll add the pad # too.

      8602857 brake caliper
      8602858 brake caliper
      36000253 caliper carriers (2x)
      8683649 protecting plate
      8683650 protecting plate
      30657301 rotors 336mm (2x)

      + 30665010 retainer spring (2X)
      + 31262705 pads
      Last edited by rfkuehn; 01-12-2013 at 02:22 PM.

    22. #20
      Junior Member sinisin63's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by glenspeed View Post
      Pretty straight forward swap out. Minor issue with seized rotor retaining bolts but everything else was easy.
      What was the issue you had with the retaining bolt?

      I recently replaced all four rotors with VIVA slotted and drilled rotors and I had one of the retaining bolt head snap off. I tried using an easy out but it didn't work. I ended up drilling through it but I didn't have a tap available so I just installed the rotor without the retaining bolt. I will have to take care of that later on though.
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    23. #21
      Quote Originally Posted by sinisin63 View Post
      What was the issue you had with the retaining bolt?

      I recently replaced all four rotors with VIVA slotted and drilled rotors and I had one of the retaining bolt head snap off. I tried using an easy out but it didn't work. I ended up drilling through it but I didn't have a tap available so I just installed the rotor without the retaining bolt. I will have to take care of that later on though.
      I had the same issue!

    24. #22
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      Reviving this old (and very useful) thread - does anyone know if I can upgrade to 336mm set-up with 16" wheels? I've upgraded my summer wheels to 17mm but I threw the winter tires onto the 16" wheels so I've still got a limitation of sorts.

    25. #23
      Junior Member V50R's Avatar
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      I have not ever seen a V8 which comes with 336mm FR Brakes ever run smaller than a 17" Wheel. Even on a 17" wheel the caliper sits within 5-6mm from the wheel inner surface. I would think that if you plan to run 16s you are better off with the 316mm brakes.
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    26. #24
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      Thank you!
      [QUOTE=V50R;5117537]I have not ever seen a V8 which comes with 336mm FR Brakes ever run smaller than a 17" Wheel. Even on a 17" wheel the caliper sits within 5

    27. #25
      Junior Member V50R's Avatar
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      FR i meant front brakes. So all XC90s run 336F and 305R i think and the smallest ive ever seen is 17".

      I have seen some 16" on 2.5Ts and those had the 316mm set up.
      2006 V50 T5 AWD AW55, 320mm FR Brake upgrade, Elevate Intake, OBX Exhaust.
      2010 XC90 V8 Executive Latest Addition.
      2008 XC90 V8 Executive Edition, w/Muffler Delete.
      2005 XC90 V8 Black, VB replaced, S60R Brake Swaped
      2013 Jetta Sportwagen TDI 6spd. Malone S2 tuned 200hp/350tq.

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