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    1. #1

      Fuel Induction Cleaning ?

      I had my 45,000 mile service today...after 2 hours, I got my customary call about what recommendations the techies had:

      1) For $130, I should get my tires rebalanced and the alignment adjusted. My car had absolutely no misalignment, so I called bull on this one and moved on.

      2) For $189, they recommended getting a fuel induction cleaning because of carbon build up they suspected from noticing my tach needle was vibrating a bit during the test drive.

      I am not proficient enough with the workings of an engine to call BS, but as the service rep couldn't answer my simple questions that well and no techie was available so I called bull on that too.

      Would somebody be so kind and explain the need and benefit of getting that cleaning?

      Many thanks in advance!


    2. #2
      Member volvoNB's Avatar
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      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (raje)

      I'm no expert but it sounds like PCV cleaning.
      2005 S40 T5 BSR Stage 3

    3. #3
      Member MrTippy's Avatar
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      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (raje)

      IIRC, these cars don't have PCV valves, but oil traps and your's should be ok after 45k miles.

      The line about the vibrating needle is just that a line. In addition to cleaning your induction system (maybe and or mostly), it will clean out your wallet.

      If you want to try something for your intake system, try Chevron http://www.chevron.com/product...shtml it is essentially the additive package that all the gasoline companies are using in their fuels--and pay royalties to Chevron for the privilege of doing so. Throwing a bottle of concentrate in the gas tank will clear residual valve deposits (if you have any) and help with light to moderate carbon build up in the cylinders. http://www.chevron.com/product...trol/

      Most big name gasoline companies have good additive packages in their fuels already and, overall, deposits are not the problem they were 10-20 years ago. Techron is about $6 bottle at your typical auto parts supplier or costco. It is essentially what the dealer would be doing.

      A severe carbon problem in your cylinders could result in loud knocking that is more evident during cold start up. If you have a small buildup probem the resultant knocking would not likely be noticed as your ecu would be controlling it by retarding your ignition. Your performance would eventually drop along with your gas mileage. The engine will not necessarily run rougher.

      If you notice any undue engine vibration (say at idle) check your motor mounts.

      '04 V70 NA -- gone

    4. #4

      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (MrTippy)

      Thanks!

      I appreciate the detail and insight, MrTippy


    5. #5
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      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (raje)

      The dealer is absolutely correct the throttle body on fuel injected cars gets carboned up and must be cleaned every year or so. This because unlike a carberated car there is no liquid fuel running across it to keep it clean. No amount of fuel cleaner can fix this.

      If don't do this the car will idle roughly and the off idle response may start to bog. It makes no difference at all for partial and full throttle performance but it feels smoother.

      The carbon builds up a layer and some time a ridge where the throttle plate touches the bore. You just need to clean this off.

      It is a simple job to do yourself. Just pick up a can of "throttle body cleaner" spray at your local automotive store. Disconnect the hose going to the throttle body and soak the throttle plate with the spray. (The good stuff is in a spray can designed to work upside down so you can spray inside on the plate.)

      Let it sit for an hour, put the hose back then start your engine for a few minutes. Then repeat the soaking until you have gone through the can. Check your progress with a mirror and a light.

      If you are a clean fanatic like me you can unbolt the throttle body and clean it better on the bench with the spray and an old tooth brush. Don't attempt unless you are mechanically inclined. (I hope for $189 that is what the dealer does.)

      The solvent will also clean some carbon off the inside of the intake chamber and maybe cylinder heads but it is the layer that sticks to the throttle plate that is critical.

      PS: If You really have no proficiency with an engine (ie Don't know what a throttle body is). (We all have different skills.) Shop around, another mechanic may give you a better deal since this I cant see this involving more then an hour of labour.


    6. #6
      Member Big Will's Avatar
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      This same service is $99 at my Volvo Dealer.
      98 V70 AWD M58 Manual: Wothrline tune, 15G turbo/angled flange, White injectors, R Manifold, TME Downpipe, TME Exhaust, EST Intake, IPD Swaybars + endlinks, Volvo Strut Brace, Öhlins Roadholding Suspension + Springs, 302mm ATE front rotors, vented R rears , SS Brake lines, E-spec C70 Jewels w/ 55w HIDs.

