Angle gear rebuild & research about the reason for failure...
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    1. #1

      Angle gear rebuild & research about the reason for failure...

      Hi all!

      I just recently had my angle gear fail on my 04 S60R. Just before the summer I took my AG off to reseal it cause it was leaking oil pretty badly. Now when I did that I noticed that not a lot of oil came out of the AG. But the bearings felt okay and also the pinion and ring gear teeth looked normal. I grinded the edge of the cover on the AG as the TJ recommends it. Here's the link: http://www.volvoxc.com/0/resources/h...%20Leakage.pdf

      Also that time I replaced my collar sleeve. Old one was in a good shape, but I figured that why the hell not since the AG is off anyways. AG resealed and filled up with oil and it was all good. Until last week. It's winter so one might drive a lot sideways and the AG got some beating. Then it started to make this very small grinding noise. I could barely hear it since the IPD Oval catback is quite loud. But lifting up the car verified that the sound was coming from the AG. I reckon that by the time I did the reasealing procedure in the beginning of summer it was already broken. Now with new oil and the correct amount of it, it might've been okay for a while but eventually it was going to fail. I work at a Volvo dealership and a new AG for me would've cost around 1200EUR. It is cheaper than buying behind the counter as a customer, but I wasn't gonna spend this amount of money on something I could fix and possibly make better.

      Here comes the interesting part...
      I started sourcing the correct bearings for the AG. Also bought all gaskets and lubricants etc. Total cost of new parts was around 150EUR. I do all my work on my car myself so there aren't any labor costs.
      This thread helped alot, but I did some things differently based on my own experience with driveline rebuilding etc. https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthr...the-angle-gear

      I also used more durable bearings on the pinion gear shaft. The ring gear bearings are the same. I also wrote down all the part numbers for the bearings, but I don't have them with me at the moment. I'll just edit the post in a few days and add the list here.

      Bearings:
      2x NACHI H-E32010J
      1x SKF 32006 X/Q
      1x TIMKEN 32007 XM

      So some pictures as well:


      new bearings


      A lot of failed angle gears. Since I couldn't just take out the AG on my car, rebuild it and install because I need the car daily, I used two failed angle gears and made one out of them. Those that have worked or built differentials and such, know that the pinion and ring gear are made in pair. The tolerances between the teeth are as good as possible and using a pinion gear from one and the ring gear from another AG might cause a whining noise or something. I was aware of that, but I managed to adjust the backlash and preloads so that there is no whining, grinding or any noise. One of the angle gears had a stripped input shaft, so I used the pinion gear from that one. The other had a broken pinion gear due to a failed pinion shaft bearing. I got the ring gear with perfect input shaft from that one. I just used the case that was the least dirtiest.


      new bearings on the ring gear shaft/input shaft


      new bearings on the pinion gear shaft and all four new bearing races






      grinded edge of the cover


      special tool to set the preload on the ring gear bearings




      and done. topped up with oil and ready to be installed






      removing the failed AG


      destroyed pinion shaft bearing. there was a lot of metal pieces and dust.




      and almost done...


      Now why did it fail and why do they fail in general?
      This is a question that has been asked and answered many times. Maybe somebody has already come up with this idea, but I haven't seen it yet. And I've searched the world wide web...
      The angle gear is no different than a conventional differential for example. Except missing the satellites and their frame... The durability depends on lubrication. Of course incorrect bearing preload and gear backlash can and will affect things, but for this discussion let's assume that these are correctly adjusted and within tolerances.
      Now lubrication. Angle gear uses a method of lubrication called splash lubrication.



      This means that as the car moves forward (I should point out that full lubrication works only driving forward) the ring gear as it spins, picks up oil between the teeth of the gear. This gear used to lubricate the surfaces between the point where the pinion and ring gear meet as well as to literally splash the oil up and around. Usually it is designed that the oil that is being picked up by the ring gear will splash against the pinion gear bearing and lubricate it.

      The problem with the angle gear on our R's (and other Volvos) is the lack of lubrication on the pinion shaft bearings. Of course there is the stripped collar sleeve problem which can also destroy the input shaft of the AG. But if we would install let's say upgraded collar from PDV or use the welding method, then we would eliminate the spline stripping issue. After that it's only the angle gear that needs to stand up to the power.
      This is possible if a little customization is made.

      Here's a picture of a half the case of the AG. It is sideways but try to picture it around. The part that it is standing on (facing the floor) goes to the transmission side and the left part goes to the driveshaft.


