V8 "CB-Club" Members - V8 counter balance shaft failure thread
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    1. #1
      Junior Member safetyfirst's Avatar
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      V8 "CB-Club" Members - V8 counter balance shaft failure thread

      Our counter balance shaft failed last August. I'm sure many of us remain interested in knowing what caused these failures. I thought it could be useful (especially for new members of the "V8 CB-Club") to have a thread with information from other owners whose V8's have failed. Engine # 6833 is reportedly the cut-off for problems. This might help identify (or exclude) particular circumstances leading to the failure of these bearings.

      I'll kick off and would encourage anyone with ideas for additional categories of information to chime in. Maybe one of the administrators could consider making this a sticky, although sadly I suspect it will be bumped frequently enough that this may be unnecessary. We can always edit our own posts to add extra info as the thread progresses. I've suggested a format below, with "na" for 'not applicable', and "?" for 'unknown'. Please make suggestions. Sorry for the survey-like nature of the post, but such a resource may be of use for those other unfortunate souls that experience this sort of event.

      Model year -
      Chassis number -
      Delivery date -
      Age at Failure -
      Mileage at failure -
      Engine number (if known) -
      Average driving history - e.g. hard ; moderate; easy.
      Environmental conditions and approx % time in each - e.g. dry; wet; snow or ice.
      Washed engine ? - e.g. bucket of water cloth; hose; pressure hose.
      Repair action - e.g. counter balance shaft bearing and other essential parts only; replacement engine.
      Time to Repair -
      Repaired under - e.g. factory warranty; extended warranty; my wallet.
      Repair cost -
      Cost to You -
      Name of Dealership -
      Supportive Dealer ? -
      Supportive VCNA ? -
      Other comments -


      Model year - 2005
      Chassis Number - 0194827
      Delivery date - 03/16/2005 via OSD
      Age at Failure - 3 yr 5 mo
      Mileage at failure - 36,376
      Engine number - 4,333
      Average driving history - Moderate
      Environmental conditions and approx % time in each - dry 95%; wet 5%; ice or snow 1%.
      Washed engine ? - Never
      Repair action - New long block
      Time to Repair - 15 days
      Repaired under - Volvo Increased Protection, TOTAL CARE (NEW) - cost $ 2,251
      Repair cost - $14,422.26 (Volvo's cost for new long block with exchange of old = $10,536.45)
      Cost to You - $234.36
      Name of Dealership - Volvo of Orange County
      Supportive Dealer ? - Extremely good
      Supportive VCNA ? - na
      Other comments -

      2005 XC90 V8 AWD, Silver / Oak, IPD Sways and Endlinks, Shod with 19" Vulcanis and Pirelli Scorpion Verde AS+
      CB-shaft failure at 36k miles and Valve Body failure at 44k - thankful for 7yr-100k VIP extended warranty.
      Head-on collision at 49k miles - thankful for being in a Volvo.

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    3. #2
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      Re: V8 "CB-Club" Members - V8 counter balance shaft failure thread (safetyfirst)

      Hi everyone! My cb shaft bearing failed back in Sept. I have no warranty, and I can't afford volvo's $125.00 an hour labor rate. Fourtunately, I have another vehicle to drive. Well, my new year's resolution was to fix the volvo!!
      I've got engine dismantled. Bearing was hammered!! I shut off engine before bearing and shaft actually siezed up, so my valves didn't invade my pistons. See all pics!
      74,500 miles
      I purchased vehicle used, August 1 2008. I LOVE this vehicle, when it was running!! Not so much right nowhttp://pix.kg/p/195452445215%3A2127399084/sct.
      engine # 0000359
      I'm really unsure where to drill drain hole in block. I would like to read tech bulliten Hardattack mentioned. Does anyone know where I could find it?
      I would definately like to talk to volvo about this. Any advise on where I should start? Should I contact a dealership first or call VCNA?
      Last edited by ione2retire; 03-19-2012 at 08:18 PM. Reason: bad link

    4. #3
      Junior Member crash's Avatar
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      wow, this is reminiscent of the T6 days. everyone was encouraged to post their model, package and build dates.

