Google partners with Audi and Volvo for Android-based infotainment systems - Page 2
Username
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
    Results 36 to 57 of 57
    1. #36
      Quote Originally Posted by phillipu View Post
      In the Bloomberg article I posted, it does state that "Google [is] not taking any critical vehicle tracking information with the new system." I don't know what this means exactly and if it would allay Porsche's fears of their secret sauce performance data being protected or not.
      It is interesting to watch. Following typical Google way, google will learn things like which store/restaurant you go I think. Who knows what they are going to "do no evil".
      But we are all in some kind of matrix already. For me not living a privacy sensitive life, I probably don't care, same way I use Android phone.

    2. Remove Advertisements

      Advertisements
       

    3. #37
      More to think about implications of where this leads Source: Radio Free Mobile - http://www.radiofreemobile.com/googl...ek-gift-pt-ii/

      Tinkering with Android for cars is a dangerous game.
      • Ahead of its developer conference, Google i/o, Google has demonstrated another version of Android that will be able of running many more aspects of the car beyond infotainment.
      • While Android Auto is limited in terms of what it can do and the data that it can access, this version of Android for the car is much more deeply embedded.
      • As a result, I think it will have access to everything as the infotainment unit is the nerve centre of the vehicle where the 4 data networks in the car (CAN bus) meet.
      • This means that Google services such as Maps, Search and Assistant will be fully embedded in the car enabling these services to be far more contextual and relevant.
      • It also raises the possibility that Google will be able to suck all of the data out of the car, robbing the OEMs of one the most important pieces of exclusivity that they have.
      • Audi and Volvo have signed up to use this software which will be demonstrated on the Q8 and the V90 SUVs at Google i/o this week.
      The two most important issues are:
      First, Code control: Who is in control of this code is crucial to the outlook for the OEMs.
      • From the presentation, I get the impression that the manufacturers are nominally in control of the Android code going into their cars but I seriously doubt that they have done the implementation themselves.
      • This was most likely done by their tier 1 suppliers or even Google itself.
      • While this means that the OEMs will have control over software updates and feature releases, there are almost certainly going to be hooks in the code that Google can still use.
      Second, Google agreements: If the OEMs have a similar relationship with Google that the handset makers do, it is important to understand what the OEMs have agreed to.
      • Google controls Android through its agreements with the handset makers and given that the OEMs are getting Google services deeply embedded in their systems, something similar is likely to be demanded by Google.
      • Parts of those agreements are likely to include aspects of user interface design as well as the sharing of data.
      • I view this software as a replacement for the OEM designed software that resides in the head unit of the vehicle.
      • Android Auto and Car Play run on top of the OEM software but have limited access to the rest of the system.
      • This is likely to be the same such that CarPlay will still run as before but Android Auto will obviously be obsolete.
      • Google has said that the new software will not be draining the vehicle of data but I suspect that Google is referring to how the software behaves as it leaves the factory.
      • Once it is in the hands of the user and he has agreed to a pop message requesting access to data to improve Google services, the reality could be very different.
      • Sharing this data will make Google services on other devices better for the user but critically, this is the data that the OEM needs to hang onto in order to differentiate itself in all things digital in the car.
      • This is the risk of deploying software that has not been written in-house as the reality is that the OEMs will have no real idea about what they are deploying on what is becoming the most strategically important part of the vehicle.
      • Tesla and BMW are the only ones that seem to understand the importance of this which is why they are the only OEMs I know of that write their own code.
      • Google has everything to gain and little to lose by helping OEMs use Android instead of their in-house software which is exactly why OEMs need to look in minute detail at this gift before letting it into their holy of holies.
      2001 V40 1.9T - OSD (Summer: Galactica 16"/Winter: Spectra 15")
      2005 Boxster - EuroDelivery (Street: Boxster S 18"/Track: Cayman S 18")
      2010 XC90 3.2 R-Design AWD - OSD (Winter: Vulcanis 19"/Summer & Off-Road: Panacea 18")
      New XC90 T8 R-Design AWD - OSD (Summer 2017 Delivery Confirmed)

    4. #38
      No offence to anyone but if we are so concerned about privacy and all we should stay away from connected cars and for that matter even smart phones. And if the future belongs to connected cars then I would like the giants like google and apple to play a bigger role and help OEMs design the software for better integration of their already available superior services like maps and virtual assistants. I find it awkward that a $500 smartphone can do a better job at navigation/ local search/ voice assistance/ availabilty of applications than the OEM software of a $60-70 K car.

      Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
      XC90 MY2017, Magic Blue Inscription with Climate, Convenience, Vision and HUD

    5. #39
      Member reeg2's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2015
      Location
      Fort Worth, TX
      Posts
      1,396
      Quote Originally Posted by Jaysam82 View Post
      No offence to anyone but if we are so concerned about privacy and all we should stay away from connected cars and for that matter even smart phones. And if the future belongs to connected cars then I would like the giants like google and apple to play a bigger role and help OEMs design the software for better integration of their already available superior services like maps and virtual assistants.
      I disagree, wholeheartedly. You seem to be saying that the price of connectedness is loss of privacy and that's silly.
      Google and Apple are vastly different in how your data is processed, stored and used.
      2016 XC90 Inscription Osmium Grey on Charcoal
      B/W CarPlay Convenience Climate Vision 21"

    6. #40
      Member phillipu's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2016
      Location
      United States
      Posts
      1,407
      Quote Originally Posted by reeg2 View Post
      I disagree, wholeheartedly. You seem to be saying that the price of connectedness is loss of privacy and that's silly.
      Google and Apple are vastly different in how your data is processed, stored and used.
      This is very true. Apple is very privacy conscious whereas Google relishes in their ability to suck up your personal data and use it. Sometimes this works in your benefit and makes it easier to provide the services you want, but sometimes it's to profile you for their own ends. The question is how far are you willing to let someone to go to provide you with a particular service?

      One example of this trade off that hit the news recently is how Slice was outed for reading your email to provide you with better spam unsubscription tools while using what they gathered about you to profile you and sell that back to services like Uber who used it to see how much their customers used competing services. Another arm of their business gathers info about your purchases from online stores to build reports about what you spend money on and when a shipment is expected but then sells that same intelligence to competing retailers. Were these features worth it for the price of privacy?

      Personally, this is an area where I think regulation is needed. Probably not likely to happen with our current administration but regardless I would like to see companies prevented from using any data about you whether it is personally identifiable or aggregated for any purpose other than providing the services you've requested unless there is a conspicuous opt-in with annual re-ups to the opt-in. I will happily pay for the email services, mapping tools, etc. that I use if it means I can maintain my privacy. This is why I do not use Google services including their search engine.

    7. #41
      Quote Originally Posted by phillipu View Post
      This is very true. Apple is very privacy conscious whereas Google relishes in their ability to suck up your personal data and use it. Sometimes this works in your benefit and makes it easier to provide the services you want, but sometimes it's to profile you for their own ends. The question is how far are you willing to let someone to go to provide you with a particular service?

      One example of this trade off that hit the news recently is how Slice was outed for reading your email to provide you with better spam unsubscription tools while using what they gathered about you to profile you and sell that back to services like Uber who used it to see how much their customers used competing services. Another arm of their business gathers info about your purchases from online stores to build reports about what you spend money on and when a shipment is expected but then sells that same intelligence to competing retailers. Were these features worth it for the price of privacy?

      Personally, this is an area where I think regulation is needed. Probably not likely to happen with our current administration but regardless I would like to see companies prevented from using any data about you whether it is personally identifiable or aggregated for any purpose other than providing the services you've requested unless there is a conspicuous opt-in with annual re-ups to the opt-in. I will happily pay for the email services, mapping tools, etc. that I use if it means I can maintain my privacy. This is why I do not use Google services including their search engine.


      As the old adage goes... "there is no free lunch" and "you get what you pay for". For Google, its customers are the paying ones... as in businesses or individuals that contract with them to get usage data of their products: the users of their "free" software and services. Certainly there is a trade-off, and the threshold or balance between giving up too much privacy and/or not getting enough for that privacy in return is up to each user of their software and services. Plus as we've seen with Android phones, they're the least secure devices available - sieves of information users store on them. Smartphone users that care about security and privacy either opt for non-standard hardened Android devices, iPhone, or other secure options.

      In this case Volvo and Audi are trading on their car buyers for a perceived benefit to offer them. I'm sure their calculation is an improvement in the UI experience, "improved" software, and choice, but what's the EULA? The upside is in Europe and hopefully by extension EU OEMs (sadly that's what car manufacturers will turn into in Google's eyes, as computer makers are known these days too) are more vigilant and conscientious about not only safeguarding their data and their customer's. Europe offers better privacy protections and control to its denizens than the US.
      Last edited by VolvoUhu; 05-16-2017 at 11:59 PM.
      2001 V40 1.9T - OSD (Summer: Galactica 16"/Winter: Spectra 15")
      2005 Boxster - EuroDelivery (Street: Boxster S 18"/Track: Cayman S 18")
      2010 XC90 3.2 R-Design AWD - OSD (Winter: Vulcanis 19"/Summer & Off-Road: Panacea 18")
      New XC90 T8 R-Design AWD - OSD (Summer 2017 Delivery Confirmed)

    8. #42
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Apr 2017
      Location
      Northeast
      Posts
      30
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=surfGc2QNY4

      Looks like Audi will be releasing the new Android-based MMI soon
      Tesla Model S P85D

      Upcoming: 2018 XC90 T6 Inscription

    9. #43
      XC90 MY2017, Magic Blue Inscription with Climate, Convenience, Vision and HUD

    10. #44
      Member phillipu's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2016
      Location
      United States
      Posts
      1,407
      Quote Originally Posted by Jaysam82 View Post
      Thanks for posting. Looks farther along than I expected. Looks like they're just swapping out the underlying OS without changing the overall Sensus UI significantly.

