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    1. #1

      Replacing Engine & Manual Transmission

      Hey SS,

      I've recently ran into some issues with my 97 850R as you can see in this thread: http://forums.swedespeed.com/#/forum.../314889?page=3

      So today I found a local 97 850 with 139k miles with both engine and manual transmission available for $500.

      My question is.... Since my engine seems shot due to lack of cylinder compression, would it be wise to replace the engine altogether as some would advise or should I just take it apart and fix whatever is causing the issues.

      I ask because let's say that I put in the engine I found locally. What's there to guarantee it won't have the same issue in a month or two. At least taking apart my engine and replacing the seals would give me peace of mind. Or am I wrong?

      Thanks!

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    3. #2
      Member JaredR's Avatar
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      (I'm going to assume that you are in the US)

      Engine in a manual 850 is going to be NA. Not useful for your R. Rebuild your engine or find another B5324T or B5234T5 to put in it. Or do a RN swap which opens up a whole new world of engine options, but (and I mean no offense here whatsoever because we all start from the bottom when we get on the learning curve) you have a LOT of research to do before you're ready for a RN swap if you're asking if you can put an engine from a NA car in your R.

    4. #3
      Quote Originally Posted by JaredR View Post
      (I'm going to assume that you are in the US)

      Engine in a manual 850 is going to be NA. Not useful for your R. Rebuild your engine or find another B5324T or B5234T5 to put in it. Or do a RN swap which opens up a whole new world of engine options, but (and I mean no offense here whatsoever because we all start from the bottom when we get on the learning curve) you have a LOT of research to do before you're ready for a RN swap if you're asking if you can put an engine from a NA car in your R.
      No offense taken whatsoever and I really appreciate the reply. After I posted this yesterday, I began looking into the different types of engines available and more specifically, I kept asking the seller to give me part numbers to find out exactly what engine/transmission he has since I know there are different variations. I just never knew the manual cars all came with NA engines, I also assumed maybe somebody probably put in a manual swap or something. But sure enough, the engine looks like it's going to be a 2.5L which is not what my R is gonna accept lol.

      I'm leaning more towards rebuilding the engine. But you suggested maybe to find another B5234T (your post said B5324T?) or B5234T5 to put in my R. Do you think that would be better than just rebuilding mine and having the piece of mind that the engine will be good going forward since it was just rebuilt?

      Also, once I get the serial number for the tranny, which is the one I would need to do a manual swap? I'm sick of auto on this car.

      Thank you so much for your help!
      2004 Volvo S60R - Stuff. IPD Elevate Snabb.
      1997 Volvo 850R - All original, all stock, all beautiful.

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    6. #4
      Member Wayne T5's Avatar
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      Most used motors come with a warranty for some period. I would probably lean toward replacing the motor but hopefully others who have dealt with this will post their thoughts.
      Past Volvos: '94 854, '99 S70 T5 SE, '99 S70 GLT, '04 S60RM, '12 S60 T5, '13 S60 T5, '15 S60 RD
      Present Garage: '16 MX5 Club, '95 854 T-5R, '05 V70RGT, '15.5 XC60 T6, '16 V60 P*

    7. #5
      Member JaredR's Avatar
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      Yes, that was a typo.
      Any p80 m56 will bolt right up. Any P2 M56 or fwd M66 will also work with some minor mods.

    8. #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Wayne T5 View Post
      Most used motors come with a warranty for some period. I would probably lean toward replacing the motor but hopefully others who have dealt with this will post their thoughts.
      Yeah, definitely helps with the added warranty.

    9. #7
      Quote Originally Posted by JaredR View Post
      Yes, that was a typo.
      Any p80 m56 will bolt right up. Any P2 M56 or fwd M66 will also work with some minor mods.
      Is there any way to tell the difference between the p80 m56 versus the P2 m56?

