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    1. #246
      Junior Member TheStillMan's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tall-person View Post
      Hi mark-sf. I had saved this great article for a year since buying my 2018 xc60 and hoping it would work for this newer model.
      Now that I have looked into it, it appears that I don't have the depth to fit the enclosure under the cargo tray without cutting a hole in the cargo lid (even though there are no cross members in the lid to remove). Max depth seems to be 5". The alternative would be to thin the box, but even with those earthquake sws subs, there's probably not enough room to give. My only way would be cut the sub enclosure shape out of the tray and cover in the same material so you see the top of box flush with the cargo tray. Maybe make a replacement tray and keep the original for if i sell the car. Would you agree? I like the idea of keeping it out of the way and don't really want to have to go to a conventional sub box in the boot itself. Are those internal dimensions critical if I were to change the box size, so I keep to the same volumes?
      Thanks.
      Cheers,
      Raoul
      You can look up the specs and recommended/min/max enclosure sizes for a specific model sub on the manufacturer's website.
      2010 XC60 T6 Sapphire Black Metallic (TFT DIM retrofit, DynoMax muffler, Eibach lowering springs & Koni struts, HardRace adjustable rear toe arms)
      2004 Subaru Legacy Outback wagon 2.5 White Frost Pearl (Also mine) | 2011 Chevy Equinox LT1 AWD Olympic White (Hers)

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    3. #247
      Junior Member Hector_Volvo's Avatar
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      Wow I might consider this upgrade on my 2014 S60

    4. #248
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tall-person View Post
      Hi mark-sf. I had saved this great article for a year since buying my 2018 xc60 and hoping it would work for this newer model.
      Now that I have looked into it, it appears that I don't have the depth to fit the enclosure under the cargo tray without cutting a hole in the cargo lid (even though there are no cross members in the lid to remove). Max depth seems to be 5". The alternative would be to thin the box, but even with those earthquake sws subs, there's probably not enough room to give. My only way would be cut the sub enclosure shape out of the tray and cover in the same material so you see the top of box flush with the cargo tray. Maybe make a replacement tray and keep the original for if i sell the car. Would you agree? I like the idea of keeping it out of the way and don't really want to have to go to a conventional sub box in the boot itself. Are those internal dimensions critical if I were to change the box size, so I keep to the same volumes?
      Thanks.
      Cheers,
      Raoul
      Raoul, while the internal volume can be reduced a bit, that is not your problem which is height. The issue there is that the vent tube needs a stable hole which dictates the min height and the face to face woofers also set that height. Now my drawing specified a 4.5” hole but you can drop this to 4.25” as that is minimum spec for the inside flange. The outside flange is spec’s at 5.25” providing .5” all around of overlap. You can then reduce the height of the vertical pieces by .25” and change the woofer mounting panel to .5” MDF. This will result in the overall enclosure height dropping .25”. By rabbiting out the woofer hole and shaving the top and bottom of the flange, you may be able to get an addition .25” with the net being a 5.25” cabinet height. This would work with your cutout cargo floor approach, especially if you use the cargo mat as I do. However, I don’t see a way to get it to 5” without a re-design. Hope this helps.






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    6. #249
      Junior Member Tall-person's Avatar
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      Thanks Mark. I am curious about the internal volumes because if necessary I could rebuild my box up to 26" long and as much as 13" wide to replace lost volume if I need to make it thinner, based on the clearance to the air suspension reservoirs and the spare wheel polystyrene insert.
      If i aim for 5.5" thick, this would get me flush to the top of the cargo lid. That means getting rid of an inch thickness of the box, would that impact the sound production by the unit? Do I have anything to lose by making it that much bigger width wise and length or is it not going to make enough difference? From what you suggest, the port is the critical part of the box for sound? The difficulty will be thinning that panel, but still leaving some material for the vent pipe to fit in....Maybe I could pull the vent forward out of the box as long as the length stays the same or is the length inside the box important?
      Last edited by Tall-person; 02-13-2020 at 02:24 PM.

