Slave Cylinder or a Fluid Issue
Username
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    Welcome to SwedeSpeed
    You're currently browsing Swedespeed as a guest. Please sign up or sign in and take part in the conversation with other Volvo owners and enthusiasts. With more 2 million posts our community is one of the most active groups of Volvo owners in the world. Take a moment to sign up and enjoy all of the features our forums have to offer.
    Results 1 to 29 of 29
    1. #1

      Slave Cylinder or a Fluid Issue

      Today on my drive home, I went to shift from 2nd to 3rd, and sure enough, clutch pedal stuck to the floor. I was going downhill, so I coasted into a parking lot. I popped the clutch up, but I was unable to shift into any gears, almost as if a gate lock was on, and the clutch felt as though it wouldn't push all the way down.

      Then I turned off the car, looked at the pedal, because I thought maybe it was something in there. At that point, I could shift into gears, etc, but the clutch still felt as though it wouldn't go down all the way, to the point that I couldn't get the car to turn back on because the clutch wouldn't go all the way down.

      Finally, I pushed on it hard and was able to get it started, and the clutch sort of worked on the way home, but I was burning it a lot.

      Once I pulled into the garage, the clutch then felt like it was going all the way to the floor again. I haven't turned it back on to test or anything since. Just been doing research. My gut tells me that the slave cylinder has /self, or is at very least standing on a stool with a noose around its neck, but before I drop the however many thousands into that, the fact that it's not constant and seems to be changing is making me wonder if it is something simple, like I knocked some sort of adjustment out. The pedal itself seemed like it wouldn't go all the way down, independent of the clutch itself. It seemed almost as if something was blocking it. I am having trouble visualizing how the slave cylinder would cause this. Could I have just knocked it out of order? I did shift fairly hard.
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    2. #2
      Bit of an update, went down to the garage, started up the car, clutch function is now normal, but there is a sound when it is engaging, and a bit of vibration in the pedal. Maybe needs an adjustment? Air in the line? The level does not seem to be low on the brake fluid...but maybe a flush?
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    3. #3
      Junior Member SectorNine50's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2012
      Location
      Oregon, USA
      Posts
      966
      Usually slave cylinders leak, causing a complete loss of clutch ability that doesn't mend it's self.

      It sounds to me like you might have some binding going on somewhere... Perhaps your master cylinder?
      2005 Silver/Nordkap S60 R 6-Speed

    4. #4
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Aug 2013
      Location
      No. Virginia
      Posts
      23

      Slave Cylinder or a Fluid Issue

      My guess is that your gut instinct is correct. If it is the slave cylinder; it is inside the transmission and IT WILL (not if) leak every 85,000 miles. I have had it done twice, once at around 85K and the second time at 162k. the first time it leaked on to the clutch; and apparently the chemicals in the brake fluid will destroy the clutch. the second time it was forgiving as I took the car in the moment I saw the "low brake fluid" light. had it checked out and sure enough it was the slave cylinder and was able to save the clutch. have you had any leaks, or low brake fluid lights?
      I hold Volvo responsible for designing/using a inferior quality slave cylinder (I guess they have to make dealers happy and hope we all do not talk to each other). But what are we to do we love our R's so much we put up with. I bet you if we took a survey on swedespeed of all the manual Trans. R's (2004 - 2007 models); you will find whoever had the slave cylinder go bad, it happened between 80k and 90k miles on their cars, especially if you live in somewhat warmer climate. Anyway, sorry about the rant on this issue, but I am still bitter about it as Volvo's extended warranty did not cover it and they refused to help me in any way. anyone would be bitter about it if they spent a total of $5,000 on the same issue. The dealer said "why don't you fill up the brake fluid and drive a couple of hundred miles, if it leaks again we will check it out. I bet you he knew what it was, but made it sound like he was trying to save me money and really mess up my clutch so it is a bigger bill. it was $2,900 the first time and $2,100 without the clutch 2nd time
      if you can do it yourself, or have a good mechanic that you regularly work with, I suggest getting the parts from IPD and get it done. I do not wish this upon anyone. I hope it is not the issue in your case. but I do smell "brake fluid" here, if you have low brake fluid or leaks.
      Good luck to you.

