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    1. #36
      Member Bmo Pete's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by 02s80 View Post
      I was replying to the comment that no one would buy a box. A lot of people buy boxy vehicles of all classes. The outgoing v70/xc70 wasn't really a box but had almost no rake at the D pillar. It was luxurious sharing its interior with the s80 and was a big seller for Volvo for a long time. I was not comparing the quality of the Forester to the Volvo. I still see the Forester as a family car. The Impreza is more an economy car.

      In my opinion, cars don't have a lot of different shapes to them. They follow the trends of the day. The s90 has a similar side profile to the Altima and Ford Fusion and to some degree Audi A7 yet the A7 will be more expensive than the s90 and the Altima/Fusion are in the family car class. Different classes of cars, similar shapes. That's why the panel details are important to distinguish them.
      Understood, and I completely agree with your comment.
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    3. #37
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      All of the recent concepts had this lovely shoulder kink midway, then blending into a sharper edged slightly exaggerated hip (reminiscent of the P1800). I don't understand why this very important/key design element was ruled-out? It was an obvious nod to Volvo heritage and was well received by all who evaluated the concepts. It is not something so drastic that it could not be transferred to the four door production cars.

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    4. #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bmo Pete View Post
      All of the recent concepts had this lovely shoulder kink midway, then blending into a sharper edged slightly exaggerated hip (reminiscent of the P1800). I don't understand why this very important/key design element was ruled-out? It was an obvious nod to Volvo heritage and was well received by all who evaluated the concepts. It is not something so drastic that it could not be transferred to the four door production cars.

      Agreed but you never know how the design decision was made. Maybe the 90 design has been finalized before the concept car and panel data has been sent to molding manufacturer. They don't want to spend resource on modifying the panel shape and order another set of molding.

      What we can do is to request them to adopt the concept hip lines in 60 series and beyond.

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    6. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by goVolvo View Post
      Agreed but you never know how the design decision was made. Maybe the 90 design has been finalized before the concept car and panel data has been sent to molding manufacturer. They don't want to spend resource on modifying the panel shape and order another set of molding.

      What we can do is to request them to adopt the concept hip lines in 60 series and beyond.
      Yes, understood this to be the case for the XC90, though assumed the S/V90's had enough lead time, an additional year, to incorporate updates (assuming the molds weren't ready). Well, like you suggest, perhaps the 60 series will once again be the most avant garde of the Volvo's. The scale of the concept vehicles does seem to fit in this smaller segment from what I can tell.
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    7. #40
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      I would prefer the hip line being on one single car only: The C60. The hip line stands exclusively for the P1800 and I wouldn't like to see it watered down to the whole Volvo line-up. Someone invented it. Just as someone else invented the tall backlights and now the Thor's hammer lights. In the same way, new design elements can be invented today. Leave the P1800 as it is!

    8. #41
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mjoelnir View Post
      I would prefer the hip line being on one single car only: The C60. The hip line stands exclusively for the P1800 and I wouldn't like to see it watered down to the whole Volvo line-up. Someone invented it. Just as someone else invented the tall backlights and now the Thor's hammer lights. In the same way, new design elements can be invented today. Leave the P1800 as it is!
      I think resurrecting styling cues from the P1800 was a good thing, though I'd debate whether the hip line was exclusive to the P1800. I could probably find dozens of autos from the 50's and 60's that have a similar or more exaggerated rear fender. Wasn't Volvo really just joining the trend at the time? If resurrecting or paying homage to classic or iconic design elements help differentiate and ultimately help sales against the competition, then why not? All manufacturers have done this. You can incorporate these elements by varying degrees across the line-up and not dilute the element nor disrespect the original application and its designer.



      Here are some auto's at the time that had similar mid to rear quarter "flair":



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    9. #42
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      People will pay a lot for a box if it's got RANGE ROVER or ESCALADE written on it.

    10. #43
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      Quote Originally Posted by JOHN T SHEA View Post
      People will pay a lot for a box if it's got RANGE ROVER or ESCALADE written on it.
      ...even if they are powered by a 4 cylinder?
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    11. #44
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bmo Pete View Post
      ...even if they are powered by a 4 cylinder?
      Certainly, if part of a PHEV system developing 407 hp, which is more than any Escalade or Range Rover apart from the supercharged V8 models. Incidentally Land Rover announced in 2013 that they will eventually offer a four cylinder engine in the Range Rover.