    10. #8
      Member JaredR's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nick_rabbo View Post
      Is there any way to tell the difference between the p80 m56 versus the P2 m56?
      They usually have a sticker on them that says what they are. If there's a sticker on them and it's not clear what it is, you can email Volvo and ask them. All of my research on P2 transmissions has been for the M66 so I'm not sure what the differences would be for the M56. The M56LK/M56L2 has a 0.65:1 5th which would be nice if you are planning on doing a lot of highway driving. This was used in diesel P80s and some P2s, not sure exactly which ones. I wouldn't bother with M66 because the ratio spread on the ones we can get here is the same as the M56H so you're just shifting more for no reason. The ultimate if you are planning on doing a lot of highway driving would be a M66D (what I am using; 2,000 RPM @65 mph) but you'll have to import it from Europe which can be a pain and the payoff period on hit has gone through the roof since gas prices tanked.


      As for engine, I would take it apart and rebuild what you have unless you find there is a serious/expensive problem with it. Any replacement engine you get is going to have 20 years of unknown history and you'll want to do service on it, too. I would feel much better about an engine that I rebuilt myself than an engine that I bought with unknown history/condition.

    11. #9
      Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      Youve most likely lost the head. Tear it off, see whats broken. Probably burnt valves. A replacement head would be less expensive than an engine, but not necessarily easier.

      The NA car is a good donor for a manual transmission but thats not exactly a walk in the park.
      1999 V70 T5 - Emerald/Graphite M56H - 119k - The Garage Queen
      1999 V70 T5 - Pewter/Graphite AW42 - 241k - The Daily
      1993 945 NA -Silver Metallic/Black - 181k - Wagon Rescue Project
      1995 945 Turbo - 425k, 1994 945 Turbo - 234k, 1993 945 Turbo - 318k

    12. #10
      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      Youve most likely lost the head. Tear it off, see whats broken. Probably burnt valves. A replacement head would be less expensive than an engine, but not necessarily easier.

      The NA car is a good donor for a manual transmission but thats not exactly a walk in the park.
      Update:

      Cylinder #3 is back to normal compression. Cylinder #4 is still the issue so I performed a leak down test on cylinder #4 this morning. Could not hear the compressed air coming from anywhere. Checked everything. So correct me if I'm wrong, that at least tells me that it's not the lower end, the block, and it's more to do with the head as you were suspecting. Is that correct thinking? I'm thinking a head gasket, especially because of the following.

      Some other interesting stuff, I noticed there was barely any oil showing on the dipstick and when looking at the oil through the filler cap, it looked a little milky as if there was coolant mixed in, it was a brownish milky color, not black or caramel colored. That could also be symptoms of a head gasket if coolant was getting mixed in, right?

      Not sure what to do next.

    13. #11
      Member JaredR's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nick_rabbo View Post
      Update:

      Cylinder #3 is back to normal compression. Cylinder #4 is still the issue so I performed a leak down test on cylinder #4 this morning. Could not hear the compressed air coming from anywhere. Checked everything. So correct me if I'm wrong, that at least tells me that it's not the lower end, the block, and it's more to do with the head as you were suspecting. Is that correct thinking? I'm thinking a head gasket, especially because of the following.

      Some other interesting stuff, I noticed there was barely any oil showing on the dipstick and when looking at the oil through the filler cap, it looked a little milky as if there was coolant mixed in, it was a brownish milky color, not black or caramel colored. That could also be symptoms of a head gasket if coolant was getting mixed in, right?

      Not sure what to do next.
      yeah milky oil can be indicative of a bad hg. Pull the head and see what you find.

    14. #12
      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      Youve most likely lost the head. Tear it off, see whats broken. Probably burnt valves. A replacement head would be less expensive than an engine, but not necessarily easier.

      The NA car is a good donor for a manual transmission but thats not exactly a walk in the park.
      Quote Originally Posted by JaredR View Post
      yeah milky oil can be indicative of a bad hg. Pull the head and see what you find.
      Hey Guys!

      So I'm in the process of taking off the head. I won't be able to to resume this weekend since I'll be working tomorrow and day after. But this is where I'm at right now. Next, I need to take off the cam cover, camshafts, and head. Before do this, and since I've never done this before, do you guys have any tips for me? I've been using Robert Spinner's tutorial online on how to do this but it gets a little confusing when it comes to the camshafts. Do I need a special cam locking tool? Also, besides turning the crank to align the little mark on the cams to the plastic cutout on the cam cover, is there something else I need to be aligning?

      As always, any help is appreciated and thanks once again.