    5. #5
      No leak and my brake fluid is completely topped off... Which is what makes me think it's more of a linkage, adjustment issue.

      I'm thinking it might have something to do with the Master Cylinder now, actually. The fluid level is fine, the clutch still works, and I'm almost certain that the stupid little ball-joint on the top of the master cylinder was off or coming off when I initially had the issue.

      What does it typically feel like when the slave goes? What happened to me felt as though something right at the pedal broke, it did not feel hydraulic in any way. It felt like a link of some sort snapped.

      I dunno, here's hoping :fingerscrossed:
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    6. #6
      If there was a leak, would it leak to the point that it was leaking on the ground? Would pumping the clutch pedal result in fluid being lost? Again, it's been 3 hours since it happened, and my level is still 100% full...
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    7. #7
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Aug 2013
      Location
      No. Virginia
      Posts
      23
      in my case nothing happened with my clutch, it felt normal both times. however the brake light came on both times. first time it was a visible drip, even though it was a slow leak.
      I would put a piece or cloth or paper underneath car over night and see if you see any oil drips, just in case there is a brake fluid leak. it can be a very slow leak at first. both times it happened in summer months. but yours sounds a bit different.
      BTW also check out V70R.com and search through the threads there. I started out on that forum. you might find some more info there as well and more specific to the Rs in general

    8. #8
      I found this post which has some of the symptoms mine had when it happened:

      http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthr...=1#post2005495

      I just replaced my clutch master cylinder over R&R (not very fun by the way). My symtoms were non-shiftability. When the car was running, the car wouldn't shift into any gear.. so the clutch wasn't releasing. Already swapped the transmission, the slave and the clutch line. Bled multiple times. So.. yeah I don't think its the master in your case... I hope that helps
      I couldn't get mine into gear when it was happening as well. But once I stopped, and fooled around with the pedal for a bit, it worked again. I'm almost wondering if it's something with the self-adjustment mechanism. Like when it got stuck down and I popped it up, it felt like something released, felt like something broke or flipped out of the way or something. And then it really wouldn't push all the way to the floor no matter what I did. I didn't get a chance to look at why that was happening, but it felt like something was preventing the pedal from going all the way down. I would imagine the slave cylinder operates independent of the travel of the pedal, as I think by looking at it that the adjustment mechanism is probably in the master cylinder? Does that sound right? Is there a way to get it to adjust? Can't figure out what that grinding sound was though... I almost think that the clutch pedal is like out of alignment in some way, i.e. when I push it all the way down, the part that was preventing it from going all the way to the floor became the "bottom" and thus when the clutch is all the way out, it still thinks it's a couple of inches in...
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    9. #9
      Junior Member SectorNine50's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2012
      Location
      Oregon, USA
      Posts
      966
      I believe most master cylinders "adjust" by just pulling a bit more fluid from the brake fluid tank as you release the clutch pedal as necessary. When the slave cylinder went out on my Saab, it started out by my pedal dropping to the floor very easily with very little clutch disengagement. Eventually it completely failed and I had to drive the car to the shop without a clutch (was pretty fun, actually).

      I'm willing to bet that you're getting binding within the master cylinder it's self. My guess is that the vibration you're now feeling is the plunger in the master cylinder "skipping" on the cylinder walls as you press the pedel down. You'll have to visibly inspect the linkage to be sure that's not the culprit, of course.

      Either way, when unsure, start cheap, and work your way up (ie. start at the master cylinder).
      Last edited by SectorNine50; 09-07-2013 at 01:12 AM.
      2005 Silver/Nordkap S60 R 6-Speed

    10. #10
      So I took it for a bit of a drive today. The clutch now feels nearly 100% back to normal, it's the damndest thing... When I first pulled out of the driveway, I got a slight vibration and whirring sound as the clutch engaged, just as it did last night, but after about 2 or 3 stop and starts, it was pretty close to absolutely normal. Maybe just a slight vibration as it engages, but probably nothing anyone that hadn't had my run-in yesterday would even notice. However, the gear linkage appears to be fairly notchy now, as if it's got some issues going into gear. It will still go in, just fights a bit.

