2006 S40 2.4i Intermittent Stalling (p0101) - Page 2
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    1. #36
      Quote Originally Posted by evy0311 View Post
      Yeah it's downstream the MAF. The hose I hear leaking is the one that connects to the top of the manifold and has a red ring around it where it connects.
      Well I've got good and bad news for you... my engine makes a very very similar if not the same sucking noise near the throttle body/vacuum hoses. I can take a video/audio if you want (I only have an iphone for a camera)

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    3. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by mklinker View Post
      Well I've got good and bad news for you... my engine makes a very very similar if not the same sucking noise near the throttle body/vacuum hoses. I can take a video/audio if you want (I only have an iphone for a camera)
      Yeah if you could take a video that'd be awesome. I just used my phone's camera to film mine as well. We did have the car in at an independent repair shop, and they stated that they found a leak at the hose I describe and you can see in my video.

      They sealed it up with tape, but I'm not sure if it's still holding well. This weekend if the weather is good well check it all out as well as the TB. A video would be great though!!

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      2006 S40 2.4i FWD

    4. #38
      Quote Originally Posted by evy0311 View Post
      Yeah if you could take a video that'd be awesome.


      Last edited by mklinker; 03-07-2017 at 07:58 AM.

    5. #39
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      Hmm. So this does seem to be the same hissing noise.

      Also, another quick update. As I was picking a friend up today I sat out in my car for a minute with the radio off and all just with it sitting in park at idle. As I was sitting, I could noticably hear the engine RPMs being rough. This didn't show very well on the gauge however.

      Basically it sounded rough, then the RPMs would drop (by 50RPMs at most) and then surge back up by like 100RPMs, and then come back down to where it was first. When this all happens, you can feel a very strong vibration in the car when it pushes up in RPMs. You can hear it audibly and feel it, as well as see it on the gauge a bit. I took a video to show you, although you can't hear the sounds as the microphone on my phone wasn't all that good.

      Here's the link to the video: https://goo.gl/photos/zN1gUWpdSY93EASQ9

      Could this "surging" or "hunting" at idle be the throttle body, or is there a chance it could also be a vacuum leak as well?

      I feel like it's the TB, but want to make sure it's also not a vacuum leak.

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      2006 S40 2.4i FWD

    6. #40
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      Update (IMPORTANT): So for my birthday, I got the Volva VIDA DiCE setup and have it running amazingly on my laptop.

      I decided to go ahead and do a test of the throttle body or "throttle valve" as VIDA calls it. These cars don't have an electronic throttle body, just a valve that has an attached throttle position sensor. Inside of VIDA it allows you to tell the TB a predefined value to open to. Below is a video of my TB being tested through VIDA. The car is off in position 2, and im just opening and closing it to 25%, then 50%, and the last one is 100%. When opening to 100%, you can hear a very noticeable sound that sounds as if its scraping, and when i leave it there at 100%, you can listen close and hear the butterfly valve clicking back and forth inside of the throttle body bore.

      NOTE: I have edited the audio in this video so that my phone can pick up the sound and its audible, but in person it is very audible even with the hood closed.
      Video: https://goo.gl/photos/gt27nvALuztKfbCWA

      Is this normal? Also, the throttle position sensor itself seems to be about 2% off. When opening to 50%, the sensor reports back around 48% open (100%, 98% reported). Is this normal also?


      Also I have an image below that contains 5 different parameters from the engine on a short drive I went on. The image below has a short snippet of the drive.


      Graph Key:
      • Blue - Engine Speed (RPM)
      • Black - Short Term Fuel Trim
      • Purple - Long Term Fuel Trim
      • Red - Throttle Position, circuit 1
      • Green - Throttle Position, circuit 2

      Maybe this graph will help diagnose the issue as well.


