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    1. #1
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      Exclamation Strange transmission issue and codes...

      This afternoon while on my commute home from work in horrid Thursday evening LA traffic, all was well until about halfway through my drive. Suddenly I noticed my CEL was on and the info screen said "TRANSMISSION SERVICE REQUIRED." You gotta be kidding me I thought! I immediately checked the codes unsing my ScanGauge II that I always have hooked up while in motion. It was giving a P0740 and P0700. Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Malfunction and Transmission Control System Malfunction were the code definitetions respectively. No bueno! The symptoms it exhibited were the OBDII RPM output was stock at 6000 RPM, though the actual tach was registering correctly. When accelerating from a complete stop, the car would severly bog, like worse than if in W mode. It was as if the car was stuck in 4th gear it seemed like. Once going about 20mph, it seemed to act more normal, though I wasn't noticing the physical feeling of any shifts going on, but the tach was indicating that either it WAS shifting once closer to highway speed, or the torque converter was operating. The 6000 RPM reading was coming from my ScanGauge which is directly coming from the OBDII connector. Speedo was also working normally as was OBDII speed reading. Lastly but maybe most importantly, the gear position screen was just a " - " No letter or number. I was afraid to pull off the road to try shifting around manually as I was on my way to an appointment that traffic was already making me late for. Once I got to where I was going and was going to head home, I first cleared the codes and then started the car. It fired right up and NO CEL or any shifting issues. OBDII RPM reading was normal, and shift position screen was properly displaying the correct gear position and power was restored as normal. Has any one ever experienced this, and should I be worried. I plan to do a flush here finally ASAP with fresh Mobil 3309 fluid and the special "tool" that chefricky kindly loaned me which I need to get back to him. I wish I could get my new DiCE tool connected up, I've been having issues with getting my "new" laptop updated to allow for IE 11 to install, it's corrently on IE 8. Guess I should just lug my PC tower down to the garage in the meantime since that DOES have VIDA installed on it and working.

      So any ideas??
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

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    3. #2
      What is your fluid level? What is the status of your tcm? Is it up to date?

      Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

    4. #3
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      Fluid level is good, that I do know.
      TCM I'm almost sure is not up to date. That's part of why I got my DiCE unit. But I wasn't going to pay dealer price just for that. According to Jason at FCP, based off my VIN#, my car has the updated B4 servo cover. It's a MY04 however manufactured in '03, so I wonder about that...

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      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

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    6. #4
      There has been more than one revision of the b4 servo cover. That transmission update it crucial. Plus all of the other updates as well

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    7. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bihmook View Post
      There has been more than one revision of the b4 servo cover. That transmission update it crucial. Plus all of the other updates as well

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      That I didn't know about the cover update. How can I tell for sure?

      On the software updates, I plan to get the all in one update that should update everything to the latest.

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      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    8. #6
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      Finding info on this is proving difficult. Most doesn't apply to the S60 (though might in a general sense), and a lot has no real answers or resolution other than flush the tranny, which I'm going to be doing anyways. I did see reference to the SL solenoid which can cause the P0740 code.

      In any event, not a single issue this morning on my 35+ mile commute into work.
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    9. #7
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      This one has me perplexed.I think it went into limp mode as you described.But why is the question.I don't think the B2 servo is in question one bit.You would have a 2/3 shift flare if it were the issue.I would first research how to get into adaptive mode.It may be as simple as a battery disconnect.I wish I could help you more.
      BTW.I received a dedicated laptop with Vida from member here TacklaNNHL.I works great right out of the box and he is a great guy to deal with.

    10. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by chefricky View Post
      This one has me perplexed.I think it went into limp mode as you described.But why is the question.I don't think the B2 servo is in question one bit.You would have a 2/3 shift flare if it were the issue.I would first research how to get into adaptive mode.It may be as simple as a battery disconnect.I wish I could help you more.
      BTW.I received a dedicated laptop with Vida from member here TacklaNNHL.I works great right out of the box and he is a great guy to deal with.
      That's great news Ricky! Do you have a DiCE unit to use along with it? I'm almost there with mine. Getting it to update (since Win 7 end of life has long passed), you have to do several specific updates in specific order, and I had to in order to get IE 11 installed. Now with VIDA finally installed, it's not loading up, so I think it's a NETframework issue.

      In any event, thank you for your input on my issue. It went into a limp mode for sure, but not the normal type. I've been in true limp mode before, and it's generally speed limited. This was not, but rather seemed to have the tranny locked into a specific gear, which others have described similarly, or the car locking into whatever great it's in at the time the code hits. When the car is normal, I DO get flares from 2/3. That doesn't happen until after a bit of driving in traffic however.

      Do we know what each solenoid serves or goes to?

