Reply With QuoteI would like to see a 300 HP C70. IMHO, one of these would END the "C70 VS. 3xxCI" discussion that I see here from time to time.
News surfaced this week that Ford will definitely build a P1-chassis Euro Focus RS, presumably with AWD and a 300bhp version of the Volvo 2.4T that powers the Focus ST, Volvo C30, S40, V50 and C70. We'd heard rumors of a C30R in development, and this news bolsters the idea.If you were a product planner at Volvo, for which P1 Volvo would you add an R variant? Of course, we'd love to see all of them get the R treatment, but this poll is to figure out which one our readers would most like to see.
I would like to see a 300 HP C70. IMHO, one of these would END the "C70 VS. 3xxCI" discussion that I see here from time to time.
1 small problem.
The current C70 won't support an AWD setup.
Quote, originally posted by VolvoMax » 1 small problem.
The current C70 won't support an AWD setup.That's fine. But more horsepower in a C70R version would still be a good thing, even if it wasn't of much use right off the line.
Even if it wasn't 300 hp, something in the neighborhood of 260 or so would be very cool.
Quote, originally posted by reschleicher » That's fine. But more horsepower in a C70R version would still be a good thing, even if it wasn't of much use right off the line.
Even if it wasn't 300 hp, something in the neighborhood of 260 or so would be very cool.
Great,then the usual suspects will complain about the torque steer
If Volvo were to do someting like this,they had better do it RIGHT.
That means AWD. That means a new chassis for the C70.
Just half a$$ing this and adding more hp isn't the right solution.
The C70 is an amazing machine, but it just seems to play to a different crowd...most of whom couldn't care less about 300hp...
i would like to see an s40r, but not necessarily w/ awd.my dream s40: volvo s40 3.2R
(waving magic wand)
3.2 i6 w/ 109 hp per liter = 349+ hp. 8000 rpm redline. transverse mount engine, but 6-speed manual trans w/ rwd output. lightweight header & exhaust system, roof, trunklid, suspension. tastefully flared, understated, wide-bodywork covering 10-inch wide rear wheels. limited slip rear. big brakes. under 3100 lbs.
did i miss anything?
The P1/C1 platform is nearly dead.
The transmission of this Euro focus RS may share his components with next 2009-2010 generation of EUCD S60/V50.
Quote, originally posted by VolvoMax » Great,then the usual suspects will complain about the torque steer
i hear LSDs work magic, instead of torque put to one wheel it goes to TWO, imagine what that would do for torque steer....
03' s60 T5m - poly mounts, poly control arm bushings, ipd sways, bilstein sports/eibachs, svr exhaust, powerslot rotors, and pegs
s40r yup. That's the ticket to chow on WRX's STi's, Evo's, M3's.
Quote, originally posted by VolvoMax » Great,then the usual suspects will complain about the torque steer
How does one get to torque steer from 300 hp? On a FWD car, torque steer is more about unequal length drive shafts than hp increases. Last I checked, the C70 has the same intermediate shaft that the S40/V50 cars have. So where is the torque steer going to come from?
Volvomax,You mentioned in your post above that the C70 would need a new chassis to get AWD. I think I've also heard this from several other sources, but have always wondered about it. Since the S40 has an AWD option, I would have thought that it would be relatively easy to give the C70 AWD. With the C70 already being pretty heavy I can understand why it wouldn't make sense to offer AWD with the current 227 hp T5 engine. But is there any other reason that would prevent AWD in the C70, if they did come out with a higher output R version? It might cut into an already small trunk space (with the top down), but I would still think that the basic platform should allow it. Anyway, I was just curious if you had any other info on this.
Quote, originally posted by JayDub » V50R, ala Audi RS4 Avant 
If the V50, why not the S40 as well? They both have the same drivetrain, so an R for one should be an R for the other as well.
Quote, originally posted by reschleicher » Volvomax, You mentioned in your post above that the C70 would need a new chassis to get AWD. I think I've also heard this from several other sources, but have always wondered about it. Since the S40 has an AWD option, I would have thought that it would be relatively easy to give the C70 AWD. With the C70 already being pretty heavy I can understand why it wouldn't make sense to offer AWD with the current 227 hp T5 engine. But is there any other reason that would prevent AWD in the C70, if they did come out with a higher output R version? It might cut into an already small trunk space (with the top down), but I would still think that the basic platform should allow it. Anyway, I was just curious if you had any other info on this.
