Exhaust manifold gasked (squealing issue) job - few questions
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    1. #1
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      Exhaust manifold gasked (squealing issue) job - few questions

      Hi all

      talking about that squealing issue on other post made me actually talk to my mechanics and book a day to have this sorted. I was asked to organise those parts below and drop the car to them in apx 2 weeks.
      - Exhaust manifold gasket
      - exhaust manifold studs
      - gasket between turbo and manifold *(i think they meant exhaust, no??)

      Can someone please confirm that parts I found on Vida are corresponding with the description?


      number 2 - Gasket 8699467 (qty 1)
      number 12 - Stud 982667 (qty 12)


      number 5 - Gasket 30677190

      If anyone who did this job already can provide any tips - will highly appreciate it. Wouldnt mind veryfying parts number aswell, if anyone have them. Any more parts/screws/gaskets worth replacing? Its a major job and a lot of disassembly so while they do it Im happy to do as much "in this area" if possible.
      Also, anything to do with a turbo while disassembled? (clean/check/regulate?)

      Much appreciate any help. Want to prepare myself as much as possible.
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    3. #2
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      Done the (exhaust manifold gasket) job, it's doable yourself as long as the studs don't break. But here are some extra things you will most likely need - new metal (aluminum?) lower oil return line gasket, new (3/16"?) coolant hoses and clamps. And if it were me, I'd only get 3-5 extra studs (just in case they break). But really, just hose the studs down with PB Blaster for a day or two and I'd be shocked if any broke. Btw, if you have AWD, you will not be able to slide the manifold off the studs to do a quick gasket change out unless you take the DP off first. The exhaust shield for the transfer case blocks the manifold/DP assembly from clearing. So either you have to take the DP off or you double nut all the studs and remove them.

      It seems like the DP is more straight forward. 3 bolts with a small gasket that gets sandwiched between manifold and DP. I haven't done it yet myself, but it's on my to-do list. From what the R guys say about the volvo turbo DP's, I'll probably replace the bolts with grade 8 when I do the job.
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    4. #3
      Member pczeilon's Avatar
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      Some help HERE also.
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    6. #4
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      Ah, nice one, thanks for the link pczelion, a bit clearer now to visualise what will be happening.

      mercdude - not sure if I understood all you wrote. I take it my mechs are prepared for unbolting the DP as they asked me for a turbo->exhaust gasket (am I right saying that no5 on second pic is the gasket between turbo and DP?), but "lower oil return line gasket" - what is that and where it is? My mechanical knowledge and skills are not even remotely close to undertake job like this so I definetely wont be doing it myself, just want to make sure I got all the parts for them when doing.
      When I am ordering the studs, should I also get new nuts with them or not?
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    7. #5
      If you're doing it alone, I suggest putting a bit of wood over the top with rope and tie it to the manifold so it wont drop

    8. #6
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      ^Actually that's a good tip too. Mine flopped all over and I might have caused some undo stress to the flex pipe.

      Okay dude: if you don't already know, the turbo is built into the exhaust manifold. The turbo has oil and coolant lines feeding it from the top and bottom, which means, when you go to remove the manifold you must undo the 2 coolant lines and at least the lower (return) oil lines for the turbo. Ideally you would replace that lower oil line gasket, coolant hoses, and hose clamps. You don't need to replace the DP/manifold gasket if you remove all the exhaust studs. You would only separate the downpipe from the exhaust manifold if you wanted to keep the exhaust manifold studs in place.
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    9. #7
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      Not to hijack -- I just want to update my parallel progress with the same issue on an AWD model. So I've gathered that with an AWD this becomes more complicated with clearance issues -- I went out and bought a mirror so I could see where the bolts were located. I'm going to attempt tightening mine first, since it seems to be pretty early on in the failure process. I noticed that the heat shield appears to have 4 (13mm?) bolts, the tow of which are closest to the passenger side are sprung. Strange.

      I'll snap photos and/or video when I do it (tomorrow morning is the plan).

    10. #8
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      No difference in clearance at the exhaust manifold, only difference is clearance at the downpipe where it gets close to the transfer case. You can try to use a mirror but the easiest thing to do is work blind and feel with your fingers for the nuts/studs. Plenty of room to hook your hands behind the cylinder head and wrench. Just be methodical and get a combo of a open-end/box-end wrench, a deep socket, shallow socket and you'll be fine.
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    11. #9
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      I got the mirror to locate the fasteners, since this is a totally new engine to me.

      I went out to casually remove the heat shield when I had a break in my work. I then casually dropped my 10mm deep well into the abyss of the engine bay. Recovered it by dropping the skid plate. I guess the Volvo has had its first right of passage...

      The one bolt that went through the shield into the lower manifold was tight enough that it didn't come out with my 1/4 inch ratchet...dang. This is a rust free CA car, but exhaust is always an "all bets are off" situation. I guess penetrating oil is in order. Damn, 3 days into ownership the penetrate is coming out. That's a new record for me!

