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    1. #1
      Junior Member Ride S40T's Avatar
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      Car stays running when key removed

      With the push start.

      Parked in a niosy parking lot, got out, closed door, walked about 20 feet, turned back to look and lock the doors...no chirp. Got closer, pushed harder, said bad words, pushed harder again. Got closer...uh well, the car was still running.

      Guess I grazed the start/stop and didn't notice it was still running due to heavy construction noise...yes, I should have noticed RPMs but the "chime" didn't chime (nanny me) and it's not designed to in that circumstance. Had my hands full so attention was on not dropping stuff, inattention on my part, I know.

      Anyway, don't think this is a good design. I may have been locking the doors but had I not listened for the chirp or looked for the lights, the car may have sat idling the whole time I was away. Not good.

      The car should quit if I take the key out and walk away, period. What could have been had I not locked it at all? Geez. Guess technology should protect us from ourselves because I'm sure we all have these types of moments, hence, CitySafe to name one.

      Anyone else experience this? No keyless drive or PCC on the car.
      Last edited by Ride S40T; 05-19-2013 at 10:47 PM.
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    2. #2
      Junior Member mr_raider's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ride S40T View Post
      With the push start.

      Parked in a niosy parking lot, got out, closed door, walked about 20 feet, turned back to look and lock the doors...no chirp. Got closer, pushed harder, said bad words, pushed harder again. Got closer...uh well, the car was still running.

      Guess I grazed the start/stop and didn't notice it was still running due to heavy construction noise...yes, I should have noticed RPMs but the "chime" didn't chime (nanny me) and it's not designed to in that circumstance. Had my hands full so attention was on not dropping stuff, inattention on my part, I know.

      Anyway, don't think this is a good design. I may have been locking the doors but had I not listened for the chirp or looked for the lights, the car may have sat idling the whole time I was away. Not good.

      The car should quit if I take the key out and walk away, period. What could have been had I not locked it at all? Geez. Guess technology should protect us from ourselves because I'm sure we all have these types of moments, hence, CitySafe to name one.

      Anyone else experience this? No keyless drive or PCC on the car.
      There are plenty of times when you may want leave the engine on and leave the car running, such as when warming up the car in winter, when checking under the hood, etc...
      2012 Ice White S60 T6 AWD
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    3. #3
      Difficult. All systems have their pros and cons. Comparing the S60's basic setup with for instance the S40 it is weird that it's basically a keyless start setup but it needs the fob entered in the slot. A double action is needed whilst the S40 only needs a turn of the fob to take it out.
      With keyless start only you are left with a fob in your hands after starting the car. First logical thing to do with it is to put it in the console. After getting out of the car the key is still in the console. Keyless entry and start works OK but you also need to check you have the key with you. This because the car will start and run when the key is near but when you leave the key at home while taking the car for a spin make sure not to stop the car else you might have to take a long walk home.

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by mr_raider View Post
      There are plenty of times when you may want leave the engine on and leave the car running, such as when warming up the car in winter, when checking under the hood, etc...
      I totally agree...
      Furthermore, with the electronic keys nowadays (PCC or non-PCC) if by some glitch the car doesn't detect the key anymore while driving, you don't want to have the car stop then and there.
      This is why for instance, once you turned the car on with a PCC, even if you take the key away, the car engine will not stop unless you press the START/STOP button.

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
      ... This because the car will start and run when the key is near but when you leave the key at home while taking the car for a spin make sure not to stop the car else you might have to take a long walk home.
      PCC won't start the car unless it detects the key inside the cabin

    6. #6
      Quote Originally Posted by stormlv View Post
      PCC won't start the car unless it detects the key inside the cabin
      Yes but once running it keeps running until you push the stop button. If you leave the fob outside the car you can drive the car but once stopped there is nowhere to go.

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
      Yes but once running it keeps running until you push the stop button. If you leave the fob outside the car you can drive the car but once stopped there is nowhere to go.
      By design...
      As I said earlier - imagine that, while driving, your key slips in your pocket between your phone and something else and the system can't detect the key anymore. Would you want to have the car stop then and there?