      I'm wondering if the clutch is self-adjusting back to normal, but I think the shifting into gear is still symptomatic of the master cylinder going bad. What's the best place to get one, and is it a big deal to put it in?
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    11. #11
      Also, topped off the brake fluid tonight, was not low this morning, had not lost one bit.
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    12. #12
      Member
      Join Date
      Jul 2003
      Location
      Penngrove, California
      Posts
      2,089
      Check to see if you still have the clutch return spring under the dash. It is designed to give an "over center" assist to clutch depression. They can become disconnected and it may be binding.

      If you are not seeing fluid leaks it could be that your throw out bearing or clutch disc is binding on the transmission input shaft. Slave and bearing are integral. You mentioned a slight whirring sound which is typical of a failing throw out bearing. Does it change with pressure on the clutch pedal?

      Binding on input shaft or failed bearing will require R&R of transmission, lots of labor, moderate parts cost other than "while you are in there" things like new disc and pressure plate.

    13. #13
      Quote Originally Posted by rogersampson View Post
      Check to see if you still have the clutch return spring under the dash. It is designed to give an "over center" assist to clutch depression. They can become disconnected and it may be binding.

      If you are not seeing fluid leaks it could be that your throw out bearing or clutch disc is binding on the transmission input shaft. Slave and bearing are integral. You mentioned a slight whirring sound which is typical of a failing throw out bearing. Does it change with pressure on the clutch pedal?

      Binding on input shaft or failed bearing will require R&R of transmission, lots of labor, moderate parts cost other than "while you are in there" things like new disc and pressure plate.
      The spring was not hanging or anything, but I didn't check it really closely to make sure it was still connected or anything.

      As for the sound, I drove the car to the store today, the clutch now feels 100% fine. The gearbox is very notchy though, it really feels like you have to force it into gear sometimes. I was messing around with the shift linkage last night though, while looking for the clutch bleeder, so it could be unrelated, as it was fine after the initial issue getting it to go into gear. The whirring sound has quieted down quite a bit, but while in the garage, I got a much better idea of how it is happening. It does not follow the clutch, i.e. engaged/disengaged. It appears to be 100% linked to whether or not the car is in gear. If it is out of gear, I can push, pull, bop, twist, or whatever to the clutch without any noise. However, if I put it into gear, I hear a mechanical sound that immediately goes away if I engage the clutch. For a different visual, if that was hard to follow, if the car is out of gear, there is no noise, regardless of pushing or not pushing the clutch. If I push in the clutch and shift into a gear, I get a slight mechanical whirring sound. If I then take it out of gear or release the clutch pedal to move the car, the noise also disappears.

      I'm really wondering if I somehow uncalibrated the shift linkage while looking for the clutch bleeder (which I never used anyway, even after removing the airbox, etc...)...
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    14. #14
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Aug 2013
      Location
      Sun Prairie, WI
      Posts
      27
      I'm definitely not a Volvo expert, but assuming there is nothing unusual about the design it sounds like a linkage problem. A leaking slave cylinder typically results in the resistance disappearing when pushing the clutch pedal because the clutch is no longer moving the pressure plate or not moving it as much as it should. If it were a problem in the clutch mechanism such as throw out bearing or clutch disc binding your pedal shouldn't have stuck to the floor. My guess is there is some issue with the linkage between the pedal and master cylinder.

      The burning clutch smell was probably something between the pedal and master cylinder was binding and not fully returned causing the pressure plate to be partially deflected which reduced clutch clamping load. If there was a lot of clutch slipping going on this could have overheated and damaged the flywheel which may be resulting in the vibration now.

      If there is something unique about the Volvo systems I hope someone corrects me.

    15. #15
      Quote Originally Posted by WI_Volvo View Post
      I'm definitely not a Volvo expert, but assuming there is nothing unusual about the design it sounds like a linkage problem. A leaking slave cylinder typically results in the resistance disappearing when pushing the clutch pedal because the clutch is no longer moving the pressure plate or not moving it as much as it should. If it were a problem in the clutch mechanism such as throw out bearing or clutch disc binding your pedal shouldn't have stuck to the floor. My guess is there is some issue with the linkage between the pedal and master cylinder.