      Some pics.

      https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...nBxVXJLdnlYQXM
      https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...3duSmI5eVdKSGc
      https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...Fl3QlVUZzZzQU0
      https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...EQybWpPT1kzaG8
      2004 Volvo S60R - Stuff. IPD Elevate Snabb.
      1997 Volvo 850R - All original, all stock, all beautiful.

    15. #13
      Member JaredR's Avatar
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      You mean one of these?


      They're cool for timing belt changes but it's probably not going to do you much good given that you have to take the head off. I think you probably can see why now that you see how these things work.

    16. #14
      Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      Use zip lock bags for bolts and label them. The head bolts are torque to yield so they need to be replaced too


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      1999 V70 T5 - Emerald/Graphite M56H - 119k - The Garage Queen
      1999 V70 T5 - Pewter/Graphite AW42 - 241k - The Daily
      1993 945 NA -Silver Metallic/Black - 181k - Wagon Rescue Project
      1995 945 Turbo - 425k, 1994 945 Turbo - 234k, 1993 945 Turbo - 318k

    17. #15
      Quote Originally Posted by nick_rabbo View Post
      Do I need a special cam locking tool?
      Nope. Save yourself the money.

      Time the engine, get a silver sharpie or any other permanent marker, mark down the pulley, cam, cam to timing cover, etc.

    18. #16
      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      Use zip lock bags for bolts and label them. The head bolts are torque to yield so they need to be replaced too


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Yes for sure. I think certain household members are annoyed since all the ziplock bags suddenly went missing from the kitchen lol.

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredR View Post
      You mean one of these?


      They're cool for timing belt changes but it's probably not going to do you much good given that you have to take the head off. I think you probably can see why now that you see how these things work.
      Okay, yes, that makes sense now. Sorry, I've never done this before and I'm in the process of learning, but yes, now it's starting to click. It would make sense to use that cam locking tool so I don't move the camshafts while changing the timing belt...since they stay in the head. But since I'm taking them off with the head, all I would need to worry about it making sure the camshafts/sprockets go back in the same way I took them out, which I marked by lining up the small mark line on the camshaft sprocket to the indentation on the plastic camshaft sprocket cover.

      Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
      Nope. Save yourself the money.

      Time the engine, get a silver sharpie or any other permanent marker, mark down the pulley, cam, cam to timing cover, etc.
      Can you further clarify this some more for a noob like me? I'm probably going to be taking off the head tomorrow morning. So before taking off the head, I need to make sure I turn the crank until the sprockets' lines line up to the indentation in the camshaft sprocket cover. Like this?



      Besides that, what else do I need to line up or time? What is that shown in the bottom portion of the image, is there something else I'm lining up on the crank?

      Once again, thank you all for the help, this is invaluable!
      2004 Volvo S60R - Stuff. IPD Elevate Snabb.
      1997 Volvo 850R - All original, all stock, all beautiful.

    19. #17
      Member JaredR's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nick_rabbo View Post
      Okay, yes, that makes sense now. Sorry, I've never done this before and I'm in the process of learning, but yes, now it's starting to click. It would make sense to use that cam locking tool so I don't move the camshafts while changing the timing belt...since they stay in the head. But since I'm taking them off with the head, all I would need to worry about it making sure the camshafts/sprockets go back in the same way I took them out, which I marked by lining up the small mark line on the camshaft sprocket to the indentation on the plastic camshaft sprocket cover.
      No worries; just trying to strike the right balance between being explanatory and not insulting your intelligence. We've had some real jokers on here from time to time who are just wasting our time looking for magic bullets to serious problems but so far you seem to be doing well .



      Before you start start pulling the head, make sure you know what the head bolt slackening sequence is. You may find this page helpful:
      http://www.tracystruesoaps.com/tutorials/850hg/p8.html

    20. #18
      Quote Originally Posted by JaredR View Post
      No worries; just trying to strike the right balance between being explanatory and not insulting your intelligence. We've had some real jokers on here from time to time who are just wasting our time looking for magic bullets to serious problems but so far you seem to be doing well .



      Before you start start pulling the head, make sure you know what the head bolt slackening sequence is. You may find this page helpful:
      http://www.tracystruesoaps.com/tutorials/850hg/p8.html
      Right on man, I appreciate it.

      So this is what I was able to get done today.