    8. #8
      Quote Originally Posted by stormlv View Post
      By design...
      As I said earlier - imagine that, while driving, your key slips in your pocket between your phone and something else and the system can't detect the key anymore. Would you want to have the car stop then and there?
      Of course not. But I guess I didn't explain well enough. TS had a problem with the key system which can be seen as a flaw but which is hard to do different. Each setup comes with downsides. As an example, and it happened to me once, I mentioned that you can start the car and leave the key at home. Maybe in a blurry moment you start the car and need to get something outside the car and for whatever reason you leave they key outside the car. From then on you can drive it until stopped and that's when the trouble starts. Is it a flaw? I don't think so. Like you say it could be dangerous when you drive off in heavy traffic and after a couple of seconds the car stops because it can't detect the fob. It is a result of the double action now needed instead of the single action with the old key system. The key systems are well thought out but hard to protect against "stupidity".

      Had a fob with a dead battery. Brought the car in for service and took the spare fob with me. After picking up the car with the battery replaced I couldn't lock the car with the keyless entry button. At first I didn't understand but it was because the spare fob was still in my jacket inside the car.

      The dead battery itself can also be seen as a flaw when carrying the fob in your pocket with other items constantly pushing against the fob buttons.

    9. #9
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      I understand what you're saying.
      Personally, I love the convenience that the PCC has given me, and wouldn't go back to the "old" system if I had the chance.

      One thing to add: My S60 drives my wife crazy when the engine is on and I need to get out of the car with the PCC in the pocket - since it chimes like crazy...

    10. #10
      Junior Member volvocu's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by stormlv View Post
      I understand what you're saying.
      Personally, I love the convenience that the PCC has given me, and wouldn't go back to the "old" system if I had the chance.

      One thing to add: My S60 drives my wife crazy when the engine is on and I need to get out of the car with the PCC in the pocket - since it chimes like crazy...
      I think the solution is very simple, let the car chime twice, suggesting that you have opened the driver's door while the engine is still running.

    11. #11
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      There's only so much stupidity you can protect people from. I think the system is fine and very convenient.

      The new system is still better than a traditional key.

      Nothing will be foolproof as long as we fools keep driving cars.
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    12. #12
      Member matt1122's Avatar
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      I thought there was a warning on newer model years when the key leaves the vehicle?
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    13. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by matt1122 View Post
      I thought there was a warning on newer model years when the key leaves the vehicle?
      There's definitely a warning. I heard it a bunch of times when I first got the car and was getting used to not having a real key.
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    14. #14
      The new Lincoln MKZ honks briefly as if to say "hey, stupid" if the key leaves the car with the engine on. That's a good design.

      Ask me how I know it has this feature.

      -Signed,
      Stupid
      Last edited by vroomr; 05-20-2013 at 11:40 AM.

    15. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by filterq View Post
      There's definitely a warning. I heard it a bunch of times when I first got the car and was getting used to not having a real key.
      I believe I tested it with a 2013 C30 loaner I had in our office parking garage and that "weewooweewoo" siren that goes off if you don't close the tailgate properly on the XC started sounding. Either that or it started beeping.
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    16. #16
      Junior Member rlvdesign's Avatar
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      Also, if you are in the car and you do not have the fob with you, there will be a message on the dashboard that the key is out of range.
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    17. #17
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      My car never chirps when I lock it, even though I have it set in Sensus to chirp. Same with the safe home lighting stuff. Forces me to lock the car twice and approach the car and get home "dangerously".
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    18. #18
      Member matt1122's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by geokilla View Post
      My car never chirps when I lock it, even though I have it set in Sensus to chirp. Same with the safe home lighting stuff.
      Have you tried turning it off and turning it on again? (The setting, not the car.) That actually works for some of this stuff when the car arrives from factory with some things not working. Solved several similar problems on my mom's XC60, including no chirp and mirrors not folding/unfolding when they should.
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    19. #19
      Probably audible alarm activation disabled. Our XC60 doesn't make sound either. Also no activation option for it in Sensus. Only visible.

    20. #20
      Junior Member Ride S40T's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by mr_raider View Post
      There are plenty of times when you may want leave the engine on and leave the car running, such as when warming up the car in winter, when checking under the hood, etc...
      Yes, but please let me explain my theory a bit further. Keeping the car running can be easily done with any type of key. Like on my 40, if I want the engine to run and poke around under the hood, the key is in the "ON" position in the car (vice a push button on the 60). If my S40 key comes out of the dash, the car quits. That's simple, and that type of nanny has worked for decades in our cars.