      The burning clutch smell was probably something between the pedal and master cylinder was binding and not fully returned causing the pressure plate to be partially deflected which reduced clutch clamping load. If there was a lot of clutch slipping going on this could have overheated and damaged the flywheel which may be resulting in the vibration now.

      If there is something unique about the Volvo systems I hope someone corrects me.
      The clutch smell is pretty much completely gone now, as is the vibration. I was able to start the car going forward and reverse by just slowly letting out the clutch, not even giving it any gas, and that resulted in no slipping, burning, etc... The notchiness annoys me.
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    16. #16
      And now this morning, for some reason, when the clutch goes to engage, I get a ticking sort of sound. Once it is engaged, it seems fine, but I feel a vibration in the pedal, get a burning clutch smell, and a shudder/ticking sound as it engages.

      Now...apparently, last night at some point, I had forgotten to replace the top of the brake fluid reservoir, so that was open under the hood while all this was happening. Maybe it could have gotten air into the line? But again, I'm having no feel issues other than a ticking/vibration feel when it engages. It feels more like something spinning is hitting something not spinning at a fairly constant rate. Still no leak from the bottom of the bell housing, and even with the lid off the reservoir, I didn't lose much brake fluid at all.

      I've about had it with this car. I've never been overly happy with its handling, speed, etc... Once this is fixed, I'll probably sell it and get something else... It's one thing to have ridiculous issues like this in a very high performance car, but in a car like this, not worth the trouble.
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    17. #17
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Aug 2013
      Location
      Sun Prairie, WI
      Posts
      27
      I doubt the latest issues are related to possibly getting air in the line. I would wash down any areas that you think brake fluid may have splashed on to mitigate paint damage.

    18. #18
      I didn't splash anywhere that I can see...the hood was down the whole time.

      I'm just getting really sick of this thing. I was prepared for maintenance issues, but the car hasn't brought enough bonus to account for the problems it's had. I'm still thinking it might be master cylinder...any idea how difficult it is to replace that? Or the best place to get one? Pretty much any part I've ever ordered for this thing has ended up not being the right one...
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    19. #19
      So I drove it this afternoon. Clutch feels absolutely fine, gearbox is still a bit notchy, but driveable, without any issue. It almost feels like it isn't synchronized. But then at the end of my drive, clutch starts burning a bit, and I can feel vibration in the pedal. Park it, turn it off, back on, it works fine again.

      Still no loss of brake fluid of any kind or leak of any kind. That is leading me to think pressure issue in the master cylinder. I'm going to order one of those. Any DIYs on replacing it? Is it difficult?
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    20. #20
      Worth pointing out, the pedal has not gotten stuck to the floor once since the initial one...
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    21. #21
      OK, today, clutch feel completely gone, pedal feels like it won't go all the way to the ground, I can shift without the clutch, but it feels like it won't disengage. I'm having it towed to a repair shop later today, anyone please chime in as to whether it sounds like slave or master cylinder... Not exactly a lot of response in this forum.
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    22. #22
      Member n23's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2009
      Location
      Tampa, FL
      Posts
      1,468
      We aren't magicians and you are posting a lot.

      Personally I've been lucky and the slave/master/tranny in my 04 is fine after 130k miles, so I don't have much to add. Good luck?

    23. #23
      Junior Member iamtheshaner's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 2013
      Location
      Champaign, IL
      Posts
      115
      Quote Originally Posted by napkinn View Post
      OK, today, clutch feel completely gone, pedal feels like it won't go all the way to the ground, I can shift without the clutch, but it feels like it won't disengage. I'm having it towed to a repair shop later today, anyone please chime in as to whether it sounds like slave or master cylinder... Not exactly a lot of response in this forum.
      Yeah, this board moves a lot of threads but not a lot of comments.

      I suppose you could have a master cylinder issue but the whole "pedal not going all the way down" thing bothers me. A master cylinder is likely only going to fail in a manner that does not allow it to pressurize the system. There isn't much in it to bind. Usually they bypass which will make your pedal feel spongy, soft and your clutch will not fully disengage. Sounds like your pedal is stiffer and has limited travel???

      The vibration and noise you hear when engaging the clutch is called chatter. It is the result of accelerated wear and glazing of the disk. Pretty common if a clutch ever slips too much or gets too hot. It tends go away after several applications of "normal" clutch slippage but depending on how badly glazed and how badly worn it very well could be permanent.