      The brown line is a rough estimation of the oil level as the angle gear sits on the car. This is just for illustration. Now as the ring gear spins (clockwise in this picture if driving forward), it picks up oil from the bottom. It is then splashed around and against the wall of the AG. The red arrow indicates the part and hole where oil should enter a channel and move towards the rearmost pinion bearing. There is also this metal piece held by two torx screws and acts as a guide. As the oil is being splashed from the bottom it should hit that guide and go into the hole. Here is the problem. If your imagination is good enough you'll notice that once it goes into the hole it must go up and then return from the other hole marked with a green arrow. We live in a world where you CAN'T fight gravity. Therefore the pinion shaft bearings never get enough oil. Based on my experience working as a Volvo tech and based on other peoples experience, I can say that IF the input shaft of the AG doesn't fail due to the failed collar sleeve, then it has always been a problem with the pinion bearings. Never has anybody witnessed failure of the ring gear bearings. I reckon if somebody has then it was a case of destroyed pinion bearings which lead to excessive pinion shaft play and therefore damaged the ring gear and its bearings.

      Now how to solve this problem? I have put it all on paper and made drawings and made a plan so to say. The AG that I took out with the failed bearing (video above)
      will be taken apart. Of course I will clean out all the metal filings and replace all the bearings etc. But I will also do something that I haven't seen being done before.
      I've already ordered a Weldon high temp. resistant oil pump, an oil cooler that will be mounted somewhere under the car (don't know where yet), armored oil lines and fittings and a filter. I will also drill a hole in the bottom of the AG and install a drainhole so I can easily replace the oil and filter whenever I feel the need.
      I will also drill holes in the AG for the oil input and output bungs. Input would be directly at the pinion gear bearings or between the bearings to be exact. Output would be somewhere at the bottom. Of course the oil quantity is going to be higher since there is piping, cooler, pump, filter and finally the AG itself, but that's not an issue. I'm convinced that the angle gear could sustain more power and be more durable if the lubrication was sorted out. I mean what's bad about cooled oil that is filtered and being pumped at the place that is seeing little to no oil at all. The splash lubrication method would still be working since I'll try to measure out the amount of oil that even when the pump is running, the angle gear still has the correct amount of oil at the bottom.

      I'll update this thread as the progress goes with text and pictures, BUT even when I'm finished with the AG and all of it's new components I will not install it until the rebuilt AG that is under my car at the moment fails. There's no need until then. But knowing the design flaws and history of the Volvo AG, I know it will fail eventually...

      Thanks for reading everybody. Hope this turns into a constructive discussion.
      I'm sorry if my English is not good here and there...


      Enjoy your day all!

      Gustav
      Last edited by contrast; 01-28-2014 at 10:49 AM.

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    3. #2
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      Very cool and detailed explanation Gustav... I think this has a lot of potential! Now, please keep us updated on the details. I'm sure there are many more that just me who would like to improve the angle gear especially as we keep increasing power levels.

      You're absolutely right about the angle gear design. This is honestly the first time I've seen pictures of this level of detail and it looks much like a typical ring/pinion from a normal rear axle in a mustang... which I have personally installed so I'm fairly familiar with them. If the gears are hard enough and backlash/preload is set properly like you explained, then fundamentally these should be able to handle plenty of power when properly lubricated.
      Last edited by ElementR; 01-25-2014 at 11:49 AM.
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    4. #3
      Member o2k's Avatar
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      Nice job gustav!

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    6. #4
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      Thankyou for the great pictures. Too bad Volvo did not add a drain plug. Keep us posted with your progress and pictures.

    7. #5
      Junior Member pixelate's Avatar
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      Awesome! Thank you for this! I just realized I can source the nachi bearings for next to nothing if I had the correct P/Ns, please update when you can.

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    8. #6
      Member EricTheRed's Avatar
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      Here is how dougy made his drain plug

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthr...ear-drain-plug
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    9. #7
      I updated the first post with bearing part numbers.

    10. #8
      Member n23's Avatar
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      Lots of great information. Keep us updated.

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      I think it funny that people think a upgraded collar is going to solve all our problems. My collar as well as some others was fine and the splines on the AG itself were stripped. So if this can happen with butter soft stock collar it definitely will happen with a harder one
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    12. #10
      Quote Originally Posted by bewbzout View Post
      I think it funny that people think a upgraded collar is going to solve all our problems. My collar as well as some others was fine and the splines on the AG itself were stripped. So if this can happen with butter soft stock collar it definitely will happen with a harder one
      I'm not expert, but as far as I know the so called upgraded collar has much tighter tolerances and fits better. There's some play at the angle gear side between the splines and that together with lack of lubrication on the splines and moisture etc causes problems. Then there is welding.