      Not real sure why a (non-PCC) fob allows it to run when it comes out of the dash and away from the car. That would be the same concept as '99 Chevy being allowed to run when pulling the key out of the tumbler-type ignition. The concept wouldn't make sense for the Chevy but because it's a fob, it makes sense on a brand new auto? Respectfully, that makes no sense.

      Keyless drive, different story...
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    21. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by matt1122 View Post
      Have you tried turning it off and turning it on again? (The setting, not the car.) That actually works for some of this stuff when the car arrives from factory with some things not working. Solved several similar problems on my mom's XC60, including no chirp and mirrors not folding/unfolding when they should.
      Yes sir, but no difference.
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    22. #22
      Junior Member mr_raider's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ride S40T View Post
      Yes, but please let me explain my theory a bit further. Keeping the car running can be easily done with any type of key. Like on my 40, if I want the engine to run and poke around under the hood, the key is in the "ON" position in the car (vice a push button on the 60). If my S40 key comes out of the dash, the car quits. That's simple, and that type of nanny has worked for decades in our cars.

      Not real sure why a (non-PCC) fob allows it to run when it comes out of the dash and away from the car. That would be the same concept as '99 Chevy being allowed to run when pulling the key out of the tumbler-type ignition. The concept wouldn't make sense for the Chevy but because it's a fob, it makes sense on a brand new auto? Respectfully, that makes no sense.

      Keyless drive, different story...
      It prevents car theft. In a classic key setup, if you leave the engine running with the key in the ignition, any thief can drive your car away with impunity. In PCC systems, the thief can still drive away, but as soon as he stops the car, it becomes dead weight.


      Besides ,there is a huge warning on the dash that says key not detected.
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    23. #23
      Junior Member tomek's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ride S40T View Post
      With the push start.

      Parked in a niosy parking lot, got out, closed door, walked about 20 feet, turned back to look and lock the doors...no chirp. Got closer, pushed harder, said bad words, pushed harder again. Got closer...uh well, the car was still running.

      Guess I grazed the start/stop and didn't notice it was still running due to heavy construction noise...yes, I should have noticed RPMs but the "chime" didn't chime (nanny me) and it's not designed to in that circumstance. Had my hands full so attention was on not dropping stuff, inattention on my part, I know.

      Anyway, don't think this is a good design. I may have been locking the doors but had I not listened for the chirp or looked for the lights, the car may have sat idling the whole time I was away. Not good.

      The car should quit if I take the key out and walk away, period. What could have been had I not locked it at all? Geez. Guess technology should protect us from ourselves because I'm sure we all have these types of moments, hence, CitySafe to name one.

      Anyone else experience this? No keyless drive or PCC on the car.
      That's why when I was getting 08 XC70 I didn't want PCC, in that car key fob would motor out only with ignition off. I was very disappointed when I found out I can pull key fob out any time on my wife's 12XC60. If you been driving Volvos for years, you'll see many more cost saving "improvements" on newer models.
      Last edited by tomek; 05-21-2013 at 02:08 AM.

    24. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by geokilla View Post
      My car never chirps when I lock it, even though I have it set in Sensus to chirp. Same with the safe home lighting stuff. Forces me to lock the car twice and approach the car and get home "dangerously".
      This was a software bug, or a software oops. The chirp was not functional on my S60 after I took delivery. It was a consequential software update, not sure which one, that enabled the chirp. But the chirp is still a little quirky. With PCC it will only chirp if you hit the drivers door handle after either the car has moved or engine shut down, not sure which. If you relock, no chirp, lock by passenger door, no chirp. But at least its a chirp, and not a horn blow. I just can't stand those..
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    25. #25
      Member matt1122's Avatar
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      Oh, right. So there's no warning when you remove the key on the non-keyless models.
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    26. #26
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      If the car is running and the key is taken out of range of the car, then you shouldn't be able to shift it out of Park. Unfortunately, that isn't how it works.
      Last edited by okvolvo72; 05-26-2013 at 01:50 AM.

    27. #27
      Junior Member Ride S40T's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by vroomr View Post
      The new Lincoln MKZ honks briefly as if to say "hey, stupid" if the key leaves the car with the engine on. That's a good design.

      Ask me how I know it has this feature.