    7. #250
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tall-person View Post
      Thanks Mark. I am curious about the internal volumes because if necessary I could rebuild my box up to 26" long and as much as 13" wide to replace lost volume if I need to make it thinner, based on the clearance to the air suspension reservoirs and the spare wheel polystyrene insert.
      If i aim for 5.5" thick, this would get me flush to the top of the cargo lid. That means getting rid of an inch thickness of the box, would that impact the sound production by the unit? Do I have anything to lose by making it that much bigger width wise and length or is it not going to make enough difference? From what you suggest, the port is the critical part of the box for sound? The difficulty will be thinning that panel, but still leaving some material for the vent pipe to fit in....Maybe I could pull the vent forward out of the box as long as the length stays the same or is the length inside the box important?
      If you can make the box wider to recover the volume, you should. As far as needing to reduce an 1" to get to 5.5", that is not correct. The height as designed was only 5 7/8" and by following my instructions above you can easily reduce the 3/8" to get there. Finally, you could mount the flanged portion externally and remove material from the top and bottom of the flange; however, you will have two issues to resolve:

      1. The height of the bolted together woofers will limit the reduction you can get. I don't recall what the min is, but I don't believe you can get below 4" before adding the top and bottom which gets you back to at least 5".

      2. You will need to very thoroughly seal the hole around the 2" tube as it will be under pressure and subject to vibration (internal and external). Instead of depending on this, I would consider routing a 4 1/4" hole in the front to a depth of 1/4" in order to accept the rear of the flare sealing it that way. You could even reduce its skirt so that the flange is flush. This would have to be done once the top and bottom are installed. Yes, the length is important and should not be changed.
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    8. #251
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      Since there is renewed activity in this thread, I noticed that the pictures were no longer being made available on Photobucket. I have moved them to Imgur so that they are in full resolution once again. Enjoy!
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    9. #252
      Junior Member Tall-person's Avatar
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      Hey Mark. Thanks for that. You just pointed out something that I totally missed and that was as per your sketch when I looked close enough that the top and bottom were made from 1/2" MDF rather than all 3/4".....there's half an inch gained immediately! Did you find that thickness to be enough to prevent vibration?
      I'm going to go for it, with the cut out in a new mdf tray and add a 1/2" thickening piece at the front of the tray to make sure the tray is flush side to side with the sub box. I've got some questions to ask you if you don't mind?
      1. Being used to a free air ported 12" sub in my old cars, how does the bandpass 6" setup compare? You said one of your goals was to improve the sound performance down at 30hz. Your writeup suggests this was successful, but with the earthquake 6" units? Is it still some way off what might be expected of a larger sub?
      2. Would 8" subwoofers work in this box or would the volume need to be totally different? Price would be significantly more expensive though!
      3. If i were to increase the box area, do I just go for whatever area I can get as above or would the box then have to be tuned with a different vent pipe length?
      4. That particular RF amp you selected, has plugs for speaker connections....Did you ever have any problems with those compared to gold screw connectors?
      Many thanks!
      Raoul.
      Last edited by Tall-person; 02-15-2020 at 07:00 PM.

    10. #253
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      Raoul, please closely examine my 6 requirements as they dictate the design decisions. I did not believe the electrical system had enough overhead to support the type of high power amp required for alternative designs. I don’t know if this has changed in later models, but I know its the case through 2015 at least. Digital amps today are mode reliable, but it’s the current ratings I get concerned about as there are DC-DC converters within them to raise the voltage rails to support higher power.

      The bandpass sub design chosen increases the efficiency of a sub but trading off bandwidth. I am not a basshead so I was focused on removing low bass from the doors which bloated the bottom end and interfered with the midrange, while replacing it with qualitatively better bass to a reasonable cutoff (30Hz).

      You could implement a bandpass design with 8” woofers if they were shallow enough and had comparable electrical specs. At the time of my design, no other driver set met this. Shallow drivers are more available now; however, size is not the sole goal. Also by using two-bolted together I was able to effectively create a larger driver lowering its resonant frequency through its isobaric loading.

      I did meet all of my objectives, but they were mine and you may have your own.

      Changing to a larger driver generally would require a bigger box but once again size is only one parameter. You need to use the tools I specified or equivalent to determine the volume (not area) required for a bandpass. This also includes port cross section and length. It’s a system and tuning is required as this design is much more complex than a free-air one.

