fyi with no promises re; synthetic atf

[hastee]

my local parts wholesaler says mobil oil is filling their pipline with jws 3309 atf (the synthetic used in 5 speed auto volvo's).

the availability will begin they say in the next month, the price will be 4-5 bucks vs. volvo's 15 -18 a litre, quart. same exact specs and just in time for me.

edit; 7-20-05. mobil 3309 atf is in my supply house now and specifies the volvo part number on the back of the container, went to volvo to show them, and the said great, it will save me some money. i like my dealer.

Modified by hastee at 3:24 PM 7-20-2005

[shrike71]

Sheesh - that's great news if it is accurate. Any other sources that can confirm?

[mthedford]

What about using AMSOIL's synthetic ATF?

[MrTippy]

This got my interest so I did a little checking.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-En....aspx

http://www.mobil.com/USA-Engli...9.asp

Called Mobil, the cust srvc rep first said "just go to the dealer..." ($62/gal @volvo dealer here in Chicagoland--what's this stuff made of?). The high price is somewhat moderated by the long maintenance interval, but $15+/qt? Ford ($8/qt Premium ATF, Xpart# T-8-QAW for new Ford 500 w/6 speed; not CVT), Totota and Saturn ($11.95/qt) dealers have their versions. When pressed the Mobil contact dug around and reluctantly came up with Autozone, Kragen, or Murrays Auto Parts; none had it, the first two were clueless.

Enough of that, so I called Mobil's local commercial lube distributor, Boncosky Oil. They have it for $47.10/12 qts and will UPS it for another $15 or so.

There you go, best deal: find a friend or two and split a case. Or try your local Ford dealer.

FWIW, although I'm no fan of their stuff, Quaker State advertises a fluid for these vehicles.

[hastee]

excellent, my shop has it is their where...house but it is not yet on the shelves. their price is similar at 3.99 a quart, does not help if you can not get it.

great work

edit; don't know about amsoil, i was told by tech that the tranny needed the special friction modifiers in this new type fluid. and mrtippy is absoluely correct that several manufaturers spec this stuff.

[lax01]

Mobil Syn ATF goes for $5 at AutoZone...I spent the same $5 and got B&M TrickShift Syn ATF....its about the same....you can find it online for about $5/quart

[MadeInJapan]

This needs to be bumped as I've recently run into several people I've refered to this thread....so I'm bumping it

[hastee]

mobile atf 3309 is now available at my parts store, and, available elsewhere i am told. it is identical to the volvo atf for the aw 55-50.

i specs the volvo part no. on the container, cost $4 a quart, and was accepted by my dealer, lawrence volvo, walnut creek, ca as an equivalent.

other stuff will work. i was told other stuff could void the warranty, but, that this mobil atf 3309 would not.

gotta go; getting a friend from metarie, la to come here for a while.

thanks for bumping this up, this is the right stuff for the volvo and others using this quite special fluid, many are listed on the back of the container.

[MadeInJapan]

I was all excited in getting the ATF 3309 and so I called Mobile Oil about it. Found out that it is not synthetic. So, if will be important after switching from the Volvo synthetic ATF in our newer cars to get in the habit of flushing the transmission every couple of years. Not sure now if I want to take a step down...may just stick with the Volvo mystery fluid after all.

[jbl]

The Volvo fluid is JWS 3309. Check the latest technet note 40-04 about fluids for transmissions and AWD Volvos.

Heres the copy for it:

NO: 40-04
DATE: 10-13-2005
MODEL/YEAR: All Models
SUBJECT: Transmission and AWD Lubricants
REFERENCE: Owners Manual and VIDA
Application Note Part Number
• 5 and 6 Speed Automatic Transmissions
-AW55
-TF80-SC
This fluid is also recommended to address two
complaints on the AW 50-42:
•Harsh Lock-Up engagement/disengagement
(SB 43-0029)
•Squeaking noise during low speed turns
(TNN 43-11)
JWS 3309
The only oil approved for the 5 and 6
speed automatic transmissions is JWS
3309. None of the other fluids available
on the market have been evaluated by
Volvo to meet the requirements of
these specific transmissions regarding:
• Shift quality
• Slipping lock-up functionality
• Transmission durability
1161540 (1 liter)
1161640 (4 liter)

[MadeInJapan]

I see what you've posted...even if it and the Mobil-1 both are JWS3309, one is synthetic (Volvo's...as confirmed by them to me) and Mobil-1's isn't (confirmed by Mobil Oil Co. to me). You can use either, I know...but if it were me, I would rather stay with the more expensive synthetic ATF.

[MrTippy]

MadeInJapan:

Mind if I ask who/where at Volvo you spoke to? As we have been through a lot with the synthetic vs. not in the motor oil topics elsewhere , the same "arguments" hold true for ATF: "what is really meant by "non-syn" and does it matter... Do we really want to go there?

If the lubricant meets the performance spec, it is ok. And, I am a little suspect about the ATF syn vs. not determination as Volvo doesn't make the transmissions, the ATF is spec'd by tranny mfr, and they don't make ATF. The ATF is manufactured by a lube/oil company for them according to their performance spec (not composition spec), which for a new transmission is probably a joint creation by the tranny mfr and the oil company.

So, the questions that I would ask are: who made the Volvo ATF, who else is spec'ing the Monbil 3309, and what does Aisin say?--nbut, good luck getting an answer to any one of those. Mobil has everything to lose and nothing to gain by making only a marginal product. I would have no qualms about using it.

