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    1. #1
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      Warm/hot starting problem

      Troops,

      2005 2.5T in my signature.

      Occasionally the engine fires, runs for a second or two and then dies necessitating another attempt but this time with a bit of throttle. Doesn't happen all the time but when it does the engine is warm, say parked up for half an hour after a run.

      Could be a million things I suppose but any pointers?
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

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    3. #2
      Member Antherzoll's Avatar
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      I had a similar issue with leaking injectors.


      http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthr...Pressure-Issue
      Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
      Last edited by Antherzoll; 01-18-2017 at 08:42 AM.
      2005 XC70 Crystal Green | Hilton | 16T | 110k mi

    4. #3
      Member wagonfan00's Avatar
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      I was gonna go for a throttle body cleaning. Maybe try starting it once with the MAF unplugged?....


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      Current: 2002 V70 Base N/A M56 161k (Straight pipe, short shift kit) 1988 745T AW-71L 249k (BC coilovers, Hydras, eBay MBC @13psi, 2.5" Catless exhaust **for sale**)
      Past: 2008 Mini Cooper S Clubman R55 Getrag 6 Speed (Stock) 1997 855 T5 Auto 300k
      IG: psychocross_v70

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    6. #4
      Junior Member XDS2SW's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by rich1068 View Post
      Troops,

      2005 2.5T in my signature.

      Occasionally the engine fires, runs for a second or two and then dies necessitating another attempt but this time with a bit of throttle. Doesn't happen all the time but when it does the engine is warm, say parked up for half an hour after a run.

      Could be a million things I suppose but any pointers?
      My 2004 had a very similar issue that ended up being a bad MAF. Tried cleaning the original but it requires replacement.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      2004 S60R Flash Green Atacama M66
      2004 V70 2.5T
      1997 S90

    7. #5
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by wagonfan00 View Post
      I was gonna go for a throttle body cleaning. Maybe try starting it once with the MAF unplugged?....


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      Quote Originally Posted by XDS2SW View Post
      My 2004 had a very similar issue that ended up being a bad MAF. Tried cleaning the original but it requires replacement.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Even with my limited spannering skills throttle body had crossed my mind. I can look at the MAF too.

      Quote Originally Posted by Antherzoll View Post
      I had a similar issue with leaking injectors.


      http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthr...Pressure-Issue
      Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
      Much appreciated.

      Cheers guys. I'll look into these suggestions.
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    8. #6
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      ...but still haven't. And now it occasionally cuts out in traffic. This means that now my wife point blank refuses to take it anywhere (no bad thing ). Anyhoo, it's in for a service and MOT next week. I'll get my mechanic to investigate because in all honesty I have not got the time. But I will annoy him by suggesting what was said on here...
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    9. #7
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      Update on this.

      I had the service done and got the guy to look at the throttle body. A bit of a (separate) issue with the battery led me to believe the problem was solved but I'm now told that warm/hot starts are problematic again and after a few minutes tickover in a car park the engine just died. So I'm looking at the MAF now. Hoping it's not something more £££.
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    10. #8
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      Bought some cleaner so I'm hoping to tackle the MAF today or tomorrow but just a thought, if this is a fuel problem could it possibly be the fuel filter? This year I'm due fuel filter and timing/auxiliary belts as per the service book. Anyone?
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    11. #9
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      My, my. Those 5 pointed security Torx bits are a PITA aren't they?
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    12. #10
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      MAF and throttle body done. We'll just have to see if that cures it. The throttle body really needed it.
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    13. #11
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      Richard and his one man thread here.

      Still not 100%. Occasional warm/hot starting trouble again (needs a bit of throttle to get it going), occasional stalling if left idling. Also I've had P2177 System Too Lean Off Idle Bank 1 on the generic scanner. Accompanied by the orange emissions light this occurs after the car has had trouble starting and I've had to use some throttle. I can clear the code and not see it again for a few days.