      Finally, as to the amplifier connections, I have had the system running for over 100K miles/8yrs and have had zero connection or reliability issues. BTW, screws can loosen due to vibration.

      In conclusion, my design is just one way to improve the bass in your Volvo. Feel free to experiment, but be prepared to research and iterate after first establishing your goals and requirements.



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    11. #254
      Junior Member Tall-person's Avatar
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      Mark with the 2018 model, the battery is in the trunk, so cable runs are not a problem!

    12. #255
      Junior Member Tall-person's Avatar
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      Hi Mark. Could you tell me the formula you used to derive the duct length, as I can get an increase of volume of 20% and still thin the box to 5.5" so that it sits below the cargo tray? Cheers!

    13. #256
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tall-person View Post
      Hi Mark. Could you tell me the formula you used to derive the duct length, as I can get an increase of volume of 20% and still thin the box to 5.5" so that it sits below the cargo tray? Cheers!
      This value is provided by the WinISD program once you enter in your box type, driver specs, # of drivers, Isobarik, etc. There are tutorials and videos on the use of this tool. Remember, this deign is a bandpass one which means that there are steep acoustical roll-offs on both sides of its frequency response. Creating more volume than I specified is not automatically a good thing. This program gives you and easy way to compare both volumes’ responses. A final note is that you need to keep at least 2” of open space (Diameter of vent tube) between it’s rear flare and the back cabinet wall.


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    14. #257
      Junior Member Tall-person's Avatar
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      Mark it looks like you need to be an expert in speaker enclosure design here, and you clearly are...! I plan to follow your recipe to the letter, same speakers, same amp, and if there is no value in increasing the volume I won't go there. I did work out that if I made my box 26"x13"x5.25" external dimensions, internal 24.5x11.5x4.5, the internal volume on each side would go up from 0.274cu ft to 0.329cu ft. I would have more space behind the duct also. If you still have your setup in winisd, would you consider running these dimensions and see if the extra volume is worthwhile please? I appreciate if you don't have the time or inclination also. I've sourced a 2" vent pipe, but it's actually 1 7/8" internally. Cheers. Raoul.

    15. #258
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      Raoul, If you are not that adventurous then you'll be fine if you maintain the same volume within a few percent. I don't have my old files anymore so can't run the sim for you. As for the vent pipe, the one I specified is still available and should be used as the flares are very important. The updated link is https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...complete-kit/; however, this kit is available from other online vendors as well. Maintain the overall 8.25" length.
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    16. #259
      Junior Member Tall-person's Avatar
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      Ok Mark, thanks anyway. I had found the vent tube at madisound as well as on eBay, but shipping to the UK is $20+ and so I am sourcing a similar looking pair of flares to make a similar unit from eBay.

    17. #260
      Junior Member Tall-person's Avatar
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      I downloaded WinISD and gave it a go. I managed to replicate your box parameters and curve and then changed to suit mine..after a bit of playing with the numbers I have managed to get a nice flat peak at 8db with smooth rolloff each end, hitting the -3db mark at about 30hz and 80hz, with a vent pipe of 8". Target frequency 49hz. I could get it down to 48 without compromising the raear duct space and with an equal volume split, but i wanted to aim for the 8" vent length. Speaker box dimensions as I noted earlier, with the speaker tray 1" offset to the sealed end...watch this space!

    18. #261
      Junior Member Tall-person's Avatar
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      Mark- the new box is almost finished and the sub woofers have arrived! I bought a vent pipe which turned out to be a slightly smaller diameter than 2", which then shortens the length required in the box, without affecting any other dimensions.
      Last edited by Tall-person; 02-27-2020 at 05:48 PM.

    19. #262
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      DIY Subwoofer Project - A Premium Journey to the Low End

      Quote Originally Posted by Tall-person View Post
      Mark- the new box is almost finished and the sub woofers have arrived! I bought a vent pipe which turned out to be a slightly smaller diameter than 2", which then shortens the length required in the box, without affecting any other dimensions.
      In examining the model for the smaller vent, you need to also look at the vent turbulence (velocity) which should be less than 20m/sec. I would expect it to go up with a smaller vent. I don’t remember, but I believe WinISD flags that condition.