      Took off the exhaust manifold. It was a pain in the butt to wiggle out because of a line going into the turbo that was in the way and simply how it was situated to the exhaust piping side.





      And upon further inspection, I found these fellas...Is that normal?



      Next up, I was able to align the marking on the crank pulley along with the markings on the cam sprockets, both intake and exhaust side. Then took the timing belt off and next up was the cam cover bolts. Although, I noticed something strange here. I realized there was one missing from the beginning. It was near cylinder #4, the cylinder that showed no compression from the beginning that prompted this whole mess.



      Up came off the cam cover.





      Camshafts stayed in and turned a bunch but that doesn't matter since they're off anyway.



      Now before the nightmarish head bolts, I removed the valves, put them in oil to sit, and soaked up some of the engine oil before I continues.



      I went to the parts store and got a 1/2" to 3/8" adapter to put on my breaker bar with the 14mm socket. The parts guy touted the lifetime warranty the adapter had. When I got back home, I began loosening the 12 head bolts little by little and in the prescribed order to not warp the head and holy cow, are those things tight! I though I was going to snap the breaker bar in half. That, or my back...But I was able to loosen 11 until I got to the 12th one and what do you know, something broke. Sure enough, the life of that lifetime adapter came to a very abrupt end. The parts store is closed now but I sure would love to see that guy's face when he sees his lifetime guaranteed adapter lived only a matter of minutes.



      I shall resume in the morning...
      2004 Volvo S60R - Stuff. IPD Elevate Snabb.
      1997 Volvo 850R - All original, all stock, all beautiful.

    21. #19
      Member JaredR's Avatar
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      I left the exhaust manifold on when I pulled my head. It didn't look to me like the aggravation of leaving it on justified the aggravation of taking it off. The cracks are common. They're not good, but they are probably not good in about the same sense that walking around on your floor in your house wears out the finish. If they bother you, take a look at upgrading your manifold while you have it off. I personally would get a Japanifold, but a lot of people really like the "R" manifold, too; it really is the better flowing manifold, but doesn't sound as good as the original manifold (the Japanifold is just an improved version of what you have originally designed for the manual 850R so it sounds about the same). If you really want to improve the flow, put in an angle flange exhaust housing and DP out of a ME7 x70 while you're in there.

      Not surprised that the 3/8" adapter gave it up. Torque to yield bolts are always a bear to get out. Is that a 6 point socket? I will be quite surprised if that's a 12 point and it outlasted that adapter. I pulled my head bolts with an actual ½" drive socket and had a pretty good piece of pipe over the breaker bar. I probably wouldn't have really needed the pipe, but I don't have the most durable hands so I'm probably quicker than most to grab some extra leverage.

      Also, you're going to want to take those white shoes off.

    22. #20
      Quote Originally Posted by JaredR View Post
      No worries; just trying to strike the right balance between being explanatory and not insulting your intelligence. We've had some real jokers on here from time to time who are just wasting our time looking for magic bullets to serious problems but so far you seem to be doing well .



      Before you start start pulling the head, make sure you know what the head bolt slackening sequence is. You may find this page helpful:
      http://www.tracystruesoaps.com/tutorials/850hg/p8.html
      Quote Originally Posted by JaredR View Post
      I left the exhaust manifold on when I pulled my head. It didn't look to me like the aggravation of leaving it on justified the aggravation of taking it off. The cracks are common. They're not good, but they are probably not good in about the same sense that walking around on your floor in your house wears out the finish. If they bother you, take a look at upgrading your manifold while you have it off. I personally would get a Japanifold, but a lot of people really like the "R" manifold, too; it really is the better flowing manifold, but doesn't sound as good as the original manifold (the Japanifold is just an improved version of what you have originally designed for the manual 850R so it sounds about the same). If you really want to improve the flow, put in an angle flange exhaust housing and DP out of a ME7 x70 while you're in there.

      Not surprised that the 3/8" adapter gave it up. Torque to yield bolts are always a bear to get out. Is that a 6 point socket? I will be quite surprised if that's a 12 point and it outlasted that adapter. I pulled my head bolts with an actual ½" drive socket and had a pretty good piece of pipe over the breaker bar. I probably wouldn't have really needed the pipe, but I don't have the most durable hands so I'm probably quicker than most to grab some extra leverage.