    12. #45
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      Raw horsepower figures aren't everything to a discerning high luxury vehicle customer. The power delivery sensation also matters. Range Rover may offer a 4 cylinder option, like in the LR's, but it certainly won't be the only or premium option.


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    13. #46
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      Yesterday I saw some new pictures on the internet. (Carnewschina.com again).






















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      silver color looks more bright and eye catching in car model. Black in real car is as common though. Still months away to see the real thing..

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    15. #48
      Junior Member T Schroeder's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bmo Pete View Post
      All of the recent concepts had this lovely shoulder kink midway, then blending into a sharper edged slightly exaggerated hip (reminiscent of the P1800). I don't understand why this very important/key design element was ruled-out? It was an obvious nod to Volvo heritage and was well received by all who evaluated the concepts. It is not something so drastic that it could not be transferred to the four door production cars.

      The S90/V90 designs were actually "finalized" before the XC90 but then the new designer came along, displayed these three awesome concepts and reception was SO great, they actually grafted new front and rears on to an existing design.
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    16. #49
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      GT3 RS scale model was pretty much spot on. The same will hold true for the S/V90
      Down to the interior

    17. #50
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bmo Pete View Post
      Raw horsepower figures aren't everything to a discerning high luxury vehicle customer. The power delivery sensation also matters. Range Rover may offer a 4 cylinder option, like in the LR's, but it certainly won't be the only or premium option.


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      Discernment, luxury, sensation and premium are all, like beauty, in the eye of the beholder. Cylinder counting is clearly not a problem for buyers of T8 Volvos or the BMW I8, among others. But if you want more cylinders simply avoid Volvos.

    18. #51
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      Quote Originally Posted by T Schroeder View Post
      The S90/V90 designs were actually "finalized" before the XC90 but then the new designer came along, displayed these three awesome concepts and reception was SO great, they actually grafted new front and rears on to an existing design.
      That sounds strange. Do you have a source for it?

    19. #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by JOHN T SHEA View Post
      Discernment, luxury, sensation and premium are all, like beauty, in the eye of the beholder. Cylinder counting is clearly not a problem for buyers of T8 Volvos or the BMW I8, among others. But if you want more cylinders simply avoid Volvos.
      Who are you to say it is CLEARLY not an issue for buyers of the T8. You don't know how many people have passed on the T8 due to it having a 4 cylinder. The T8 just showed up on the US website in the last few weeks. The volumes being sold of these is far from enough to make any definitive arguments. The i8 is also too low a volume vehicle to make any arguments against.

      This whole if you want more cylinders look elsewhere argument is a pretty crappy way to build market share! Volvo is currently getting its butt kicked with regards to market share and is trying to increase it significantly. Telling it's potential highest margin customers to look elsewhere is not the way to do it.
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    20. #53
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      Quote Originally Posted by P50GT View Post
      Who are you to say it is CLEARLY not an issue for buyers of the T8. You don't know how many people have passed on the T8 due to it having a 4 cylinder. The T8 just showed up on the US website in the last few weeks. The volumes being sold of these is far from enough to make any definitive arguments. The i8 is also too low a volume vehicle to make any arguments against.

      This whole if you want more cylinders look elsewhere argument is a pretty crappy way to build market share! Volvo is currently getting its butt kicked with regards to market share and is trying to increase it significantly. Telling it's potential highest margin customers to look elsewhere is not the way to do it.
      I'm John T. Shea. I'm NOT Volvo. So your continual whining at me will not influence Volvo. They won't make cars with more than four cylinders, so get over it.

    21. #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by JOHN T SHEA View Post
      I'm John T. Shea. I'm NOT Volvo. So your continual whining at me will not influence Volvo. They won't make cars with more than four cylinders, so get over it.
      Okay, so let me get this straight, when you say something, it's making a point. When someone makes a counter argument, it's whining. Sorry buddy, but the world doesn't work that way. This is a forum where we discuss things. If you don't like what is being discussed, don't participate.
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    22. #55
      Member JOHN T SHEA's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by P50GT View Post
      Okay, so let me get this straight, when you say something, it's making a point. When someone makes a counter argument, it's whining. Sorry buddy, but the world doesn't work that way. This is a forum where we discuss things. If you don't like what is being discussed, don't participate.
      I'm not your 'buddy', that's NOT what happened, and you're not 'sorry' about anything. I made a general point. You personally attacked me, starting with my very identity and conflating me with Volvo. I didn't tell Volvo to build only four or three cylinder cars, so make your complaint to them.

