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ATTN EVERYBODY.... No more free software!!!!

42K views 405 replies 94 participants last post by  Mbarocker 
#1 · (Edited)
ATTN EVERYBODY.... No more free software!!!! (edited OP)

Sorry to say but Volvo has decided to stop reimbursing dealerships for updating software during services. This means no more free labor to the customer for software. HOWEVER, each dealership is different and may still do it (at the cost of the technicians time AKA free) but its doubtful because Nobody works for free :thumbdown:

NOTE: The software is still free as Volvo promises to its customers, but how do customers plan to get it to their vehicle? Tech's time and VIDA is not free.

Volvo's Service 2.0 is the package that we offer to our customers as a complimentary enhancement when they service their Volvo. Service 2.0 consists of the same software that can be found in our PDS or Total Upgrade software. This was developed as a no cost tool to create a differentiator from the independent workshops. Due to low installation of Service 2.0 it was determined in March 2018 Customer Service would compensate dealers in the U.S. for their labor to grow installation rates in an effort to increase customer retention and lower warranty expense for Volvo Cars USA.

However, after careful analysis VCUSA has determined there has not been adequate upside to service retention or customer satisfaction as a result of this goodwill. To date, less than half of the cars eligible for the upgrade are getting it. In addition, we will be removing Complimentary Software updates from our suite of customer promises under the Service by Volvo umbrella. Effective August 1, 2019 Volvo Car USA will cease labor reimbursement associated with the complimentary Service 2.0 software update.


I have no more specifics, just personal opinions/disappointment/anger!!!!

Email VCUSA with your displeasure of broken promises and poor customer support
 
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#207 ·
While this is annoying I'm not sure I see the big deal. Volvo is very much an "old school" brand and their updates are pretty minor. The functionality you get when you buy the car is what you expect, no more. This isn't a Tesla.

When I have the total update there was very little difference. The responsiveness of sensus was better but that really would be a warranty item anyway. PA didn't improve at all and Volvo is so timid on level 2 driving I would not be surprised if they actually take features away from PA in updates.

I like the sound of an Android auto skinned sensus. If it can improve the sensus responsiveness in the 2018 xc60 that would go a long ways toward me being less irritated with Volvo.

Frankly if I know they're charging for it I'll just complain about the system being too slow, it is, and escalate it to a warranty item. If they balk I'll report it to the NHTSA, which I'm dangerously close to doing anyway, because I think the fact that it's super slow AND the only way to do things (no buttons) is a safety issue.
 
#208 ·
While this is annoying I'm not sure I see the big deal. Volvo is very much an "old school" brand and their updates are pretty minor. The functionality you get when you buy the car is what you expect, no more. This isn't a Tesla.

When I have the total update there was very little difference. The responsiveness of sensus was better but that really would be a warranty item anyway. PA didn't improve at all and Volvo is so timid on level 2 driving I would not be surprised if they actually take features away from PA in updates.

I like the sound of an Android auto skinned sensus. If it can improve the sensus responsiveness in the 2018 xc60 that would go a long ways toward me being less irritated with Volvo.

Frankly if I know they're charging for it I'll just complain about the system being too slow, it is, and escalate it to a warranty item. If they balk I'll report it to the NHTSA, which I'm dangerously close to doing anyway, because I think the fact that it's super slow AND the only way to do things (no buttons) is a safety issue.
I call BS on that one. You won't do any such thing. Just get a different car if you hate it that much. Keep your fingers away from the screen if you're concerned about "safety" (put your AC on auto)
 
#212 ·
I'll report back about my dealer. Just dropped our XC90 off for vibration under braking...for the 4th time since we bought it. I asked them to update the software, and they asked if the car was telling me there was an update. I said no, I read there was an update in May and one recently that addressed air suspension, auto pilot, Polestar and some other tweaks.
 
#215 · (Edited)
Forgive me if this has already been discussed in this thread. I'm wondering how Volvo can compete with a company like Tesla that supplies owners with continuous software updates remotely over the airways at no charge.
 
#216 ·
Forgive me if this has already been discussed in this thread. I'm wondering how Volvo can compete with a company like Tesla that supplies owners with continuous software updates for owners remotely over the airways at no charge.
That's the real question. For a company that wants to compete with Tesla they currently have the wrong strategy.

Volvo wants all the Tesla perks but none of the drawbacks. They wish they had no dealer franchises like Tesla for sure.

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#221 ·
Help me understand. How do Volvo dealers pay their techs in the US? Do techs get paid an hourly rate, or by the job with no base hourly rate?

I doubt the tech gets the $100 to $150/hour that the dealers charge?
All the guys I know from various Volvo dealers across the US work on what is called flat rate. This is not specific to Volvo. This is how most auto techs at dealerships in the US are paid, aside from Tesla.