    12. #10
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      Oh man, douse everything with PB Blaster for at least a day. Keep hitting it every few hours (generously). Trust me, worth the wait.
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    13. #11
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      Yep, I'm going to. And then I'll probably attempt to crack the bolts while it is hot from driving.

    14. #12
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      Since you'll be laying across the engine and touching the exhaust manifold, I wouldn't recommend that.
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    15. #13
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      Got the heat shield removed with a little patience, and found the two manifold nuts nearest the passenger side were completely loose! I could tighten them by hand!

      The next two were loose as well. I got them all tightened and the chug chug chug and squeal is gone! Here's to hoping it stays that way for a while.

    16. #14
      Put some thread lock on them! Not sure how well it will take the heat though ...

      I need to tighten mine, and fix my freespinning bolt due to idiot previous owner. Again.

    17. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by RenaissanceMan View Post
      Got the heat shield removed with a little patience, and found the two manifold nuts nearest the passenger side were completely loose! I could tighten them by hand!

      The next two were loose as well. I got them all tightened and the chug chug chug and squeal is gone! Here's to hoping it stays that way for a while.
      Dont want to worry you, but this is only temp-fix. May last for some time (mine did for apx 5000 kms) but it started again and got worse. Hope yours lasts longer.
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    18. #16
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      Same here. Mine actually broke those 2 studs on the far passenger side. I was able to take the large washer out and put 2 nuts back on and tighten it up. Fixed! For a few months. Now it's loud again at startup and sometimes comes back after driven for a while. Pretty embarrassing when I start it up in the parking lot at work. I'll have to go in and do the full job. I plan to replace all the studs. I'll probably have to tap the welder on the end of some of the studs to get them out.

      Has anybody needed to resurface the manifold to get it flat again? Usually it's only going to break studs because the manifold is actually warping. If mine isn't flat I'll be sending it out to be machined, I guess. Only want to do this job once.

      Really glad there is some discussion on this, especially pertaining to the AWD models and specific clearance issues. Very helpful. So far in my experience with this car, the Turbo and/or AWD definitely makes everything more failure prone, harder to repair, or harder to obtain parts for. But still completely worth it.
      Last edited by walky_talky20; 05-22-2017 at 08:28 AM.
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    19. #17
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      The oem exhaust manifold is, actually, pretty well designed and substantial. It has expansion joints between the cylinders so I have to imagine that warping is unlikely. I think the most likely situation is that the nuts/studs back off due to vibration and then the gasket deteriorates. For some reason the passenger side seems most affected - I speculate because it gets the most vibration from the turbo. Anyways. Those exhaust manifold gaskets are only good for one application. Once they get crushed by the first torquing, they don't seal as well.

      In my case, the cylinder head had been rebuilt by the PO and a new updated gasket was installed. Assuming the mechanic correctly torqued the exhaust nuts/studs, within 15k miles the passenger side exhaust manifold nuts/studs were very loose and causing a leak. I tried to tighten (it helped), but the real solution was a new updated gasket. I did that job less than 7k miles ago and the other day I checked and the passenger side nuts/studs took about an extra 1/10 of a turn, all the others were still very tight.

      With that rate of loosening, I think every 2-3 oil changes I will check the torque.
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    20. #18
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      Sounds like we need some type of lock washers on this thing...

    21. #19
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      Small star washers could work...
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    22. #20
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      I'm missing two studs on the passenger side but I couldn't tell from the pictures I took whether they are completely gone or if they broke somewhere close to the head (which is what I assumed until I read this thread.) I haven't had a chance to take the heat shield off and check the depth of the holes, but it sounds like it's probably the studs backed out so all I have to do is get new studs and nuts and put them back in? At this point I need to tighten the remaining two nuts closest to the passenger side about once every two months to stop the squealing from the exhaust but I'm afraid to tighten them down too much for fear of breaking one and being left with only one working stud/nut combination on the passenger side.
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    23. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by mercdude View Post

      In my case, the cylinder head had been rebuilt by the PO and a new updated gasket was installed. Assuming the mechanic correctly torqued the exhaust nuts/studs, within 15k miles the passenger side exhaust manifold nuts/studs were very loose and causing a leak.....
      Do you remember what is the recommended tightening torque for those nuts?
      And what is that "updated gasket" you are referring to? I have ordered the OEM gasket from Volvo (8699467) is that the updated one or there is aftermarket, better equivalent I should have gone for?

      Had a chat with my mech yesterday and confirmed the job for the day in week 23. I ended up ordering only manifold and DP gasket, as per his request. Full set of OEM studs+washers+nuts is 150Eur so I was told not to bother - if needed, he will get something locally but its no point to special-order it from Sweden and pay that much "just in case". Fingers crossed, Im actually a bit nervous about this repair but recently the farting become so unbearable that I just hate to accelerate this car anymore, and whats the point in having T5 if you cant do a nice 5-pot vroom....
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    24. #22
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      Not sure on the torque values - I just did them until they were pretty tight, but I didn't crank on them. I believe they are only 10mm bolts (lucky no. 13 cap size though).
      I think volvo updated that gasket to a multi-layered steel gasket instead of the typical aluminum-ized cork exhaust gasket they had in the earlier models. It's the same as aftermarket VICTOR REINZ and the t5 gasket is also the same as the 2.4i.
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    25. #23
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      Ok thanks, I take it that the one I ordered from V will be updated one as its the only pn indicated by Vida.
      As for torque, found those in FAQ section, refers to R-models but could those be useful for T5 aswell?