      If anyone else has VIDA and can run this test let me know, or if anyone has any insight please let me know as well!
      2006 S40 2.4i FWD

    7. #41
      So something to consider is running this test with the engine on using the gas pedal. Monitor the data of commanded versus actual and see what it does. There is a large amount of wind force pushing on the TB and the actuator may be strong enough to get it close when it's off but show a larger gap while you're sitting there with the car running. 2% clearly isn't enough to cause a CEL, but you gotta wonder what the % limit is to trigger a CEL.
      2006 Volvo S40 AWD T5 M66 - Dusty Rusty
      2012 Subaru Outback 2.5i CVT - Slowmobile - CAI only, Powerstop Rotors+Pads.
      1996 HD Electra Glide - Big Bertha 10:1 Pistons; EV13 Cam: Ultima Digital Ignition; Buell Head Conversion; E85 Carb Tuned;

    8. #42
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      That's what I did in the test that was linked in the image I attached. The image that I had attached was all data recorded throughout a drive. The graph is showing only a small window of all of the data, but I just realized something... If you look at the image I attached, the very last value it recorded (while pulling into my driveway) was 0.31% open in the throttle body. This was recorded with the engine idle at 746 RPM. This happened right after pulling into my driveway, which is on a slope, meaning I have to give the engine quite a bit of gas when pulling in.

      Could the data shown in the bottom right stating that it was open 0.31% mean a bad throttle body? Or could it still be a vacuum leak?

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      2006 S40 2.4i FWD

    9. #43
      Yeah, I think it points to either an existing vacuum leak or the TB is bad. The reason you can't determine one or the other is because the assumption that the reports on that graph are correct.

      Typically vacuum leaks result in an odd rise in RPM's or a lean close-circuit idle not having to give it more gas to get up a hill.

      However that 0.31% and having to give it a sign that it is closing too much and when you had to give it quite a bit of gas which shows that it didn't reopen quickly to give you the gas you asked for. That might be the key to your stalling issues right there.
      2006 Volvo S40 AWD T5 M66 - Dusty Rusty
      2012 Subaru Outback 2.5i CVT - Slowmobile - CAI only, Powerstop Rotors+Pads.
      1996 HD Electra Glide - Big Bertha 10:1 Pistons; EV13 Cam: Ultima Digital Ignition; Buell Head Conversion; E85 Carb Tuned;

    10. #44
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      Quote Originally Posted by avenger09123 View Post
      Yeah, I think it points to either an existing vacuum leak or the TB is bad. The reason you can't determine one or the other is because the assumption that the reports on that graph are correct.

      Typically vacuum leaks result in an odd rise in RPM's or a lean close-circuit idle not having to give it more gas to get up a hill.

      However that 0.31% and having to give it a sign that it is closing too much and when you had to give it quite a bit of gas which shows that it didn't reopen quickly to give you the gas you asked for. That might be the key to your stalling issues right there.
      Yeah and it seems that when I come to a stop the idle speed either drops or rises. It's always random. Whenever I start the car from a cold start the idle hovers pretty high and then doesn't drop very far until I shift into drive. The TB is original and at 118k miles I think it might make sense to replace it either way. We're also going to replace the TB gasket as well. I'll get back with you when we order it from Amazon (438$). Thank you for your help so far.

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      2006 S40 2.4i FWD

    11. #45
      Have you tried a new TB yet? When I come to a stop, my consistently drops for a second and I am worried it is getting close to stalling out.

    12. #46
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      Another update: So i went ahead and tested some more values and readings from inside of VIDA while I was driving. Here's what I found:

      My readings for the "throttle angle - actual value" and "throttle value - desired value" are very far off. And I do mean very very far off. I'll attach some images below with different views of the graph that I took while driving.

      The other thing that is interesting is my "O2 sensor lambda" value changes drastically. For those of you that don't know, lambda is equivalent to the air to fuel ratio. 1 lambda = a perfect 14.7:1 air to fuel ratio. This value fluctuates a lot. When slowing down, the lambda would drop below a perfect 1.00. This means that the mixture would be running rich. When accelerating, the lambda would go up above 1 (around 1.5). 1.5 lambda is equivalent to a 22.1:1 air to fuel ratio (way too lean). This can cause damage and a loss of power.