      I know how the world works and what a forum is. YOU are the one who didn't like what was being discussed. And I'll participate when and how I wish.

    23. #56
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      Quote Originally Posted by JOHN T SHEA View Post
      I'm not your 'buddy', that's NOT what happened, and you're not 'sorry' about anything. I made a general point. You personally attacked me, starting with my very identity and conflating me with Volvo. I didn't tell Volvo to build only four or three cylinder cars, so make your complaint to them.

      I know how the world works and what a forum is. YOU are the one who didn't like what was being discussed. And I'll participate when and how I wish.
      What are you talking about? You sure like to complain about being attacked when people just disagree with you. I have no idea how "your identity" has anything to do with anything I said. I called you "buddy" so you didn't get bent out of shape and think I was "attacking you" for calling you what you really act like. I didn't complain to anyone. I made an observation on a forum, the same as you. Get over it.
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    24. #57
      Member JOHN T SHEA's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by P50GT View Post
      What are you talking about? You sure like to complain about being attacked when people just disagree with you. I have no idea how "your identity" has anything to do with anything I said. I called you "buddy" so you didn't get bent out of shape and think I was "attacking you" for calling you what you really act like. I didn't complain to anyone. I made an observation on a forum, the same as you. Get over it.
      You know exactly what I'm talking about. You asked who I was, questioning my right to comment. And calling me 'buddy' was patronizing and facetious. I complained to you about YOUR (not people's) repeated personal attacks on me. You never just disagree with me. You complain to all of us all the time about Volvo's cylinder count, as if we should do something about it. And saying 'get over it' is just parroting me earlier comment.

      So feel free to have the last word once again, while I turn my attention back to the subject of this thread.

    25. #58
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      Quote Originally Posted by JOHN T SHEA View Post
      You know exactly what I'm talking about. You asked who I was, questioning my right to comment. And calling me 'buddy' was patronizing and facetious. I complained to you about YOUR (not people's) repeated personal attacks on me. You never just disagree with me. You complain to all of us all the time about Volvo's cylinder count, as if we should do something about it. And saying 'get over it' is just parroting me earlier comment.

      So feel free to have the last word once again, while I turn my attention back to the subject of this thread.
      You are just making things up. I never questioned your right to comment. What I said was how can you say that the cylinder count of the T8 hasn't lost any sales? How does that question your right to comment. You really do get over sensitive. Bmo Pete brought up the cylinder count, you disagreed with him, as usual, and I backed him up. This is what happened. I don't know why you think everything is about you and getting a last word in because its not. I was trying to have a conversation here before you threw your little hissy fit.

      And a word of advice, which I know you won't take, maybe if you stopped responding to EVERY SINGLE comment about cylinder count with "Get over it" or "Deal with it" or "Look Elsewhere", then you wouldn't think people weren't complaining "to you" when they responded.
      Last edited by P50GT; 11-04-2015 at 12:38 PM.
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    26. #59
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      Quote Originally Posted by JOHN T SHEA View Post
      Discernment, luxury, sensation and premium are all, like beauty, in the eye of the beholder. Cylinder counting is clearly not a problem for buyers of T8 Volvos or the BMW I8, among others. But if you want more cylinders simply avoid Volvos.
      It's not necessarily cylinder counting, it's ultimately about desired refinement in this segment, at least over in the States. You folks have gotten used to clackety diesels in your luxury vehicles, but that's not the case here. Regardless, there are smoother, more refined 2 liter petrol turbos than this Volvo, but for the price of admission in this luxury segment, the competition offers near the same fuel economy in more refined 6 cylinder petrol (and perhaps even diesel) turbos. Volvo will have to do a better job with this engine before I consider spending $60K+ USD for a vehicle equipped with it. Considering the competition, I have little reason to adjust my expectations or standards.

