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    1. #176
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      Quote Originally Posted by Foosy View Post
      With all that in mind I still wanted better lows. So my next step was to adjust the equalizer. I started experimenting again with all the settings, and I made some interesting discoveries:
      1. The sound at the rear speakers is significantly lower than the sound at the front speakers. Even full volume is not so loud. This is surprising for a system that touts 650Watts. I am starting to think that this is probably 650 Watts PMPO and not 650 Watts RMS.
      2. The source of any remaining distortion and muddiness is (subjectively) present ~90% in the rear speakers and ~10% in the front speakers. In other words, most distortion is in the rear. I experimented by putting the 60Hz and 200Hz equalizer settings at +10 and switching the fader between front and back. Again this was very surprising especially since most of the energy is located at the front speakers.
      3. My personal best settings in terms of the lows was to set 60Hz at +5 and 200Hz at -10. There must be some resonance that gets tuned out by reducing the 200Hz setting. (I am not calling it a band, because as mark showed previously, this is not a true equalizer).
      Foosy, I am quite surprised by this as this has not been my experience admittedly with an older PS model. What mode(s) were you running with (ex: Driver, Front, All), Dolby (On/Off), Dynamic (Low, Med, High) etc.). If I get a chance this weekend I will perform some near field measurements to verify. There may still be an issue with your system as setting Bass to +5 even with a 200Hz cut should not provide good resonance-free bass in my experieince.
      2011.5 XC60 3.2L Flamenco Red/Anthracite Black, Premium, Multimedia, Convenience, BLIS, Xenon + Custom Subwoofer

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    3. #177
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      Quote Originally Posted by mark-sf View Post
      Foosy, I am quite surprised by this as this has not been my experience admittedly with an older PS model. What mode(s) were you running with (ex: Driver, Front, All), Dolby (On/Off), Dynamic (Low, Med, High) etc.). If I get a chance this weekend I will perform some near field measurements to verify. There may still be an issue with your system as setting Bass to +5 even with a 200Hz cut should not provide good resonance-free bass in my experieince.
      Hi Mark,
      I was running in mode: All; Dolby On. I don't have a "Dynamic" setting.
      Here are the settings I have:









      Last edited by Foosy; 12-07-2016 at 12:42 AM.

    4. #178
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      Quote Originally Posted by tunedxc60 View Post
      Hooking it up now. The amp has connectors for parallel dual speakers so two 2 ohm speakers in parallel is still 2 ohms. Should be good.

      Edit: You're right, I miscalculated. I had the numbers backward. It still works but I'm sure the amp isn't designed to run like that. I'll just talked to Crutchfield and will return the XD600, and get the HD750 instead. The HD750 is a little overkill but the Slash 600 and XD1000 amps are too long to fit.
      Right, 2 x 2 ohms speakers in parallel are 1 ohm. You do not want to run an amplifier at less than the impedance it was designed for because at best it will clip, at worst it will short. The HD750 is a much better choice, but remember it is stable only down to 1.5 ohm, so you also do not want your speakers in parallel. The good thing is that this amplifier provides constant power of 750Watts for any impedance up to 4 ohms, so put your speakers in series for a total of 4 ohms such that each one will get 375 Watts, which is what you are looking for.

      Quote Originally Posted by tunedxc60 View Post
      Subs fit great. Two of them together are 30" wide, 11.5" wide, 5.25" deep. I'll Dremel out the factory black tray to finish off the install this weekend.
      This XD600 amp (cover is off) will be returned and replaced with the JL Audio HD750. I remeasured the area for the amp, should work just fine.
      I think you mean that you will dremel the cargo cover, right? Didn't you have a hole for your previous one speaker system?

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    6. #179
      Junior Member tunedxc60's Avatar
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      DIY Subwoofer Project - A Premium Journey to the Low End

      Quote Originally Posted by Foosy View Post
      Right, 2 x 2 ohms speakers in parallel are 1 ohm. You do not want to run an amplifier at less than the impedance it was designed for because at best it will clip, at worst it will short. The HD750 is a much better choice, but remember it is stable only down to 1.5 ohm, so you also do not want your speakers in parallel. The good thing is that this amplifier provides constant power of 750Watts for any impedance up to 4 ohms, so put your speakers in series for a total of 4 ohms such that each one will get 375 Watts, which is what you are looking for.


