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    1. #36
      Quote Originally Posted by JaredR View Post
      Glad you are getting closer! But no pictures of this wonderful shiny head?

      This might help with your AFR questions: http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthr...newb-questions


      The Japanifold is definitely an upgrade over the regular 850 manifold. The one you are thinking of that some people don't like the sound of is the "R" manifold from the P2s (I put "R" in quotes because it was used on a lot of the later P2s, not just the Rs). Most people think that the "R" manifold flows better than the Japanifold, but there are some people that think it is as good and some even think it is better. I've not seen anyone with proof either way. But there is no doubt that the stock manifold does not flow as well.

      Sounds like you have most of the wear items covered but I'd also check the turbo while you're in there and proceed proceed as needed if you find excessive shaft play. I would be tempted to upgrade to a 16T and/or an angle flange setup if you find any issues (you should be able to do one/both without a remap).
      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      JaredR is correct that the "R" manifold is just the 2004 and up 5 cylinder turbo manifold.

      Your burned valve could also be from an oil leak from the valve stem seal. You can overhaul the head or put on a new one.
      Quote Originally Posted by JEDDUH01 View Post
      Looks good for a fresh head and parts to re assemble.

      Regarding the 19t -

      15G to 19T might require a new down pipe setup for your 850. New down pipe will be a performance pipe and will then need a new Converter = then a new cat back - Prepare.. Research Angle flange vs Flat flange turbo.

      Improve the turbo and efficiency - Better prepare to upgrade your Fueling And ECU Injectors and air. next prepare to upgrade your Intake system + Intercooler + Rip system


      Also research - Ive read enough about Bent rods on 850's and P80s that personally staying away from a 19T .. 15G to a 16T is a good move=- even to a more rare 18T is a good move too. By that point anyhow - you will be boosting enough to squeal tires everywhere- the 19 can be overkill without further drivetrain mods.

      Somewhere i found and read from Lucky WITH ARD had a nice write up about P80's being 4.3 or 4.4 ECU and fueling systems jsut cant control boost and fuel well enough like a later ME7 Car. Later ME7 cars can control and keep things together better vs bent rods and or burned pistons. that could be likely with the early fuel setups.


      How deep down this hole do you want to go.
      I would personally fix what you got - and grow from there. once you know the engine is back solid and in good health.
      I mean I was planning on doing all these mods. Let me rephrase. My 850r is not my daily driver so I can get parts and install them while it's sitting in the driveway. I have the FMIC, fresh air pipe, R manifold already and since the head is off, I was planning on just getting a different turbo to install along with a downpipe, exhaust, and tune. But you're saying I should just probably put everything back to together and ensure everything is working well before I start modifying. That makes sense. My only question is, when eventually getting a new turbo and other parts, would it be difficult to install once everything is put back together (the head, exhaust mani, etc)?

      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      Talk to Aaron at Beust. You can do a coil on plug conversion that will give the ecu individual control over cylinder ignition. He's done some of the nicest and well laid out tuned cars as well.


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      Thanks, I'll look into this.

      Quote Originally Posted by JaredR View Post
      I would go with a 16T with angle flange DP and a Beust tune with COP conversion. That setup should pose zero risk to your engine. 18T would probably be fine, too, but I agree that you are going to hit the point of diminishing returns really fast with an automatic.

      There was a time when ARD was cool but today is no longer that time. Look around a bit and you'll find plenty of stories.
      I really want a manual swap but not sure when that's going to happen. So I guess with the automatic for now, you would suggest the 16t as you mentioned? What type of hp can I expect with what you mentioned, dp, exhaust, intercooler, fresh air pipe, RIP?

      Quote Originally Posted by fivealive View Post
      Ask Robert at ARD about installing a 19t on a stock bottom end. Lot of people bend rods because the boost comes on too strong.

