1965 Volvo 122 Motor Swap Ideas - Page 2
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    1. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by ronin7 View Post
      I think you mean LX9? (The non-vvt 3.5L). That would be a good choice but there are issues in getting that engine to fit in the amazon due to the front cover and some accessories (AC compresser etc.) wanting to be where the steering box is and the cast aluminum oil pan would have to be sectioned and shortened to get the engine and transmission low enough to fit under the hood and the in the trans tunnel and clear the suspension cross member.

      The RWD 2.8L iron block motor I am using (from and S10) fits under the hood (including AC compressor) without ANY modifications to the engine. I am using the stock S10 engine mount ears and mounts with new pedestals for the S10 style mounts welded to the 122 crossmember.

      One thing to consider with the LX9 is that unless you go aftermarket the wiring is considerably more complicated (and you have to deal with things like the EGR and Catalytic converters). The S10 engine I have uses the stock Throttle Body Injection and computer, takes about 6 wires to get it running and is dead reliable.

      While the LX9 makes considerably more power, the S10 engine at ~ 120 hp and 170lb-ft offers a huge increase compared to any B18 or B2 that has not had thousands spent on performance parts and machine work. I have a flowmaster 80 Series muffler on mine and it sounds great. I don't have any sound clips for mine but this Fiero has basically the same setup (GM 2.8L 60 degree V6 and Flowmaster 80 series) and you tell me how it sounds!
      I wonder about the weight difference between the iron block V6 from the S10 and the B18 / B20. Aside from the possible unknown of the negative effects of increased weight up front, your solution is far too sensible and pragmatic and therefor lacks the 'out there' appeal. I am afraid that it is doomed to failure .

      I eagerly await a thread proposing the installation of a Rolls Royce Merlin V12 in an Amazon. Perhaps that would be appropriate power for the project car donor identified by NorthNH.

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    3. #37
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      A Merlin out of a Spitfire would be alright but I'd go with the BMW out of a 109 because those were fuel injected.

    4. #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by 142 Guy View Post
      I wonder about the weight difference between the iron block V6 from the S10 and the B18 / B20. Aside from the possible unknown of the negative effects of increased weight up front, your solution is far too sensible and pragmatic and therefor lacks the 'out there' appeal. I am afraid that it is doomed to failure .

      I eagerly await a thread proposing the installation of a Rolls Royce Merlin V12 in an Amazon. Perhaps that would be appropriate power for the project car donor identified by NorthNH.

      From what I can gather there is nothing to give between the two engines as far as weight at ~350-400 lbs. The V6 is shorter though, and all of the weight is behind the front suspension and should help reduce the polar moment of inertia. From what I can tell there should not be any weight penalty on handling. I am moving the battery to the trunk though to make room for an AC unit so that will help offset the extra weight of the AC system (compressor and condenser).

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    6. #39
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      Or the Napier sabre.

      "Development continued and the later Sabre VII delivered 3,500 hp (2,600 kW) with a new supercharger. The final test engines delivered 5,500 hp [6](4,100 kW) at 45 lb/in2 boost. "

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Sabre

    7. #40
      Quote Originally Posted by ronin7 View Post
      I think you mean LX9? (The non-vvt 3.5L). That would be a good choice but there are issues in getting that engine to fit in the amazon due to the front cover and some accessories (AC compresser etc.) wanting to be where the steering box is and the cast aluminum oil pan would have to be sectioned and shortened to get the engine and transmission low enough to fit under the hood and the in the trans tunnel and clear the suspension cross member.

      The RWD 2.8L iron block motor I am using (from and S10) fits under the hood (including AC compressor) without ANY modifications to the engine. I am using the stock S10 engine mount ears and mounts with new pedestals for the S10 style mounts welded to the 122 crossmember.

      One thing to consider with the LX9 is that unless you go aftermarket the wiring is considerably more complicated (and you have to deal with things like the EGR and Catalytic converters). The S10 engine I have uses the stock Throttle Body Injection and computer, takes about 6 wires to get it running and is dead reliable.

      While the LX9 makes considerably more power, the S10 engine at ~ 120 hp and 170lb-ft offers a huge increase compared to any B18 or B2 that has not had thousands spent on performance parts and machine work. I have a flowmaster 80 Series muffler on mine and it sounds great. I don't have any sound clips for mine but this Fiero has basically the same setup (GM 2.8L 60 degree V6 and Flowmaster 80 series) and you tell me how it sounds!
      The coolsound of the B20 is mainly coming from the intake, not the exhaust.