      The "notchy" feel of your gearbox is probably just the clutch not fully disengaging. Your gearbox can execute a shift will very little disengagement (or none) depending on when the shift is selected.

      My suggestion is to have a shop look at it. Do not throw parts at it. It will be expensive as is everything with these.

      This is really all the advise I can provide. Your symptom descriptions are not crystal clear so anything else I suggest is just conjecture
      07 SR / Passion Red / Gobi / 6MT

    24. #24
      Quote Originally Posted by iamtheshaner View Post
      Yeah, this board moves a lot of threads but not a lot of comments.

      I suppose you could have a master cylinder issue but the whole "pedal not going all the way down" thing bothers me. A master cylinder is likely only going to fail in a manner that does not allow it to pressurize the system. There isn't much in it to bind. Usually they bypass which will make your pedal feel spongy, soft and your clutch will not fully disengage. Sounds like your pedal is stiffer and has limited travel???

      The vibration and noise you hear when engaging the clutch is called chatter. It is the result of accelerated wear and glazing of the disk. Pretty common if a clutch ever slips too much or gets too hot. It tends go away after several applications of "normal" clutch slippage but depending on how badly glazed and how badly worn it very well could be permanent.

      The "notchy" feel of your gearbox is probably just the clutch not fully disengaging. Your gearbox can execute a shift will very little disengagement (or none) depending on when the shift is selected.

      My suggestion is to have a shop look at it. Do not throw parts at it. It will be expensive as is everything with these.

      This is really all the advise I can provide. Your symptom descriptions are not crystal clear so anything else I suggest is just conjecture
      Hmmm... The clutch is not fully disengaging, actually, it now appears to not be disengaging at all. I can still shift it without the clutch (not fun with two screaming toddlers in the car, mind you). I keep coming back to there being no missing brake fluid whatsoever... The pedal feel is nonexistant until about 2 or 3 inches above bottom, then it feels blocked/sponged, etc... Feels like there's a really tough tennis ball wedged behind it, but it never "gives" if that makes sense...

      I've got a call into my nearest mechanic, they're looking up prices. I think I might have them replace the master first, no matter what. I'd love to find a DIY on the master and just do it myself, it doesn't look terribly difficult, other than getting to it...
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    25. #25
      So it ended up being that my clutch literally just broke. One side of the disc was cracked in half. There was no sign of a leak from the slave (it was replaced anyway) and the throwout was going, but not gone. Flywheel survived. In and out the door for the wonderful total of $1326.26.

      Just happy to have it back, since my wife killed our '03 V70 on Monday leaving us with zero working cars for a short period of time (everyone is ok, thankfully)...

      Here's a few pics of that if anyone's interested:










      Here's one without the bumper cover on. Really did a number on the V70.

      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    26. #26
      Junior Member SectorNine50's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2012
      Location
      Oregon, USA
      Posts
      966
      Ouch on both counts... Glad everyone is okay though.

      How'd the accident happen?
      2005 Silver/Nordkap S60 R 6-Speed

    27. #27
      My wife rear-ended my rental car as we were turning into the rental place to return it. No joke. It's been a crummy week.
      2006 BMW 330i - The Ultimate Daily Driver
      2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG - The Little Lady's

    28. #28
      Junior Member SectorNine50's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2012
      Location
      Oregon, USA
      Posts
      966
      Quote Originally Posted by napkinn View Post
      My wife rear-ended my rental car as we were turning into the rental place to return it. No joke. It's been a crummy week.
      ...Ouch again...

      Have a glass of something and be happy it's Friday, it can only get better from here!
      2005 Silver/Nordkap S60 R 6-Speed

    29. #29
      That sucks on all accounts I wish I would have seen this post earlier I just did the master cylinder myself, it was a pain in the ass but not hard. Sorry to hear it was much more expensive than that. Oh and if anyone does a master cylinder in the future I got mine from rock auto, I compared it with the old master cylinder and didn't catch that the length of the shaft that hooks to your pedal was different so after getting it installed I found out the new shaft was to short. But anyways you can swap the shafts by popping out a clip. I built a piece to close the gap until I swapped the shafts worked pretty well.