I am not VolvoMax, but I will try to answer your question. As you observe, the clearance in the C70 chassis' trunk area is rather tight. Adding the rear driveline components for AWD will require a re-design of the rear chassis, which is a non-trivial effort. Given the cost of the re-design effort, from a cost containment perspective, it would be more likely to see an R edition of the S40/V50 cars, since they already have provision for AWD. The question is whether the folks at Volvo see it that way. They may feel that there is no need for a P1 R version; in which case, you ain't gonna get one. They are that stubborn.
Quote, originally posted by reschleicher » Volvomax, You mentioned in your post above that the C70 would need a new chassis to get AWD. I think I've also heard this from several other sources, but have always wondered about it. Since the S40 has an AWD option, I would have thought that it would be relatively easy to give the C70 AWD. With the C70 already being pretty heavy I can understand why it wouldn't make sense to offer AWD with the current 227 hp T5 engine. But is there any other reason that would prevent AWD in the C70, if they did come out with a higher output R version? It might cut into an already small trunk space (with the top down), but I would still think that the basic platform should allow it. Anyway, I was just curious if you had any other info on this.
If you look underneath a C70, you will see that the chassis reinforcing bars run directly through where the driveshaft would go.
To relocate those reinforcements would mean making the gas tank smaller for starters.
Plus, the additional weight of the drive system would mean a larger more powerful engine would be needed.
Quote, originally posted by VolvoMax » If you look underneath a C70, you will see that the chassis reinforcing bars run directly through where the driveshaft would go.
To relocate those reinforcements would mean making the gas tank smaller for starters.
Plus, the additional weight of the drive system would mean a larger more powerful engine would be needed.This is what I've heard as well. A hardtop C70 coupe would be awesome, but I don't think the numbers would warrant the development costs.
c30 all the way
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they already planning an "R" designation for C30 and S40, or was that just a styling/interior plan?
2005 S60R GT - Rica Stage II, Phuz DP, CAI, RP 5W-30
1992 960 - 185k, old and green.
Quote, originally posted by BeerEngineer » Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they already planning an "R" designation for C30 and S40, or was that just a styling/interior plan? just styling
"R Design"
how about a whole new car called the "R". not just tacking stuff onto cars that really arent designed for what the R should be. I'm thinking a sporty coupe with 350+ hp. i mean if volvo REALLY wants to be a true competitor with bmw and audi etc, 300 hp isnt going to cut it because both of them offer regular engines with around 300 hp...
Quote, originally posted by 2004volvos60R » how about a whole new car called the "R". not just tacking stuff onto cars that really arent designed for what the R should be. I'm thinking a sporty coupe with 350+ hp. i mean if volvo REALLY wants to be a true competitor with bmw and audi etc, 300 hp isnt going to cut it because both of them offer regular engines with around 300 hp... Nice idea.
Only problem is the development costs would choke a herd of elephants.
yea maybe volvo should take the money they spend on developing jus things like a anti theft, heart beat monitor for the inside of the s80 and develop something that is useful...... haha
and then the elephants would show us their "R" face. Still they may be approaching that with the so-called relaunch of the s60 in 2009.
2005 S60R GT - Rica Stage II, Phuz DP, CAI, RP 5W-30
1992 960 - 185k, old and green.
Quote, originally posted by mmb.net99 » i would like to see an s40r, but not necessarily w/ awd. my dream s40: volvo s40 3.2R
(waving magic wand)
3.2 i6 w/ 109 hp per liter = 349+ hp. 8000 rpm redline. transverse mount engine, but 6-speed manual trans w/ rwd output. lightweight header & exhaust system, roof, trunklid, suspension. tastefully flared, understated, wide-bodywork covering 10-inch wide rear wheels. limited slip rear. big brakes. under 3100 lbs.
did i miss anything?
Remember the SI6-powered focus RS that was supposed to debut back when they announced the SI6 and the P1 focus? It was supposed to have the new T6 engine massaged to ~350 hp along with AWD but they shelved it after most of the development work was done. I always hoped that they shelved that RS because they wanted instead to throw that drivetrain into a high-performance volvo.