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    6. #4
      Junior Member safetyfirst's Avatar
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      Re: V8 "CB-Club" Members - V8 counter balance shaft failure thread (ione2retire)

      Wow - your poor sod - that's your blood on the block ! Well, that answers one of my earlier questions about the bearing manufacturer - MTM is one of the brand names for Harpal bearing co in Dehli. Not SKF as I thought it might have been.
      2005 XC90 V8 AWD, Silver / Oak, IPD Sways and Endlinks, Shod with 19" Vulcanis and Pirelli Scorpion Verde AS+
      CB-shaft failure at 36k miles and Valve Body failure at 44k - thankful for 7yr-100k VIP extended warranty.
      Head-on collision at 49k miles - thankful for being in a Volvo.

    7. #5
      Junior Member AccuView's Avatar
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      Re: V8 "CB-Club" Members - V8 counter balance shaft failure thread (safetyfirst)

      Quote, originally posted by safetyfirst »
      Wow - your poor sod - that's your blood on the block ! Well, that answers one of my earlier questions about the bearing manufacturer - MTM is one of the brand names for Harpal bearing co in Dehli. Not SKF as I thought it might have been.

      Actually, the photo says NTN - it's a Japanese company with offices in US and elsewhere.

      http://www.ntnamerica.com/

      2016 Volvo XC90 T6 Inscription Polestar (OSD)

    8. #6
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      Re: V8 "CB-Club" Members - V8 counter balance shaft failure thread (ione2retire)

      Photoes are great. Hang in there.

      What brand bearing are you installing?

      Please keep us posted.

      No failure here yet, but I called VCNA customer service direct and lodged my concerns.

      Maybe Geely will step up as they purchase Volvo.

      Toyota did a complete head gasket replace no charge on my ten year old 4Runner.

      2005 XC90 V8 Black Sapphire OSD: March 2005
      CB bearing fixed at 72,000 miles. Currently: 100,000 miles.

    9. #7
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      I dont know yet, Just finished taking apart yesterday, I haven't ordered any parts yet, Want to contact volvo first, as I mentioned before, Not quite sure wether I should call a local dealer or VCNA? I would like to have someone from Volvo look at this and provide some sort of compensation, wether it is monetary or parts.

    10. #8
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      Re: (ione2retire)

      You are my hero.

      As a 2005 owner with a low-number engine and 77k on the clock, I'm watching with great interest. The pictures are great and really helped me to understand what and where that part really is. I'm looking forward to hearing Volvo's response to this.

      Dirk


    11. #9
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      Re: (XC90Dirk)

      I have been watching this with great issue, I have a 05 from May OSD and did not buy the extended warrenty. I contacted VCNA and this was the reply....

      Dear Mr. Reed,

      Thank you for your email.

      Beginning with engine #6671, the problem you mentioned was corrected in production at the factory. Your vehicle engine is #6756. The correction was already made to your particular car.

      Despite what you have been told, the production correction did resolve the issue.

      You also asked about precautions. We recommend not washing the engine.

      Sincerely,

      Bart

      VCNA

      Take that for what you will.

      Thanks all for the prior sharing.


    12. #10
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      Re: (fruitbat)

      I contacted volvo yesterday (VCNA)and they basically told me to go pound salt!! They did however tell me to save all of my receipts, that if this issue turns into a recall, I would be reimbursed. I contacted a local volvo dealer and spoke with the parts manager. He told me that they have only encountered 1 CB shaft failure. I ordered all the parts, should be receiving them sometime next week. Got the hole drilled in block, and all gasket mating surfaces clean, should be all set to assemble!!
      Volvo knew that this was an issue, that's the reason for the tech bulitin about how to make the drainage hole, and the early production change to include drainage hole. They should have stepped up to the plate and taken care of this issue instead of letting these early production models out the door! Now us, the poor S.O.B.'s that own one, have to deal with it. It's times like this I wish I was the Attorney General or a corporate lawyer


      Modified by ione2retire at 7:45 AM 1-9-2010

    13. #11

      Re: (ione2retire)

      Ione2retire, thanks for all the info you have shared. Sorry Volvo corporate did not (yet) step up ... hopefully they will.

      Some questions, please:

      1. I'm curious about the rear bearing to countershaft connection. Does the shaft merely press into the inner race? ... does one need a "puller" to separate the two? Is there a retainer ... such as a circlip?