      It does not take thousands of dollars to bring a B20 into the 120 hp range. A simple cam replacement may get you there if you have the high compression heads. If you want 140 or 160 hp, then it gets more expensive. The only reasonable purpose to use a modern inferior engine (which suffers from the needs of reducing manufacturing cost in every way possible) is if there was a lack of parts, cores, or knowledge for the old engines. That is not the case, at least not yet. May be in 20 or 30 years. There is enough enthusiasm behind these cars (as Volvos, and not as pickup trucks) that the supply of parts and knowledge will continue for the near future. Many people do these type of weird modifications either out of lack of knowledge, or in order to have their own "unique" type of car. In our modern world where everything is identical, people like to have their own identity. But, in my opinion, you can make your own unique Amazon without bastardizing its authenticity.
      Last edited by Dimitri; 11-06-2016 at 02:51 PM.

    8. #41
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      Do you have any pictures of the engine in the car? It seems like a really good match of parts.

    9. #42
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      Are you talking about the TBI 2.8 from the S10? If so yes- I can post some pictures of the motor in the car.



      Quote Originally Posted by willieg View Post
      Do you have any pictures of the engine in the car? It seems like a really good match of parts.

    10. #43
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      IHMO, the 122 series is the car it is because of the B18 or in rarer cases the B20s they came with from the factory. Yes, surely there are various engines you could put into it or make it faster but again why? Do you want a cool looking old car that goes fast?

      If so, why a 122 there are plenty of powerful, fast and beautiful classic cars that look fantastic! Those B18s/B20s make the car. Are you planning or racing this thing or do you just wanna go really fast in a straight line? The amount of work you would need to do to transform a 122 into a platform that is SAFELY able to handle a much faster engine is no small task (sways, bushings, chassis reinforcements, brakes, mounts, the list goes on...). I'll give you an example, I have a 1968 122 coupe with a factory stock B18B that is 100% original, I took a corner a little too fast when I first got it and the car leaned like an Italian tower and rolled to the point of being very unnerving. Now you put +200 hp behind that and well you get the idea ... Sure, if you really wanted you could make a 122 an EV plug-in-hybrid but again why would you? Why not just buy a hi-po Mustang or something similar? Its waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper and the amount of cash you'd have to drop to get a 122 to even say stock Mustang level is insane.

      Build out whats already there. Bore it out, meatier cam, there are a variety of options and carbs to choose from (Webers, SUs, Solex, etc.), better flowing manifold (123GT, etc.) and such. See if you can source a B18B or a B20 from junker and build that out, these cars are so light that you really don't need too much power to make them VERY exciting. Hope that helps. Anyone can swap in a motor ... making the platform safe and able to proportionately handle that power is a whole different ball game.

    11. #44
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      cvf;

      Well put!...I find that a tight, strong B18/20 in a car with ASBs, good tires, and Brakes provides me with great vintage Swedish motoring fun, that I have no inclination to build myself a Frankencar...

      Cheers

    12. #45
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ron Kwas View Post
      cvf;

      Well put!...I find that a tight, strong B18/20 in a car with ASBs, good tires, and Brakes provides me with great vintage Swedish motoring fun, that I have no inclination to build myself a Frankencar...

      Cheers
      I respect both of your opinions- but you realize you are posting in a thread called 122 Motor Swap Ideas?

    13. #46
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      r7;

      I do, but you realize that thread is on the 122 Forum, not the V8 Conversion Forum, so both of us were expressing our opinions as to ("foreign") engine swaps (including 6s or 8s).

      I have to admit that a Cannonball Run 289 V8 equipped 122 I got a ride in once was one hellova hoot, but I also admit not looking into the V8 Conversion Forum much at all...

      Cheers

    14. #47
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      Quote Originally Posted by ronin7 View Post
      You realize you are posting in a thread called 122 Motor Swap Ideas?
      I do, just because there is a thread does not mean its a great, safe or economical idea. Would you rather we said nothing and you embarked on a project you later regretted without having the full picture?

    15. #48
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      Also, my 1968 happens to have the BW35 automatic. This might be a little more controversial but a properly functioning automatic is actually a total pleasure to drive and despite what others may say is not noisy or slow or such. I own one (not my brothers cousins friend of a brother that had one and hated it), I drive it every weekend and its absolutely fantastic! With a B18B (+115hp) its gets tons of low end grunt and moves quite effortlessly even in modern traffic. Again, its a 122 ...its was never designed to beat Porsches or Ferraris it was designed to transport farmers over pothole laden dirt roads or English professors in the city. If your looking to beat Camaros its not the car for ya. I mean you can motor swap anything like say a V8 in a riding mower but is it a great idea? Give these upgrades a try and frankly I think you'll be pleasantly surprised... and you wallet will also thank you.

