Odd T8 charging behavior
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    1. #1
      Junior Member Bldrt8's Avatar
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      Odd T8 charging behavior

      Last night I plugged in with a nearly depleted battery, but this morning the cooling fan was running. Didn't think much of it, but when I went back out a couple hours later the fan was still running. The graph produced by my juicebox shows it was doing something for hours after it completed its main charge. Does it go through reconditioning cycles, did I configure something or is this expected? Normally that charge would be about 8kWh, but last night it was 11.5. Seems strange to run all night like this. Any thoughts?

      2017 XC90 T8 Inscription | Luminous Sand | Blond Interior (leather and carpet) | Vision | Conv | Climate

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    3. #2
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      Can't say I've seen 11.5. I will sometimes see 9 and change when preconditioning in extreme temps.

    4. #3
      Member Brutus99's Avatar
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      Maybe little off topic but have noticed few times my battery not charging to full 29 km when very cold. Last night only charged to 26 km when full is always 29 km. Is this normal??

      And also can't "top up" sometimes when it's down to 24 km and I plug it in, still shows 24 km an hour later and says "charging complete", weird... Again is cold outside.
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    6. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brutus99 View Post
      Maybe little off topic but have noticed few times my battery not charging to full 29 km when very cold. Last night only charged to 26 km when full is always 29 km. Is this normal??
      Are you seeing 26 and a full battery bar, or not a full battery bar? In extreme temps mine will show a couple fewer miles, but will also show full. In other words, it's charging to full, but the car knows that full won't go as far as it would in less extreme temps.

    7. #5
      Member phillipu's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zaxxon View Post
      Are you seeing 26 and a full battery bar, or not a full battery bar? In extreme temps mine will show a couple fewer miles, but will also show full. In other words, it's charging to full, but the car knows that full won't go as far as it would in less extreme temps.
      +1

      Was about to say the same thing.

    8. #6
      Junior Member Bldrt8's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zaxxon View Post
      Can't say I've seen 11.5. I will sometimes see 9 and change when preconditioning in extreme temps.
      I don't have a lot of charges yet, but I haven't seen anything like this before. The largest charges other than this one are in the 8-9 range and charge for 3-4 hours. This was 11.5kWh and 16 hours. Yes - that's right, 16 hours before juicy reported "plugged in" and not charging.

      My volt (r.i.p) never did anything like this, but it's quite different than the T8.

      Zaxxon, you have a juicebox right? Did you see anything like the pattern shown above on any of your charges?


      2017 XC90 T8 Inscription | Luminous Sand | Blond Interior (leather and carpet) | Vision | Conv | Climate
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    9. #7
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      Can't say I have. My typical looks something like this. Usually lower total usage because this example is a cold-weather precondition that used more than average.



      That said, I know that Teslas for exampl will periodically balance the pack via extended low-power topping off at the end of a session. Haven't seen the T8 do that, though.

      Here's a full charge on our Leaf for comparison... Similar profile to the usual T8 session aside from the higher power rate.


    10. #8
      Junior Member Bldrt8's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zaxxon View Post
      Can't say I have. My typical looks something like this. Usually lower total usage because this example is a cold-weather precondition that used more than average.


      Most of my charges look similar to this pattern, with exception of yesterday and one other, which was much shorter. I wonder if I'm having an issue with the charger not disconnecting power. Notice how the power cycles between 0 and .5. Is that a feasible reason for this issue?



      2017 XC90 T8 Inscription | Luminous Sand | Blond Interior (leather and carpet) | Vision | Conv | Climate
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    11. #9
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      My understanding is that with a J1772 plug the vehicle is always in control of current. No communication from the car, no current.

    12. #10
      Member Gary-16-Xc90's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bldrt8 View Post
      Most of my charges look similar to this pattern, with exception of yesterday and one other, which was much shorter. I wonder if I'm having an issue with the charger not disconnecting power. Notice how the power cycles between 0 and .5. Is that a feasible reason for this issue?

      2017 XC90 T8 Inscription | Luminous Sand | Blond Interior (leather and carpet) | Vision | Conv | Climate

      I have the ClipperCreek with JuiceNet. Mine is like Zaxxon's. [Also, if I do not precondition, it flatlines at 0 once the charge is at 100%. There is no follow-on surge that recharges the battery while the preconditioning consumes some of the battery.] Over six+ months, I have never seen any graph like BldRt8's.
      Last edited by Gary-16-Xc90; 03-16-2017 at 06:53 AM. Reason: Added preconditioning comment
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    13. #11
      Member Brutus99's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zaxxon View Post
      Are you seeing 26 and a full battery bar, or not a full battery bar? In extreme temps mine will show a couple fewer miles, but will also show full. In other words, it's charging to full, but the car knows that full won't go as far as it would in less extreme temps.
      Don't remember exactly what the battery bar showed if full but will keep an eye on it next time. Just weird because today it charged full 29 km even though temps are pretty similar outside as last night...
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    14. #12
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      I have noticed that mine takes longer to charge sometimes. I will come home and be nearly empty, plug in and look to see the estimated time to complete charge. Two hours later the battery is not fully charged and the estimated time is a couple hours later than when I plugged in. I am using a clipper creek evse 240V. I think this may be related to the cold. If I get home with a depleted battery and I had been using the ICE extensively it charges in the predicted 2 to 3 hour time. Could this just be related to the cold battery. When I look at my whole home electric usage by the hour it is clear that it was not drawing 3+Kw per hour to charge.