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      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    11. #9
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      I do not know anything about what each solenoid does.I would have to look at a fluid diagram to see.I don't have the info.You can find it somewhere I think,?? if you do an extensive search on that particular model transmission.Not to alarm you,,, but there is a small possibility that some amount of particulate matter got into a solenoid and is causing the problem.
      That said,at this point,I would think a proper measure would be to warm it up and drop a few OZ.of fluid and have it analyzed.Regarding the 2/3 flare, that is a indication that that the
      B2 servo spring is broken or shot and causing the lip seal on the servo piston to leak by and cause the flare.That's all have for you Matt.Except that you should have flushed it when I told you to.I hope that I am wrong for your sake.

    12. #10
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      I did get the fluid changed finally. Since the day that I posted this, the issue has not popped back up since. Since flushing this weekend, so far things seem improved, at least shifts feel smoother but I know I need to make sure the TCM is updated to the latest software. I still need to verify if my B4 servo cover is the most updated one as well. I DID harvest a sample of the old fluid (before too much of new fluid pumped in) to send off to Blackstone. It was darker than I had previously thought, but still did not smell burnt. Used all 12 quarts exactly the way you had lined out to me.
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    13. #11
      There are a few versions of the b4 as said by bigmook. You can get it thru ipd. Updates and flush or drain/fill are all equally important. There are 3 linear solenoids that initiates the shift points. One of those 3 threw that trans control warning message. I have updated my trans with a few flushes as well since then, also with the b4 update. Since then its been treating me fine. Flush trans about every 20-30k miles. Mobil 3309 or aisin atf are the only 2 types I would use. A lot of people would tell you that the trans is going to die, but in these cases its mainly the solenoids that are the culprit, or entire valve body. In which case trans shops would tell you to just replace the whole unit. But valve bodies and the sonlenoids are rebuildable.

    14. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by 02IslandStyleS60 View Post
      There are a few versions of the b4 as said by bigmook. You can get it thru ipd. Updates and flush or drain/fill are all equally important. There are 3 linear solenoids that initiates the shift points. One of those 3 threw that trans control warning message. I have updated my trans with a few flushes as well since then, also with the b4 update. Since then its been treating me fine. Flush trans about every 20-30k miles. Mobil 3309 or aisin atf are the only 2 types I would use. A lot of people would tell you that the trans is going to die, but in these cases its mainly the solenoids that are the culprit, or entire valve body. In which case trans shops would tell you to just replace the whole unit. But valve bodies and the sonlenoids are rebuildable.
      That's the key, and valve bodies can also be changed out without removing the trans or touching anything else with the trans. I've done a bit of reading up on this. Some people even opt for just replacing the 3 main solenoids without the entire valve body be replaced. It just all depends on what the issue is. Do you know how I can tell what version my B4 cover is, or if I can tell if it's the latest updated one? Being a 2004 model (built in May of 2003), I have a hunch that mine is not the latest. Since my fluid flush this past weekend, I also gotta figure out how to put the trans into adaptive mode with my DiCE unit, and is that necessary to do so?
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    15. #13
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      Honestly? I don't think you have to get into adaptive mode.The TCM reads and adjusts constantly with driver habits.A simple battery disconnect will "Most Likely" do the same thing as a TCM flash.I would not be concerned at all.

    16. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by chefricky View Post
      Honestly? I don't think you have to get into adaptive mode.The TCM reads and adjusts constantly with driver habits.A simple battery disconnect will "Most Likely" do the same thing as a TCM flash.I would not be concerned at all.
      That's good to know, thanks Ricky! Is adaptive mode basically like resetting the TCM? That'll happen for me eventually anyways once I do a Total CAN download at some point here to make sure all software is up to date.
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    17. #15
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      Alright, while on my commute home this evening, as I'll do time to time randomly, I did a code scan with my ScanGauge II while in traffic, and on that drive cycle I had a pending P0740 which is a T/C circuit malfunction. T/C was still locking in and out and engaging like normal how it should. No MIL, no messages and no issues. I need that software update pronto! 😕

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      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    18. #16
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      All is well, code cleared by itself upon next start/drive cycle as it was only pending when I caught it. I should have looked at the freeze frame data from it though, ahh well. Played around a little bit with VIDA and my DiCE unit tonight to see about activating the gear selection display in the gauge cluster. Unfortunately it can only be set upon the engine running, and only lasts that same drive cycle and then returns back to it's normal operation after. I'll also, through VIDA, have to verify my TCM software is up to date before that feature can be run. The program basically turns the normal gear selector display into showing the actual gear number that the trans is in, and will illuminate the MIL amber color when the T/C locks up locked. It's for diagnosing T/C lock up issues and/or helps identify what gear trans issues occur in or between.
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    19. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by Phixion View Post
      All is well, code cleared by itself upon next start/drive cycle as it was only pending when I caught it. I should have looked at the freeze frame data from it though, ahh well. Played around a little bit with VIDA and my DiCE unit tonight to see about activating the gear selection display in the gauge cluster. Unfortunately it can only be set upon the engine running, and only lasts that same drive cycle and then returns back to it's normal operation after. I'll also, through VIDA, have to verify my TCM software is up to date before that feature can be run. The program basically turns the normal gear selector display into showing the actual gear number that the trans is in, and will illuminate the MIL amber color when the T/C locks up locked. It's for diagnosing T/C lock up issues and/or helps identify what gear trans issues occur in or between.
      I have had this issue happen twice. Once with my XC and once with the S60. In the case of the XC I replaced all three of the solenoids, SLS,SLT,SLU. I did the adaption and that trans has been great until the burnt valves issue. More than 30k on that one. I however was having serious issues with the XC. With it I did all of the work in the car. It is a little difficult but can be done. You just have to watch out for the S3 solenoid at the bottom of the valve body. It is easy to damage the electrical plug.