      Also, you're going to want to take those white shoes off.
      So here's the outcome of today's work.

      First, got a better socket for those stubborn head bolts, took them all off, and changed the white shoes lol...



      Oddly enough, not sure if this is normal, but when loosening the bolts near cylinder #4, I heard a hiss sound similar to when you open a bottle of soda. Like compression was being let out. Anyway, this is how it looked as soon as I popped it off. Obviously, you can see the green colored coolant all over this thing, very wet.



      Cylinders 1-3



      Cylinders 3-5



      Closeup of cylinder 4



      And now each cylinder without the head gasket starting with cylinder 1



      Cylinder 2



      Cylinder 3



      Cylinder 4



      and Cylinder 5



      So at this point, just by looking at these pictures, can you tell me what you can deduce? I'm curious what the more experienced ones reading this can tell before I show you what I found next after turning over the head and looking at the valves

      From what I understand, the exhaust side valves should be that tan color shown on cylinders 1,2,3, and 5.



      Cylinder 4 exhaust valves show dark all around and when looking closer, what do ya know...





      So, now that we see this, can you please help me understand a few things as I know this would probably involve a lot of detective work:

      1) When looking at the pictures of the top of the head, the head gasket, the cylinders, the color, the corrosion, the coolant all over, etc, what does that tell you?
      2) When seeing the broken valve on cylinder 4, what could that be caused by?
      3) How or where do I send this in to get a new valve, if that's even worth it or should I just find a new head?
      4) What precautions to take to eliminate the possibility of this happening again?

      Any advice, help, guidance is much appreciated. Thank you.
      2004 Volvo S60R - Stuff. IPD Elevate Snabb.
      1997 Volvo 850R - All original, all stock, all beautiful.

    23. #21
      Member JaredR's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nick_rabbo View Post
      So here's the outcome of today's work.

      First, got a better socket for those stubborn head bolts, took them all off, and changed the white shoes lol...

      So, now that we see this, can you please help me understand a few things as I know this would probably involve a lot of detective work:

      1) When looking at the pictures of the top of the head, the head gasket, the cylinders, the color, the corrosion, the coolant all over, etc, what does that tell you?
      2) When seeing the broken valve on cylinder 4, what could that be caused by?
      3) How or where do I send this in to get a new valve, if that's even worth it or should I just find a new head?
      4) What precautions to take to eliminate the possibility of this happening again?

      Any advice, help, guidance is much appreciated. Thank you.
      Those shoes do indeed look a bit more appropriate.

      1) That the HG was definitely blown? Or am I misunderstanding this question? Aside from the fact that they need to be cleaned up, I don't see anything that looks like a problem with the cylinders.
      2) Possible causes include, but are not necessarily limited to: burning lean, running 87 octane, or some combination of those two.
      3) I'm sure you could take this to any shop that deals in Volvos. I have a head I might be willing to part with if you'd rather just get a different one, but it's done like 270k so that might not be ideal. N heads with reasonable miles are getting hard to find, so a rebuild might be your best bet here.
      4) Use only 91 octane*. I suppose you could also install an AFR gauge if you really wanted to. Also check/replace the MAF and O2 sensors as needed. Robert/Rspi/Robert DIY also speculates that this can be an issue in cars that are never driven hard. It took us about 4 years to get enough confidence in our V70 to take it over 4,000 RPM (we had no idea the magnitude of what we'd gotten ourselves into and just how good these cars are when we bought it), and it does seem to be a bit happier now that we take it up to around 5,500 a few times a month.


      *93/94 or whatever you might have in your area will work, too, but our experience indicates that 93 octane delivers worse fuel economy than 91. Our local Sunoco that used to sell 91 re-franchised as a Mobil, so we usually have to mix our own 91 by first filling 1/3 tank of 87 and then 2/3 tank of 93 unless we are on a trip somewhere where there is a Sunoco or are in a state that classifies 93 as race fuel or has it in a different tax bracket for whatever reason. The order of filling is important to ensure the gas gets mixed up. We used to put in 50/50 89 and 93 expecting that the gas would mix itself as we drove around, but that, rather surprisingly, seems to not be the case given that we used to get tanks where the fuel consumption would either go up or down throughout the tank depending on how we filled it before we perfected our technique.