      Regarding your PM to me and the driver spacing. As long as the surrounds are not touching, you should not have a problem. This is because the drivers are wired out of phase and the air between the cones acts as a spring. You should see them move together up and down without the cones touching. If the drivers are compressing each other due to having taken a bit too much material away, you can add gasket material to back them off. This may require you making a small depression in the top and bottom panel for the rear magnet bump but that will not compromise the enclosure.




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      Last edited by mark-sf; 02-27-2020 at 07:46 PM.
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    20. #263
      Junior Member Tall-person's Avatar
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      Thanks Mark - I'll check WinISD again, but I didn't see any warning about the velocity in the vent pipe. I'll dig a bit deeper and see if it shows up in any of the other graphs. Is the vent you stipulated actually 2" ID or is that OD? .

      Regarding the speaker cone clash, it's not a major deal, I should have checked before I routed the rebates. It all fitted together so well too! The centre of the cones do touch and depress slightly, so I'm pretty sure this would not be acceptable because although the speakers are wired out of phase in isobaric form, there would probably be some bounce would you not say? Also neither speaker ever sits at the rest position, it's always depressed, so maybe that would affect the driving of the speakers. Hypothetical stuff, so I'm going to cut a new centre piece and router the hole without the rebates and then rebate the side panels to rebate the speaker screws....i think it's easier at this point just to bite the bullet and take the box apart now rather than progress to the install stage and then find i have a vibration perhaps when it is operating.

      Raoul.

    21. #264
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      Yes, their surrounds should not touch as this will reduce the excursion. The reason turbulence is important to minimize is that it reduces the output. Obviously, in this design the vent is the only output.


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    22. #265
      Junior Member Tall-person's Avatar
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      With the vent i had on the way at 46mm ID, the velocity was up at 36m/s. Looks like I need to get up to 52mm vent diameter at 225mm long to limit the maximum air velocity to 30m/s and that's at 40Hz.

      Was the PSP vent 2" OD or ID?
      Last edited by Tall-person; 02-28-2020 at 07:09 PM.

    23. #266
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tall-person View Post
      With the vent i had on the way at 46mm ID, the velocity was up at 36m/s. Looks like I need to get up to 52mm vent diameter at 225mm long to limit the maximum air velocity to 30m/s and that's at 40Hz.

      Was the PSP vent 2" OD or ID?
      The PSP vent is 2” ID. The reason for the flares is to reduce turbulence as well.


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    24. #267
      Junior Member Tall-person's Avatar
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      Mark- I have a friend with a 3D printer and so I designed in CAD the vent with the flares to a tube ID of 53mm and 235mm long, which has enabled me to reduce the velocity to below 30. The printed vent is great and has enabled me to reduce the flare OD to 4" to fit inside my thinner box. Subs are installed and I am nearing the point of being able to test it!

    25. #268
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      Glad to hear about your progress. Please post some pics of your install as it’s different from mine and could help others.


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    26. #269
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      A few questions for those of you who have installed an amplifier in the trunk (trying to avoid starting a new thread).

      1) When tapping into the stock amplifier for a signal, did you have to remove the passenger seat? or were you able to get access to the wiring without doing so.
      2) Once you tapped said signal, are you just running the wire straight under the carpet, under the rear seat cushion and into the trunk?
      3) What are you using for a ground location in the trunk?

      My install is in a V60, but I imagine for the most part things are at least somewhat similar. Thanks.

    27. #270
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      Quote Originally Posted by abcdefghii View Post
      A few questions for those of you who have installed an amplifier in the trunk (trying to avoid starting a new thread).

      1) When tapping into the stock amplifier for a signal, did you have to remove the passenger seat? or were you able to get access to the wiring without doing so.
      2) Once you tapped said signal, are you just running the wire straight under the carpet, under the rear seat cushion and into the trunk?
      3) What are you using for a ground location in the trunk?

      My install is in a V60, but I imagine for the most part things are at least somewhat similar. Thanks.
      1. No, see post #7 at the start to see how you can simply get an adapter to avoid having to work in a cramp space.