      I think you mean that you will dremel the cargo cover, right? Didn't you have a hole for your previous one speaker system?
      Yes, exactly I would run them at 4 ohms in series. Thanks for pointing that out. That would have been an issue to keep using the XD600. I'm sure the HD750 will be nice but the one downside is that the adjustment controls are on the side and not top so might be a little difficult with the space to have to be able to easily make adjustments.

      I didn't have a whole in the cargo floor, the speakers fire upward into the cargo floor. The hole I had was for the insert under the cargo floor. It's really just cosmetic, and I would just need to enlarge it to accommodate two speakers vs the one.

      Here's a pic with the one speaker/amp combo with the cutout:






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    7. #180
      Junior Member robtr8's Avatar
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      In my experience, this should sound like (Where's the poo emoji?).
      I have questions:
      Just how freakin' loud are you playing the system?
      What kind of music are you listening to?


      Quote Originally Posted by Foosy View Post
      Hi Mark,
      I was running in mode: All; Dolby On. I don't have a "Dynamic" setting.
      Here are the settings I have:









      2006 XC90 V8, AVH-3300NEX, PDX-F4(X2), M12, GB10, GB25, AR6K, GB12D4(X2), custom exhaust, Verde A/S Plus 107V/Ronal RT, IPD bars.
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    8. #181
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      Quote Originally Posted by robtr8 View Post
      In my experience, this should sound like (Where's the poo emoji?).
      I have questions:
      Just how freakin' loud are you playing the system?
      What kind of music are you listening to?
      Well,
      I guess to each their own taste...
      Also, I was showing the system settings. What does that have anything to do with listening at "freaking loud" volumes?

      I don't see why you need to troll here. If you don't have anything positive to contribute, just bug out of this forum.
      Last edited by Foosy; 12-07-2016 at 09:11 AM.

    9. #182
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      Quote Originally Posted by tunedxc60 View Post
      Yes, exactly I would run them at 4 ohms in series. Thanks for pointing that out. That would have been an issue to keep using the XD600. I'm sure the HD750 will be nice but the one downside is that the adjustment controls are on the side and not top so might be a little difficult with the space to have to be able to easily make adjustments.

      I didn't have a whole in the cargo floor, the speakers fire upward into the cargo floor. The hole I had was for the insert under the cargo floor. It's really just cosmetic, and I would just need to enlarge it to accommodate two speakers vs the one.

      Here's a pic with the one speaker/amp combo with the cutout:






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      This is interesting - not doing a hole, I mean.
      Firing at the cargo floor adds acoustic loading, which lowers the subs bandwidth compared to the identical driver/box firing in a larger cavity. It also impacts cone excursion. I would think that the cargo floor could resonate quite significantly because it is not securely attached. You are effectively creating a single reflex bandpass configuration, albeit one that is not tuned as the air escaping the under-cargo-area is not from a calculated port size. This would definitely increase the SPL and give you the feel of "shaking the car and mirrors" which I think you were looking for.

      Another way to look at this would be as an isobaric configuration where the cargo floor acts as a passive radiator. That would be the representation if air would not escape the under-cargo-area.

      In reality you have something in between the two configurations. This will definitely give you more bass, but not the most accurate bass. Either way, you should be aware that the additional loading on the drivers will reduce their lifespan due to the increased forces that the cones are subjected to.

      By the way, the reason that the original Volvo subwoofer, or Mark's design do work in a same environment is that they are ported designs, and the port is firing towards the cavity behind the rear seats.
      Last edited by Foosy; 12-07-2016 at 01:51 PM.

    10. #183
      Junior Member tunedxc60's Avatar
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      The design seems to work just fine especially if the sub box is in the 5" range to allow for 2" or more of clearance between the speaker grill and bottom of the cargo floor. I tested the difference between the floor removed vs. on and there is no significant difference. I think Bhom is doing the same thing with an 8" alpine woofer and box but with a side port.


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    11. #184
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      Tons of extensive info and tricks. Unfortunately, this is way out of my league. Looks like I might just have to pony up the cash and order the OEM one, if they're still available.