      2. The top removable portion of the rear bearing journal (the "bearing cover") is held in place with three long screws/bolts. If this were changed to a set of three studs and nuts ... instead of screws ... would this make the bearing-cover removable, while both heads remain in place? Would this lead to making the bearing replacement something that could be more easily done?

      3. Assumes one owns a '05 V8 that is yet low-mileage and apparently still has significant life on the rear bearing. Would the following be a good maintenance action? ... is it even doable?...:
      A. Using compressed air, clean out the area ... the "pocket"... behind the rear bearing mount.
      B. Using a grease gun with flexible-hose adapter ... pump synthetic high temp axle/bearing grease into the "pocket" ... continue until the grease has mounded and completely fills the open area. The grease-mound is intended to keep all liquids or condensation out of the area behind the bearing.
      C. If the area is accessible to the fingers, cover the grease-mound with a customed-cut flexible plastic fabric (think tarp material) for additional protection.

      ??

      ... I don't want "My Volvo to save my life". I prefer to drive extra safely; avoid the accident, ....and save my Volvo's life.

    14. #12

      Re: (12Ounce)

      Problem with attempting to seal the area with grease is that if any moisture does get in the
      moisture will be trapped. Better to just keep water away from the engine. The drain hole doesnt
      guarantee it wont fail, it just lessens the chances by letting as much moisture out as possible. It
      is not a good application for a sealed bearing.

      2005 XC90 2.5T AWD (car)
      2000 F350 4x4 diesel (truck)

    15. #13
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      Re: (dmd)

      dmd hit the nail on the head! Definitely not a good application of a sealed bearing!! The rear bearing is pressed on the CB shaft, no clips or retainers. Mine was so badly wore that it just fell off on dissassembly. I really don't have an answer to your other questions, I'm not a mechanic, jack of all trades, master of none! I do feel dmd is correct here too about the grease trapping moisture. I believe heat would also be a big factor. I'm not sure, but as bearing begins to fail, or even in normal operation, it must get hot, due to location, and the nature of the beast. Too much grease could be a fire hazard in this location. There is not much ventilation in this area. Changing the bolts to studs may be beneficial, I'm still thinking about that one.

    16. #14

      Re: (ione2retire)

      I would have thought the aluminum split journal would have been enough of a heat sink for the bearing ... until the bearing gets into the final failure mode and very high temps. OK, I will put away the "glob of grease" idea for the time being .....

      "Mind designing" on the studs a bit more: Assume the studs are be similar to hardened steel set-screws that you have seen ... with a hex recess on the end for using an Allen wrench. "Perhaps" if the stud length is selected properly ... upon bearing failure, the three nuts could be removed ... and the studs driven deeper into the block for even more disassembly clearance! Whaddayathink?

      The bearing should not have much mechanical loading on it ... less than in the rear of a alternator one would think. Just a bad location. Little access. There has to be a good absolute "fix"!!

      So far, I've never seen any detail other than your photos ... but it is an intriguing problem. (BTW, I've started shopping for a high-mileage XC90 V8!!)

      ... I don't want "My Volvo to save my life". I prefer to drive extra safely; avoid the accident, ....and save my Volvo's life.

    17. #15
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      When the bearing fails, the balance shaft must be removed to change bearing. Not enough room to do so unless you remove bank 1 cylinder head. From a PM point of view, stud idea might possibly work to clean & relube bearing. Good thinking!!

    18. #16

      Re: (ione2retire)

      Thanks for your feedback on the concept. I just gotta get my hands on that engine ....!

      (Did you mean "bank #2" ... the one closer to the radiator?)

      ... I don't want "My Volvo to save my life". I prefer to drive extra safely; avoid the accident, ....and save my Volvo's life.

    19. #17
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      Yes! I thought that was bank 1 uht ooo!

    20. #18
      Junior Member Bigjon's Avatar
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      What about removing the balance shaft altogether? Can you eliminate that failure mode in return for a coarser ride?
      99 V70 Stick - Soon to be Scrapped
      00 V70 T5 Stick
      95 BMW M3 Stick
      07 XC90 V8 with chestnut brown interior

    21. #19

      Re: (Bigjon)

      Quote, originally posted by Bigjon »
      What about removing the balance shaft altogether? Can you eliminate that failure mode in return for a coarser ride?