      In the case of the S60, you were with me on the adventure up here. You helped work it out with me and I thank you for it. When the 60 did this, I took it as a bubble in the system. I just pulled over as I was just a couple of blocks from home, and shut the car off. I double checked fluid etc and nothing looked out of place so I started her back up and all was good. I suspect that this is an air bubble or a fluid bubble kind of thing. The worry is that it could be a good indicator on a failing SLS, SLT, SLU solenoid. I have NOT had anymore issues with the 60 after fishing third back into place after the idiot took out the 27mm bolt. If I have the limp mode issue again I think I am just going to order up the SLT, SLS, SLU's and get back inside and replace them. As you know, that is about all that is left to replace or rebuild.

      So, to my thinking, get that B4 cover replaced. It can't hurt. Even if it is the same, at least you will know it is the most up to date revision. It's really just about 20 mins to do. If you are good with a little pick or a small flat blade screwdriver, you can pop the clip out of its channel and walk it out. Then just a pair of pliers to twist the servo out and pull. Clean it all up and replace the one 'O' ring on the servo and the 2 on the cover. You can put the new clip back in without special tools. Just walk it back into place. From there I would look at the SLS, SLT, SLU. Again there not hard to replace. If you are worried about the possibility that the adaption reset might cause bigger issues, you could wait to do it until you have a set of the three solenoids on hand. If you can find them at a good price I would get the Rostra ones. They have an open cap on them that lets the fluid flow better and evacuate better.

      With any luck you won't have to dig as deep into your transmission as I have. Tho, with the help up here you can get it right in the long run. Just remember to NEVER REMOVE THE 27mm BOLT. LOL
      Last edited by wrcware; 03-31-2017 at 12:34 PM.
      2002 S60 AWD (171,000 mi, stock so far, FOUND third gear)
      2002 V70XC (185,000 mi, was Daily driver now burnt exhaust valves on #4)
      1995 Saab 9000 CS (ZF Gertrag Auto, over 250,000 mi. 30+ mpg back-up car)
      1994 Saab 900 Turbo Classic Convertible (Auto, 124,000 mi, parade car)
      NEVER REMOVE THE 27mm BOLT, BAD THINGS HAPPEN

    20. #18
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      You're quite welcome! I just felt along for the ride while gaining great knowledge in with your issue of the 3rd gear.

      Fortunately the B4 kit is on sale right now from iPD. I've heard there's many revisions to it, and FCPeuro ran my VIN and said I should have an updated one, but when was the last update to it released? Was it refined further even if I don't have an original style problematic one? Only one way to know for sure by replacing it, right? Once you mentioned the bubble suspicion, that make a lot of sense. Similar in how an air bubble in the cooling circuit will cause over heating or intermittent issues. You mention the SLS, SLT and SLU solenoid, but is there anything with the actual T/C that could be culprit or a sensor within? I'm wondering if it's just a bad sensor. Or maybe a parameter or bug within the TCU that's fixed with a software update? I guess anything really is possible. I know it's not my fluid condition since that's recently completely flushed. I'll double check the level though. The first time I experienced the codes (in my OP at the top of here), I was on the freeway and the trans stuck in 4th. It wasn't true limp home where the engine cuts back power and runs rich. Rather the trans just stayed in a gear that allows for low to moderate and still even highway speed. Serious bog from a standing stop, but picked up as speed increased, of course with a check transmission message on the DIM. And the OBDII output RPM to my ScanGauge II stuck at 6000 RPM even when not moving! Actual tach in cluster was functioning correctly. Turn the car of, then back on and it was like nothing ever happened. This time around I just happened to come upon it stuck as a pending code, so nothing was actually going to happen. The bubble reappearing, right? lol! Lastly, fortunately I don't think I have any socket or wrench that's 27mm! LOL
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    21. #19
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      Have you guys ever looked into these transgo kits? A few guys have tried them on their R's with TF80-SCs and have had good results with them. They make a kit for the AW55-50/51 as well. Seems pretty cool and only around $100

      http://www.transgo.com/products.php?...dcountview=Yes
      David - '01 S60 T5 GT 178K+ miles OWNED SINCE DAY ONE - Bilstein Sport + TME, ipd sway bar + endlinks, UR chassis braces (upper F+R), Powerslot /Akebono pads, Snabb Intake, HD coils, iMIV Original engine, transmission replaced at 79k miles
      Wife -'13 C30 T5 R-Design Dad - '98 S70 T5 160K + miles, Bilstein TCs, IPD HD rear springs, SAS delete Mom -'10 S80 V8 Executive Sis - '02 S80 T6 Backup car -'13 S60 T5