      In the meantime, I'm off to dynamat! That I can do.

    12. #185
      Junior Member robtr8's Avatar
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      Well, I guess every conversation I've had with my audio buddies has been a troll then, we always start with "dude, that sounds like *ss". Whether it does or not. Maybe that doesn't translate well on the internets.
      What I'm adding to the conversation is I'm calling BS on your processor settings. There's no mid-bass or front soundstaging, as far as I can see. I'll try replicating the settings this weekend when I get a minute.
      Only thing I can figure, by inspection, is that you're pushing the system too hard with some of that modern electronica house music crap the kids are playing these days. I tuned my wife's car to play Tool (which is kinda funny because all she listens to is NPR) and my settings are about polar opposite to yours. I really had to push the system hard and the first thing to sound hurt was the door cards flapping in the wind.

      Quote Originally Posted by Foosy View Post
      Well,
      I guess to each their own taste...
      Also, I was showing the system settings. What does that have anything to do with listening at "freaking loud" volumes?

      I don't see why you need to troll here. If you don't have anything positive to contribute, just bug out of this forum.
      2006 XC90 V8, AVH-3300NEX, PDX-F4(X2), M12, GB10, GB25, AR6K, GB12D4(X2), custom exhaust, Verde A/S Plus 107V/Ronal RT, IPD bars.
      2008 328xi, AVH-X7800BT, GM-D8604 & D9605, MT-230, GB40, XE 200, 12" Primo, Musicar NW box, S-04/Ventoso's, Sottozero 3/185's.
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    13. #186
      Junior Member robtr8's Avatar
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      If you're using the term "Dynamat" like "Kleenex" meaning I'm off to sound deaden my system, I'm with you. If you actually mean Dynamat, there's much better technics out there:

      http://store.secondskinaudio.com/

      http://www.mobilesolutions-usa.com/s...oundskins.html

      Quote Originally Posted by kalpauly View Post
      Tons of extensive info and tricks. Unfortunately, this is way out of my league. Looks like I might just have to pony up the cash and order the OEM one, if they're still available.

      In the meantime, I'm off to dynamat! That I can do.
      2006 XC90 V8, AVH-3300NEX, PDX-F4(X2), M12, GB10, GB25, AR6K, GB12D4(X2), custom exhaust, Verde A/S Plus 107V/Ronal RT, IPD bars.
      2008 328xi, AVH-X7800BT, GM-D8604 & D9605, MT-230, GB40, XE 200, 12" Primo, Musicar NW box, S-04/Ventoso's, Sottozero 3/185's.
      2011 XC60 T6 RD, DWS/20" Cratus, IPD rear. 1980 TR8​, MBT-RX, Overdrive Plus, GM-D9605, GS62, 8" L7T(X2), NT05 on Revolution Wheels.

    14. #187
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      Quote Originally Posted by tunedxc60 View Post
      The design seems to work just fine especially if the sub box is in the 5" range to allow for 2" or more of clearance between the speaker grill and bottom of the cargo floor. I tested the difference between the floor removed vs. on and there is no significant difference. I think Bhom is doing the same thing with an 8" alpine woofer and box but with a side port.


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      Yes I am doing the same thing expect I have a ported sub. I also noticed no difference in sound with or without the floor in place.
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    15. #188
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      Quote Originally Posted by bhom920 View Post
      Yes I am doing the same thing expect I have a ported sub. I also noticed no difference in sound with or without the floor in place.
      You would not notice a difference because you are using a ported design and the energy is not fully directed at the under-cargo-floor. This design as previously explained would work OK.
      Last edited by Foosy; 12-08-2016 at 09:56 PM.

    16. #189
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      Quote Originally Posted by robtr8 View Post
      Well, I guess every conversation I've had with my audio buddies has been a troll then, we always start with "dude, that sounds like *ss". Whether it does or not. Maybe that doesn't translate well on the internets.
      What I'm adding to the conversation is I'm calling BS on your processor settings. There's no mid-bass or front soundstaging, as far as I can see. I'll try replicating the settings this weekend when I get a minute.
      Only thing I can figure, by inspection, is that you're pushing the system too hard with some of that modern electronica house music crap the kids are playing these days. I tuned my wife's car to play Tool (which is kinda funny because all she listens to is NPR) and my settings are about polar opposite to yours. I really had to push the system hard and the first thing to sound hurt was the door cards flapping in the wind.
      If you are not trolling, then as you said, your language does not translate well...
      Further, you state that your contribution is "calling BS on my processor settings" ??? You call that helpful, or adding?? I guess you did not read Mark's posts from the beginning of this thread. THAT is contribution! Your stuff, oh well - I don't want to go down the same path as you, so I will avoid writing what I think about it....