      -Signed,
      Stupid
      Yes, perfect example how technology should give us cues - as it changes and progresses. Respectfully, I really don't think this has anything with us being stupid, idiots or any of the like. On the contrary, we typically have A LOT on our minds most days and technology tells us we need to continue to process copious amounts of information and process it all at once. Most days we can do this, yes.

      This system is simply harder to keep up with than a plain ole' tumbler system, with or without an encrypted electronic chip and basically does the opposite of what technology is supposed to do for us. Agreed, the electronics of a fob make a car dead weight to a thief but from a practicality standpoint what in the world makes this system any better than a twist type system? I just don't see it. Gotta be on our "A" game all the time and sometimes we're not...with the implications of "not" having a very annoying impact.

      Swap seats in the mall parking lot with your significant other (with the key in your pocket) and watch them drive away - just once...either PPC on non-PCC and tell me it's still a good concept. For us to tell ourselves, "just don't forget" is really not the answer. What I'd be looking for is the EXACT same concept citysafety does for us when (again) we're not on our game. Running into someone at 19mph is not stupidity...it's inattentiveness. We like that system and ACC but no "head's up" when we're about to leave our car running or let another driver leave without the ability to restart the car? Doesn't follow our logic trail for tech.

      Guess this horse wasn't dead for me....
      Last edited by Ride S40T; 05-27-2013 at 03:30 PM.
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    28. #28
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      Everyone should keep in mind that this system is bombarding you with a message that the key has left the car. I understand the pros and cons of the system. I believe it could be improved. For one, it shouldn't let you shift out of Park without the key in range of the vehicle. Period. This would allow you to warm up the vehicle without the fear of someone stealing it. (It is illegal in most areas to warm up an unattended vehicle.)


      Quote Originally Posted by Ride S40T View Post
      Yes, perfect example how technology should give us cues - as it changes and progresses. Respectfully, I really don't think this has anything with us being stupid, idiots or any of the like. On the contrary, we typically have A LOT on our minds most days and technology tells us we need to continue to process copious amounts of information and process it all at once. Most days, yes.

      This system is simply harder to keep up with than a plain ole' tumbler system, with or without an encrypted electronic chip and basically does the opposite of what technology is supposed to do for us. Agreed, the electronics of a fob make a car dead weight to a thief in a --non-PCC car--, but from a practicality standpoint what in the world makes this system any better than a twist type system? I just don't see it. Sure, it's cool to walk up and open the door or trunk with a PCC type system but for safety and practicality? Gotta be on our "A" game all the time, and sometimes we're not...with the implications of "not" having a very annoying impact.

      Swap seats in the mall parking lot with your significant other (with the key in your pocket) and watch them drive away - just once...either PPC on non-PCC. All for tech, when it enhances the environment, not makes it more cumbersome. For us to tell ourselves, "just don't forget" is really not the answer.

      Guess this horse wasn't dead for me....
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    29. #29
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      Got to be on our "A" game all the time? For a key? Really now?

      I honestly think this thread is over-exaggerating this issue. The first time I read the title I thought something was actually wrong with the car and might put you or others in danger. The thing that you describe here *does not* do that. At worst it can be an annoyance.

      And all this hypothetical "what if I leave the car on, grab the key, go in the house, forget it in the kitchen then drive away" - OR - "change the driver and forget the key in the pocket" is just BS in my opinion.
      Look, you don't have a PCC, then DON'T take the key out of the slot. Period.
      And if you do have the PCC, the car not only displays a message in the dashboard but also beeps like crazy.

      As with any system, it can be improved, but it is by no means a safety issue.
      It's like saying, why isn't the car warning me when I forget to put the fuel pump back before driving and ripping it away.

    30. #30
      Junior Member Ride S40T's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by stormlv View Post
      Got to be on our "A" game all the time? For a key? Really now?

      I honestly think this thread is over-exaggerating this issue. The first time I read the title I thought something was actually wrong with the car and might put you or others in danger. The thing that you describe here *does not* do that. At worst it can be an annoyance.

      And all this hypothetical "what if I leave the car on, grab the key, go in the house, forget it in the kitchen then drive away" - OR - "change the driver and forget the key in the pocket" is just BS in my opinion.
      Look, you don't have a PCC, then DON'T take the key out of the slot. Period.
      And if you do have the PCC, the car not only displays a message in the dashboard but also beeps like crazy.

      As with any system, it can be improved, but it is by no means a safety issue.