      Now correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the air to fuel ratio inside of an engine remain more constant than it does on the pictures I've attached below? Is this my sign that the TB is choking the engine of oxygen, cause my issues??

      Images:

      Key:
      -Blue = engine speed
      -Green = Mass air flow g/s
      -Red = Throttle Angle, Actual Value
      -Black = Throttle Angle, Desired Value
      -Purple = O2 Sensor front Lambda

      Based on these two images, and the videos and all I've made a few posts ago, does this point to the TB? Keep in mind we've already changed the O2 sensor so it can't be a faulty signal. And should the Air to fuel ratio change as much as it is? It seems to be lagging behind almost. Another thing that makes me think it's the TB is if I am at a stop, punch it hard to around 4k RPMs and then completely let off the gas, the car almost lags behind and stays at those RPMs for a couple of seconds before coming down off of it. Maybe this is normal. But I'm not sure.

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    13. #47
      Junior Member Raphmass24's Avatar
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      If I see correctly, your scale on your graph for the actual throttle position is weird, it goes from -15% to 1296% which makes no sense. It seems to me as if the scale was corrected, the two values would match pretty well.

      As for your lambda ratio, if you were in closed loop during that time frame, 0.5 and 1.5 seems way off. What i find most weird is how stable the sensor value is when it reaches those points. Altough our cars use O2 sensor and not wideband air fuel sensors, it is normal to see a great fluctuation here and there for a short burst of time, especially if you car is having another problem somewhere that might confuse it. Does your car gives you any DTC relative to air/fuel ratio?
      Last edited by Raphmass24; 03-27-2017 at 12:47 PM.

    14. #48
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      I was in closed loop during both frames as I had driven the car on the highway and had been driving for well over 30 minutes. Also, the red line is the actual throttle value, not the desired. So the throttle was reading roughly 0% to 100% (the red markings and red line). The black line is the throttle angle, desired value. I didn't even realized the scale the desired value was set on. Why would the desired value be so low (negative even)? I'n not sure why the scale is as messed up as it is. I will try and do another test today. To me the Lambda seems to be the biggest thing that bothers me here. I know it should slightly run lean and then run rich and back and forth, but on the graph it shows periods of constantly running lean and rich... Which makes me believe the Throttle body is lagging behind so to speak. Am I correct on this? Could a "lagging" TB cause the Lambda to read incorrectly and change the air to fuel ratio?
      2006 S40 2.4i FWD

    15. #49
      Junior Member Raphmass24's Avatar
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      It shouldn't. Basically a lagging throttle could give you a DTC but should not cause "lambda" to fluctuate this much. The ECM should add the proper amount of gas even if the throttle isn't opening as it should.

      You should try and grab data with a corrected graph scale so we can determine if your throttle is acting up.

      Also, do you have any other DTC than P0101. I'm asking because I would suspect the computer to notice a problem with your air/fuel ratio before you do.

    16. #50
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      Nope, the only DTC I have is P0101. Its been there since we bought the car last year. I'll really fast add all of the stuff we've tried to change in the car in hopes to fix this issue. Here it is:

      From Original Post: "We replaced the MAF sensor, MAP sensor, FPS sensor, spark plugs, cleaned the throttle body, replaced the O2 (oxygen) sensor, and also replaced the coolant temperature sensor and thermostat (coolant problem). Anyways, we've had it into a Volvo certified service shop (not dealer) and they tested for vacuum leaks.They found one and sealed it with tape. They also replaced another hose they suspected could be leaking. We ourselves (my dad and I) also replaced the PCV hose when changing the sparkplugs. At one point a P0172 (too rich) code came up, but it cleared after replacing the coolant temp sensor and thermostat. The stalling issue did seem to go away for a while (with the RPMs still dropping when coming to a stop) but alas, the check engine light remained on with the P0101 code."