I'm kind of disappointed to see just a 300hp 2.4 as the basis for these new R's, they'll be fast enough but volvo is missing out on a chance to make a real contender. They could base the new R models on an uprated T6 engine that could have it's output optimized for the chassis it's offered in, like AMG does now with the 6.3. Use this T6 in all of the R models from a ~300hp C30 or C70 through a 350hp S40 and V50 and on up to a T6-powered V70 or S80 that would make ~380 hp (or 120 hp/liter just like the S60R did). This would do wonders to lower development costs and if volvo could keep the 300hp C30R awd at around 32-35k for a bare model, they would have a real winner on their hands.
The S40 and V50 R models could also do a great bit of help bringing more attention and new buyers to those models which don't seem to have sold all that well around here.
This cracks me up. About 2 years ago, there was a debate on why there should be an R version of the P1 cars. There was even a poll, if memory serves. Nothing happened then. I can't see anything that has changed since that would motivate Ford/Volvo to release an R edition of a P1 car. Is this a theme that repeats itself every 2-3 years?
Quote, originally posted by avolvofan » This cracks me up. About 2 years ago, there was a debate on why there should be an R version of the P1 cars. There was even a poll, if memory serves. Nothing happened then. I can't see anything that has changed since that would motivate Ford/Volvo to release an R edition of a P1 car. Is this a theme that repeats itself every 2-3 years? Volvo isn't going to do anything based soley on a poll on an internet enthusiast site.
There are 3 questions that have to be answered before a new car is launched.
How many are you going to sell?
At what price?
At what profit per unit?Sadly, the R cars,esp a P1 or C30R don't have good answers.
Quote, originally posted by VolvoMax » Volvo isn't going to do anything based soley on a poll on an internet enthusiast site.
There are 3 questions that have to be answered before a new car is launched.
How many are you going to sell?
At what price?
At what profit per unit?Sadly, the R cars,esp a P1 or C30R don't have good answers.
I definitely can appreciate that Volvo is not going to do anything based on a poll on an Internet enthusiast site.Unfortunately, Volvo owners do not exhibit similar demographics as Audi or BMW owners; which is why the answers to the 3 questions you pose inevitably result in Volvo deciding to pass on products like an R edition for the P1 cars. From what I have heard, Volvo took a bath on the S60R and V70R; so any effort to repeat the experience on the P1 cars would not get a very positive reception in either Volvo or Ford product planning meetings.
Quote, originally posted by avolvofan »
I definitely can appreciate that Volvo is not going to do anything based on a poll on an Internet enthusiast site.Unfortunately, Volvo owners do not exhibit similar demographics as Audi or BMW owners; which is why the answers to the 3 questions you pose inevitably result in Volvo deciding to pass on products like an R edition for the P1 cars. From what I have heard, Volvo took a bath on the S60R and V70R; so any effort to repeat the experience on the P1 cars would not get a very positive reception in either Volvo or Ford product planning meetings.
Bingo!
BMW and Audi's owner base have demonstrated a willingness to pay for the hot cars.
To be fair, the Germans esp BMW have done an excellent job of stoking the hype machine and delivering the goods.
Quote, originally posted by VolvoMax » Bingo!
BMW and Audi's owner base have demonstrated a willingness to pay for the hot cars.
To be fair, the Germans esp BMW have done an excellent job of stoking the hype machine and delivering the goods.
It really is unfortunate that Volvo owners demographics are not like those of Audi and BMW owners. I personally would really like to see an R edition of the P1 cars.... Think of it - the performance of an M3 across the P1 line would be awesome, but it ain't gonna happen. If you want a performance car, you are going to have to go somewhere else (than Volvo).
Quote, originally posted by avolvofan »
It really is unfortunate that Volvo owners demographics are not like those of Audi and BMW owners. I personally would really like to see an R edition of the P1 cars.... Think of it - the performance of an M3 across the P1 line would be awesome, but it ain't gonna happen. If you want a performance car, you are going to have to go somewhere else (than Volvo).Volvo has always been a sensible shoes kind of car,and it attracts that kind of buyer.
When you have that kind of customer,it does limit what you can do as a car company.
i think that volvo really could sell a decent amount of p1 Rs if they would spend a little on marketing, i mean my brother, dad, and i are all into cars but i hadnt really heard much of the s60R until i stumbled across one when i was looking for a car for myself.
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