    22. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by T501 View Post
      Have you guys ever looked into these transgo kits? A few guys have tried them on their R's with TF80-SCs and have had good results with them. They make a kit for the AW55-50/51 as well. Seems pretty cool and only around $100

      http://www.transgo.com/products.php?...dcountview=Yes
      Nice, they are on my way home from work!!
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    23. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by T501 View Post
      Have you guys ever looked into these transgo kits? A few guys have tried them on their R's with TF80-SCs and have had good results with them. They make a kit for the AW55-50/51 as well. Seems pretty cool and only around $100

      http://www.transgo.com/products.php?...dcountview=Yes
      I have looked at these but to do it you basically rebuild the whole VB. I'm just not up for doing that yet. From what I can tell with these, you are just boring out the circuit and making it maybe a thousandth bigger. Pretty much just getting rid of any build up. The solenoid rebuild kits they offer are good. I just don't want to spend a day working on tiny parts like that. My glasses are getting thicker every year now. LOL. That's where the Rostra's are great. Can be as much as $300 for them but if you look you can find them like I did for $130 delivered. The other 5 solenoids can be gotten for the same money. I guess at that point you spend another $50 for the VB rebuild kit and unless the clutches are bad, what else can go wrong?
      2002 S60 AWD (171,000 mi, stock so far, FOUND third gear)
      2002 V70XC (185,000 mi, was Daily driver now burnt exhaust valves on #4)
      1995 Saab 9000 CS (ZF Gertrag Auto, over 250,000 mi. 30+ mpg back-up car)
      1994 Saab 900 Turbo Classic Convertible (Auto, 124,000 mi, parade car)
      NEVER REMOVE THE 27mm BOLT, BAD THINGS HAPPEN

    24. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Phixion View Post
      You're quite welcome! I just felt along for the ride while gaining great knowledge in with your issue of the 3rd gear.

      Fortunately the B4 kit is on sale right now from iPD. I've heard there's many revisions to it, and FCPeuro ran my VIN and said I should have an updated one, but when was the last update to it released? Was it refined further even if I don't have an original style problematic one? Only one way to know for sure by replacing it, right? Once you mentioned the bubble suspicion, that make a lot of sense. Similar in how an air bubble in the cooling circuit will cause over heating or intermittent issues. You mention the SLS, SLT and SLU solenoid, but is there anything with the actual T/C that could be culprit or a sensor within? I'm wondering if it's just a bad sensor. Or maybe a parameter or bug within the TCU that's fixed with a software update? I guess anything really is possible. I know it's not my fluid condition since that's recently completely flushed. I'll double check the level though. The first time I experienced the codes (in my OP at the top of here), I was on the freeway and the trans stuck in 4th. It wasn't true limp home where the engine cuts back power and runs rich. Rather the trans just stayed in a gear that allows for low to moderate and still even highway speed. Serious bog from a standing stop, but picked up as speed increased, of course with a check transmission message on the DIM. And the OBDII output RPM to my ScanGauge II stuck at 6000 RPM even when not moving! Actual tach in cluster was functioning correctly. Turn the car of, then back on and it was like nothing ever happened. This time around I just happened to come upon it stuck as a pending code, so nothing was actually going to happen. The bubble reappearing, right? lol! Lastly, fortunately I don't think I have any socket or wrench that's 27mm! LOL

      I have been thinking with the problems I have had and others I see, I am curious if there is a chance some junk is possible in the SLS, SLT, or SLU solenoids, this might cause it to not open or close quite enough. There is also the possibility that our trans coolers are not flowing enough for many reasons having to do with age and fluid neglect. Then again we might have a fluid temp sensor issue. Could be they just get bad like any other or there could be buildup on it that allows the temp to be 10-50 degrees hotter than it shows. If any of these thing are possible then sending out a fluid sample to get tested is a good thing. Kind of hard to know. We almost need a really good trans shop and tech to be willing to look at it step by step and start as simple as a drain and fill and work all the way to a total reman giving us answers at each level. That is a huge ask for someone with the knowledge and tools. So I guess until someone does that, all we can do is punt and try our best. I tend to think that every possible problem has problem has come up in one of the many cars this trans came in. We just need to track them down and build a book. Again, that is a monumental task.

      Now that I think about it, if someone has a good temp probe they can run down the fill tube and compare with what VIDA says. We would need a pretty bad trans to start with. Something with a bit of buildup and stiction. This kind of a simple issue could cause a lot of ugly issues.

      Just some thoughts.