      So as you can see we've pretty much replaced everything that we can that would cause the P101 code (except the TB). I know this is a long shot, but could it be something with the engine computer itself? Could it be the ECU going bad?
      2006 S40 2.4i FWD

    17. #51
      Junior Member Raphmass24's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by evy0311 View Post
      So as you can see we've pretty much replaced everything that we can that would cause the P101 code (except the TB). I know this is a long shot, but could it be something with the engine computer itself? Could it be the ECU going bad?
      It could be the ECU as it could be everytime someone has a problem. It is a long shot and for now we'll consider it to be good. You should really smoke test your intake system to see if you have any vacuum leak. I don't usually consider a leak sealed with tape as a proper repair. What I find weird is that your P0101 code doesn't clear out but your MAF readings seems good.

    18. #52
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      We took it in late last year to an independent repair shop in the area. Volvo certified and all. They did tests for vacuum leaks but never smoke tested- somehow they said they found a vacuum leak on this hose here:

      I'm not sure if there is actually a leak here or not, but they sealed it with tape and said it was good. The code came back and they were stumped. The owner said he has been working on Volvo's for over 30 years and he was stumped.

      We are able to clear the MAF code manually using an OBD reader as well as VIDA, but it usually comes back. I can go ahead and drive around for a few to capture a freeze frame so that I can tell you just when exactly the code sets, what else is going on.

      If there is no vacuum leaks, is it possible that there could be some other issue with the intake boot after the MAF? Or would the P0101 code set if the leak is after the MAF?

      The other thing too is that the indy shop also checked the electrical connection to the MAF sensor and even tried a couple dfferent ones. They sealed all wires up and cleaned the connectors, but still, no dice.
      2006 S40 2.4i FWD

    19. #53
      Junior Member Raphmass24's Avatar
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      A vacuum leak anywhere after MAF could cause problem. Good idea about the freeze frame and you should really try smoke testing it (a cigarette can be sufficient sometimes)

    20. #54
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      I'll actually go out now and clear the code, then drive around and see when the code comes back on. Also, do you know if a can of canned smoke would work? Might be easier as nobody in my family smokes.

      Would adding smoke into the system cause any issues with tar or anything or would that be more long term?

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    21. #55
      Junior Member Raphmass24's Avatar
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      Adding smoke shouldn't cause any problem if it is a light smoke not filled with any heavy particles. I'm not sure about what type of canned smoke you are talking about but I would think it should work

    22. #56
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      Okay good. Also, what values would you recommend I have on a graph when I run tests? I can do up to 5 per graph.

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    23. #57
      Junior Member Raphmass24's Avatar
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      Short term fuel trim
      Lambda
      Desired angle
      Actual angle
      MAF

    24. #58
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      Will do. I'll report back in a bit with what I find.

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    25. #59
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      So I ran through the testing and all and here's what I found.

      These images were captured from data BEFORE I cleared the check engine light (DTC):


      These images were captured from data AFTER I cleared the check engine light (DTC):


      And then here is the data from when the DTC was set for P0101:


      Also, not sure if this means anything, but I have a fault or two relating to the function of lights and something else, and the DDM (but everything works fine). The IAM DTC is correct as my radio is going out. But this is unrelated.



      If there is anything else I can provide just let me know. I tried to fix the scale of the graph but to no avail. The key is available in the bottom right hand corner of each image for reference. When I get in I'll take a look at the graphs myself. Thanks again

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    26. #60
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      Another quick update: (hopefully this might shed some light). So I popped the hood when I got home to just see if there was anything visual I have been missing. And I noticed this time and the last time I had the hood open (about a week ago) that the oil filler cap was slightly turned off. It was still on and connected, but it was turned about a quarter of a turn both times loose. I had to tighten it back down and then it was fine. Could this be something related to some sort of leak in the PCV system? I know people have had oil caps and stuff blown off from it.

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    27. #61
      That's funny, I have the DDM and CEM faults same as you.