      But I digress, I will allow you the benefit of the doubt and explain certain things....
      The reason I reduce the 200Hz frequency is because it causes a distortion in my car. I obviously want that frequency, which is why I explained I am getting a subwoofer with a wide range, so it can hit that frequency and beyond. As to the increase of the 60Hz band that you see in my equalizer settings, I did that audibly, but it makes perfect sense given that this is not a true equalizer and as per the graphs reported by Mark earlier, reducing the 200Hz brings down the 60Hz frequency as well. So by reducing the 200Hz and bringing up the 60Hz , the effect is a narrower filter for the offending frequency and keeping an overall flatter frequency response.

      As to your comment about you deducing there is no "front soundstaging". You obviously can not get that by looking at the settings I posted, but if you would have read my observations, you would have realized I wrote that the rear channels are significantly lower in volume than the front. That means that there IS a front soundstage. Further, reducing the center speaker's volume as per my settings, INCREASES the spatial stereo imaging,

      The problem with what you write is that you are making a lot of assumptions. First you assumed that I was listening to music at "freaking loud levels". Now you are assuming I don't have a front soundstage and that I am listening to "modern electronica house music crap". Your assumptions do not reflect good on you, and while a certain style of music may not be to your liking, it does not make it crap. As I wrote previously, each one has their own taste, and whatever that taste is, it is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

    17. #190
      Junior Member robtr8's Avatar
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      I guess I'll just have to replicate your settings and see what I get. Easily enough done.

      I understand what you're trying to do with the wideband subwoofer. The door/driver assembly isn't producing the desired response so you're trying to bump it up with the subwoofer. Same thing I'm trying to do with the moose's system. I was also going to change out the existing Premium 6" drivers and do new HDPE baffles https://youtu.be/S7WKCFHGwRY and GS60's but the weather turned to sh*t and work got busy. Just going to have to wait. In the meantime I have a GB12D4 on order and I'm going to alter the box's slot.

      There are two issues that I see. Both are related to the sub driver placement.

      #1) Putting the sub in the center of the cabin is not optimal, to say the least. No corner loading or trunk loading. In my open air applications I found other solutions. With the ski boat I built a PWK box and put an L5 Solobaric at my feet under the helm. With the TR8 I built baffles into the floor pan and mounted two shallow 10's under the seats. In both cases I pushed up the frequencies being played by the subs. I'm trying to do that with the moose as well, I figured if I did the M12 and a PWK box I could overcome the placement limitations. I'm not a happy camper yet so I'm switching to a sub that can handle more power and has a larger surface area.

      Which leads me to problem #2) These higher hz are localizable, no? At what point do you start to mess with the soundstage, given that the driver is behind you?
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    18. #191
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      Thanks for the links!

    19. #192
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      I don't think you need to worry about soundstage with low frequencies. The location of the subwoofer is practically irrelevant as our brain can not localize low frequencies.
      If already talking about soundstage, one of my problems with the Volvo is that the soundstage feels to be around my knees. This should be surprising because the tweeters are located up high next to the side mirrors, and these frequencies are the most localize-able. But if you look at volvo's design, the midrange speaker which is located in the door, is coupled with a high-pass filter only, as opposed to a bandpass one. Unfortunately it reproduces the high frequencies as well, and It must be a more efficient driver than the tweeter up on the glass, since it pulls the soundstage 'below the dashboard'.

      Whoever the engineer at HK that did this design, did a really poor job. The problem is that brand names sell but the quality is not there. Some improvements I was thinking about was using better crossovers instead of replacing the drivers. Lots of work that can be done, but is it really worth it?