      The Google Assistant feature looks like it should be very useful once they've got the bugs worked out.

    11. #45
      Junior Member jonbreweratx's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2016
      Location
      Austin, TX
      Posts
      56
      Quote Originally Posted by Jaysam82 View Post
      No offence to anyone but if we are so concerned about privacy and all we should stay away from connected cars and for that matter even smart phones. And if the future belongs to connected cars then I would like the giants like google and apple to play a bigger role and help OEMs design the software for better integration of their already available superior services like maps and virtual assistants. I find it awkward that a $500 smartphone can do a better job at navigation/ local search/ voice assistance/ availabilty of applications than the OEM software of a $60-70 K car.

      Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
      This is very true. For example, if you bought a GM vehicle that has the little OnStar mirror, GM is listening through the mic whether you signed up for OnStar service or not.
      2017 XC90 T8 Inscription
      Twilight Bronze w/ Amber Napa Leather

    12. #46
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Sep 2016
      Location
      San Diego, CA
      Posts
      219
      Quote Originally Posted by phillipu View Post
      Thanks for posting. Looks farther along than I expected. Looks like they're just swapping out the underlying OS without changing the overall Sensus UI significantly.

      The Google Assistant feature looks like it should be very useful once they've got the bugs worked out.
      I'm hoping it shows up in the 2019 model, my planned OSD order :-)

    13. #47
      Member phillipu's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2016
      Location
      United States
      Posts
      1,407
      Quote Originally Posted by stick_shift View Post
      I'm hoping it shows up in the 2019 model, my planned OSD order :-)
      We shall see. I wonder what, if any, differences there are to the hardware that is used to run this new OS. My intuition tells me that it's probably a different and more powerful stack of chips altogether but it would be amazing if it was something that could be brought backwards in compatibility.

    14. #48
      Quote Originally Posted by phillipu View Post
      We shall see. I wonder what, if any, differences there are to the hardware that is used to run this new OS. My intuition tells me that it's probably a different and more powerful stack of chips altogether but it would be amazing if it was something that could be brought backwards in compatibility.
      I hope all existing SPA models can have the new software installed once ready. I believe that the existing hardware should be able to handle it. I understand that the current sensus is based on android already (I might be wrong) - likely an older version of android though. What google is probably doing is upgrading the software, enabling google play services framework and integrating its services (maps/assistant) for better overall experience.

      Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
      XC90 MY2017, Magic Blue Inscription with Climate, Convenience, Vision and HUD

    15. #49
      Member phillipu's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2016
      Location
      United States
      Posts
      1,407
      Quote Originally Posted by Jaysam82 View Post
      I hope all existing SPA models can have the new software installed once ready. I believe that the existing hardware should be able to handle it. I understand that the current sensus is based on android already (I might be wrong) - likely an older version of android though. What google is probably doing is upgrading the software, enabling google play services framework and integrating its services (maps/assistant) for better overall experience.

      Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
      While the current version feels very Android-like to me because of the top status bar, pull-down notification drawer and movable widget-like function buttons, I have no confirmation at all on what it's actually running.

    16. #50
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Mar 2017
      Location
      Europe
      Posts
      52
      Quote Originally Posted by phillipu View Post
      While the current version feels very Android-like to me because of the top status bar, pull-down notification drawer and movable widget-like function buttons, I have no confirmation at all on what it's actually running.
      They say it is running on QNX operating system.
      QNX is an old an proven real-time operating system which I would say is a perfect match for such an application as Sensus.

      Running car systems on Android sound dangerous to me, Android uses Java technology which is interpreted (not compiled) language and needs huge ammount of memory and CPU power to deliver performance. It is OK fo smartphones, but I would be very carefull to rely on that in real-time car aplications.

      But maybe they are just considering Android for the Sensus user interface/applications, that would be fine.

      Another concearn, Android is a common target for hacking/mallware, I am not sure if this is what we want to have in our cars.

    17. #51
      Member phillipu's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2016
      Location
      United States
      Posts
      1,407
      Quote Originally Posted by mgr View Post
      They say it is running on QNX operating system.
      QNX is an old an proven real-time operating system which I would say is a perfect match for such an application as Sensus.

      Running car systems on Android sound dangerous to me, Android uses Java technology which is interpreted (not compiled) language and needs huge ammount of memory and CPU power to deliver performance. It is OK fo smartphones, but I would be very carefull to rely on that in real-time car aplications.