      That would be a huge re-engineering task ... the chain would have to be shorter, or the chain wheel left in the same location to keep the chain path the same ... then how would the chain wheel be supported? .. Huge!

      My thinking is it is easier to deal with the rear bearing where it is ... perhaps install a grease fitting somewhere ?? In the upper journal cover perhaps?? There are bearings manufactured that have a grease path provided thru the outside race ... not sure they are made in these dimensions. Will take some on-hand study.

      Another whimsical thought is to keep the rear bearing mostly as is ... but pop off the inner seal. Easily done. Of course, keep the outer seal in place. Pour in motor oil in and around the counter shaft ... then put the shaft cover in place. Don't put in so much oil that the shaft whips it .... just enough to slosh about .... washing the bearing occassionally. ?? . . ... Perhaps an "atmosphere" hose/tube will have to be added to connect the shaft chamber with the crankcase, allowing excess oil splash to be removed. Along with a top-off provision to the crank chamber. ??





      Modified by 12Ounce at 4:38 AM 1-10-2010

      ... I don't want "My Volvo to save my life". I prefer to drive extra safely; avoid the accident, ....and save my Volvo's life.

    22. #20
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      Re: (12Ounce)

      If you look at photo 100-5885 on my flicker link, you can see an oblong hole right at the end of balance shaft chamber. This is a factory supplied drain hole. It goes right under the journal that is molded into block for rear CB shaft bearing. It then goes under waterjacket (coolant)chamber, and botoms out against transmission cover. I haven't been able to see where it actually drains. Just to the right of the journal that's in the block, is where the tech buliten shows to drill an 8mm. hole, 3mm. deep and 9mm. from the edge of where the bearing cover mounts, thus connecting the factory supplied drain to the hole that was drilled. This is the key to the engine serial #'s. Pre 6833?(not sure correct#) Didn't have this hole, Post 6833? Do have this hole. I have pics of where I drilled this hole, I'll attempt to post them tomorrow. This is Volvo's Idea of extending the life of this innapropriate use of a sealed bearing!!


      Modified by ione2retire at 8:07 AM 1-10-2010


      Modified by ione2retire at 12:44 PM 1-10-2010


    23. #21
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      Re: (12Ounce)

      Quote, originally posted by 12Ounce »
      Thanks for your feedback on the concept. I just gotta get my hands on that engine ....!

      (Did you mean "bank #2" ... the one closer to the radiator?)

      If your planning a trip to the New York area in the near future, I could certainly use an extra set of hands to assemble this bugger!!!

    24. #22

      Re: (ione2retire)

      Quote, originally posted by ione2retire »
      .....If your planning a trip to the New York area in the near future .....

      Thanks for the travel suggestion (Love New York!), but its cold enough down here in JawJaw.

      'Nother question: .How is it intended for the countershaft to be installed/removed? From "overhead"? ... up and to the rear?
      Or, if the engine cover is off, chain removed, etc ..... can the shaft be withdrawn straight out the front of the engine?? (It certainly looks as tho it might ...)

      ... I don't want "My Volvo to save my life". I prefer to drive extra safely; avoid the accident, ....and save my Volvo's life.

    25. #23
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      In order to remove shaft you have to pull it from the front to pull front bearing out. Then slide shaft back in and remove from top. volvo has a special puller to do this. I didn't have that, so I made one out of a 3/4 inch drive socket, and a 4in. long bolt. you could remove shaft from front if engine was out of vehicle, with engine still installed, shaft hits frame rail if trying to remove from front

    26. #24
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      I bought a subscription to alldata D.I.Y. for this vehicle. No way I would even attempt this without that information. I also have a copy of VADIS, but it is hard to navigate, and the info doesn't seem as indepth as alldata.

    27. #25

      Re: (ione2retire)

      Thanks, now I have a much better "picture" of the problem.

      One more question: With the intake manifold in place ... and with the engine idling ... could a person reach the rear bearing cover with a stethoscope probe?

      ... I don't want "My Volvo to save my life". I prefer to drive extra safely; avoid the accident, ....and save my Volvo's life.