      I should stress that other than this the car is flying. It runs really well and took me over The Snake to Manchester to pick up my new wheels with no drama at all. The throttle body has had a good clean and I've used contact cleaner on the MAF but I'm not sure what good that did. I'm going to check hoses/air filter but in my mind I'm still thinking it's MAF related. But I don't know if that's just because it's easy (though expensive) to replace.

      Anyone?
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    14. #12
      contact cleaner may leave residue.
      CRC makes a MAF specific cleaner.
      i tried it on ours with absolutely no change in MAF readins in VIDA.

      My wife experienced warm start issue two weeks ago, and others here have told me that the MAF readins at idle looked low.
      Mine hovers around 11.5kg/h at idle. I suspect I'll be replacing it.
      I just slotted the stupid 5 point screws and replaced them with some stainless phillips so I can clean the MAF when I do filter changes and not have to keep track of another set of specialty bits.

    15. #13
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      Googling seemed to suggest contact cleaner was the way to go but tbh I really couldn't see how it was going to make any difference and it didn't http://www.halfords.com/motoring/eng...-cleaner-400ml

      It seems obvious to avoid the cheap as chips eBay generic MAFs if I do go down that route but the Bosch ones aren't cheap. This one is more reasonably priced but I'm still suspicious even though they appear to be based in the UK.
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    16. #14
      that price doesn't seem outlandish.

      Rockauto has Bosch MAFs for $108US, which I suspect is pretty close to 95GBP.
      I'll probably regret it, but someone has to be the guinea pig.
      THere's $55 Walker MAF on rockauto as well. At least I can return it and buy the bosch if it fully sucks.
      A cheap MAF that doesn't suck would be great for everyone.

    17. #15
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      Hmm. I was thinking that Bosch MAF I linked to looked suspiciously cheap. Especially as my local Euro Car Parts has them for £250.
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    18. #16
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      ...turns out I was looking at the wrong one. Different part number. The Bosch unit for mine is in fact £250 Trying a Haas one.
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    19. #17
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      Btw, can anyone confirm voltage on a healthy V70 battery?
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    20. #18
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      Back again!

      So I fitted the Haas MAF and changed the air filter. The car runs well and hasn't stalled, run poorly or failed to start even though it's a warm day. I've even had it washed and it ticked over nicely the entire time. BUT... I get Engine System Service Required and P0102 P2177 codes every time I start it. I can clear the codes, the car starts fine and then it throws them again at the next start. AARRGGHHHH!





      Please? Anyone?
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    21. #19
      Member wagonfan00's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by rich1068 View Post
      Back again!

      So I fitted the Haas MAF and changed the air filter. The car runs well and hasn't stalled, run poorly or failed to start even though it's a warm day. I've even had it washed and it ticked over nicely the entire time. BUT... I get Engine System Service Required and P0102 P2177 codes every time I start it. I can clear the codes, the car starts fine and then it throws them again at the next start. AARRGGHHHH!





      Please? Anyone?
      I know the redblocks are silly picky about using the OEM AMM (MAF) and the Denso NA P2 NA cars require me to buy the Denso MAF. You might need to spend the crazy amount of money


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Current: 2002 V70 Base N/A M56 161k (Straight pipe, short shift kit) 1988 745T AW-71L 249k (BC coilovers, Hydras, eBay MBC @13psi, 2.5" Catless exhaust **for sale**)
      Past: 2008 Mini Cooper S Clubman R55 Getrag 6 Speed (Stock) 1997 855 T5 Auto 300k
      IG: psychocross_v70

    22. #20
      you'd really need VIDA to know for sure, or some other diagnostic box that can read the MAF flow.

      but a lean condition could very well be generated by the MAF not reading correctly.
      That or you have unmetered air in the system. You're sure there are no intake leaks between turbo and MAF?

    23. #21
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by wagonfan00 View Post
      You might need to spend the crazy amount of money
      If I go la la la and put my fingers in my ears that thought might go away

      Quote Originally Posted by nsjames View Post
      you'd really need VIDA to know for sure, or some other diagnostic box that can read the MAF flow.

      but a lean condition could very well be generated by the MAF not reading correctly.
      That or you have unmetered air in the system. You're sure there are no intake leaks between turbo and MAF?
      The reader I've got does have more bells and whistles. It may even do this. And I'm going to check for leaks again but I don't think so.