      2. The blue wire in the picture referred above, goes behind the trim and the rear row into the cargo area.

      3. In the XC60 there were some tapped holes into the metal bottom steel relatively close to the amp that worked for me.


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    28. #271
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      Thanks, glad I won't have to remove the seat. The harness that you used, is it the "Connects2 CT10VL05 Parrot SOT T-Harness Adaptor ISO Wiring Lead VOLVO" ? Looks like it might be, but wanted to be certain.

    29. #272
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      I used the Autoleads variant https://www.carcommunications.co.uk/...arrot-sot-lead. Looking at the connectors and vehicle compatibility the one you found appears to be the same. You will only use part of it anyway - the green plugs.
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    30. #273
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      Great, thanks again. I already have that Connects2 harness, looking at your picture on post #7, did you cut off the other plugs? I can't see them in the picture, but they could be just hidden. Assuming that the factory green plug goes into the female green plug on the harness, the male green plug goes into the factory amp and then you just spliced into the solid white, white w/black stripe, solid gray and gray w/black stripe off the back of that female green plug (that the factory plug is connected to) for the signal to your aftermarket amp. I thought I read in an earlier post in this thread that you used 12V from the factory amp as well, was that the 12V switched ignition? Trying to determine what to use for a remote turn on wire, I see a power antenna (blue wire) that would typically be used, but I know in some vehicles the power antenna is only actually powered when the radio is on, not when using a CD for example. I don't believe my DSP has signal sensing on the high level inputs, so I will need switched 12V to turn it on / off with the ignition.

      Thanks for the help with this, as I am sure you found, not a whole lot of information out there with regards to aftermarket audio!!
      Last edited by abcdefghii; 03-10-2020 at 03:50 PM.

    31. #274
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      You are correct that I only used the male and female green plugs and spliced into the accessory harness versus the factory wire. Please note that I used the RF+, RF-, LF+ and LF- wires based upon the wiring diagram and pin numbers in my post above. I did not use the 12v for signal sensing as it is high all of the time and switched digitally on the load side. There is no switched 12v in that area. Others have reported finding one in the center console map light, but I instead went the audio signal sensing route. It has proven very reliable. You just need to ensure it is actually the audio signal and not a DC voltage offset that the amp is checking for to turn on.


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    32. #275
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      Thinking I will tap into a switched 12V in the center console, I am running a digital coax cable to the armrest for an Fiio player as well as the wire for the DSP controller, so may as well tap the switched 12V there while I have everything apart. I cannot seem to find any information that my DSP has audio signal sensing (which seems a little strange), so I will need switched 12V.

      Took a look under the passengers seat earlier today, you are right, using that harness there will make life a whole lot simpler., literally with the seat all the way forward and raised up access to the stock amp is incredibly straight forward. I can splice everything I need outside of the car and simply plug it in when ready. Looking at the female green plug, is it safe to remove pins 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 11, 12, 13 and 16? Assuming that the black ground wire would be pin 1, essentially removing the 8 speaker wires that go to the ISO connector and the red power wire that goes to the ISO connector. Basically leaving me with the 2 green plugs as a slimmed down harness.

    33. #276
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      Quote Originally Posted by abcdefghii View Post
      Took a look under the passengers seat earlier today, you are right, using that harness there will make life a whole lot simpler., literally with the seat all the way forward and raised up access to the stock amp is incredibly straight forward. I can splice everything I need outside of the car and simply plug it in when ready. Looking at the female green plug, is it safe to remove pins 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 11, 12, 13 and 16? Assuming that the black ground wire would be pin 1, essentially removing the 8 speaker wires that go to the ISO connector and the red power wire that goes to the ISO connector. Basically leaving me with the 2 green plugs as a slimmed down harness.
      First, to provide context for those reading this thread, you are not simply adding a sub as I did but are replacing the whole system after the front end which means you are only using the amp’s 5 channel outputs as your DSP+Amp input. Therefore, there is no need to “tap” of but simply make an output plug that you can run to your DSP.