      I think there are some ways to manage it, a different compressor wheel can help, but still... if you are headed that direction, I would just rebuild the bottom end while the rest of the motor is apart.
      I did ask ARD about this, this was their response: "As for 19T, it gets a bit of an unfair label as harmful when in fact we run them quite commonly with good results. Some of that came from folks originally using that turbo with improper tuning back in the day before the custom tuning options that are available now were out there. Recall the 19T was an OEM turbo equipped to 99-00 R models....That's what we run here on a number of cars with stock bottom ends. Additionally we don't have to take it to the absolute limit. Nothing wrong with a margin of safety "
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    3. #37
      For future reference, remove/install the head, exhaust manifold and turbo as one piece. It's much easier on the bench and faster too.
      New website >>> http://www.yother.com

    4. #38
      Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      19t had a weird compressor map because it has funky geometry. High flow comes on quite early. That's the issue.

      As to a 16t with full supporting mods, 280 would be realistic. You're still going to be limited by air temperature and fueling. Only so much you can get out of the 2.3 engine with the shorter stroke of the older cars.


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    6. #39
      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      19t had a weird compressor map because it has funky geometry. High flow comes on quite early. That's the issue.

      As to a 16t with full supporting mods, 280 would be realistic. You're still going to be limited by air temperature and fueling. Only so much you can get out of the 2.3 engine with the shorter stroke of the older cars.


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      280. Even with better injectors and FMIC, snabb pipe, NA throttle body and plate, and exhaust?

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    7. #40
      Junior Member fivealive's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nick_rabbo View Post
      Recall the 19T was an OEM turbo equipped to 99-00 R models....
      Well, for what it's worth Volvo also put a very different motor in. Up through 98 it was the N motor. In 99 they switched to first-gen RN ("Refined N", has nothing to do with "R" model cars) and they had different internals (significantly lighter) which better handled the increased power of the 19t. Even then, bent rods were common enough, and in 2002 we got the second generation RN whiteblock, with further upgrades and stronger rods.

      Putting a 19t on a pre-99 motor is asking for trouble. You won't necessarily get into trouble, but you're asking for it.
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    8. #41
      Quote Originally Posted by fivealive View Post
      Well, for what it's worth Volvo also put a very different motor in. Up through 98 it was the N motor. In 99 they switched to first-gen RN ("Refined N", has nothing to do with "R" model cars) and they had different internals (significantly lighter) which better handled the increased power of the 19t. Even then, bent rods were common enough, and in 2002 we got the second generation RN whiteblock, with further upgrades and stronger rods.

      Putting a 19t on a pre-99 motor is asking for trouble. You won't necessarily get into trouble, but you're asking for it.
      That makes sense, thank you for the clarification. So do you guys suggest going with the 16t for an upgrade?

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    9. #42
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      " But you're saying I should just probably put everything back to together and ensure everything is working well before I start modifying "

      One of the basic rules of mechanics- Fix the actual problem first - then move to the next change.

    10. #43
      Quote Originally Posted by JEDDUH01 View Post
      Later ME7 cars can control and keep things together better vs bent rods and or burned pistons. that could be likely with the early fuel setups.

      2002 and newer RN block got better rods.

      http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic...-n-whiteblock/

    11. #44
      So I guess it's 16t or an 18t. I would love a manual swap eventually so maybe an 18t would be better to get from now, instead of putting a 16t in and then upgrading again to an 18t.

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    12. #45
      Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      16T. Itll make all the power your automatic will handle happily and maybe more with the supporting mods. Once you manual swap, a 18t cold side could be retrofitted if you cant find a complete 18t. With the 16t and a tune youre going to get a car that is stupid quick in the "useable" range. On my old s70 I had a 16t with all the same upgrades and its claim to fame was 35-80 in 3.9 seconds from a coast and then flooring it. Thats including the turbo spool time. atmosphere to steady 15 psi in 1.3 seconds if i remember correctly. Throttle response and freeway merging power was what I wanted and used the most. It was super jumpy in 1st too when you wanted it, there was no power being left behind.
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    13. #46
      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      16T. Itll make all the power your automatic will handle happily and maybe more with the supporting mods. Once you manual swap, a 18t cold side could be retrofitted if you cant find a complete 18t. With the 16t and a tune youre going to get a car that is stupid quick in the "useable" range. On my old s70 I had a 16t with all the same upgrades and its claim to fame was 35-80 in 3.9 seconds from a coast and then flooring it. Thats including the turbo spool time. atmosphere to steady 15 psi in 1.3 seconds if i remember correctly. Throttle response and freeway merging power was what I wanted and used the most. It was super jumpy in 1st too when you wanted it, there was no power being left behind.
      Sounds delicious lol, thank you for the info. Does anyone have a 16t to sell me?
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    14. #47
      Also, does IPD make the full exhaust for an angled turbo? I only see straight flange on their site.