To any one who has used the mobil, how does the car run now?

[MadeInJapan]

Mr. Tippy...the Volvo service department told me and assured me that their ATF WAS synthetic. The Mobile Oil spokesman I spoke with by phone told me their's wasn't and added that he didn't know who made the ATF for Volvo. And, I'm not disagreeing with you. I think if the ATF is changed systematically, it wouldn't matter if it were synthetic or not. Personally, though- I stand behind using as much sysnthetic fluids in my Volvo's as possible, so that's my personal choice which I'm not advocating for everyone....don't want to get into that debate AGAIN, like you already said. However, I too am curious as to how the cars with the Mobil 3309 ATF are running and how it holds up over the long haul.

[MrTippy]

Hey Made...

I did a little checking on the 3309 and, yes, Mobil literature implies it's a "conventional" base stock fluid. The Mobil 1 ATF is "synthetic."

However, for tranny's and difs, maybe some caution is in order. While Mobiil 1 atf performance may be up to snuff, since it is not JWS 3309 spec'd http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-En....aspx, we don't have the info to make a determination.

An iteresting link with mobil 1 atf experiences: http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/...art=7 . Seems to be a little debate on the net about the suitability of syn ATF. Some of it is reminiscent of syn. vs conventional in the crankcase and we all know where that ends. However, for the tranny, I go back to the spec differences; I want to know that the additive packages are in order.

With all due respect to your dealer, I would like to see a tech data sheet and msds for the product.

What we need is a good test with proper controls...

[MadeInJapan]

I agree with you...wonder if Bob the Oil guy or whatever his name is would be up for the challenge?

[MrTippy]

Here we go, at the bottom of the page: http://www.castrol.com/liveass...d.pdf

[MrTippy]

Idemitsu is an oe for Nissan (Toyota, Honda too). Here is their Toyota type-4 product (packaged for Cottman) which I suspect is also JWS 3309. I've emailed them, lets see what comes back.

http://www.idemitsu-usa.com/it...9&b=1

11/29/06: this has yet to be confirmed; the website looks to have been changed. So until further notice, this product is not an option...


Modified by MrTippy at 12:25 PM 11-29-2006

[MadeInJapan]

Interesting, Mr. Tippy. Would be realy nice to find out what the Volvo ATF really is and who makes it for them. Wonder if there is information somewhere out there...maybe on some Swedish sites....would take someone who can read the Swede.

[Nato740]

Lets put this all to rest now. There are many types and brands of ATF. Common ones were type F and dextron and the stuff Chry used for years!. Now it has gotten more compicated ONLY in that there are many more types out there. But it also has gotten very easy if you READ your manuals and or see a bottle of the stuff the dealer has for you to use. MUCH LIKE the motor oil these days ALL have a API Code so does Trans fluid of the JWS code. SO if your manual said you use Motor Oil of API SE/CE rateing you use one that has a E or higher rating you can go fowards to F/G/H/I/J/K but never back to D! BTW S is for GAS ENG and C is for DIESEL use. The same is true for trans fluid for the most part. You use TYPE F in a car that calls for it. Dex I II III in one that calls for that. CHry has a a few, 7021 being one or something and that is what you use in them. The NEW SYNTHS have a NUMBER CODE so if you need JWS 3309 then any brand that siad it meets that code/formula is what you can use. I have never seen a Number Code like 3309 or 7021 or 2465 that was NOT a SYNTH formula. That is WHY they went to the NEW CODES. If MOBIL 1 has the SWF 3309 on the bottle it is ok. Let me know the name of the guy at Mobil that told you it was not a SYNTH if it was MARKED SWF 3309 too. If not don't use it jsut like you will not use anything other then one labeled 7021 in your chrys. Or you will see the dealer soon. But that said you do NOT have to buy $$$$ from dealer when there is a Autozone alternative on the shelf marked 3309 is all. You can by form dealer if you like, if not into your car and doing a little painless research. It is not brain surgury. But if your a DIY'er then you are doing the work in the first place. And very lazy if you do not take five mins before to read and get the right CODE oils at a very much cheaper $ then dealer sometimes.

BTW jbi Thanks for the FWD/AWD trans updated spec sheet. But it does not SAY that SWF 3309 is synth. Just that it is the update and only NEWLY approved fluid to get rid of the problems they mention. I am SURE it is synth, but not said. Much like Chry went with Dex/mercon III and then came out with 7021 as a upgrade for lockup and shift troubles in the mid 90's. Synths jsut do a better job these days all around in newer cars.

Modified by Nato740 at 11:49 AM 12-14-2005

[MadeInJapan]

All nicely put but there are no marking on the "new" Volvo bottle of ATF...thus the confusion. The owner's manual just says to only use Volvo ATF. Don't really even know where the 3309 comes from but many cliam that's the one that's needed.

[MrTippy]

Made:

Check out the german data sheet for Castrol Transmax J (my post above), it is spec'd JWS3309 (the Aisin-Warner spec for the aw55 tranny atf) and recommended for Volvo, Nissan, and Toyota, to name three. Castrol is Volvo's motor oil oem and I would not be surprised if they make the atf for Volvo. I have a lot more info and will post it after I get back from the desert.

At the risk of being called a secular humanist: Happy Holidays, all.

[MadeInJapan]

Cool, MrTippy, and thanks!