MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear
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    1. #1
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      MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear

      Sorry, GT'ers, this is for the MT folks. (Judging from one of the other polls, we out number you anyway). Does anyone know if the sales numbers actually reflect the poll results on this site? I am speculating that the people who post here are also the ones how are more apt to be R and stick shift performance minded.

      Anyway, what do you do at a red traffic light? Do you shift into neutral and release the clutch, or leave the car in gear with the clutch engaged?


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    3. #2
      Junior Member Racerbil's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (deptdc)

      In Sweden, the yellow light comes on with the red at the end of the red cycle so you know when to shift back into gear.

    4. #3
      Junior Member blinky's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (deptdc)

      I can't vote one way or the other; Depends too much on the situation. Perhaps a lot of that depends on how long I expect the light to last. And if it's a hill and I'm doing that emergency-brake thing (can't heel-toe well with my size 14's) then I'll usually let my clutch foot rest too. Other reasons too.

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    6. #4
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (Racerbil)

      If I know that a particular light is usually short, I leave it in gear. And though we don't have the yellow warning here in the states (France has it as well), I watch for the opposite lights for some heads-up.
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    7. #5
      Junior Member Ji's Avatar
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      Depends, but for the most part I keep it in gear until someone comes to a complete stop behind me; Then I'll take it out of gear. If I'm at a long light already in N with no one behind me, I'll put it in gear if someone approaches from behind until he/she comes to a complete stop.

      It's a motorcycle backround thing. Saved my a$$ a couple of times, so why change just because I'm in a cage.


    8. #6
      Global Moderator GrecianVolvo's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (deptdc)

      NEVER leave it in gear no matter how short the light is. Unless I am about to blow someone's doors off... Then, in gear and revving it up just enough (about 1,800 rpm)

      Yannis

      2001 Volvo V70 T5 M SR, Classic Red/Graphite Lthr, TME Stage II ECU, 3" Downpipe w/ Cat-back exhaust from MTE, Volvo Roadholding & Lowering Kit w/ Nivomats, 17" PEGASUS, Rear Spoiler, Dolby Surround Sound
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    9. #7
      Senior Member ncoig's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (GrecianVolvo)

      Quote, originally posted by GrecianVolvo »
      NEVER leave it in gear no matter how short the light is. Unless I am about to blow someone's doors off... Then, in gear and revving it up just enough (about 1,800 rpm)

      Is there a reason for this? Does the clutch not fully disengage or something? ... or is that your personal preference?

      -N


    10. #8

      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (deptdc)

      I don't get the survey question, but regarding the percentage of MTs vs. GTs...

      "A six-speed manual gearbox is Volvo's first and is built in-house. Volvo also will offer a five-speed automatic, but the automaker expects that 65 percent of American buyers will choose stick shifts."

      from: http://www.antonnews.com/drive....html

      But this article is from May 2003. I'm sure they could have adjusted for demand.


    11. #9
      Member PhilUp's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (InspectorGadget)

      I asked the same question when I was learning and basically I was told that if you leave it in gear too long with the clutch in there's a possibility of throwing out the bearing or something. I also do it because I'm lazy and don't want to be pressing on the clutch for several minutes. Sometimes I even pull the handbrake and just sit there.

    12. #10

      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (ncoig)

      Quote, originally posted by ncoig »

      Is there a reason for this?

      Yes. Premature wear on the entire clutch assembly, especially the springs and pressure plate.


    13. #11
      Senior Member Johann's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (HPTJoe)

      Quote, originally posted by HPTJoe »

      Yes. Premature wear on the entire clutch assembly, especially the springs and pressure plate.

      The clutch itself will wear first..

      Always in gear, always ready to go unless a traffic light is known for long waiting times..

      '17 Volvo S60 Polestar '15 XC60T5 Polestarised

    14. #12
      Junior Member Ji's Avatar
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      A little clutch wear is better then getting rear ended.
      Keeping it in gear has saved me numerous times from drivers not paying attention and screaching to a stop within a couple of feet of the car I was behind (After I had already moved out of the way).

      What ever way you do it, always watch your six. Ji


    15. #13
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      Re: (Ji)

      Reasons I would never sit with clutch in...

      1 - throw-out bearing wear
      2 - if you got the rear end tap and your foot jumps off pedal, you're off in forward motion (I been rear-ended twice while stopped at a light so know this has real potential)
      3 - stretch on clutch cable (if it exists)...

      If you're worried about that lack of control, emergency maneuver, sit with foot on clutch pedal, ready to depress

      This is want I was taught as a kid (50's) when MT was more the norm amongst cars.