      My point is whatever method people choose to reinforce the collar gear, there is still a problem with the angle gear itself. I'm just trying to make things better for myself and for the community

    13. #11
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      Do you also do your own alignment? I saw the yellow line on the floor

    14. #12
      I do my own everything on the car, but what yellow line? We have a special lift with cameras and mirrors for that...

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      Whoops i guess it's just the grout for the concrete :P

      I know alot of people use a 90 degree line to do toe alignments and wasn't sure if that's what the line was for. Obviously alignment tools are much more precise.

    16. #14
      Member vLGrok's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by contrast View Post
      I'm not expert, but as far as I know the so called upgraded collar has much tighter tolerances and fits better. There's some play at the angle gear side between the splines and that together with lack of lubrication on the splines and moisture etc causes problems. Then there is welding.

      My point is whatever method people choose to reinforce the collar gear, there is still a problem with the angle gear itself. I'm just trying to make things better for myself and for the community
      Agree, I think the upgraded collar is beneficial not only from the hardness but also the fit... any slop in this joint will only lead to problems. Together with this angle gear oiling improvement, I think we will finally have a decent chance at a robust setup.
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    18. #16
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      So, I was looking at what the OP said about oil needing to defy gravity. That makes a lot of sense. Is there any possibility that we could modify the oil passage. Like fill the old lower entry and drill a new passage up higher above the old one? Maybe drill and weld in an aluminum tube to start the flow higher? I don't know if the splash is big enough to make it work, but I would think that it could still oil it well. Another thought I had about angle gears is the design. It seems like they could have used a modified dropout differential with a spool and no connecting splines. That's purely just for thought. Anyone know the gear ratio in the angle gear?
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    19. #17
      Quote Originally Posted by titan joe View Post
      So, I was looking at what the OP said about oil needing to defy gravity. That makes a lot of sense. Is there any possibility that we could modify the oil passage. Like fill the old lower entry and drill a new passage up higher above the old one? Maybe drill and weld in an aluminum tube to start the flow higher? I don't know if the splash is big enough to make it work, but I would think that it could still oil it well. Another thought I had about angle gears is the design. It seems like they could have used a modified dropout differential with a spool and no connecting splines. That's purely just for thought. Anyone know the gear ratio in the angle gear?
      I dont think drilling a hole higher would help since the oil has to go even further upwards and the make even sharper turn and find its way to the rearmost bearing. Also if you look at the picture right above the video, you'll notice that there isn't much room next to the pinion gear. As well as you still need that little metal piece to guide the oil. I think the angles would be way too extreme. I don't know much about fluid dynamics, but common sense tells me that it won't work in this physical world...

      As for the gear ratio, I can count the teeth on the gears when I have spare time...

    20. #18
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      Is there a problem with just filling the unit with more oil? If the unit was filled something like half way up, the bearings would always be sitting in oil.
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      You would have to fill it substantially. Would more then likely pour out the seals let alone the drag.
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    22. #20
      I think it would start to leak. Splash lubrication wouldn't work the way its supposed to. Also there is a possibility of building oil foam and with that there is cooling properties lost.

    23. #21
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      R's have 1:2.62 AG's. The 97-2000 850/S70/V70/XC70 (Canada had 97 850 AWD wagons) are 1:3.31.
      1:2.62 is the same for all 2001 later to present AFAIK. The specs for angle gears were dropped from data books in 2006. As of then it was still a 1:2.62. I doubt they have had any reason to change the ratios. The latest version AG's were out then and were 1:2.62
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    24. #22
      Quote Originally Posted by cattlecar View Post
      R's have 1:2.62 AG's. The 97-2000 850/S70/V70/XC70 (Canada had 97 850 AWD wagons) are 1:3.31.
      1:2.62 is the same for all 2001 later to present AFAIK. The specs for angle gears were dropped from data books in 2006. As of then it was still a 1:2.62. I doubt they have had any reason to change the ratios. The latest version AG's were out then and were 1:2.62
      Do you have any extra info on Volvo angle gears? Some documentation perhaps?

    25. #23
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      Hi,

      Those metal clips that are screwed with the two torx are like you saying, made to force the oil in to the tow pinjong bearings.
      This was only a temporary solution thou to some quality problems with the housing casting.