We get an hourly rate that is multiplied by booked hours. Different jobs pay different hours, in tenths of an hour. That is regardless of how long the job actually takes. These times come from a standard time guide, such as AllData. If a time is not in a time guide, a multiplier of the warranty time is used. So if a job pays 1 hour under warranty and the shop uses a 1.6x multiplier, the same job will pay 1.6 hours out of warranty.

So a P2 timing belt might pay 3 hours. I can do it in about 30 minutes. I do the job and get 3 hours and move on to the next job. Maybe my next job is warranty pistons on a Drive-E. That's around 12 hours. It might take me 15 hours. I do the job and get 12 hours.

So at the end of a week, I have worked 40 hours. I might be paid for 45 hours. Or 60 hours. Or 80 hours. Or 35 hours. You get the idea.

The hourly rate is nowhere near what the shop charges.
 
#225 ·
Wow.

Sorry to say but Volvo has decided to stop reimbursing dealerships for updating software during services. This means no more free labor to the customer for software. HOWEVER, each dealership is different and may still do it (at the cost of the technicians time AKA free) but its doubtful because Nobody works for free :thumbdown:

NOTE: The software is still free as Volvo promises to its customers, but how do customers plan to get it to their vehicle? Tech's time and VIDA is not free.

Volvo's Service 2.0 is the package that we offer to our customers as a complimentary enhancement when they service their Volvo. Service 2.0 consists of the same software that can be found in our PDS or Total Upgrade software. This was developed as a no cost tool to create a differentiator from the independent workshops. Due to low installation of Service 2.0 it was determined in March 2018 Customer Service would compensate dealers in the U.S. for their labor to grow installation rates in an effort to increase customer retention and lower warranty expense for Volvo Cars USA.

However, after careful analysis VCUSA has determined there has not been adequate upside to service retention or customer satisfaction as a result of this goodwill. To date, less than half of the cars eligible for the upgrade are getting it. In addition, we will be removing Complimentary Software updates from our suite of customer promises under the Service by Volvo umbrella. Effective August 1, 2019 Volvo Car USA will cease labor reimbursement associated with the complimentary Service 2.0 software update.


I have no more specifics, just personal opinions/disappointment/anger!!!!

Email VCUSA with your displeasure of broken promises and poor customer support
Wow. Yes, I have a 2015.5 XC70. Believe it or not, I just got my last free service last week. I've asked about software updates on the last 2 visits. I get "oh sure, we checked" as a response, but it's obviously an afterthought. My mistake for not asking before the service. There is no way the service advisor at the front desk knows, It is obvious I'm being blown off. The time involved to do this service, and what is undoubtedly limited reimbursement to the dealer and little money for the tech is the reason why this is not being done, not the lack of interest by customers. The efforts by Volvo appear to be half hearted at best.
 
#231 · (Edited)
Wow. Yes, I have a 2015.5 XC70. Believe it or not, I just got my last free service last week. I've asked about software updates on the last 2 visits. I get "oh sure, we checked" as a response, but it's obviously an afterthought. My mistake for not asking before the service. There is no way the service advisor at the front desk knows, It is obvious I'm being blown off. The time involved to do this service, and what is undoubtedly limited reimbursement to the dealer and little money for the tech is the reason why this is not being done, not the lack of interest by customers. The efforts by Volvo appear to be half hearted at best.
At my dealership we include 2.0 softwares on P1/2/3 chassis cars with every service (if it's available) whether it's customer-paid or warranty, but P3s have had VERY infrequent updates if any at all anymore. The only time I see them now is when cars come in from a now-defunct dealer to have a service. The tech may have checked, found that all that was on the software list was the Total MOST/IHU update and shipped it without telling the advisor since the 2.0 wasn't available.
 
#226 ·
This could mean that Volvo Sweden is having problems with Software Quality, and is not testing releases adequately, using the crutch of in-the-field bug fixes. Many embedded software product vendors fall into this trap. The hope is that Senior Management is telling the software groups, we're going to make you own the Volvo reputation in each and every release.

Let's be clear, it's a "bet the brand" gambit. If that doesn't work to get off bullet-proof software releases, Volvo will be forced into a corner where they have to allow customers to access software updates directly from a software server. The security and safety rigors of direct download are considerable, hanging a tempting target out for car hackers.
 
#227 ·
I am speechless. Doesn't Volvo know that in the largest competitive market in the world and the abundance of choice, the American customer/consumer will not tolerate a company that re-negs on its promise? Doesn't Volvo know about the negative publicity this can cause? A smaller car company that wants to increase its market share shoots itself in the foot with a shotgun.


So has anybody contacted VCUSA? and got a response?
 