    16. #14
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (GrecianVolvo)

      I thought in California or some states, it is required to have the car in gear all the time once you take it on the road.

      I guess for me, it really depends on the situation like others said.


    17. #15
      Moderator JimLill's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (Kai)

      Quote, originally posted by Kai »
      I thought in California or some states, it is required to have the car in gear all the time once you take it on the road.

      In NYS, when car is moving... as in no coasting...


    18. #16
      Senior Member JRL's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (JimLill)

      Personally, for me, it depends on the specific stop and the situation.
      JRL
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    19. #17
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (JRL)

      Anyone that knows how to drive a manual knows you NEVER sit at a light with it engaged because you can kiss that throw-out bearing good bye.

    20. #18

      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (JRL)

      Always put in nuetral. It severely shortens youe clutch life when you have it in gear at lights. Whether you realize it or not, you're are feathering the clutch even if its just a little. Plus you tend to rock the car getting ansy and all, so one acceleration from a green light for me is like 5 for those of you who are wearing down clutch at each light. Add that up!!

    21. #19
      Moderator JimLill's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (michael r)

      Does UPS enforce any method on the brown trucks?

    22. #20
      Junior Member Ji's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (KTP Dave)

      Quote, originally posted by KTP Dave »
      Anyone that knows how to drive a manual knows you NEVER sit at a light with it engaged because you can kiss that throw-out bearing good bye.

      OK, but FWIW, I've never owned a automatic, and have never had to change any parts related to driving a manual in over 80,000 in any cars I've owned.

      I have on the other hand come close to getting rear ended by non-paying attention, cell phone talking, newspaper reading drivers, so I guess it all comes down to what works for you. Ji


    23. #21
      Senior Member ncoig's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (Ji)

      Quote, originally posted by Ji »

      OK, but FWIW, I've never owned a automatic, and have never had to change any parts related to driving a manual in over 80,000 in any cars I've owned.

      I have on the other hand come close to getting rear ended by non-paying attention, cell phone talking, newspaper reading drivers, so I guess it all comes down to what works for you. Ji

      I tend to agree - I've logged a few hundred thousand miles, and only changed a clutch ONCE, and that's because I was in there changing rear oil seals anyway. Granted, this clutch is likely more prone to early wear than those of yore, but I guess like Johann said, if it'll be a while, I release it 'cause I'm lazy. Otherwise, I'm like a guy in front of the tree... reat' to go!

      -N


    24. #22
      Moderator JimLill's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (Ji)

      Quote, originally posted by Ji »
      I have on the other hand come close to getting rear ended by non-paying attention, cell phone talking, newspaper reading drivers, so I guess it all comes down to what works for you.

      I've been rear-ended twice... my wife got hit twice 2. Pretty thrilling to watch the DIN radio fly at you out of the dash!!

      If all four cases, it was at a light with someone in front of us. No place to drive to... keep foot on brake and pray. For me it was twice over the course of 36 years of driving. She had it happen twice in 2 years, same car, same corner/light. No one ever hurt, thankfully...

      As you say (as did the Ink Spots).... To each his own...


    25. #23

      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (JimLill)

      Quote, originally posted by JimLill »
      Does UPS enforce any method on the brown trucks?

      Proper UPS procedure at stale red lights is neutral with hand brake on with foot resting on brake pedal. Then engage when light turns green.


    26. #24
      Senior Member Cain's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (michael r)

      Quote, originally posted by michael r »
      Always put in nuetral. It severely shortens youe clutch life when you have it in gear at lights. Whether you realize it or not, you're are feathering the clutch even if its just a little. Plus you tend to rock the car getting ansy and all, so one acceleration from a green light for me is like 5 for those of you who are wearing down clutch at each light. Add that up!!

      I always keep it in gear. I've owned several MT's during the 20 years I've had a driving license. Never heard of any problems nor did I have any.


    27. #25
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      I always sit with the clutch in and ready to go. I've been rear ended twice and the cars just stalled.

      Also, I got 165,000, with the original clutch and bearings, in a Prelude.

      Just sold an F-150 with original everything that had 108,000 and still had life on it.

      The clutch will also most likely wear out before the bearing, this used to be a problem with older sticks, but people are used to the way they are shown.


    28. #26
      Global Moderator GrecianVolvo's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (michael r)

      Quote, originally posted by michael r »
      Anyone that knows how to drive a manual knows you NEVER sit at a light with it engaged because you can kiss that throw-out bearing good bye.

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      Quote, originally posted by KTP Dave »
      Always put in nuetral. It severely shortens youe clutch life when you have it in gear at lights. Whether you realize it or not, you're are feathering the clutch even if its just a little. Plus you tend to rock the car getting ansy and all, so one acceleration from a green light for me is like 5 for those of you who are wearing down clutch at each light. Add that up!!