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    15. #48
      Junior Member fivealive's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nick_rabbo View Post
      Also, does IPD make the full exhaust for an angled turbo? I only see straight flange on their site.

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      Yes. They just must not have it in stock right now. They get those exhausts in batches, and probably sold out of the angle flange. You could call them and they could probably tell you when they'll get more new ones.
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    16. #49
      Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nick_rabbo View Post
      Sounds delicious lol, thank you for the info. Does anyone have a 16t to sell me?
      I've got one that needs a rebuild id sell cheap. Was excellent on my s70 just had a flat spot in the journal bearing. Cheap to have a shop rebuild it.


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    17. #50
      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      I've got one that needs a rebuild id sell cheap. Was excellent on my s70 just had a flat spot in the journal bearing. Cheap to have a shop rebuild it.


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      Never rebuilt a turbo. So would a shop know what to do with it or does it have to be a specialized place? I'm interested. Please PM your price and pics if you have any. Thanks!

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    18. #51
      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      I've got one that needs a rebuild id sell cheap. Was excellent on my s70 just had a flat spot in the journal bearing. Cheap to have a shop rebuild it.


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      If I could squeeze some more power with an 18t instead of a 16t, why wouldn't I just wait to find an 18t instead? From what I read, it appears the 18t would be a better choice for more power before having ro swap trannys and build engine internals. Is this correct?

      I know it's been discussed a million times on the forums already comparing a 16t to a 18t with full mods, but to be honest, it still leaves a person confused. Can we just say with an 18t, I can expect about an extra 20whp similar to the increase in the power shown on the stock v70rs they came in from the factory???
      Quote Originally Posted by nick_rabbo View Post
      That makes sense, thank you for the clarification. So do you guys suggest going with the 16t for an upgrade?

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    19. #52
      Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      Do you want a car that is a "dyno queen", defined by bragging rights numbers or one with superior drivability? Or both?

      The 16t vs 18t debate really boils down to the fact that they very nearly perform the same, with a hair more top end (50 cfm at 165,000 rpm) on the 18t at the expense of a hair more spool time (.25 seconds slower on the low end). Your limiting factor will be intake temperatures even with an upgraded intercooler and then the ability of the engine management to safely adjust fuel/timing since you're limited by the coil/cap/rotor/distributer type ignition.
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    20. #53
      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      Do you want a car that is a "dyno queen", defined by bragging rights numbers or one with superior drivability? Or both?

      The 16t vs 18t debate really boils down to the fact that they very nearly perform the same, with a hair more top end (50 cfm at 165,000 rpm) on the 18t at the expense of a hair more spool time (.25 seconds slower on the low end). Your limiting factor will be intake temperatures even with an upgraded intercooler and then the ability of the engine management to safely adjust fuel/timing since you're limited by the coil/cap/rotor/distributer type ignition.
      Superior driveability yes but if they're both driveabe, why not get the one with more power? Unless you're saying that the 18t is less driveable?

      As for the intake temperatures, I have the Snabb FMIC waiting to ger installed along with the turbo air pipe. NA TB/plate and RIP are on the agenda next.

      I also just ordered the OBX exhaust / Dp to match up to the R manifold I recently picked up. It'll be a flanged setup with either turbo I end up choosing.

      Also, gonna upgrade the injectors along with the tune.

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    21. #54
      Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nick_rabbo View Post
      Superior driveability yes but if they're both driveabe, why not get the one with more power? Unless you're saying that the 18t is less driveable?

      As for the intake temperatures, I have the Snabb FMIC waiting to ger installed along with the turbo air pipe. NA TB/plate and RIP are on the agenda next.

      I also just ordered the OBX exhaust / Dp to match up to the R manifold I recently picked up. It'll be a flanged setup with either turbo I end up choosing.

      Also, gonna upgrade the injectors along with the tune.