#228 ·
It seems to me that we can take what they say as their actual rationale:

Volvo's Service 2.0 is the package that we offer to our customers as a complimentary enhancement when they service their Volvo. Service 2.0 consists of the same software that can be found in our PDS or Total Upgrade software. This was developed as a no cost tool to create a differentiator from the independent workshops. Due to low installation of Service 2.0 it was determined in March 2018 Customer Service would compensate dealers in the U.S. for their labor to grow installation rates in an effort to increase customer retention and lower warranty expense for Volvo Cars USA.

However, after careful analysis VCUSA has determined there has not been adequate upside to service retention or customer satisfaction as a result of this goodwill. To date, less than half of the cars eligible for the upgrade are getting it. In addition, we will be removing Complimentary Software updates from our suite of customer promises under the Service by Volvo umbrella. Effective August 1, 2019 Volvo Car USA will cease labor reimbursement associated with the complimentary Service 2.0 software update.

It doesn't seem to be a real clever idea, since it actually says that half the eligible cars aren't getting an update, so we may as well quit trying. Supposedly, the idea is to offer a free carrot to get more customers into the dealers, but it's not working. You'd think that they would wonder WHY it isn't drawing customers like flies when you give away techno-crap. Couldn't be poor advertising? Whatever, it doesn't seem to be a major loss.
What is Service 2.0, anyway? Maybe Tech or Gunshow could shed some light on it, but from the name, I would have to wonder if it isn't some kind of service marketing agenda that gets first the customer information from non-regular dealer customers, and then parses mileage and driver data to get those "Your Service is Due" mailers out after they tried to sell you every repair your car "needs". If "Service 2.0" is a one size fits all software update that applies to any Volvo that enters the driveway at the dealer, it likely won't do us as much good as it does the Marketing folks. After all, it says that "Service 2.0" can be found in the real software update.
From what I've seen in the forums about the "Service for Life" free diagnosis and software "Checkup", the real problem with participation is that a great many dealers aren't signing on for doing it anyway. Many posters have said that their dealers weren't doing it for free despite prolonged begging and arguing. Dealer agreements don't have any teeth in them. I've seen it many times where Volvo comes up with some brainstorm and then sends the tablets down the mount to the dealers, and the dealers say: "Noooooo, I don't think so.....".
 
#230 · (Edited)
This thread has some more info on Service 2.0:
https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?t=598903

This is copied from one of my posts there before Volvo stopped reimbursement for the Service 2.0:

"When we plug in (or if I manually enter a VIN), when I go to the software screen one of two things will happen.

Either no updates are shown, meaning everything is up to date or three software packages will show up: Total Upgrade, PDS upgrade and Service 2.0 Upgrade.

These have different part numbers but do the same thing. They update all modules that need updating for that specific car. The Total Upgrade is used when there is a warranty concern that is addressed by updating software. The Service 2.0 Upgrade is used when the car is in for its maintenance service. The PDS can only be used once, that is done when we first inspect and prep a new car."
 
#232 ·
wouldn't it just be easier for a customer to bring the car in for service and bring up an issue which would force an update? i work for a very large manufacturer (larger than volvo) and whenever a customer tells us they are experiencing a problem the first thing we offer is a free update if you have a warranty with us. It's pretty much standard operating procedure. that way both the dealer gets paid for the update due to it now becomes a warranty issue and we get the update for free?
 
#234 ·
I find it funny that they say it was due to lack of interest or installations. I've tried for 3 visits now with my new S90T8 to get the april/may update and they have refused to do it the first 2 times, and failed to remember to do it the 3rd. I have two new issues with the car and zero expectations that I can get them resolved. Not a happy Volvo owner.
 
#238 ·
Volvo revised their Service Manager Bulletin regarding when to use which software effective August 1st. They are definitely putting it all on the dealers. It says, in part:

"Volvo Car USA will no longer reimburse Labor Time for Service 2.0 Software. Servicr 2.0 Software installation is no longer claimable.

It is strongly encourage that Service 2.0 still be offered to customers at each service maintenance visit at no cost to the customer."
A polite "F*CK YOU" to the techs whom Volvo expects to work for free.....
 
#239 ·
Haha, I cant help but laugh at how ridiculous this whole scenario is.

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#242 ·
The free software thing started before the SPA platform. P1/P2/P3 cars had way fewer updates and the updates rarely fixed anything the customer was noticing. Then the SPA cars came out and they are updated much more often and the updates made a noticeable difference. They also took a lot longer and that's why we stopped doing them (speaking for my dealer but I know we weren't the only ones). Then Volvo agreed to pay us .5 (even though it often took longer).

Now a days I rarely see a P2 that has the Service 2.0 update available. But also, on those cars the Service 2.0 package did not update all modules in the car that needed updating like it does on SPA cars.
 