    15. #13
      Member Gary-16-Xc90's Avatar
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      On my ClipperCreek with JuiceNet and 240v, the draw after the first two hours drops from 3.3 to 1 and then tapers down to .5 then to 0 during the last half hour. I have not noticed anything about the cold weather and ICE impacting the charging rate. I think the projection of 2 additional hours is based on the low draw - the app not realizing that your battery is near 100%.
      Last edited by Gary-16-Xc90; 03-18-2017 at 10:18 AM.
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    16. #14
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      When it's very cold I have noticed the car drawing less at the start of a charge. Where it generally jumps to 3.7 kW within a minute of plugging in, it may instead take 5.

      Back to the original question: I did have this bizarre graph Thursday night. The car was only driven about 3 miles that day, but I still don't understand why it wanted zero charge. The dash showed that charging was complete despite having taken no charge, and the next morning the displayed range went from 18 to 14 almost immediately.

      To me that suggests that the car for some reason thought it was full despite the fact that it was not.


    17. #15
      Junior Member Bldrt8's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zaxxon View Post
      When it's very cold I have noticed the car drawing less at the start of a charge. Where it generally jumps to 3.7 kW within a minute of plugging in, it may instead take 5.

      Back to the original question: I did have this bizarre graph Thursday night. The car was only driven about 3 miles that day, but I still don't understand why it wanted zero charge. The dash showed that charging was complete despite having taken no charge, and the next morning the displayed range went from 18 to 14 almost immediately.

      To me that suggests that the car for some reason thought it was full despite the fact that it was not.

      That's odd. i haven't seen that on my t8 nor have I had a repeat of the charge cycle last week.

      Btw, do you know what those marks ('x') on the graph are meant to represent. They show on some, but not all of my graphs.
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    18. #16
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      I'm not sure. Can't recall seeing them in any session other than this one.

    19. #17
      it's not cold here at all and I have noticed a similar trend in my charging cycle. If I had to guess, it's some kind of battery conditioning.


    20. #18
      Junior Member Bldrt8's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zaxxon View Post
      I'm not sure. Can't recall seeing them in any session other than this one.
      Here's one from last week with them. I have an email into the juicebox team about the first graph. I'll ask them about the marks when they get back to me.




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    21. #19
      Junior Member Bldrt8's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by curtdept View Post
      it's not cold here at all and I have noticed a similar trend in my charging cycle. If I had to guess, it's some kind of battery conditioning.

      That's what it looks like to me, but it'd be nice to know when and how it determines to run through that program.


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    22. #20
      Member Gary-16-Xc90's Avatar
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      Are you suggesting that there is a conditioning cycle for the battery (as opposed to a "preconditioning" of the interior and battery)? It will be interesting to see what eMotorWerks says. I would expect Volvo controls the entire charging and conditioning process while JuiceNet and others are reporting the data and graphs.
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    23. #21
      Junior Member Bldrt8's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Gary-16-Xc90 View Post
      Are you suggesting that there is a conditioning cycle for the battery (as opposed to a "preconditioning" of the interior and battery)? It will be interesting to see what eMotorWerks says. I would expect Volvo controls the entire charging and conditioning process while JuiceNet and others are reporting the data and graphs.
      That's the guess, but I'm certainly open to other suggestions.

      I agree that the car is the one pulling the charge. At least that is how I read the spec. I'm hoping they at least have a idea. Next step will be volvo support.

    24. #22
      the only other theory I would have is the electronics waking up periodically overnight for OTA updates or uploads of vehicle telemetry or something. That would be weird though because the behaviour while somewhat repeating is inconsistent.

      Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

    25. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by curtdept View Post
      the only other theory I would have is the electronics waking up periodically overnight for OTA updates or uploads of vehicle telemetry or something. That would be weird though because the behaviour while somewhat repeating is inconsistent.

      Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
      That would use the 12V battery, though. Not the hybrid battery. Shouldn't show up on the EVSE.

    26. #24
      Member Gary-16-Xc90's Avatar
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      Having had my MY16 T8 since Feb. 1, 2016 and my JuiceNet and JuiceNet versions of ClipperCreek since early Oct. 2016, I have not seen the graph shown in PST #1, it will be interesting to hear what you learn.
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    27. #25
      I have a fairly consistent evidence of this back a few months.


    28. #26
      I had a service around Feb 4, this seems to be when it started.

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    29. #27
      Member Gary-16-Xc90's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by curtdept View Post
      I had a service around Feb 4, this seems to be when it started.

      Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
      Hmmm. What model year is yours? I have MY16 and last total upgrade was March 3, 2016.
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    30. #28
      2016

      Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

    31. #29
      Junior Member Bldrt8's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by curtdept View Post
      I had a service around Feb 4, this seems to be when it started.

      Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
      Mine was updated 3/6.


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    32. #30
      Junior Member Bldrt8's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Gary-16-Xc90 View Post
      Are you suggesting that there is a conditioning cycle for the battery (as opposed to a "preconditioning" of the interior and battery)? It will be interesting to see what eMotorWerks says. I would expect Volvo controls the entire charging and conditioning process while JuiceNet and others are reporting the data and graphs.
      The emotorwerks team responded today. Here is what they had to say:
      -------
      I heard back after a couple of the engineers discussed this and it looks like conditioning for the batteries.

      It seems that the Leaf, for example, will leave "pre-conditioning running forever if you start it from the app, but never turn it back off. If it's already charged, then it'll just engage and "charge" in that odd pattern forever, until unplugged." This could be similar with the Volvo but due to the sheer lack of Volvo xc90 drivers we have no history of this pattern.
      -------

      In both of my cases it resolved itself without intervention. I think I'll send something off to Volvo next to see if i can understand this mysterious (to me) behavior.



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