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    1. #36
      Quote Originally Posted by Bmo Pete View Post
      Volvo wanting to be a luxury make? Here we go again....

      Guys, not sure what planet you're from, but Volvo has always been a luxury brand; at least where I hail from in the Mid-Atlantic US. As a kid of the 70's, I can recall the (frumpy looking) Volvo's (240's) being in a higher, pricier category than the typical middle class American or Japanese car. Hell, Audi was non-existent, and mostly wealthy cats drove big Mercs and Bimmers. Volvo didn't have a large luxury car offering then, and still does not. Volvo pricing was certainly on par with more luxurious offerings from Caddy, Lincoln, Chrysler and Toyota (Cressida). Can you honestly deny that the newer ultra-bricks like the 700 series of the 80's were competing against other midsize Euro premium/luxury cars? I think many of you don't have a clue, have short memories, or are reminiscing about Uncle Joe's 1980 base 240D stick he picked-up second hand somewhere?






      What has changed?
      No that's not what I'm saying. Volvo has historically had a specific blend of European rugged utility with some luxury and a bit of sportiness that's quite different than the ranks of BMW / Mercedes (not the brands you mention), who have been at the top of the luxury heap for decades. What I am saying is that Volvo seems to be moving away from the utility side of the brand in exchange for trying to position itself closer to BMW/ Mercedes. It's not new for Volvo. They have been trying this for a long time -- and never succeeded -- but with the latest round the movement away from the utility side of the equation bothers me enough to think that this might be the end of a long line of Volvos to me, and I suspect I am not alone in that. Especially looking at the sales numbers of the S90 (and possibly the XC90 if the sales don't pick up this year), it seems that when Volvo does this, they fail to gain the high luxury status while losing the faithful.

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    3. #37
      Member Bmo Pete's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by wasaabi View Post
      No that's not what I'm saying. Volvo has historically had a specific blend of European rugged utility with some luxury and a bit of sportiness that's quite different than the ranks of BMW / Mercedes (not the brands you mention), who have been at the top of the luxury heap for decades. What I am saying is that Volvo seems to be moving away from the utility side of the brand in exchange for trying to position itself closer to BMW/ Mercedes. It's not new for Volvo. They have been trying this for a long time -- and never succeeded -- but with the latest round the movement away from the utility side of the equation bothers me enough to think that this might be the end of a long line of Volvos to me, and I suspect I am not alone in that. Especially looking at the sales numbers of the S90 (and possibly the XC90 if the sales don't pick up this year), it seems that when Volvo does this, they fail to gain the high luxury status while losing the faithful.
      Volvo is absolutely not moving away from the utility side. Utility = XC40, XC60 & XC90. They will have a full range of premium utility minded crossover/SUV vehicles; they don't need the V90CC to satisfy such demand. The XC60 is the new XC70. Even if they maintained a more practical XC70/V90CC form, a tall square back V90 will not, can not, compete against an XC60, X3, GLC, or F-Pace's more complete package. The XC70 certainly could no longer. An Allroad or E300 wagon can not either. At this stage, Volvo does not have the luxury for obvious model overlap or numerous niche varieties to cover minimal sales opportunity.

      However, a luxurious, svelte, V90CC will better satisfy the elite country club, hunt club and ski resort niche. It has few competitors in that market segment, yet a higher profit margin per unit, so their's opportunity for success if they can conquer some of that lucrative market. My main complaint is the lack of a real luxury Volvo engine option, for this segment. If all other variables are equal, the T6-e will not compete favorably against a BMW, Audi or MB turbo 6 (gas, diesel or hybrid). It is just too unrefined for this segment. Counting on less sophisticated consumers in this elite class, who would be oblivious or disregard this sensation, is a bit unrealistic and naive. Volvo will once again be chipping away at that net revenue with price cuts and incentives in order to compete. If Volvo can't get the cylinder count back up, then they need an all out effort to better refine and mask this engine's raucous nature.

      I still say, that the SPA XC60 will be the best all around premium two box on the market, so the V90CC is just filler at the show room and website.
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    4. #38
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      Let's see? A 1998 V70XC AWD wagon cost $35,600. I ran the inflation calculator from 1999 to 2016. It came out to $51,286. That would be very comparable to an V90XC that runs about $55,300. And you get a lot more safety features, and luxury as well. Not really that much of a price increase.
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    5. #39
      Junior Member Sven787's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tostik View Post
      Let's see? A 1998 V70XC AWD wagon cost $35,600. I ran the inflation calculator from 1999 to 2016. It came out to $51,286. That would be very comparable to an V90XC that runs about $55,300. And you get a lot more safety features, and luxury as well. Not really that much of a price increase.
      Exactly... I feel like folks are equating "sticker shock" with Volvo not caring about utility anymore. The new V90CC promotional vids completely refute the sense that utility has been forgotten - I have yet to see a BMW or Audi commercial come close to capturing that need to get out and do more with your car. BMW and Audi ads are about performance and tech above all else.