    24. #22
      Member Wayne T5's Avatar
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      At least you figured out what was causing the poor compression. I agree with the JaredR on the potential causes. Since you have it all apart you may want to go with a remanufactured head. Pretty sure there is a preferred place that folks on here or Volvospeed use, just not sure where that is. You may also want to check someplace near where you live that has experience with these or other euro motors.

      There may be other things you should address while you're in there but I'm just not sure what those items would be. Great progress!
      Past Volvos: '94 854, '99 S70 T5 SE, '99 S70 GLT, '04 S60RM, '12 S60 T5, '13 S60 T5, '15 S60 RD
      Present Garage: '16 MX5 Club, '95 854 T-5R, '05 V70RGT, '15.5 XC60 T6, '16 V60 P*

    25. #23
      Quote Originally Posted by JaredR View Post
      Those shoes do indeed look a bit more appropriate.

      1) That the HG was definitely blown? Or am I misunderstanding this question? Aside from the fact that they need to be cleaned up, I don't see anything that looks like a problem with the cylinders.
      2) Possible causes include, but are not necessarily limited to: burning lean, running 87 octane, or some combination of those two.
      3) I'm sure you could take this to any shop that deals in Volvos. I have a head I might be willing to part with if you'd rather just get a different one, but it's done like 270k so that might not be ideal. N heads with reasonable miles are getting hard to find, so a rebuild might be your best bet here.
      4) Use only 91 octane*. I suppose you could also install an AFR gauge if you really wanted to. Also check/replace the MAF and O2 sensors as needed. Robert/Rspi/Robert DIY also speculates that this can be an issue in cars that are never driven hard. It took us about 4 years to get enough confidence in our V70 to take it over 4,000 RPM (we had no idea the magnitude of what we'd gotten ourselves into and just how good these cars are when we bought it), and it does seem to be a bit happier now that we take it up to around 5,500 a few times a month.


      *93/94 or whatever you might have in your area will work, too, but our experience indicates that 93 octane delivers worse fuel economy than 91. Our local Sunoco that used to sell 91 re-franchised as a Mobil, so we usually have to mix our own 91 by first filling 1/3 tank of 87 and then 2/3 tank of 93 unless we are on a trip somewhere where there is a Sunoco or are in a state that classifies 93 as race fuel or has it in a different tax bracket for whatever reason. The order of filling is important to ensure the gas gets mixed up. We used to put in 50/50 89 and 93 expecting that the gas would mix itself as we drove around, but that, rather surprisingly, seems to not be the case given that we used to get tanks where the fuel consumption would either go up or down throughout the tank depending on how we filled it before we perfected our technique.
      Wow, that's nuts. I never thought about trying some experimenting with the fuel grade. But ever since I've owned this vehicle, I've always been anal about filling up with Chevron 93. Don't ask me why, but that's just what I've always used. So are you thinking by looking at the deposits from the exhaust valves that I have an AFR issue? And cleaning our MAF, replacing 02 sensors, and using 91 instead would be better?

      I appreciate the offer on the head but as you already inferred, that's a big mileage difference than my vehicle's 130k to date.

      Quote Originally Posted by Wayne T5 View Post
      At least you figured out what was causing the poor compression. I agree with the JaredR on the potential causes. Since you have it all apart you may want to go with a remanufactured head. Pretty sure there is a preferred place that folks on here or Volvospeed use, just not sure where that is. You may also want to check someplace near where you live that has experience with these or other euro motors.

      There may be other things you should address while you're in there but I'm just not sure what those items would be. Great progress!
      Would there be any other causes though? I took the head to a machinist someone locally recommended. He seemed pretty honest, knew what he was doing, and looking at all the shiny heads in the shop gave me a little confidence to go with him. I say this because his price was really cheap. Maybe you guys can chime in on what this should cost but he is charging me $160 to clean the head and do the job. I will supply him with the 1 replacement valve that was burned along with the valve seals and he will do the rest. He tested it really quick to see if it was badly warped and he said it wasn't that bad so I should be okay. I asked if any of the other valves needed replacing and he said no, just a good cleaning. Do you guys think that's a good deal? He actually dropped it down to $140 since he found out my uncle has a used car/mechanic shop.