      I have painted my 27mm wrench and socket RED to keep me from using them... every time I see them I have an uncontrollable tick now... LOL
      2002 S60 AWD (171,000 mi, stock so far, FOUND third gear)
      2002 V70XC (185,000 mi, was Daily driver now burnt exhaust valves on #4)
      1995 Saab 9000 CS (ZF Gertrag Auto, over 250,000 mi. 30+ mpg back-up car)
      1994 Saab 900 Turbo Classic Convertible (Auto, 124,000 mi, parade car)
      NEVER REMOVE THE 27mm BOLT, BAD THINGS HAPPEN

    25. #23
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      Good looking out on the 27mm hardware!

      You know, your thoughts on the temp are exactly the same that I've wondered. I mean could adding in an aftermarket cooler for extra cooling be a benefit? Is it even necessary? And is the trans temp sensor replaceable or at least accessible to clean off if it could get mucked up causing erroneous readings? I could totally see that happening. I've thought of an aftermarket trans temp gauge. But where to tap into to get the temp reading signal from... My issues I experience only seem to come about when I've been in traffic for a bit and/or the cooling system temp is at max before the fan kicks on to bring it back down, which is around 222-224F. What about coolant itself? Does old coolant have any bearing on the trans system temp even though they are 2 completely separate and unrelated circuits just happening to share a cooling source? Things to make you go hmm...
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    26. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Phixion View Post
      Good looking out on the 27mm hardware!

      You know, your thoughts on the temp are exactly the same that I've wondered. I mean could adding in an aftermarket cooler for extra cooling be a benefit? Is it even necessary? And is the trans temp sensor replaceable or at least accessible to clean off if it could get mucked up causing erroneous readings? I could totally see that happening. I've thought of an aftermarket trans temp gauge. But where to tap into to get the temp reading signal from... My issues I experience only seem to come about when I've been in traffic for a bit and/or the cooling system temp is at max before the fan kicks on to bring it back down, which is around 222-224F. What about coolant itself? Does old coolant have any bearing on the trans system temp even though they are 2 completely separate and unrelated circuits just happening to share a cooling source? Things to make you go hmm...
      Well I have been looking around and have found a doc from Sonnax http://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources...dy-information that appears to give us a few clues.

      I pulled my spare valve body in the house to look at things. It looks like the temp sensor is a 2 wire item that is located alone the center line of the valve body top to bottom and on the left edge. The one on my spare VB is blue with 2 orange wires and looks like it is held in by the 'O' ring that is on it. This will take some more reading to see if we can find resistance values so we can determine if it is bad or coked up by burnt fluid.

      Time for pizza and much reading of the document. Might even be cause for a couple of adult root beer floats.
      2002 S60 AWD (171,000 mi, stock so far, FOUND third gear)
      2002 V70XC (185,000 mi, was Daily driver now burnt exhaust valves on #4)
      1995 Saab 9000 CS (ZF Gertrag Auto, over 250,000 mi. 30+ mpg back-up car)
      1994 Saab 900 Turbo Classic Convertible (Auto, 124,000 mi, parade car)
      NEVER REMOVE THE 27mm BOLT, BAD THINGS HAPPEN

    27. #25
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      I like adult root beer floats!

      I'm anxious to see what you read and find out! Does the sensor look to be at least removable if not replaceable? Wonder where one would even source a new one...
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    28. #26
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      It looks like the temp sensor is part of the wiring harness. The one on my spare VB just pulled out. From the parts list I found it looks like $150-$200 if the harness/sensor needs to be replaced. I just wish I could find info on resistance values. I would guess by looking at it, it seems to be brass, we should be able to clean it of residue or maybe sand it to expose clean surface. About all I can do right now is check continuity.

      After reading a little more on the info in the link, I think there is good reason to look for buildup and varnishing/stiction in all of the different circuits and the SLS, SLT, & SLU solenoids.


      EDIT

      I knew I had seen this somewhere... http://www.myvolvolibrary.info/Tech_...55-50%20SN.pdf page 11 has a table on the right side of the page that may give me values to work with. Next thing is to see if there is a way to tap into the wiring on the outside of the case. Could splice in a 2 wire connector and just plug in a VOM and monitor things from there.

      Oh, saw another pic of another VB and it looks like the temp sensor may be held in by a 10mm bolt.
      Last edited by wrcware; 04-03-2017 at 09:08 PM.
      2002 S60 AWD (171,000 mi, stock so far, FOUND third gear)
      2002 V70XC (185,000 mi, was Daily driver now burnt exhaust valves on #4)
      1995 Saab 9000 CS (ZF Gertrag Auto, over 250,000 mi. 30+ mpg back-up car)
      1994 Saab 900 Turbo Classic Convertible (Auto, 124,000 mi, parade car)
      NEVER REMOVE THE 27mm BOLT, BAD THINGS HAPPEN

    29. #27
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      Phixion;

      I am not sure if you are having the problem I just started having or not. My S60 has started to developed an issue shifting into 3rd after about 7 miles of city driving. It starts to flare and will start to skip shift if I am really light on the throttle. If I give it at least half throttle it will be mostly Ok. It is even a little rough when in manual.