      It's like saying, why isn't the car warning me when I forget to put the fuel pump back before driving and ripping it away.
      Okay, so "A" game and thread being an a bit of exaggeration? Agree. It's simply a peeve of mine.

      The rest, I appreciate your point of view but don't agree. Other manufacturers have it...so what's wrong with improving our system? Simple enough? Just talking about it is all we're doing.

      And my car sitting in a very busy parking lot running may not be a safety issue in your opinion, it is in mine and where I work, a ticket will be issued for it. Because of safety. And no, remote start is not authorized at the location either.

      Along those same lines, most remote start cars can't be removed from park unless the key is in the dash. Wow what a concept. Wonder if it's there for safety and security?
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    31. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ride S40T View Post
      Okay, so "A" game and thread being an a bit of exaggeration? Agree. It's simply a peeve of mine.

      The rest, I appreciate your point of view but don't agree. Other manufacturers have it...so what's wrong with improving our system? Simple enough? Just talking about it is all we're doing.

      And my car sitting in a very busy parking lot running may not be a safety issue in your opinion, it is in mine and where I work, a ticket will be issued for it. Because of safety. And no, remote start is not authorized at the location either.

      Along those same lines, most remote start cars can't be removed from park unless the key is in the dash. Wow what a concept. Wonder if it's there for safety and security?
      You obviously don't like the way your non-PCC car acts and I can sympathize.
      But, you're mixing a lot of "what if"s while trying to get your point across.

      And I still don't agree that this is a real safety issue. It's no different than forgetting to turn off the car in a regular one.
      In this case one would realize that the car is running because you don't have your key in your pocket to lock it, and in your case you have realized that something is wrong when the car didn't allow you to lock it.
      In both circumstances if the driver forgot to turn the car off and just left without locking, the same thing would have happened: the car would have kept running and running.
      In your view this would be a safety issue as well - but how could the car protect itself against that?

      And your Volvo does try to prevent quite a lot of stuff...out of safety reasons and for security concerns (which are not the same thing btw).

      This for instance would be a real security issue (watch around min 3:10):


      Anyway, I re-read the owners manual and I found this thing:
      "When you switch off the ignition, the gear selector must be in the P (Park) position before the remote key can be removed from the ignition slot."

      This means that
      1) they can prevent you from taking the key out of the slot
      2) they're only doing it when the car is out of P

      To me, this suggests that there was a use case scenario where you want to remove the key and leave the engine running.
      Last edited by stormlv; 05-27-2013 at 10:19 PM.

    32. #32
      Quote Originally Posted by stormlv View Post
      And if you do have the PCC, the car not only displays a message in the dashboard but also beeps like crazy.
      This! I can't imagine how someone would drive away in a running PCC Volvo without the key in the car unless it was on purpose, you get a huge error message on the dash and it beeps until the key returns or you shut the car off.
      2002 Volvo S60 T5 5M (SOLD) - ECU, intake, exhaust - 2:05 at BIR long course || 2006 Volvo S60R 6M Sonic Blue (RIP - saved my life) - 2:03.5 at BIR long course - 2:00 at BIR short course - Road Trip Pics - My HD Trackday Videos - Loud enough for ya? || 2007 Volvo S80 V8 (his), Barents Blue, 35% tint, Sport Package (4C), Heated and Cooled Seats || 2011 Volvo XC70 T6 (hers), Oyster Grey, 35% tint, hood liner removed so I can hear the turbo now

    33. #33
      Member DWBF1's Avatar
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      Changed thread title...this is not a safety issue (as OP has conceded) so should not be flagged as such.
      2000 V70 R| 2011 S60 T6 Polestar AWD

    34. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by DWBF1 View Post
      Changed thread title...this is not a safety issue (as OP has conceded) so should not be flagged as such.
      Probably should change that title again to "Keyless Drive cars stays running when key removed" It's not just Volvo, our Lexus will stay running and can be driven without the key detected.
      2012 S60 T5 - Flamenco Red, Soft/Sandstone Beige, Climate, Premium, Multimedia, Xenons, BLIS, PCC, Park Assist, Urbane Wood, Rear Spoiler

    35. #35
      Member DWBF1's Avatar
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      OP said he doesn't have PCC though?
      2000 V70 R| 2011 S60 T6 Polestar AWD

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