      But maybe they are just considering Android for the Sensus user interface/applications, that would be fine.

      Another concearn, Android is a common target for hacking/mallware, I am not sure if this is what we want to have in our cars.
      Yeah, QNX is almost standard in automotive applications. Really makes you wonder what Blackberry is doing just sitting back and letting the big boys start to eat their lunch. But then again, that's what they did with their smartphones. I don't know that they've done anything significant at all with QNX since they bought it.

      As for stability and such, Sensus seems decoupled from critical systems. The CANBUS is hopefully largely unaffected during a reboot based on what I can see in the driver display with the tach and speed still being reported. The one thing that concerns me the most is the drive mode which does actually seem to be controlled by Sensus and will reset if it reboots mid-drive. This needs to change. Whatever module reads this info from the Sensus interface needs to report it back to Sensus or it needs to be saved in non-volatile storage so that when it reboots, it can pick up where it left off. But I don't know that Android vs. QNX would make it any worse than it already is. I truly think it could be better and that's coming from someone who is not an Android fan.

    18. #52
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Jan 2017
      Location
      England
      Posts
      191
      Quote Originally Posted by mgr View Post
      Another concearn, Android is a common target for hacking/mallware, I am not sure if this is what we want to have in our cars.
      Everybody is, Android is just caught out on slow updates via OEMs. As long as they can provide quick updates and verify apps on the store we should be safe.

    19. #53
      Member phillipu's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2016
      Location
      United States
      Posts
      1,407
      Quote Originally Posted by Another Volvo View Post
      Everybody is, Android is just caught out on slow updates via OEMs. As long as they can provide quick updates and verify apps on the store we should be safe.
      Additionally, I'm fairly certain they're not going to be opening the full Play store up on our cars. More like a limited version that is even more walled off from the world. As I understand it, the majority of security issues with Android are trojans that make it past Google's approval process (which is something Google announced that they're addressing even more) which means that if there's some limited list of apps that will work that possibly both Volvo and Google have to approve then it is unlikely that we're going to be hacked by that vector. Attacks against the WiFi hotspot, VOC modem, or a surreptitiously placed OBD connection that gives access to the CANBUS are bigger threats.

    20. #54
      Quote Originally Posted by Jaysam82 View Post
      I wish the UI was as smooth and snappy as that demo. Those initial Sensus previews back in 2015-2016 were what drew me towards Volvo. It's fortunate the way the system is set up we get software upgrades like these, but they should really work to getting the performance to be as good as what's marketed.

      The current Sensus isn't terrible by any means, but it's noticeably lacking when compared to navigating modern touchscreen devices.

    21. #55
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Feb 2017
      Location
      NC
      Posts
      61
      Quote Originally Posted by mgr View Post
      They say it is running on QNX operating system.
      QNX is an old an proven real-time operating system which I would say is a perfect match for such an application as Sensus.

      Running car systems on Android sound dangerous to me, Android uses Java technology which is interpreted (not compiled) language and needs huge ammount of memory and CPU power to deliver performance. It is OK fo smartphones, but I would be very carefull to rely on that in real-time car aplications.

      But maybe they are just considering Android for the Sensus user interface/applications, that would be fine.

      Another concearn, Android is a common target for hacking/mallware, I am not sure if this is what we want to have in our cars.
      This is not accurate. You run javac to compile Java into Java bytecode before you run the program with java.
      Current: 2017 XC90 T6 Momentum (Momentum Plus, Vision, Convenience)
      Previous: 2015.5 XC60 Drive-E T5 Platinum

    22. #56
      Junior Member Olstyle's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2015
      Location
      Europe (Germany)
      Posts
      113
      Also the plan is to run the MMI with Android, not "the car". The later will still be bare metal C for most parts.
      C70 I 2.0 -> C70 II T5 -> the Moon?

    23. #57
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Jan 2017
      Location
      England
      Posts
      191
      Quote Originally Posted by phillipu View Post
      Additionally, I'm fairly certain they're not going to be opening the full Play store up on our cars. More like a limited version that is even more walled off from the world. As I understand it, the majority of security issues with Android are trojans that make it past Google's approval process (which is something Google announced that they're addressing even more) which means that if there's some limited list of apps that will work that possibly both Volvo and Google have to approve then it is unlikely that we're going to be hacked by that vector. Attacks against the WiFi hotspot, VOC modem, or a surreptitiously placed OBD connection that gives access to the CANBUS are bigger threats.
      For sure- I'm sure games won't make the list anytime soon. It might just be a custom store like Galaxy Apps, which means there may be a testing process unlike now on Google Play.

      Any malware aimed at Android outside of the app store would be covered by updates. Let's just hope it's quick and not half a year like other Android devices do (mainly ones that are changed by manufacturers)

    24. Remove Advertisements

      Advertisements
       

    Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2