    7. #7

      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (VictorVDC)

      I got hit with the "Recommended Fuel Induction" Cleaning service yesterday. I didn't bite on it since I was already doing some other scheduled maintenance.

      How can I go about doing this myself. I usually do the basic maintenance myself but would like to know where where I can find the throttle body to try this myself.

      Where can I get a Hayes type manual for the S40? I've seen some CD's on ebay but don't know how reliable they are.


    8. #8

      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (VictorVDC)

      Which one of these is the throttle body?
      A)

      B)

      My guess is A, but hey what do i know.


    9. #9
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      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (marioone)

      The shiny thing in the middle of A.

      Most throttle bodies I have cleaned are side draft and easy to spray cleaner into and wipe off. Unfortunately this car is up-draft so it is going to be tricky to spray up into it

      I think you are going to need a mirror, some Q-tips, a tooth brush and a LOT of patience.


    10. #10

      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (VictorVDC)

      Here's the before and after of the throttle body cleaning.

      Before

      After

      The throttle body was a bitch to remove and put back but the final result is noticeable. If anyone wants to know how to do it and what tools to use let me know.

      Next up Rear Brake Pads.

      Thanks VictorVDC for the insight.


    11. #11
      Junior Member FinnSpeed's Avatar
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      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (marioone)

      The result looks pretty good to me, like new.

      Sure we want to know how you did it!

      Volvo V50 T5 M6 FWD Passion Red. Premium Audio, Dension Gateway, Climate pack, Nokian Z summers, Nokian R winters, BSR Stage 1, Digital boost gauge.

    12. #12

      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (FinnSpeed)

      i would definitely consider going to regular alignment..

      your tires may be more or less aligned properly, but even some small changes can have an effect. i had not gone for alignment myself for a while, but a couple of months back i went and did it. the workshop found my toe settings and camber settings were a little off. nothing too much to cause uneven wear etc, but anyway, after resetting back to the optimal settings, i did notice a difference in the way the car handled.


    13. #13

      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (marioone)

      So besides unbolting it, do you just use a toothbrush or such and clean that plate off? And that pretty much does the trick?

    14. #14
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      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (AutoFahren)

      You also need a can of throttle body cleaner which dissolves and rinses away the carbon.

      Dont use just Carburetor cleaner it used to be a lot stronger and could mess up the idle solenoid. I suspect that even if you can still buy it they probably have weakened it to prevent lawsuits.


    15. #15
      Member volvoNB's Avatar
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      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (raje)

      I didn't want to start a new thread and wanted to keep all the info in the same place. Have to give credit to marioone for doing the initial work.

      I took the day off and decided to clean the throttle body. Total time was about 1 hour with lots of patience. Boy did my back hurt. There are 4 screws which are long and feels tight right till the end. So you can't really loosen then unscrew by hand.

      Tools used:
      * flat head screw driver
      * torx t-27 with 1/4" socket
      * 1/4" ratchet
      * Throttle body cleaner

      Steps are pretty much straight forward:
      1) Use the flat head screw driver to loosen and pop off the hose connected to the throttle body.
      2) Unscrew the 4 screws that hold the throttle body in place.
      NOTE: You will need to move the hose around in step 1 to get access to each screw. I also removed the dipstick to remove on of the screw.
      3) Unplug the wires attached to the throttle body
      4) Clean throttle body with throttle body cleaner
      5) Reverse steps to install.

      Because the way throttle body is positioned, you can only unscrew a little at a time. Have patience and don't shred the torx screws.... like I did. The throttle body cleaner makes those brown thing just melt off. Just a few sprays and that thing looks shiny.

      I didn't think a little discoloration would much of a difference, but I really think my car idles much smoother now. Has to be placebo effect.

      Some pictures for reference:

      The top left corner is where the throttle body came out of:




      Modified by volvoNB at 10:17 PM 2-25-2008

      2005 S40 T5 BSR Stage 3

    16. #16
      Anywhere I can find a full maintenance guide on our cars? I certainly would like to do most of this that I can to save money as well as keeping the car running in tip top shape for as long as possible. For instance, this isn't something I would ever think about until I took my car to the dealership and they said 130 bucks and I would just say uh sure? What other regular yearly maintenance should I do?