      On another note, hopefully when I get this head back all shiny and ready to go, in conjunction with the new parts I purchased for installation (head gasket kit, new pcv kit, new serpentine belt, timing belt, water pump, hardware, etc), what's to ensure this won't happen again in the near future? That's what really concerns me...
      2004 Volvo S60R - Stuff. IPD Elevate Snabb.
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    26. #24
      Member JaredR's Avatar
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      The deposits combined with the burnt valve lead me to think that this car has/had a fuel and/or AFR issue at some point in its life.

    27. #25
      Quote Originally Posted by JaredR View Post
      The deposits combined with the burnt valve lead me to think that this car has/had a fuel and/or AFR issue at some point in its life.
      Is there a way to check if I have an AFR issue without installing a guage? Maybe if I hook up my OBD scanner, it can read the live data. Not sure if mine has that functionality.

      And maybe I need to switch from 93 to 91 grade fuel if that's what's better for our cars.

      Lastly, I got the head back all shiny with new valve seals and the replaced burnt valve so time to gradually put it back together. Since I need a new exhaust mani due to the old one being cracked, do you guys suggest a japanifold or the stock 850R mani? I've read it's just a matter of sound preference and not really any performance difference.

      Anything else I should replace/upgrade since everything's outta the way? I'm gonna check and replave vacuum lines along with new belts, pcv reservoir, tensioners, and water pump.

      I appreciate the help!

    28. #26
      Member JaredR's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nick_rabbo View Post
      Is there a way to check if I have an AFR issue without installing a guage? Maybe if I hook up my OBD scanner, it can read the live data. Not sure if mine has that functionality.

      And maybe I need to switch from 93 to 91 grade fuel if that's what's better for our cars.

      Lastly, I got the head back all shiny with new valve seals and the replaced burnt valve so time to gradually put it back together. Since I need a new exhaust mani due to the old one being cracked, do you guys suggest a japanifold or the stock 850R mani? I've read it's just a matter of sound preference and not really any performance difference.

      Anything else I should replace/upgrade since everything's outta the way? I'm gonna check and replave vacuum lines along with new belts, pcv reservoir, tensioners, and water pump.

      I appreciate the help!
      Glad you are getting closer! But no pictures of this wonderful shiny head?

      This might help with your AFR questions: http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthr...newb-questions


      The Japanifold is definitely an upgrade over the regular 850 manifold. The one you are thinking of that some people don't like the sound of is the "R" manifold from the P2s (I put "R" in quotes because it was used on a lot of the later P2s, not just the Rs). Most people think that the "R" manifold flows better than the Japanifold, but there are some people that think it is as good and some even think it is better. I've not seen anyone with proof either way. But there is no doubt that the stock manifold does not flow as well.

      Sounds like you have most of the wear items covered but I'd also check the turbo while you're in there and proceed proceed as needed if you find excessive shaft play. I would be tempted to upgrade to a 16T and/or an angle flange setup if you find any issues (you should be able to do one/both without a remap).

    29. #27
      Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      JaredR is correct that the "R" manifold is just the 2004 and up 5 cylinder turbo manifold.

      Your burned valve could also be from an oil leak from the valve stem seal. You can overhaul the head or put on a new one.
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    30. #28
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      Upon Reassemebly.
      Make sure to buy and use Genuine Volvo Pink Anerobic Sealer for the Head Cam cover... accept no substitutes.

      I have an original 850R manifold if interested. In Good condition (I installed a Japanifold when doing my headjob) (cheap + shipping)

    31. #29
      Quote Originally Posted by JaredR View Post
      Glad you are getting closer! But no pictures of this wonderful shiny head?
      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      JaredR is correct that the "R" manifold is just the 2004 and up 5 cylinder turbo manifold.

      Your burned valve could also be from an oil leak from the valve stem seal. You can overhaul the head or put on a new one.
      Here's the head after it got redone. Replaced the burnt exhaust valve, put new valve seals, and all cleaned up. Also, got an R manifold to put on instead of the stock 850r mani that was cracked. Since everything is apart, I figured I should just upgrade the turbo since it's so accessible. I'm really leaning towards a 19t. Do you guys recommend getting a new 19t like the spool control from ARD or should I just use my 15g and convert that to a 19t? Is there a difference besides saving a couple hundred bucks?