      Btw, we're more than happy to avoid Volvo's if we must...goes without saying I would think. A new GLE would look just as nice in the garage. Funny, Samuelson (Volvo CEO) spews the same jive as you with the "avoid Volvo's"..."Volvo's not a brand for you.." Interesting arrogance for a brand struggling for relevance again.
      Last edited by Bmo Pete; 11-07-2015 at 01:02 AM.
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    27. #60
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      Quote Originally Posted by P50GT View Post
      This whole if you want more cylinders look elsewhere argument is a pretty crappy way to build market share! Volvo is currently getting its butt kicked with regards to market share and is trying to increase it significantly. Telling it's potential highest margin customers to look elsewhere is not the way to do it.
      +1...so true!
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bmo Pete View Post
      It's not necessarily cylinder counting, it's ultimately about desired refinement in this segment, at least over in the States. You folks have gotten used to clackety diesels in your luxury vehicles, but that's not the case here. Regardless, there are smoother, more refined 2 liter petrol turbos than this Volvo, but for the price of admission in this luxury segment, the competition offers near the same fuel economy in more refined 6 cylinder petrol (and perhaps even diesel) turbos. Volvo will have to do a better job with this engine before I consider spending $60K+ USD for a vehicle equipped with it. Considering the competition, I have little reason to adjust my expectations or standards.

      Btw, we're more than happy to avoid Volvo's if we must...goes without saying I would think. A new GLE would look just as nice in the garage. Funny, Samuelson (Volvo CEO) spews the same jive as you with the "avoid Volvo's"..."Volvo's not a brand for you.." Interesting arrogance for a brand struggling for relevance again.
      Well said.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Bmo Pete View Post
      It's not necessarily cylinder counting, it's ultimately about desired refinement in this segment, at least over in the States. You folks have gotten used to clackety diesels in your luxury vehicles, but that's not the case here. Regardless, there are smoother, more refined 2 liter petrol turbos than this Volvo, but for the price of admission in this luxury segment, the competition offers near the same fuel economy in more refined 6 cylinder petrol (and perhaps even diesel) turbos. Volvo will have to do a better job with this engine before I consider spending $60K+ USD for a vehicle equipped with it. Considering the competition, I have little reason to adjust my expectations or standards.

      Btw, we're more than happy to avoid Volvo's if we must...goes without saying I would think. A new GLE would look just as nice in the garage. Funny, Samuelson (Volvo CEO) spews the same jive as you with the "avoid Volvo's"..."Volvo's not a brand for you.." Interesting arrogance for a brand struggling for relevance again.
      I think you're right. A lot of testers have said the 4 cylinder performs well but doesn't feel or sound as good as a 6 cylinder. I don't want Volvo going to 8 but I think Volvo may just have to go with a 6 cylinder in the future in the US. Luxury cars have at least 6 cylinder engines for some US buyers, any type of 4 is unacceptable. And really, is the fuel economy of this 4 that good? In some tests, it's beaten by the 6 cylinder in Audi's Q7. If that happens, the whole point of the 4 is negated.

      I understand Volvo saved money in engine development but I'm not sure the future is all 4 cylinders in large cars. v and s90 are Mercedes E class and BMW 5 series sized cars and both have 6 cylinder engines while some E class cars have 8 cylinders.

    30. #63
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      Quote Originally Posted by 02s80 View Post
      I think you're right. A lot of testers have said the 4 cylinder performs well but doesn't feel or sound as good as a 6 cylinder. I don't want Volvo going to 8 but I think Volvo may just have to go with a 6 cylinder in the future in the US. Luxury cars have at least 6 cylinder engines for some US buyers, any type of 4 is unacceptable. And really, is the fuel economy of this 4 that good? In some tests, it's beaten by the 6 cylinder in Audi's Q7. If that happens, the whole point of the 4 is negated.

      I understand Volvo saved money in engine development but I'm not sure the future is all 4 cylinders in large cars. v and s90 are Mercedes E class and BMW 5 series sized cars and both have 6 cylinder engines while some E class cars have 8 cylinders.
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      It is a bit of a prestige thing. Downsizing for fuel economy is a nice idea, but if I look at my father's 2.0T V70... Economy is dreadful. Turbo's are only more economical if implemented correctly, and running extremely rich for the sake of engine temperature is a crappy fix...