      Some of these may be debatable but offhand:
      1) Every 7500 miles oil change, rotate and balance tires.
      2) Every year clean the throttle body.
      3) Test out the backseat
      4) Regularly scheduled intervals
      5) (add your own here)

      edit: Number 3 was apparently added in by my girlfriend when I stepped out of the room. Though, decidedly, I like it.


      Modified by S40DaB at 10:52 PM 2-25-2008


    17. #17
      nice stuff! this is definitely on my list of "things to clean" (including the entire car itself) once the weather gets nicer

    18. #18

      Re: (inFiniTE LooP)

      notice any difference after the cleaning?

    19. #19

      Re: (S40DaB)

      Quote, originally posted by S40DaB »
      Anywhere I can find a full maintenance guide on our cars? I certainly would like to do most of this that I can to save money as well as keeping the car running in tip top shape for as long as possible. For instance, this isn't something I would ever think about until I took my car to the dealership and they said 130 bucks and I would just say uh sure? What other regular yearly maintenance should I do?

      Some of these may be debatable but offhand:
      1) Every 7500 miles oil change, rotate and balance tires.
      2) Every year clean the throttle body.
      3) Test out the backseat
      4) Regularly scheduled intervals
      5) (add your own here)

      edit: Number 3 was apparently added in by my girlfriend when I stepped out of the room. Though, decidedly, I like it.


      Modified by S40DaB at 10:52 PM 2-25-2008

      i change coolant and brake fluid once a year. ATF fluid i did a full flush at 45k KM and every 15k i do a drain and refill.


    20. #20

      Re: (Mistral)

      Excellent write up! Looks great. Some one should link this in the sticky we have at the top of the forum.

      Btw congrats on the work all clean it looker nice, and im sure will keep it running in top shape.


    21. #21
      Member volvoNB's Avatar
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      Re: (Mistral)

      Mistral,

      What did you do to flush the coolant. It's one of the things I've been wanting to do. I searched VADIS and they only says to remove the engine nipple. Not sure what that looks like.

      As for the tbody cleaning, I does seem to idle more smoothly, but I'm going to keep an eye on it for the next few days to make sure it's not my mind playing tricks on me.

      2005 S40 T5 BSR Stage 3

    22. #22

      Re: (volvoNB)

      I cleaned the throttle body out in my '01 S40 last summer when I had it. It made the gas pedal operation more smooth, it had gotten a bit sticky. Since I believe our cars are drive-by-wire, and not cable, for the throttle, that wouldn't be relevant to us, unless I'm wrong.

    23. #23

      Re: (mattdoc)

      Can someone tell me where the throttle body is on a 2.4i?

    24. #24

      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (volvoNB)

      Damn, that looks dirty. How do you get carbon build-up on the throttle?Sorry for a newb question, but I thought the only carbon that you have to worry about was in combustion chamber and exhaust valves? The throttle and intake valves should only have filtered air passing, right? Or is it caused by the EGR?

      Another question: Do we have a MAF sensor that needs to be cleaned also?


    25. #25
      Junior Member AutoGeek's Avatar
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      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (raje)

      raje
      I see you are in Baltimore. Let me guess ... K__ns Volvo?

      Stan

      2005 V50 T5: IPD Rear Sway Bar, Koni Sport (Yellow) front and rear

      1998 V70 NA - Sold, 2002 S40 1.9T - R.I.P.

      Remember kids, Speed doesn't kill ... impact does!

    26. #26

      Re: Fuel Induction Cleaning ? (AutoGeek)

      a write up for the 2.4i anyone??

    27. #27
      Junior Member KLowD9x's Avatar
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      "Tach needle vibrates"

      Yeah...

      The DIM (Drivers Information Module) in that vehicle does nothing more than read off the information being broadcasted on the CAN network and doesn't have the resolution to notice a "vibration" of the engine RPM.

      Sample time is about 75ms unless there is a high priority message on the network.

      They just want your money.

      2004 Volvo S60 - x2