      So I started down the roads you and I have been discussing. I have found that Sonnex makes a "Zip Kit" that mostly addresses my issues. I am going to take apart my spare valve body and look at the parts that the kit replaces. The issue appears to be "blow by" if you will in a circuit within the VB. It would be on the right (drivers side of trans as you look at it from the front of the car) side of the VB and on the second plate. It is towards the bottom of the VB. Looks like a simple spring loaded piston type of circuit. Goal of the Zip Kit is to replace the piston with a new one that has an 'O' ring in a grove on it. It is supposed to stop leaking across the piston and solve the issue.

      So in the next couple of weeks I will be tearing apart my spare VB and ordering a Zip Kit, $200-$250, and getting back into my trans. In looking at it, if your steels and clutches are good, the complete with Zip Kit, all 8 solenoids, and VB gasket set should set you back about $600 plus fluid. It is a job that can easily be done in a weekend. So I think if steels, clutches, torque converter are all reasonable, one could do a VB rebuild and fluid for the $750 area and have a total reman of the VB with new fluid.

      More as I get into it. Now I just need to figure out how to do pics and where to host them...LOL
      2002 S60 AWD (171,000 mi, stock so far, FOUND third gear)
      2002 V70XC (185,000 mi, was Daily driver now burnt exhaust valves on #4)
      1995 Saab 9000 CS (ZF Gertrag Auto, over 250,000 mi. 30+ mpg back-up car)
      1994 Saab 900 Turbo Classic Convertible (Auto, 124,000 mi, parade car)
      NEVER REMOVE THE 27mm BOLT, BAD THINGS HAPPEN

    30. #28
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      That is EXACTLY what I experience. But in my observation is seems to be after a couple of complete cooling cycles if you will, of the motor getting to max temp before the thermo and cooling fan kick in to bring the temps back down, rather than after so many miles of driving. I'd be willing to bet that zip kit from Sonnex would be my ticket as well however, because it's gotta be something more than just a temperature thing. On that note, I do have another case of 3309 in my garage now that I just got delivered while Amazon had it for $60 shipped! Well $65 for me after taxes, lol! PLEASE keep me posted on your findings.

      Also having never worked on a trans myself before, is it still a weekend job? Skill level only slightly or WAY beyond that of the T/belt?
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    31. #29
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      The skill level is pretty low really. It is more the actual time to get the VB out and making sure the 'O' rings are back in and not crimped when reinstalling the VB. I will look later for the link for the Zip Kit. It has a couple of good pdf's with it. One of them shows all of the parts involved. I think once you see that and look at how the VB is set up, you will agree that it looks pretty easy. The good thing with the Zip Kit is that there is no drilling or boring out of circuits.

      With me it seems like as soon as the fluid gets warm it thins out and doesn't work like it should. That is what led me to the 3 SLU, SLT, & Other SL solenoid. That got me to the Zip Kit and the circuit that bleeds thru.
      2002 S60 AWD (171,000 mi, stock so far, FOUND third gear)
      2002 V70XC (185,000 mi, was Daily driver now burnt exhaust valves on #4)
      1995 Saab 9000 CS (ZF Gertrag Auto, over 250,000 mi. 30+ mpg back-up car)
      1994 Saab 900 Turbo Classic Convertible (Auto, 124,000 mi, parade car)
      NEVER REMOVE THE 27mm BOLT, BAD THINGS HAPPEN

    32. #30
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      If this requires pulling the VB out, then it make sense to go through all of the solenoids at the same time for maximum effectiveness and you mention.

      It sounds fairly lower skill level, but now how the skill level ov actually removing the VB? It requires a subframe drop, correct??
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    33. #31
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      Getting the VB out is pretty easy. Put the front end on jack stands, take out your air box and maf. Get things out of the way above and in front of the trans pan. Not much really. Then the hard part is to loosen the sub frame bolts. Passenger side firewall about 4 or 5 full turns and take out the rest. Undo the front motor mount from under the radiator. Remove the lower torque mount and the upper mount at the back of the motor. Make sure you have a floor jack under the motor. Then lower the motor until you have about 2-3 inches between the drivers side front sub frame mount. You may have to pry it a little, then wedge a long deep socket in there. I use my 32mm axle socket. Then you would have enough room to get the pan wriggled out. Take out the 9 or 13 torx head bolts in the pan cover. Oh and I would say disco the trans line from the top of the trans cooler. Just squeeze the green connector and push pull it out. You really should pull the dipstick tube as well. But really, I have done this now 5 times and the first time had to do it twice in one day. First time was about 5 hours to do the job twice. Now the last time I did it, took about 45 mins to get it apart and about 20 mins to get it back together and filled with fluid. Now adding the VB pull into it I figure is going to add about 30 mins to remove and install. The rebuild can probably be done in a few hours. If all goes well I figure about 3 hours. So total job, I figure I can do it in 5-7 hours. Only special tools you will need is a good 1/2 inch breaker bar and the really deep ell socket to wedge between the sub frame and where it mounts to give you the room to pull the pan.