      Absolutely! It only takes less than half a second to shift into 1st as long as you are alert.

      Yannis

      2001 Volvo V70 T5 M SR, Classic Red/Graphite Lthr, TME Stage II ECU, 3" Downpipe w/ Cat-back exhaust from MTE, Volvo Roadholding & Lowering Kit w/ Nivomats, 17" PEGASUS, Rear Spoiler, Dolby Surround Sound
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    29. #27
      Senior Member ncoig's Avatar
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      Re: (poohbear)

      Quote, originally posted by poohbear »
      I always sit with the clutch in and ready to go. I've been rear ended twice and the cars just stalled.

      Which seems a benefit over those who would have the GTs, as they would roll forward anyway!

      -N


    30. #28
      Junior Member Racerbil's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (GrecianVolvo)

      Quote, originally posted by GrecianVolvo »
      Absolutely! It only takes less than half a second to shift into 1st as long as you are alert.

      But it only takes a New Yorker 1/4 second to honk (we're that good!).

    31. #29
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (Racerbil)

      What the "experts" say...

      http://www.shifters.ca/tips.asp


    32. #30
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (JimLill)

      Actually, I always put the car in neutral when I stop. Just thought the poll might be fun.

      However, I noted the experts perfer using the brakes rather than down shifting. JimLill's link is not the first time I read that. That will take some getting used to. Especially, as I usually try to time the light so I don't have to stop at all and thus am able to resume without needing to stop, launch from first, etc. That strategy is supposed to reduce wear and tear on the car as well.

      Perhaps, a new poll is order?

      DEPTDC


    33. #31
      Moderator JimLill's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (deptdc)

      Quote, originally posted by deptdc »
      However, I noted the experts prefer using the brakes rather than down shifting.

      I learned to drive a stick when I first learned to "officially" drive in 1964. I learned from a professional instructor who emphasized a few items that should be done a certain way and he pointed out that those items are often done wrong by the masses (back in those days). They included:

      1 - when at a stoplight, put it in Neutral, clutch out
      2 - when stopping, use brakes and don't downshift if you're coming to a complete stop (brakes are cheaper than syncros etc.)
      3 - don't ride the clutch
      4 - when going from neutral/clutch-out, go into a syncro gear before attempting 1st or reverse (moot point on the R as it's syncro, even in reverse)


    34. #32

      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (JimLill)

      Quote, originally posted by JimLill »

      2 - when stopping, use brakes and don't downshift if you're coming to a complete stop (brakes are cheaper than syncros etc.)

      AND I can change the pads (brake) myself in the driveway in an afternoon!


    35. #33
      Junior Member Racerbil's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (cschmelz)

      It may be marginally more economical to use the brakes, but to me some engine braking is just part of the experience of driving a stick. It would be strange to come down a long downhill and not downshift. You should be able to get through a reasonable car ownership period without clutch or transmission repairs even if you downshift. And brakes are not cheap, at least for those of us who can't do it ourselves. But the economy of it is just a rationalization. The fact is, you develop a style of driving. I actually sit in neutral with my foot off the brake, when it's level at a light (various intersections around here, or half the state of Indiana), and then hit the brake twice when someone approaches from the rear. Attracts their attention more than a steady brake light.

    36. #34
      Global Moderator GrecianVolvo's Avatar
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (Racerbil)

      Quote, originally posted by Racerbil »
      It may be marginally more economical to use the brakes, but to me some engine braking is just part of the experience of driving a stick. It would be strange to come down a long downhill and not downshift.

      Absolutely!!!

      Quote »
      You should be able to get through a reasonable car ownership period without clutch or transmission repairs even if you downshift.

      Couldn't agree more!

      Yannis

      2001 Volvo V70 T5 M SR, Classic Red/Graphite Lthr, TME Stage II ECU, 3" Downpipe w/ Cat-back exhaust from MTE, Volvo Roadholding & Lowering Kit w/ Nivomats, 17" PEGASUS, Rear Spoiler, Dolby Surround Sound
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    37. #35
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      Re: MT'ers, neutral at stop lights and no clutch or clutch in, in gear (GrecianVolvo)

      GrecianVolvo,

      Actually the note I saw was in R and T (I think, might have been C & D). Anyway, their concern wasn't for the tranny and clutch, but for the engine itself. They were saying using the engine compression to slow the car adds additional engine wear.

      Having said that, I still downshift most of the time to slow the car and will wait on flat surfaces with no one behind me (or coming) without my foot on the brake. We do have lots of flat land here also; afterall, New Jersey is the Garden State.

      Deptdc


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