      Now, to your pin question... Please carefully examine the wiring diagram in msg 7 above as the connector you are working with is C3 (extreme left side). You will need at least the 5 channel “+” pins and one “-“ pin. IMPORTANT: I do not know the topology of this amplifier and never investigated whether all of the channel “-“s are tied together in the amp. Why this matters is that frequently car amps use a bridge topology where both + and - are hot. This allows for lower voltages for the same amount of power. This is usually accounted for in an aftermarket amp that offers high level (spkr) inputs but may not in a DSP.

      In order to safely check, turn the car off, pull all the amp plugs and with an VOM check for continuity (0 ohms) between all of the “-“ combinations on the C3 connector. (You can also use your harness plug inserted and its associated wires.) If you have that, then check for continuity between one of the “-“‘s and car chassis (ground). Only if BOTH of these conditions are met is it safe to directly connect to your DSP (assuming it does not offer dual inputs).

      If one or both of the above conditions are not met, please post your results and measurements and I can advise further.


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    34. #277
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      Great information, I'll see if I can find time in the next couple days to check things out. I'm only planning to feed the DSP with a front left and front right full range signal, splitting the output in the DSP software to provide the eventual 7 outputs to my amplifiers. The DSP I'm using accepts a multitude of inputs including both RCA and speaker level. It's a MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 DL (quite the mouthful).

      I actually wondered if I could simply unplug the green factory connector and plug in the one green aftermarket connector with my outputs spliced to that, but believe I still need the factory connector in the loop simply to turn the factory amp on.

      Since this is deviating a good bit and I don't want to clutter up and cause confusion in your thread, if you like we can continue discussion in my thread that I'll link to here for anyone that stumbles across this.

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...io-Install-Log
      Last edited by abcdefghii; 03-12-2020 at 08:01 AM.

    35. #278
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      Actually I just checked and your planning on using a MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12. In this case use your DSP’s High Level Inputs with LF+(9), LF-(1), RF+(11), and FR-(3) with four separate wires. Power is delivered through a separate connector and it is switched digitally via signals in the optical cable.


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      2011.5 XC60 3.2L Flamenco Red/Anthracite Black, Premium, Multimedia, Convenience, BLIS, Xenon + Custom Subwoofer

    36. #279
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      Dec 2019
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      287
      Quote Originally Posted by mark-sf View Post
      Actually I just checked and your planning on using a MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12. In this case use your DSP’s High Level Inputs with LF+(9), LF-(1), RF+(11), and FR-(3) with four separate wires. Power is delivered through a separate connector and it is switched digitally via signals in the optical cable.
      Excellent, that confirms my suspicion that I believe I can just unplug the factory green connector, plug in the one green connector from the aftermarket harness and use the LF and RF into the DSP.

      Edit: Ran a quick test earlier, just with the LF and RF wires twisted to a set of speakers I had laying around, factory green connector removed, aftermarket connector plugged in and everything works. Trying to depin the connector to just have those 4 wires left and will then cover that in techflex on the way to the trunk.
      Last edited by abcdefghii; 03-12-2020 at 04:05 PM.

    37. #280
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      Dec 2019
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      287
      Well, I'm confused.... so a couple days ago I plugged in the aftermarket green plug, nothing connected to it other than a speaker on the left front outputs. Initially it did nothing, but then I realized I did not have the plug pushed in all the way (essentially, the nav screen comes on but is completely unresponsive to any input). Anyway, music started playing as expected.

      Since I only needed 4 wires coming off the green plug, I removed a number of the other wires today, not all of them, the pins are a pain to remove. Anyway, I removed about half and then went to try again to make sure everything still worked. But, now it is back to not working, navigation screen comes on instead of USB and no buttons on the console are responsive, no music playing. I double checked the plug was pushed all the way in, which it was, but still nothing. Plugging the factory harness back in and it works fine. I am not sure why it now no longer works, previously the only difference being that there were additional wires, but not connected to anything.

      Plugged some of the removed pins back in so I had a match to every pin on the factory harness, still not working. Weird. Debating just peeling back some insulation on the factory harness and cutting the 4 wires I need there (although I think I will also have to disconnect rear speakers in the door if doing this since the amp will still be trying to send a signal those going this route).
      Last edited by abcdefghii; 03-13-2020 at 04:07 PM.

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