      If you have any questions maybe i can try to answer them, if I can remember. Have worked at the factory (2001-2010) that made those AG here in Sweden.

      There have been lots of models and changes over the years, at the beginning the ring gear was put together with tow comp Locktite.
      After some quality issues the started to MAG welded the ring gear, and also induction hardened the splines on all models. (Only diesel before)

      The alu “cover” on the housing was only locktited on the early models, it was replaced with silicon so the cover and housing could flex and not crack like the locktite models tended to do under stress.

      The oil volume we were filling the AG with if i remember right was, 0,65 - 0,75 and 0,90 depending witch model of AG you have.

      //Best regard

    26. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by contrast View Post
      Do you have any extra info on Volvo angle gears? Some documentation perhaps?
      Sorry, I just now saw this. Volvo never did any overhaul instructions on AG's. The repairs are limited to seals. I have overhauled several and made notes for a course book I wrote but can't repost here as it is the property of the company I wrote it for.

      The bearings are readily available. The carrier bearings are used as wheel bearings on older 3/4 ton domestic pickups and larger sedans. The pinion bearings are pinion bearings for other smaller RWD cars of different makes.
      The pinion is set to run with ring gear by a shim between bearing and head of pinion. The bearing preload is set by turning pinion nut until rolling load is achieved regardless of torque on the pinion nut. 10 - 12 inch pounds on new bearings, 8 - 10 for used. Turn the pinion a few revs after each tighten increment before measuring. Backlash of ring gear to pinion is set by a shim in the case behind the inner carrier bearing. I have never touched the shims in either location on any unit I have worked on. You will re-use the gears as they are not available and there should be no need to change the shims.
      The carrier bearing preload is set by the toothed outer bearing retainer. It is best that it is marked before assembly and when reassembled with RTV it is a good idea to turn it 1/2 notch in. The RTV is thicker and turning in makes up for the dimension. I verified this by assembling a unit with no pinion and finding the good re-used bearings with the marks aligned gave me no rolling load on carrier so that meant no preload on bearings. 1/2 notch in (probably could have been a full notch) got a little rolling load.
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    27. #25
      Quote Originally Posted by cattlecar View Post
      Sorry, I just now saw this. Volvo never did any overhaul instructions on AG's. The repairs are limited to seals. I have overhauled several and made notes for a course book I wrote but can't repost here as it is the property of the company I wrote it for.

      The bearings are readily available. The carrier bearings are used as wheel bearings on older 3/4 ton domestic pickups and larger sedans. The pinion bearings are pinion bearings for other smaller RWD cars of different makes.
      The pinion is set to run with ring gear by a shim between bearing and head of pinion. The bearing preload is set by turning pinion nut until rolling load is achieved regardless of torque on the pinion nut. 10 - 12 inch pounds on new bearings, 8 - 10 for used. Turn the pinion a few revs after each tighten increment before measuring. Backlash of ring gear to pinion is set by a shim in the case behind the inner carrier bearing. I have never touched the shims in either location on any unit I have worked on. You will re-use the gears as they are not available and there should be no need to change the shims.
      The carrier bearing preload is set by the toothed outer bearing retainer. It is best that it is marked before assembly and when reassembled with RTV it is a good idea to turn it 1/2 notch in. The RTV is thicker and turning in makes up for the dimension. I verified this by assembling a unit with no pinion and finding the good re-used bearings with the marks aligned gave me no rolling load on carrier so that meant no preload on bearings. 1/2 notch in (probably could have been a full notch) got a little rolling load.
      I know about the shims and preloads etc. Thanks! I didn't set the preload with a torque wrench. I just used feel and common sense. And the fact that I rebuilt my angle gear out of two different AG's and I've driven around 2000km so far, including heavy full throttle launches and whatnot, I can safely say so far so good. No whining or grinding noises. But it will eventually fail. Due to the reasons posted in the beginning of the thread...
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      Where did you buy the special tool (shown above) for the bearing/seal cap? Thanks

    29. #27
      I didnt buy it. Had one that was used for Fords. It fit perfectly.
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      Quote Originally Posted by vLGrok View Post
      Nominated for post of the month.
      Post of the year (2014 and 2015).

      I have some noise coming from my driveline that I just noticed when I changed tires. I'm going to start with replacing driveline fluids and go from there. Hopefully that solves it. If not, I'll see if I can find someone who can do this procedure.
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    31. #29
      Junior Member CREE's Avatar
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      Any progress with your modified AG and forced oil feed?