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      K24. Cheaper than 18t, well known, reliable. Bolts on. Easy to find.
      1999 V70 T5 - Emerald/Graphite M56H - 119k - The Garage Queen
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    22. #55
      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      K24. Cheaper than 18t, well known, reliable. Bolts on. Easy to find.
      Isn't there some modification to the oil lines or something? Not sure how drastic those changes are.

      Also, if they're cheaper, reliable, and still provide plenty of power, I wonder why more people don't run them.

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    23. #56
      Well, I decided to go with an angled flange 16t for now that I found local. Seemed like decent condition, very minimal shaft play side to side. No play in and out. Down the line when I do the manual swap, I can upgrade to a larger turbo.

      Here are some pictures:









      Inside the housing saw some buildup but I guess that's normal.



      And on the exhaust side, noticed these little cracks but wasn't sure if they made a difference or not.





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    24. #57
      Would you guys recommend I do anything to the turbo before putting it in? Like get the adjustable kinugawa actuator or a different CBV? I'm asking because from what I know, the 16t can handle up to 17psi. So can the current actuator and cbv already on it handle the 17psi when I eventually get the tune? Or maybe even go the Forge blow off valve instead??? Thanks comrades.
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    25. #58
      Undo the three bolts and make sure the diaphragm is not torn and run it as-is.

      You'll need an angle downpipe.

    26. #59
      Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
      Undo the three bolts and make sure the diaphragm is not torn and run it as-is.

      You'll need an angle downpipe.
      Cool beans, I'll do that and check. Also, is there a point to the Forge blow off valve or is it simply for the sound?

      And yes, downpipe is on the way :0)

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    27. #60
      Sound only, and if you use a BOV on a stock M4.3/M4.4 system, you'll have bad idle and engine will almost stall every time you left off.

    28. #61
      Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      Dont use a blow off valve. Volvos meter air before the turbo the ecu is expecting it to be there.
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    29. #62
      Member JaredR's Avatar
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      My first 850R had boost leaks everywhere and it got 15 mpg highway. Did nothing to that engine except fix the boost leaks and put it in a different car and now it gets 22 around town. Granted that's a little different from a BOV, but it goes to show what happens when you start letting that air leave the system.

    30. #63
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      Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
      Sound only, and if you use a BOV on a stock M4.3/M4.4 system, you'll have bad idle and engine will almost stall every time you left off.
      You're 100% wrong. I've been using BOVs on my 850s for the past 9 years without any issues. A recirculating BOV would be the best option if you are that concerned about unmetered air. The car runs rich for a second. The stock CBV diaphragm does not hold up at high boost levels.
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    31. #64


      Sure, my car is 100% wrong.

    32. #65
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      Quote Originally Posted by Oreo931 View Post
      You're 100% wrong. I've been using BOVs on my 850s for the past 9 years without any issues. A recirculating BOV would be the best option if you are that concerned about unmetered air. The car runs rich for a second. The stock CBV diaphragm does not hold up at high boost levels.
      Your car seems like it breaks all the "rules" somehow.

    33. #66
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      Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
      [IMG]http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe/sold/bov/IMG_0210.JPG

      Sure, my car is 100% wrong.
      The first problem is that you're using a knockoff TurboXS bov. The second problem is that type of BOV is prone to leaking vacuum, just like you described, unless it is shimmed correctly. In fact, I used to have that exact same BOV (but genuine) and got rid of it because of surging, etc. I've had success with tons of other BOVS, including HKS SSQV, Forge, Turbosmart, and others.
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    34. #67
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      Quote Originally Posted by JaredR View Post
      Your car seems like it breaks all the "rules" somehow.
      I'm confused...sarcasm?
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    35. #68
      Is there a trick to dislodging the factory downpipe from the turbo? This thing is stuck.

      Ignore the bolts that I put back on:


      Also, is there a certain size diameter to these vacuum lines? I would like to replace them since they seem very brittle at this stage. Would you guys recommend replacing anything additional to the 3 lines that come off the boost controller?


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    36. #69
      I'm thinking they're 5mm...

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    37. #70
      Member JaredR's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Oreo931 View Post
      I'm confused...sarcasm?
      No it's more like the way your car is set up is not possible according to some people.

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