      I ware scared to death to do it the first time. I took pix and notes on everything as well as having the video on my tablet and the write up as well. Now I don't even think about it, I just start ripping things off and removing bolts and nuts (NOT THE 27 mm BOLT THO). Honestly if you look at the write ups and then look at the exploded drawings, I think you will have an aha moment and say what I have been saying which is, why have I been so afraid of doing this. A little thought and a little logic and it's really pretty easy. I have been wrenching for more than 40 years. My first car was a 1974 Honda Civic that by the time I was 10 I had done a clutch on and full brake system as well as a motor swap. I can strip a car and build a full 8 second 1/4 miler. I built my 88 Cougar road course car. I've done countless VB swaps but in all of it I had never until my XC taken apart a VB or rebuilt one. Just the old plug and play replace. Even with that I had only done swaps on Ford C4's, C6's, and the AOD family. Basic rule was, if it is screwing up either replace the VBor just drive it till it explodes and throw in a new trans. Back then I could get a rebuilt or good used trans for $200-$300 so it wasn't worth my time to do anything but replace it. With these beasts tho, $3,500-$4,500 to replace it, that's a lot of grease and oil I can live with to get it fixed. $750'ish and a good weekend, that's 4-6 times I can rebuild it before I am out any extra money. Or that is me paying myself $2,500 plus for a few hours of work. Damn good money if you can make it.

      On a side note, my newest issue is the famous 01-02 fuel pump issue. I parked on the street last night and climbed out to gas rushing to the ground. Got out and tore into it today and the leak is on the top where you don't want it to be. So looks like new fuel pump tomorrow. Right now I have access to 2 '04 S60 AWD's that just came in to the local pick and pull so I am going to go get some parts. Thinking a couple of carriers, VB's, Haldex systems, angle gears and maybe a few seats and some other goodies. Have to stock up on some parts to flip. Need to look into what 850/s70 parts are needed out here on SS and see if I can help anyone out. We have a handful of 850/s70's at the yard as well. Think I am going to grab a 16t or 2 while I am at it. Can't hurt to have a couple of extra turbo's just in case.
      2002 S60 AWD (171,000 mi, stock so far, FOUND third gear)
      2002 V70XC (185,000 mi, was Daily driver now burnt exhaust valves on #4)
      1995 Saab 9000 CS (ZF Gertrag Auto, over 250,000 mi. 30+ mpg back-up car)
      1994 Saab 900 Turbo Classic Convertible (Auto, 124,000 mi, parade car)
      NEVER REMOVE THE 27mm BOLT, BAD THINGS HAPPEN

    34. #32
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      Shoot, having 2 extras to pick and pull parts from is a dream!! Yeah, one can never have enough turbos! ;-)

      Ok, so how you describe doesn't sound so bad. Do you brace the engine with a floor jack initially, and then lower it once everything is removed or loosened that needs to be? I think if I do this, I'll get new subframe bushings and just replace those at the time since that would be the best opportunity to do so. Maybe just drop the whole SF to make everything easier. I feel like I can such a priss (lol!) when it comes to some of this stuff, but yet I've probably gotten more into car work than almost any of my friends have. I've wrenched on every car I've had, and that's for easily 17ish years. Nothing like the T/belt, but brakes, oil, trans fluid drains, radiator replacements, customer exhaust install and full on suspension work to name a bit. In my Honda days I did tons of electrical work as well wiring things from amp and stereo systems, to aux lights, to gauges and even an air horn and a homemade simple power to the fuel pump kill switch. The fuse box on that car was almost not recognizable. But again, no major mechanical engine work. I do love getting deeper into the car though and fixing or modifying whatever I can myself.
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    35. #33
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      Yes, start with the jack under the motor. I tend to get ahead of myself when writing things. So I can skip steps along the way. If you can do suspension work then you will be fine. Like I say, I will work on tracking back down the links so you can read up. If I were to look at it, in reality this trans VB rebuild is going to be about as hard as replacing a factory Volvo HU and its 8ohm speakers with a really well thought out 2ohm setup and associated amps with a good say 8 inch sub. So not overly bad.

      Right now I have so many irons in the fire it is scary. Besides these issues on the S60 I just upgraded to audio to the 300 watt Polly cone Dynaudio system. Went from 8 speakers to 12 and am looking at a 6" or 8" sub in the console now. Before I do it tho, I have to do a quick hardware mod on my android HU. Have to solder a couple of wires in to bypass the MCU and go right to the android digital processor. Gives my much better and more true control of the sound scape. Plus restoring a 93 240 dl for my mother so she won't steal my S60. I also have all of the other cars in my stable to just keep up. Then there is the fact that I am going back to school to get a new degree. In truth,that is only about 25% of the irons I have going. Got to love keeping busy. LOL...