    32. #30
      Almost done. Still need to figure out where to mount the cooler + some more minir things. I dont have a lift at home so if i have time, i sometimes try different things at work. Recently became a parent so time 24hours a dayisnt enough for me.

      Besides, the rebuilt angle gear is still going strong. I've launched mine on tarmac with antilag about ten times and knock on wood... Still no problems.
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    33. #31
      Junior Member CREE's Avatar
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      Congrats on the new family member!

      Thanks for the update, also. I still like the idea of the cooler, strainer/filter and oil feed to the bearings.

      When I rebuild mine, I'll install a temperature probe to see what's going on in there and under what conditions.

      Cheers!

    34. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by cattlecar View Post
      Sorry, I just now saw this. Volvo never did any overhaul instructions on AG's. The repairs are limited to seals. I have overhauled several and made notes for a course book I wrote but can't repost here as it is the property of the company I wrote it for.

      The bearings are readily available. The carrier bearings are used as wheel bearings on older 3/4 ton domestic pickups and larger sedans. The pinion bearings are pinion bearings for other smaller RWD cars of different makes.
      The pinion is set to run with ring gear by a shim between bearing and head of pinion. The bearing preload is set by turning pinion nut until rolling load is achieved regardless of torque on the pinion nut. 10 - 12 inch pounds on new bearings, 8 - 10 for used. Turn the pinion a few revs after each tighten increment before measuring. Backlash of ring gear to pinion is set by a shim in the case behind the inner carrier bearing. I have never touched the shims in either location on any unit I have worked on. You will re-use the gears as they are not available and there should be no need to change the shims.
      The carrier bearing preload is set by the toothed outer bearing retainer. It is best that it is marked before assembly and when reassembled with RTV it is a good idea to turn it 1/2 notch in. The RTV is thicker and turning in makes up for the dimension. I verified this by assembling a unit with no pinion and finding the good re-used bearings with the marks aligned gave me no rolling load on carrier so that meant no preload on bearings. 1/2 notch in (probably could have been a full notch) got a little rolling load.
      am I reading this correctly that you rebuild angle gears? I have a person here in Tulsa needing either his rebuilt, or swap his core for a rebuilt one.
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    35. #33
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      Can anyone confirm that the new angle gears maintain the same ratio as the s60r?
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    36. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by contrast View Post
      Almost done. Still need to figure out where to mount the cooler + some more minir things. I dont have a lift at home so if i have time, i sometimes try different things at work. Recently became a parent so time 24hours a dayisnt enough for me.

      Besides, the rebuilt angle gear is still going strong. I've launched mine on tarmac with antilag about ten times and knock on wood... Still no problems.
      do you have any update to show on the project?

    37. #35
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      1,060
      Quote Originally Posted by contrast View Post
      I know about the shims and preloads etc. Thanks! I didn't set the preload with a torque wrench. I just used feel and common sense. And the fact that I rebuilt my angle gear out of two different AG's and I've driven around 2000km so far, including heavy full throttle launches and whatnot, I can safely say so far so good. No whining or grinding noises. But it will eventually fail. Due to the reasons posted in the beginning of the thread...
      Hi,
      @Contrast, this is a very impressive post. Wow, thank you for sharing all this info AND updating it over time!

      I'm in the middle of a nasty angle gear job for my '02 V70XC see thread https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...Gear-Resealing . In my case the notched retaining ring was completely fused to the AG enclosure. I ended up getting a piece of it off only to expose threads that are really no longer usable. To make matters worse I have totally destroyed the retaining ring (most definitely unusable!!!).

      So I now have two options: (1) go out and find a 2001-02 AG and replace like for like (and reseal if necessary - I have the parts ready) or (2) get a 2003+ AG and replace companion flange to make AG compatible with my 01/02 prop shaft.

      I'm not terribly confident that I'll be able to find a 01/02 in decent shape at my local "you-pick" yard so I'm wondering whether it makes more sense to look for an 03+ and replace the companion flange and seal.

      I've got access to VIDA but the instructions seem over-complicated for setting pre-load on bearing behind companion flange and behind notched retaining ring. Have you got any tips that you could share on how to achieve correct pre-load for those two bearings?

      Thank you!
      2010 V70 3.2 125,000miles
      2002 V70XC, 175,000 miles
      2004 S60 2.5T, 160,000 miles

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