      2004 Volvo S60R - Stuff. IPD Elevate Snabb.
      1997 Volvo 850R - All original, all stock, all beautiful.

    32. #30
      If your car is still an automatic, you aren't going to get as much benefit from a bigger turbo as you would if you had a stick. Also, the bigger the turbo up from stock, the more likely you are to bend a rod, especially on that high-mileage bottom end.

      And even then, the big turbo is mostly just bragging rights without the supporting upgrades to go with it. With an automatic transmission, regular street tires and no limited slip, it's hard to put all the extra power down anyway.

    33. #31
      Quote Originally Posted by fivealive View Post
      If your car is still an automatic, you aren't going to get as much benefit from a bigger turbo as you would if you had a stick. Also, the bigger the turbo up from stock, the more likely you are to bend a rod, especially on that high-mileage bottom end.

      And even then, the big turbo is mostly just bragging rights without the supporting upgrades to go with it. With an automatic transmission, regular street tires and no limited slip, it's hard to put all the extra power down anyway.
      For sure, makes sense. I definitely have plans to manual swap so that should take care of that. And plans for supporting mods as well. I'm eyeing an IPD exhaust and downpipe setup. I also have new snabb fresh air pipe and intercooler waiting in a box. Other than that, I'll be getting an ARD tune so I don't think a bent rod should be a concern with proper tuning as many people run 19ts just fine with stock internal.

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    34. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by nick_rabbo View Post
      Here's the head after it got redone. Replaced the burnt exhaust valve, put new valve seals, and all cleaned up. Also, got an R manifold to put on instead of the stock 850r mani that was cracked. Since everything is apart, I figured I should just upgrade the turbo since it's so accessible. I'm really leaning towards a 19t. Do you guys recommend getting a new 19t like the spool control from ARD or should I just use my 15g and convert that to a 19t? Is there a difference besides saving a couple hundred bucks?













      Looks good for a fresh head and parts to re assemble.

      Regarding the 19t -

      15G to 19T might require a new down pipe setup for your 850. New down pipe will be a performance pipe and will then need a new Converter = then a new cat back - Prepare.. Research Angle flange vs Flat flange turbo.

      Improve the turbo and efficiency - Better prepare to upgrade your Fueling And ECU Injectors and air. next prepare to upgrade your Intake system + Intercooler + Rip system


      Also research - Ive read enough about Bent rods on 850's and P80s that personally staying away from a 19T .. 15G to a 16T is a good move=- even to a more rare 18T is a good move too. By that point anyhow - you will be boosting enough to squeal tires everywhere- the 19 can be overkill without further drivetrain mods.

      Somewhere i found and read from Lucky WITH ARD had a nice write up about P80's being 4.3 or 4.4 ECU and fueling systems jsut cant control boost and fuel well enough like a later ME7 Car. Later ME7 cars can control and keep things together better vs bent rods and or burned pistons. that could be likely with the early fuel setups.


      How deep down this hole do you want to go.
      I would personally fix what you got - and grow from there. once you know the engine is back solid and in good health.

    35. #33
      Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      Talk to Aaron at Beust. You can do a coil on plug conversion that will give the ecu individual control over cylinder ignition. He's done some of the nicest and well laid out tuned cars as well.


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      1999 V70 T5 - Emerald/Graphite M56H - 119k - The Garage Queen
      1999 V70 T5 - Pewter/Graphite AW42 - 241k - The Daily
      1993 945 NA -Silver Metallic/Black - 181k - Wagon Rescue Project
      1995 945 Turbo - 425k, 1994 945 Turbo - 234k, 1993 945 Turbo - 318k

    36. #34
      Member JaredR's Avatar
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      I would go with a 16T with angle flange DP and a Beust tune with COP conversion. That setup should pose zero risk to your engine. 18T would probably be fine, too, but I agree that you are going to hit the point of diminishing returns really fast with an automatic.

      There was a time when ARD was cool but today is no longer that time. Look around a bit and you'll find plenty of stories.

    37. #35
      Ask Robert at ARD about installing a 19t on a stock bottom end. Lot of people bend rods because the boost comes on too strong.

      I think there are some ways to manage it, a different compressor wheel can help, but still... if you are headed that direction, I would just rebuild the bottom end while the rest of the motor is apart.

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