      I'm going to put the old MAF back on and see which (if any) codes I get back. If I just go back to poor running but no codes then I guess the Haas one was false economy. If I get my money back on that one I'm near a Volvo breakers so I might try a second hand one in the interim.
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    24. #22
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      Right then. An update of sorts.

      The Haas MAF went back and the car stopped throwing the P0102 code. Lesson learned. I'm afraid boys and girls your MAF choices appear to be Bosch or Bosch. I put my MAF back on then a second hand one. No change. The problem isn't the MAF. Talking to the guy from the Volvo breakers he said if it's throwing the P2177 code it sounds like the O2 sensor so I've picked up a used one of those too. Fitting is a bit beyond me atm so I'll get that done this week.

      Two steps forward, one step back I think. The car still isn't fixed but at least I'm confident it's not the £300 MAF.
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    25. #23
      interesting.

      can your scanner read the O2 sensor voltage directly? It should oscillate up and down as the ECU corrects fuel in closed loop.

      but it should not affect your starting issue, as that's all open loop.

      your starting issue and lean off idle code really make me think that you have a vacuum leak somewhere allowing unmetered air into the manifold.
      It starts with a touch of throttle because you're adding more fuel to compensate for the lean condition.
      Do you have a propane torch? Start it and let it idle. Take unlit propane torch and trace all the vacuum lines and the intake manifold. Obviously you're going to want to do this outside, and don't be a moron.
      When the idle speed changes noticeably, you've found your leak.
      Or have someone smoke test the system.

    26. #24
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nsjames View Post
      don't be a moron
      Easier said than done I'm afraid.

      I'll check the scanner but unfortunately today and the next few days I don't have access to the car. It's incredibly frustrating only being able to give this attention in fits and starts. But your suggestions are very helpful and much appreciated.
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    27. #25
      well I'm likely going to be looking over mine tomorrow.
      Had a no start without throttle issue again last night.
      MAF is now reading 13-14kg at idle now.

      I'm planning on doing all the vacuum lines just because.

    28. #26
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      Have you ever had the stalling?
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    29. #27
      no, and I've not gotten any codes for AFR stuff either.

    30. #28
      Junior Member volvonewyork's Avatar
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      code P2177:
      Definition - system too lean off idle bank 1;
      Explanation - failed MAF;
      Probable Cause - Low fuel pressure, vacuum leaks on engine, failed heated oxygen sensor

    31. #29
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by volvonewyork View Post
      failed heated oxygen sensor
      Next on the list!
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    32. #30
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      Frustration!

      Armed with the lambda sensor the car was booked in this morning. The old one is rusted on and requires more heat and time than my mechanic had to give so unfortunately has to go back next week. Argh!! But at least his scanner is showing a fault with the sensor so I think we're on the right track.

      Also, something that has been in the back of my mind. I think the fault codes and starting/stalling problems may be entirely separate issues. Close interrogation of my wife (shining a desk lamp in her face and saying "We have ways of making you talk" in a bad German accent), I think it may be a fuelling issue. The tank has been quite low (50 miles range?) because filling up isn't her job (!) and her new description of how the engine died doesn't fit. The engine just cut out while she was driving, not eg at traffic lights or a junction. Also, I fill up and drive it and it never happens to me.

      Enquiries are ongoing...
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

    33. #31
      lol.

      well sucking air up in the pump would do that.
      it's terrible for the pumps as well.
      You should tell her that it costs the same amount to fill the top half of the tank as the bottom half.

    34. #32
      Junior Member rich1068's Avatar
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      So, sensor changed and it made no difference. No leaks can be found. MAF already discounted. Low fuel not the issue.

      Unless I can come up with something between now and Tuesday it's going to the stealer for an hour's worth of diagnostic time. At £106.80 per hour But at least I know the master tech is a good guy.
      2005 Volvo V70 2.5T SE AWD
      2014 Volvo XC90 D5 Executive (Polestar)

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