    32. #65
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      Quote Originally Posted by Unruled View Post
      It is a bit of a prestige thing. Downsizing for fuel economy is a nice idea, but if I look at my father's 2.0T V70... Economy is dreadful. Turbo's are only more economical if implemented correctly, and running extremely rich for the sake of engine temperature is a crappy fix...
      That was 15 years ago. Modern turbo engine's do Lambda 1 all day long.
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    33. #66
      Quote Originally Posted by 02s80 View Post
      I think you're right. A lot of testers have said the 4 cylinder performs well but doesn't feel or sound as good as a 6 cylinder. I don't want Volvo going to 8 but I think Volvo may just have to go with a 6 cylinder in the future in the US. Luxury cars have at least 6 cylinder engines for some US buyers, any type of 4 is unacceptable. And really, is the fuel economy of this 4 that good? In some tests, it's beaten by the 6 cylinder in Audi's Q7. If that happens, the whole point of the 4 is negated.

      I understand Volvo saved money in engine development but I'm not sure the future is all 4 cylinders in large cars. v and s90 are Mercedes E class and BMW 5 series sized cars and both have 6 cylinder engines while some E class cars have 8 cylinders.

      My 2005 chrysler town&country has the exact same range for curb weight as my xc60. In fact, I think its fair to say the van is slightly less since I don't have a lot of options on it and the xc60 is on the heavier side of the range cause its loaded.

      for the exact same driving routine: 24 miles a day in stop and go/stop light type traffic.

      The 2005 van is a V6 and gets 18 mpg
      The 2015 xc60 is inline 4 and gets 24 mpg.

      Highway... forget it, xc60 gets 31 or higher, van never breaks 26, even when it was new.

      so yes, this 4 cylinder is that good.
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      - XC60 T5 Drive-E MY-2015.5 Savile Grey Platinum w/ BLIS, Blond/Black Sport seats, Heated front. OSD -

    34. #67
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      Quote Originally Posted by johnee View Post
      My 2005 chrysler town&country has the exact same range for curb weight as my xc60. In fact, I think its fair to say the van is slightly less since I don't have a lot of options on it and the xc60 is on the heavier side of the range cause its loaded.

      for the exact same driving routine: 24 miles a day in stop and go/stop light type traffic.

      The 2005 van is a V6 and gets 18 mpg
      The 2015 xc60 is inline 4 and gets 24 mpg.

      Highway... forget it, xc60 gets 31 or higher, van never breaks 26, even when it was new.

      so yes, this 4 cylinder is that good.
      Comparing two vehicles built a decade apart doesn't really accomplish anything. A decade might as well be an eternity in the automotive world. We should have some official tests of the 2017 Q7 in the next few weeks, but the early one's are saying fuel economy is 25% improved on the 3.0T, which was rated at 16/22. A 25% improvement on those numbers would bring it above the rating on the XC90.
      Current: 2015.5 V60 Polestar Matte Gunpowder #50
      Past: 2008 Subaru Legacy GT
      Family: 1981 Volvo 240 Turbo / 2015.5 XC60 Ocean Race Edition

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    35. #68
      Member Bmo Pete's Avatar
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      Mar 2014
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      We are getting over 29 MPG on the highway with our XC60 T6 AWD (~65 MPH). The engine is very smooth and has all the power you need in all scenarios. It is a legitimate luxury power plant. I've driven the 4 cylinder T5 XC60 as a loaner vehicle on multiple occasions, and I can only enjoy this engine when cruising below 2,500 RPMs. Accelerating beyond this, it is not a pleasant experience, from a sound or performance standpoint. If netting maybe 4 MPG more from a lesser 2 wheel drive SUV (yet $40K+ USD) regardless of driving experience is satisfactory, then more power to ya (not literally of course).


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      ’18 V90 T6 AWD R-Design | '18 V90 CC T6 AWD Ocean Race Edition
      '05 CLK55 AMG Vert

      Prior Volvo's
      '15.5 XC60 T6 3.0 ORE Plat | '15 V60 T6 3.0 AWD RD Plat | '15 S60 T6 3.0 RD Plat |’07 S40 T5

    36. #69
      Junior Member
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      Netherlands
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      Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
      That was 15 years ago. Modern turbo engine's do Lambda 1 all day long.
      I'm sure they do, yet a 2.0T doing roughly 20mpg is hilarious if you ask me. That comes from somewhere and it's not just his heavy foot

      Edit: 1 op 9 :P No use having you translate that back to our system.
      Last edited by Unruled; 11-17-2015 at 05:55 AM.

    37. #70
      Junior Member sunRize's Avatar
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      Nov 2009
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      Moscow, Russia
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      Concept 26 dashboard. New Volvo S90.

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