      I just got done helping a friend install a new exhaust system this afternoon. Still have a bunch to help him with on his car. Sad thing is his is a front wheel drive Chevy Impala. It's a major POS but we have put in a little time and work and he has been offered $4,000 for it and he is only into it about $500 right now. So with some kind of luck I can get him to sell the pig and get a P2, maybe an XC90 since he has a family and his better half drives a Tahoe.
      2002 S60 AWD (171,000 mi, stock so far, FOUND third gear)
      2002 V70XC (185,000 mi, was Daily driver now burnt exhaust valves on #4)
      1995 Saab 9000 CS (ZF Gertrag Auto, over 250,000 mi. 30+ mpg back-up car)
      1994 Saab 900 Turbo Classic Convertible (Auto, 124,000 mi, parade car)
      NEVER REMOVE THE 27mm BOLT, BAD THINGS HAPPEN

    36. #34
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      That's really doesn't sound so bad then. I think that when post people hear the word transmission, they think impossible for anyone except a trans shop e able to work on it without anything getting messed up. I'm sure the actual internals with the bands and gears is more like that, but not how you describe the whole VB setup. Actual engine work, like the bottom end and such, now that stuff scares me, lol! If my car wasn't my D/D, then it would be okay, but you understand where I'm coming from I'm sure.

      That's pretty awesome that you're going back to school currently for a new degree. What degree are you going back for?

      That sounds like a fine sound system you've got planned there. Honestly, I'm an audio guy, but I'm actually content with the stock HU-613 and speakers setup in my S60. Not sure if it has the factory external amp or not, but I'm thinking it does not, not that I could tell under the passenger seat anyways. Should I feel the need that the system isn't adequate enough for me (lol!) I do have all of the components I had back in my old Honda which I picked out from it when it was totaled 6 years ago. A nice Alpine amp which has the direct to battery connect 4x60w built-in amp (which is able to be turned off by the HU), 3x 4v pre-outs, and a JBL 300w x 4ch main amp and a "10 Infinity Reference sub mounted into a sealed box that I put together myself with an Infinity Reference Euro-spec engineering sample amp mounted atop it rated at 300w itself. Unfortunately I'd have to buy a new 4ga wiring kit as that part I wasn't able to salvage from my Honda. Speakers, I have a set of JBL GTO series components to put in the fronts. It was a great system that sounded amazing, but you couldn't hear my coming up the street with it which was nice.

      Since when are Impalas FWD?? lol, wow!! The only good GM sedan of recent years was the G8 (in GXP trim preferably) and the Chevy SS which I'm not sure if that still made??
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    37. #35
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      Yeah, the VB is not really that bad. If I can manage to grab a 2004 VB at the yard I will let you know. If you cover my costs to get it to you, it will give you a chance to rebuild it before having to take a car down for the work. Would save the down time for sure.

      The sound system in mine is all factory stuff except for the HU. My HU was having small issues plus I wanted GPS and MP3 ability. The iPod hookup was starting to become an issue since it wouldn't work with my iPhone 6. Got to hate being end of lifed on the 30 pin cable. Befor too long I will have 2 factory 300 watt amps and harnesses for sale. Just have to double check they work. The difference in sound out of the poly cones vs the paper cones is HUGE. Then the fact that I have 8" bass in the rear deck with 1.5" dome tweeters in the rear deck, makes the sound stage much nicer. Ended up with 8's in the front doors with 3.5" mid-bass and 1.5" dome tweeters, so it sounds good up front. The problem I have now is I have to get it stupid loud to get correct sound shaping. That is the reason for the HU mod. It just a matter if removing 2 oneK resisters and soldering a couple of short lengths of wire with 1k resisters in line to another location on the main board. Kind of scary but not too bad. Then I can get some sub control and have a full digital signal processor. It's only a 3 band but each band has 'Q' & high pass, low pass etc. so should actually be able to extract some decent sound in the end. You system sounds like it was well capable of rattling the mirrors. Always a good test in my eyes. LOL

      Thanks on the degree thoughts. I am going back to get a Masters in Public Policy at Harvard Kennedy School of Government. It's an accelerated course study and should take 2 years. Should be interesting.

      As far a GM cars go, well, um, I am not sure there is or has been a decent GM product since 1967 with the 427 Sting Ray. But that is just me. Can never go wrong with classic V-8 muscle. I however am kind of addicted to Swedish steel. I love my Volvo's and my classic (pre 1994) Saab's. So I will be Swede for life.
      2002 S60 AWD (171,000 mi, stock so far, FOUND third gear)
      2002 V70XC (185,000 mi, was Daily driver now burnt exhaust valves on #4)
      1995 Saab 9000 CS (ZF Gertrag Auto, over 250,000 mi. 30+ mpg back-up car)
      1994 Saab 900 Turbo Classic Convertible (Auto, 124,000 mi, parade car)
      NEVER REMOVE THE 27mm BOLT, BAD THINGS HAPPEN

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