#243 ·
I am a firm believer that "The laborer is worthy of his hire . . . " In other words, I wouldn't expect a technician to perform work for free. However, when I bought my 2016 XC90, free software updates WERE a part of the deal. I have an issue with any vendor suddenly choosing that they will no longer fulfill their stated promises or obligations. Volvo has apparently decided that they will allow each dealer to individually decide whether - or to what extent - they want to be liars or not. I find putting them in this position is rather unseemly for a company that used to stand for something, and will be difficult for Volvo to escape a corporate black eye for. Just my opinion, of course.
 
#245 ·
Wow. Yeah, not what I signed up for considering half of the issues with this car have been software-related. Since new features are seldom added, if my dealer tries to charge me for a software update for their buggy platform, consider this my last Volvo. Not to be overly dramatic, but "complimentary software updates" didn't come with an asterisk.

They should re-analyze their data and conclusions-- while free software updates might not impact customer retention or satisfaction positively, making them paid will impact it negatively without a doubt.
 
#246 ·
Yep....what he said. Tesla is looking better and better as a future option.......
 
#247 ·
I really don't think this will be as big of a deal.

While in warranty, if you have a complaint that software fixes then you'll get the update. This is at any visit, not just maintenance services.

Outside of warranty, if you are bringing you car to the dealer and buying their maintenance service, which is likely overpriced, I can't see a dealership not absorbing the relatively small cost to update the software at that time.

If you are out of warranty and there is an issue that may be solved with a software update, then this changes nothing. It wasn't free before either.
 
#269 · (Edited)
I am pretty sure this has been said numerous times but worth repeating.

NOW HERE IS THE GOOD STUFF:

Volvo "strongly encourages we continue updating SW during services". They are strongly encouraging we work for free?

China owned company that use to pay us to perform a specific job will no longer pay us to perform the job but encourages us to continue and do it for free.

We are paid based off billable hours and SW was billable at 1/2 hour.

Employers in the United States must pay employees for all hours worked and cannot force workers to labor without receiving minimum compensation set by federal or state law. An employer cannot sanction, discriminate against or fire an employee for not working without pay.
 
#273 ·
I am on the side of the techs on this one... no one should be forced to work for free. But I had an interesting thought. I am not really familiar with how the paying structure works but let’s say the 10,000 mile service pays a tech 2hr plus the software upgrade pays 0.5hr. Now let’s say Volvo now includes the SW upgrade in the 10,000 mile service procedure and techs get paid the same 2hr and is expected to do it? Not saying it’s right but could something like that happen?


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#274 ·
I am on the side of the techs on this one... no one should be forced to work for free. But I had an interesting thought. I am not really familiar with how the paying structure works but let's say the 10,000 mile service pays a tech 2hr plus the software upgrade pays 0.5hr. Now let's say Volvo now includes the SW upgrade in the 10,000 mile service procedure and techs get paid the same 2hr and is expected to do it? Not saying it's right but could something like that happen?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not happening. Techs aren't paid flat rate, but by book hours. Gunshow gave example that under warranty, a job might take 16 hours, but he's only paid 12. I doubt techs are going to stand for a further discount of their labor rate. I.E Bundling Software updates into the 10, 20, and 30K complimentary Maintenance.

Of course, software updates are still given if they are necessary to fix a warranty issue instead of updates or upgrades for the sake of having the newest software.
 
#277 ·
This whole topic is made murkier by the asinine way that dealers charge for services.

You pay 3 hours for a 30 minute job, so that a 3 hour job that doesn't go well doesn't have to charge 5 hours.
Everyone loses.
 
#278 ·
It's not just dealers, it's pretty much the entire American auto repair industry.

I could probably write a dissertation on the flat rate pay system but I will not. Just read what the techs in this thread have said. You can rest assured their comments are merely the tip of the iceberg.
 
#281 ·
#284 ·
All they did was add this back

*Complimentary software updates are available at your participating Volvo dealer.*

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#290 · (Edited)
The people who posted had services booked before this change went into effect, but the service date itself was after this change occurred.. And several had to argue and haggle with the dealer to get the free software honored. What happens going forward is anyone's guess.

But being that YOU DON'T work for free, I see very little likelihood most franchises are going to absorb the cost. Which means either you DO IT for no charge (work for free) or customer pays.

So we all know what that means... $$$$ Customer $$$$
 
#291 ·
Those dealers were probably caught off guard like everyone else. Now that there's been some time and they know about it, dealers should have a policy in place. I still think it's unlikely that a dealer is going to argue much over it when someone is coming in and buying their overpriced service. Some might actually build it into the price of services.
 
#292 ·
I've yet to know a dealer or its staff that works for free....You reaffirmed my stance...
Some might actually build it into the price of services.
Meaning the customer will ultimately pay one way or another.

So that 40K service will have a few hundred bucks tacked on (price increase) and the dealer gets to call it free software. When in fact the service price was raised to compensate for the monetary difference and lack of Volvo reimbursement.
 
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