    28. #26
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      I believe so, if you went in right by coolant Gooseneck. If bearing starts to fail, you won't need stethoscope. It is a godawful sound that will make your buttcheeks clench and you wallet lighter. Might also bring tears to your eyes as it did with me!

    29. #27

      Re: (ione2retire)

      Quote, originally posted by ione2retire »
      I believe so, if you went in right by coolant Gooseneck. If bearing starts to fail, you won't need stethoscope....

      If you could record the sound waveform when the bearing is new... occassional sampling thereafter might help avoid valve and piston tango. Perhaps just close listening might do it .... if one has enough control/conviction to pull the engine/vehicle out of service if the bearing doesn't sound good.

      Would be a good idea for anyone with a still-running V8 of any year .... to at least "have a listen" with some audible device ... even if just a length of hose!

      ... I don't want "My Volvo to save my life". I prefer to drive extra safely; avoid the accident, ....and save my Volvo's life.

    30. #28
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      Re: (12Ounce)

      Good question re: Stethiscope. I just bought one for that very purpose.

      I do have Volvo extended warranty. Have been thinking of going in to dealer with this proposal:

      Would you (as dealer) like to change bearing now (currently no failure), or would you rather wait until

      bearing fails at highway speed and causes extensive engine damage?

      2005 XC90 V8 Black Sapphire OSD: March 2005
      CB bearing fixed at 72,000 miles. Currently: 100,000 miles.

    31. #29
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      Re: (fruitbat)

      I have the same problem and I am working on resolving this with Volvo North America. I just found out that my engine number is 6600. Based on your letter, how do you think I should proceed?

    32. #30
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      Sorry to hear about your vehicle. Do You have an extended warranty?

    33. #31
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      Re: (Addy49er)

      More details would help.

      Are you original owner?

      Good maintenance records?

      Mileage?

      Damage assessment? (Just CB bearing noise or more?)

      2005 XC90 V8 Black Sapphire OSD: March 2005
      CB bearing fixed at 72,000 miles. Currently: 100,000 miles.

    34. #32
      Junior Member Bobalouie3's Avatar
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      Re: (ione2retire)

      We're not a part of this club & have a "post modification" engine, currently with 46,000 miles on it, we shall see...

      As I was checking out ione2retire's pics, I noticed that the CB shaft appears to be sealed with a cover & gasket. If so, how does the water get in there in the first place?

      Russ

      SOLD! 2005 XC90 V8 (hers from 2005 to 2017)
      2008 ///M Roadster (mine )

    35. #33

      Re: (Bobalouie3)

      Quote, originally posted by Bobalouie3 »
      ...We're not a part of this club & have a "post modification" engine, currently with 46,000 miles on it, we shall see...

      I would devise some way to "listen" to the rear bearing while the engine is idling ... surely the bearing noise will increase gradually and be detectable long before the bearing fails ... so a noise survey included in your maintenance program will most likely keep you out of trouble.

      .

      Quote, originally posted by Bobalouie3 »
      ....As I was checking out ione2retire's pics, I noticed that the CB shaft appears to be sealed with a cover & gasket. If so, how does the water get in there in the first place?

      .As I understand, the countershaft is indeed covered. The water apparently can "pool' rearward of the rear bearing, keeping some of the bearing and perhaps the shaft-end "underwater".
      Add to this that a running engine has a negative-pressure (vaccuum) in the crankcase ... could this negative pressure travel past the front sealed brg ... along the countershaft chamber ... thru the rear brg seals, "sucking" moisture into the rear bearing?? Of course, this is just "scenario" ... I have never laid eyes on this engine.
      ... I don't want "My Volvo to save my life". I prefer to drive extra safely; avoid the accident, ....and save my Volvo's life.

    36. #34
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      The CB shaft does have a cover. In fact, there are two covers, one over the CB shaft itself, and the other covers the bearing. the cover over the bearing acts as it"s journal. When my bearing went bad, the shaft wore on the top inside of this cover. There is however, no gasket. These metal covers sit right on the block, metal to metal.

    37. #35
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      Re: (Bobalouie3)

      "We're not a part of this club & have a "post modification" engine, currently with 46,000 miles on it, we shall see..."

      I'm glad your not a member of this "club." It's the worst club I've ever joined, and the membership fees are killer!!!


      Modified by ione2retire at 9:41 AM 1-19-2010


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