    20. #193
      Junior Member robtr8's Avatar
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      Couldn't agree with you more on the mid driver placement.
      My solution was to use a bit more center speaker in the XC60 than I would normally and why I did this to the moose:

      2006 XC90 V8, AVH-3300NEX, PDX-F4(X2), M12, GB10, GB25, AR6K, GB12D4(X2), custom exhaust, Verde A/S Plus 107V/Ronal RT, IPD bars.
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      2011 XC60 T6 RD, DWS/20" Cratus, IPD rear. 1980 TR8​, MBT-RX, Overdrive Plus, GM-D9605, GS62, 8" L7T(X2), NT05 on Revolution Wheels.

    21. #194
      Junior Member robtr8's Avatar
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      Audiofrog finally arrived! I know this is the XC60 forum, sorry if it seems like a threadjack. A little cross pollination can be good.

      2006 XC90 V8, AVH-3300NEX, PDX-F4(X2), M12, GB10, GB25, AR6K, GB12D4(X2), custom exhaust, Verde A/S Plus 107V/Ronal RT, IPD bars.
      2008 328xi, AVH-X7800BT, GM-D8604 & D9605, MT-230, GB40, XE 200, 12" Primo, Musicar NW box, S-04/Ventoso's, Sottozero 3/185's.
      2011 XC60 T6 RD, DWS/20" Cratus, IPD rear. 1980 TR8​, MBT-RX, Overdrive Plus, GM-D9605, GS62, 8" L7T(X2), NT05 on Revolution Wheels.

    22. #195
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      Hi guys

      I am currently getting thru the installation of a subwoofer in my 2013 S60 with regular speakers. (I think it's called High performance with amp under passenger seat)

      I had a look at the power feed going to the cargo fuse box and it seems pretty small ?! You didn't had any trouble with that like melting the wire feeding the fuse box ?


      Thank you

      Gab

    23. #196
      Junior Member tunedxc60's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by gabwebsite View Post
      Hi guys

      I am currently getting thru the installation of a subwoofer in my 2013 S60 with regular speakers. (I think it's called High performance with amp under passenger seat)

      I had a look at the power feed going to the cargo fuse box and it seems pretty small ?! You didn't had any trouble with that like melting the wire feeding the fuse box ?


      Thank you

      Gab
      I ran 4 gauge power wire all the way along the passenger side through a hole in the front area of the passenger footwell into the engine bay to the battery with a 60 amp fuse.


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      Quote Originally Posted by gabwebsite View Post
      Hi guys

      I am currently getting thru the installation of a subwoofer in my 2013 S60 with regular speakers. (I think it's called High performance with amp under passenger seat)

      I had a look at the power feed going to the cargo fuse box and it seems pretty small ?! You didn't had any trouble with that like melting the wire feeding the fuse box ?


      Thank you

      Gab
      Gab, in my write up, one of my criteria for selecting the type of amp I chose was that its current requirement was within the fuse rating of the 12v circuit I was connecting to in the rear. This is important and I have had no problems since installation. Otherwise you will need to run an appropriate gauge dedicated wire to the battery as others have done.
      2011.5 XC60 3.2L Flamenco Red/Anthracite Black, Premium, Multimedia, Convenience, BLIS, Xenon + Custom Subwoofer

    25. #198
      Junior Member gabwebsite's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by mark-sf View Post
      Gab, in my write up, one of my criteria for selecting the type of amp I chose was that its current requirement was within the fuse rating of the 12v circuit I was connecting to in the rear. This is important and I have had no problems since installation. Otherwise you will need to run an appropriate gauge dedicated wire to the battery as others have done.
      Thanks for the reply Mark. I did most of the installation today. I did run a 8 gauge wire to the battery because the amp I have ''need'' a 60A fuse.

      It went pretty well , I just have to find a circuit to feed the remote. I tought I could use the sirius power so it would turn on with the system but after some testing I realised it's not controlled by the ignition.

      Any ideas other than the module ?

    26. #199
      Junior Member tunedxc60's Avatar
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      Fuse 22 is what I used in the fuse panel under the glove box. It's one of only 2 switched 12 volt sources I could find.


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    27. #200
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      Quote Originally Posted by tunedxc60 View Post
      Fuse 22 is what I used in the fuse panel under the glove box. It's one of only 2 switched 12 volt sources I could find.