      The DIM fault I am not sure what that is, but I'm fairly sure it'll have absolutely zero to do with your stall.

      The IAM fault I have never seen that one, but if your AM/FM radio still works then no biggie.

      The ECM is still the only one.

      I was looking at your snapshots, and many of those readings are the same as mine. The design of the PCV system means that any air that makes it up past the valve seals gets sucked up by the vacuum created in the lower crankcase through that hose in the top. I don't believe this to be the source of your issues. as the air doesn't get burned but gets put back past the throttlebody and isn't a large amount even with the cap off.
      2006 Volvo S40 AWD T5 M66 - Dusty Rusty
      2012 Subaru Outback 2.5i CVT - Slowmobile - CAI only, Powerstop Rotors+Pads.
      1996 HD Electra Glide - Big Bertha 10:1 Pistons; EV13 Cam: Ultima Digital Ignition; Buell Head Conversion; E85 Carb Tuned;

    28. #62
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      The IAM fault is true as my CD player has been going out so the FM signal is very weak on it. No biggie though. And yeah all of the other faults have nothing to do with the stall stuff thankfully.

      Also, you said that many of the readings are the same as yours- is it possible that you and I can compare data through VIDA so that I can see what the correct values should be? I can't imagine they'd be too much different between the T5 and 2.4i. What does yours idle at? mine hovers between 700-800RPM but is usually around 750. I thought they were supposed to idle closer to 900 but maybe I'm wrong.

      The code though that is related to the MAF (P0101) translates in Volvo OBD language to "Flow too low." Meaning that the flow reading from the MAF sensor is reading "too low." What would this mean?
      2006 S40 2.4i FWD

    29. #63
      Junior Member Raphmass24's Avatar
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      The MAF is seeing less air flow than the o2 sensor which probably means you have air entering somewhere after maf

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    30. #64
      Junior Member Raphmass24's Avatar
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      If I had an vacuum leam repaired with electrical tape you know where id be looking

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    31. #65
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      I agree... I think that's for sure the first place well check. The hose is 200$ so I want to make sure that that's exactly what it is first. We've replaced a couple other vacuum hoses so I doubt that could be it.

      I also suspect that the intake boot that goes from the MAF sensor to the TB might be leaky too just because it has a dimple on the side which might also be a puncture. Can't see it visibly but you never know. That's 9$ so a much cheaper fix.

      Hopefully I'll have time to check this all out tomorrow. Any other alternatives to smoking the system that don't involve using cigarettes or canned smoke? Any other way to generate smoke?

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    32. #66
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      Pleased to report that I ordered a new throttle body for the car for 300$ on ebay (got a really good deal). Its BRAND new in the box and all. It I believe is scheduled to be here wednesday. When it gets here we'll be installing it and will report back how it affects the issue I've been having as well as how it affects things like performance, throttle response, etc. Hopefully this fixes it but if not then we'll be checking for vacuum leaks.

      Only grabbed the throttle body first because we found it so cheap. Will keep you guys updated.
      2006 S40 2.4i FWD

    33. #67
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      So to our luck... the new throttle body did not solve the issue. At first she seemed to drive great, and then the check engine light popped back on, with the same P0101 code. Ideas?

      I want to check for vacuum leaks, but know that can be extensive. Could it be electrical?
      2006 S40 2.4i FWD

    34. #68
      Does your vacuum pump run constantly?

    35. #69
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      Quote Originally Posted by mklinker View Post
      Does your vacuum pump run constantly?
      I can usually hear it run after the car is off, but don't know how to tell when it's running if the car is on because the car is louder than it. I do know that it's really hot to the touch after I turn the car off.

      How would I check if it's running?

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    36. #70
      Quote Originally Posted by evy0311 View Post
      I can usually hear it run after the car is off, but don't know how to tell when it's running if the car is on because the car is louder than it. I do know that it's really hot to the touch after I turn the car off.

      How would I check if it's running?

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      Open the hood, grab the hose going into it... you will feel the pump vibrating.

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