      Manifold
      (cylinder head side)
      25 Nm

      Stud
      (at exhaust port, manifold, turbocharger (TC))
      20Nm

      and others...
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    26. #24
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      I'm not convinced it's the nuts just backing off. I think it's more likely the manifold is warping and actually stretching the studs. You can tighten it back up, but eventually they will break. I could be wrong, but I feel that's what happened to mine. If the nuts just come loose, I wouldn't have 2 broken studs.
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    27. #25
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      Which studs broke on your manifold? Only the passenger side 2 studs seem to loosen magically.
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    28. #26
      Be very carful torquing the exhaust studs. About 8000mi after head replacement mine developed a leak. Turns out 3 of the studs had ripped the aluminum threads out of the head and were just spinning instead of tightening. I think this had to do with over-torquing the studs during the install. Those three were too tight to get the torque wrench in, so I guestimated....

      Helicoiling in place was a nightmare, we had to modify a drill bit (cut in half, drillDr new tip, grind hex into shank, flatten nose) and weld a bolt head to the special heli-coil tap and still it was still a click-at-a-time sort of thing. Took about 6 hours.
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    29. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by mercdude View Post
      Which studs broke on your manifold? Only the passenger side 2 studs seem to loosen magically.
      The last 2 studs on the passenger side, I believe. Either those, or the 2 inboard of that. But definitely passenger side. I went to tighten them, merely touched them with a socket and they both broke off.
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    30. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by theshadow27 View Post
      Be very carful torquing the exhaust studs. About 8000mi after head replacement mine developed a leak. Turns out 3 of the studs had ripped the aluminum threads out of the head and were just spinning instead of tightening. I think this had to do with over-torquing the studs during the install. Those three were too tight to get the torque wrench in, so I guestimated....

      Helicoiling in place was a nightmare, we had to modify a drill bit (cut in half, drillDr new tip, grind hex into shank, flatten nose) and weld a bolt head to the special heli-coil tap and still it was still a click-at-a-time sort of thing. Took about 6 hours.
      So you guys are saying only 20lbs of torque for the studs? That seems low. I'd guess more like 35. Can someone double-check on VIDA?
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    31. #29
      Junior Member kampman's Avatar
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      That sounds about right, the tightening torque of a class 8.8 M8X1.25 fastener should be 20 ft/lbs (which is about 25nm).

      I just replaced all of the exhaust studs in my V70R with new ones that had a 4mm hex cut in one end, obviously they're not expecting you to use a ton of torque to install them.
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    32. #30
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      Not the studs, no. The studs just get installed snug. The manifold on the other hand...
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    33. #31
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      This is correct. The studs are just wound in snug. The NEW 985868 nuts you should be using are 25nm / 18.5ftlbs. If you catch the issue early you can get away with just tightening thing things down but if it has gone on for too long your gasket will be burned through as MNIWTs. To do the whole thing correctly you would would remove the manifold/turbo & have it machined flat as this warping is the root cause of the issue. In the real world a simple re-tighten with fresh gasket will last a good long time.

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    34. #32
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      Pzc - I defer to you, but isn't that the old style gasket? The new gasket is multi-layered steel. That looks like the typical aluminized cork (or whatever material it is). If it was multi layered steel, seems very unlikely it would come apart like that.

      Huh. I assumed the torque value was much higher than 20lbs. Which means, I have some more homework to do. I will back off the torque on all my exhaust nuts by 1/10 turn - no way in hell I want a stud to break off. I'd rather change out the exhaust gasket 3x's over than do that. Though, torquing seems almost impossible in place. What kind of stubby 1/4 in lbs torque wrench could actually be used?
      Last edited by mercdude; 05-23-2017 at 03:29 PM.
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    35. #33
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      A Volvo specialist shop I've talked to said that the angle gear has to be removed for this repair. Is that true?
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    36. #34
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      No. You just have to either take the DP off; or, (the easier method) take all the studs out by double-nutting. Tedious work though, but not hard. Shops are just going by an estimate of the exhaust manifold/turbo replace and removal. Which is not necessary and is much more work.

      But yes, there is an interference between the exhaust system and the exhaust shield of the transfer case. With the studs and DP in place, you can't back the manifold off the studs. Hence, double-nut them all out. Hey, gives you a chance to inspection everything. Right?
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    37. #35
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      Correct. The new gasket is of the type you describe. Over tightening the nuts will only cause the studs to break earlier. The goal of that big thick washer is to try & keep things stable under all the expansion & contraction. I had to do a ton of these repairs on Audi 5 cylinders back in the day. It's just too long of a span for the cast iron manifold to hold it's shape. Audi finally split the manifold into 2 pieces & connected them with a stainless bellows. Problem solved for good.
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