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      Oh I wished there was a wire somewhere in the trunk controlled by ignition so I wouldn't have to remove all the trims again.

      Thank you for the reply

    28. #201
      Junior Member tunedxc60's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by gabwebsite View Post
      Oh I wished there was a wire somewhere in the trunk controlled by ignition so I wouldn't have to remove all the trims again.

      Thank you for the reply
      Shouldn't be too bad for a small wire. The hardest part of that job for me was the vertical trim piece on the right rear seat near the seat belt. That thing was a pain.



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    29. #202
      Junior Member gabwebsite's Avatar
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      Yeah exactly ! that's the part I wish I can avoid. I was so scared to break something !!


    30. #203
      Junior Member tunedxc60's Avatar
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      That picture there is the column beteeen front and back seat. There should be enough room to take a metal clothes hanger and tape on a small wire and push it through without removing too much.


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    31. #204
      Junior Member robtr8's Avatar
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      Quick tip, use one of those long 4' zip ties that the HVAC guys have as a fish tape. Cut the bulky locking bit off, obviously. Easier to tape to, stiff enough to push through tight spots but flexible enough to follow contours.
      Last edited by robtr8; 01-19-2017 at 09:32 PM.
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    32. #205
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      Quote Originally Posted by gabwebsite View Post
      Oh I wished there was a wire somewhere in the trunk controlled by ignition so I wouldn't have to remove all the trims again.

      Thank you for the reply
      I am afraid you are out of luck I scoured the electrical diagrams before I went the signal sensing route. I will say that since you only need a small gauge wire you should be able to tuck it up under the trim without removing it. That is what I did with part of my signal cable run.


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    33. #206
      Junior Member gabwebsite's Avatar
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      Great , it's fairly easy to find . The wire coming off the fuse #22 is Green-Orange and I confirmed that it's controlled by the ignition.



      Unfortunately I broke one tooth of the B-pillar and one on the glove box It's not a good idea to move thoses plastics when it's cold outside ( 0 C )


      Thank you all for your help

    34. #207
      Junior Member tunedxc60's Avatar
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      Congrats on getting it. I assume by you identifying the wire color that you cut it and spliced in your remote wire? If you haven't done so already you may want to consider using a mini add a fuse. It was quick and painless and didn't require cutting the factory wires - which I try to avoid.

      Where are you mounting your amp? Any pictures ? I was able to squeeze mine in the right rear but it was a tight fit and had to relocate the ground to the drivers side running the ground wire under the hatch strike plate plastic cover.


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    35. #208
      Junior Member gabwebsite's Avatar
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      I do have couple pictures but not of what I did today.

      Here's the route I chose for the wiring













      I bring the speaker wire wrapped in a protective layer and got them to the amp under the seat by this junction in the floot mat




      I did the connection with quick splice connectors , to avoir cutting the factory harness





      I didn't take any picture of the final result but it's very similar to this picture , minus the visible wiring




      The amp is screwed on the back of the enclosure.



      It's not a very high end sub but all I needed is a little more punch in the lower audio spectrum.

      The amp is almost at the minimum , with low pass filter around 55 Hz. I'm still playing with the settings.

      Quote Originally Posted by tunedxc60 View Post
      Congrats on getting it. I assume by you identifying the wire color that you cut it and spliced in your remote wire? If you haven't done so already you may want to consider using a mini add a fuse. It was quick and painless and didn't require cutting the factory wires - which I try to avoid.

      Where are you mounting your amp? Any pictures ? I was able to squeeze mine in the right rear but it was a tight fit and had to relocate the ground to the drivers side running the ground wire under the hatch strike plate plastic cover.


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      I used the same type of quick splice for the remote signal and I wrapped the conductor in a protective layer too but I havn't put any extra fuse
      Last edited by gabwebsite; 01-20-2017 at 07:05 PM.

    36. #209
      Junior Member tunedxc60's Avatar
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      Looks good. If you ever have to get wire between the floor trim near the door and under the dash you can simply pull the carpet back. Not need to remove any dash trim really.



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    37. #210
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      Great thread! Would prefer a vented enclosure under the rear subfloor. Anyone have an idea if this box would fit? TIA

      https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00IF...pOL&ref=plSrch

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