      My 2007 XC90 stickered for $50-$55K new. Inflation considered, a new one at $65k seems like a steal for how far they have come. Yes there may be a year or so of "break in" period where every scratch matters, but once that wears off I imagine it could handle everything my current one takes and then some. I think the only reason Volvos became more attainable and less equated with luxury is because they went so long without a major refresh, so pricing remained stagnant and didn't follow the inflation trend. Brand new first gen XC90s were selling for less than XC60s toward the end because they simply could not justify a premium. I have always considered Volvo a luxury brand, they just lost their footing (and funding) for a considerable chunk of time.


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    6. #40
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sven787 View Post
      Exactly... I feel like folks are equating "sticker shock" with Volvo not caring about utility anymore. The new V90CC promotional vids completely refute the sense that utility has been forgotten - I have yet to see a BMW or Audi commercial come close to capturing that need to get out and do more with your car. BMW and Audi ads are about performance and tech above all else.

      My 2007 XC90 stickered for $50-$55K new. Inflation considered, a new one at $65k seems like a steal for how far they have come. Yes there may be a year or so of "break in" period where every scratch matters, but once that wears off I imagine it could handle everything my current one takes and then some. I think the only reason Volvos became more attainable and less equated with luxury is because they went so long without a major refresh, so pricing remained stagnant and didn't follow the inflation trend. Brand new first gen XC90s were selling for less than XC60s toward the end because they simply could not justify a premium. I have always considered Volvo a luxury brand, they just lost their footing (and funding) for a considerable chunk of time.
      Good points, especially about Volvo going so long without a major refresh of nearly all of it's models, and thus being unable to command a premium price. But the XC60, which came out in 2010 did great, and probably saved Volvo. The new XC90, S90, V90 and XC60 definitely deserve a luxury price point.
      Last edited by Tostik; 04-01-2017 at 04:03 PM.
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    7. #41
      Member Bmo Pete's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tostik View Post
      Let's see? A 1998 V70XC AWD wagon cost $35,600. I ran the inflation calculator from 1999 to 2016. It came out to $51,286. That would be very comparable to an V90XC that runs about $55,300. And you get a lot more safety features, and luxury as well. Not really that much of a price increase.
      Good luck finding a V90CC for $55K. I did an Autotrader search for 200 miles from my house and found 60 V90CC's in inventory. 3 of them were under $60K before discounts; 2 white and 1 black. Most were mid to upper $60's. This car is meant for luxury touring, not hauling wood or bricks. Look to the XC60 and XC90 if you need utility.

      I expect most loaded (non-T8) SPA XC60's could be had for under $60K; may even squeeze in the $2K all airbag suspension for that. What's that, you can't get a 4 wheel airbag suspension in the V90CC? Hmm.
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    8. #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Bmo Pete View Post
      Good luck finding a V90CC for $55K. I did an Autotrader search for 200 miles from my house and found 60 V90CC's in inventory. 3 of them were under $60K before discounts; 2 white and 1 black. Most were mid to upper $60's. This car is meant for luxury touring, not hauling wood or bricks. Look to the XC60 and XC90 if you need utility.

      I expect most loaded (non-T8) SPA XC60's could be had for under $60K; may even squeeze in the $2K all airbag suspension for that. What's that, you can't get a 4 wheel airbag suspension in the V90CC? Hmm.
      I found the same thing when I did a search. Prices in mid-60's. XC60 trunk is too small for my uses. I would look at XC90 but I like a wagon not an SUV. For the price of V90 CC we are within a few grand of an E-class wagon 4-matic. Not that I want that, but it doesn't make sense to me. What I want is a new updated version of my P3 XC70 which combines excellent high-speed driving comfort and stability, large cargo capacity, excellent off-road capabilities, and an overall balance of ruggedness, utility, and European driving feel.

    9. #43
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      I'm one of those former Volvo owners (starting in the early '80s through the mid 2000s) who misses the practical utility with a touch of luxury of the old Volvo brand. I was ready to stick with Volvo when I went car shopping in 2015 and found back seats that seemed cramped, small trunks and a general abandonment of practicality in exchange for a focus on a type of luxury that didn't appeal to me. Price itself wasn't the issue, rather just what I was getting for my money.

      While I'm not yet ready to trade cars, I guess I should take a look at the current models and the XC60 when it arrives. However, in just reading and looking, it seems Volvo has doubled down on the factors that left me cold last time around. Hope I'm wrong but it doesn't seem likely. But, one can hope.

    10. #44
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      Quote Originally Posted by mlsstl View Post
      I'm one of those former Volvo owners (starting in the early '80s through the mid 2000s) who misses the practical utility with a touch of luxury of the old Volvo brand. I was ready to stick with Volvo when I went car shopping in 2015 and found back seats that seemed cramped, small trunks and a general abandonment of practicality in exchange for a focus on a type of luxury that didn't appeal to me. Price itself wasn't the issue, rather just what I was getting for my money.

      While I'm not yet ready to trade cars, I guess I should take a look at the current models and the XC60 when it arrives. However, in just reading and looking, it seems Volvo has doubled down on the factors that left me cold last time around. Hope I'm wrong but it doesn't seem likely. But, one can hope.
      "Predictions are very hard, especially about the future."--Yogi Berra
      2006 2.5T AWD XC90 / 2015.5 XC60 T5 (5 cyl) AWD, Platinum, Blis & Climate Package, 20 inch Pirellis, wood inlays with blonde interior (stunning), Flamenco Red (exterior)

      "Predictions are really hard, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra

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