      - IPD HD Front Sway
      - Rubber Bushings (poly only for the upper control)
      - Bilsteins Front and Rear
      - Lesjfors Progressive "Soft" 30mm Lowering Springs
      - 140 Cooling Fan (5 blade asymmetric)
      - 55A Alternator (Bosch from a 140)
      - 3 Core Aluminum Rad
      - Retrosound Radio


      I followed the advice of many on here and the car is a total gas to drive! Its light, its smooth as hell, runs beautifully and is TONS of fun to throw into corners. Oh, and its just as if not more reliable than stock. As a point of reference, I was in a parade last night with my mint 122 essentially idling in +28°C (94°F) for +2.5 hours without an external cooling fan or anything or than the 140 fan and the B18B didn't overheat or creep above 95°C (202°F) for a second. The Camaro and the Charger overheated ahead of me and both had to pull off.

      Now if that isn't a singing endorsement for building out what you have then I don't know what is. Horsepower doesn't always mean speed, there were tons of really horrid American cars from the Malaise Era that had massive V8s and still did 0-60 in like 19 seconds (who remembers the 1977 Olds?). The Miata/MX-5 has typically had no more than 115-170hp for the majority of its production run and has consistently weighed as much or more than a 122 coupe and has anyone called that a slow or boring car? Food for thought.

      It all about your power to weight ratio (dragging around a heavy powerful engine in the front with a super light rear end). Good idea? Now you have all the facts, I mean I'm not gonna stand in your way if you have your heart set on swapping the motor but know there are way better alternatives that cost way less and are a total riot to drive. Hopefully that helps.
      Last edited by canadianvolvofan; 07-03-2019 at 09:06 AM.

    16. #49
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      Beyond the discussions about power/weight ratios etc., there's the overarching reason for which many of us pursue vintage cars... the experience of owning/wrenching/driving a vintage car. Acknowledging "invisible" improvements like electronic ignition and the like (though true purists won't even go that far), there's just nothing like the feel, sound and dynamics of driving an old car. And yes, there's truth in the adage about it being more fun to drive a slow car "fast" than a fast car slowly. When I want to go fast and quiet, I'll take the modern car... when I want to have fun, I'll take the Amazon. Gulfstream vs. Piper Cub.

      If you're looking for pure velocity, the limits afforded by a hotted-up B18 or B20 might not be enough for you... it's all about the experience you're looking for.

      Time for me to fire up the SUs...
      Chris


      1966 122S B-18D/M40 4-dr, Sea Green/Brown
      2007 XC90 3.2 AWD, Shadow Blue/Graphite Gray
      2012 Audi A6 3.0T quattro, Aviator Blue/Brown

    17. #50
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      Quote Originally Posted by Csm22 View Post
      Beyond the discussions about power/weight ratios etc., there's the overarching reason for which many of us pursue vintage cars... the experience of owning/wrenching/driving a vintage car. Acknowledging "invisible" improvements like electronic ignition and the like (though true purists won't even go that far), there's just nothing like the feel, sound and dynamics of driving an old car. And yes, there's truth in the adage about it being more fun to drive a slow car "fast" than a fast car slowly. When I want to go fast and quiet, I'll take the modern car... when I want to have fun, I'll take the Amazon. Gulfstream vs. Piper Cub.

      If you're looking for pure velocity, the limits afforded by a hotted-up B18 or B20 might not be enough for you... it's all about the experience you're looking for.

      Time for me to fire up the SUs...
      Csm you nailed it! There is a certain visceral romanticism about jumping in, pulling the choke, pumping the gas twice and spinning up that indestructible motor. Now, if the motor was inherently ****ty and had like 26hp or couldn't keep up with traffic or merge properly I'd say totally swap it and get something more reliable. But, in the case none of that applies. These motors literally just need decent oil and gas and will happily run forever. After driving my 122 for an hour or more (and I love the car to bits) I can't help but appreciate my S60 all the much more. Its comfy, turbocharged, has a cracking sound system and does pretty everything I ask of it really really well. But, its too clinical, you don't smell anything, feel anything, hear the engine running and your clothes don't come away smelling like exhaust.

      I fall into a weird hybrid of being very particular about the car being period correct but also very reliable. I'm running a Pertronix unit in mine (as long as it can't be seen is generally my rule), an alternator (off a 140) and a cooling fan (off a 140). Why did I make these changes some purists might ask? Well, because they are very easy to convert back and I actually drive my car. Now, there will always be the ultra picky purists that demand that it has to have points but I'd rather not find myself telling the tow-truck driver "Yeah, it broke down ... still has points though!". As long as its not visible there is not harm in that. The original generator was horrible, even new it was like 20A and won't run basic modern headlights properly, the Volvo Original 140 alternator is fantastic! There are little things you can do to make the car a total blast to drive, but again these weren't 1960s muscle cars. I can't say I necessarily, understand the appeal of hot-rodding a 122 when there are way better platforms out there for that time and energy.

      A stock first-gen Barracuda would absolutely annihilate a 122, a set of nicer shocks and a stiffer sway and it will corner all day long without breaking the bank. Plus, these cars are slowly but surely going up in value. If you do every decide to sell most people or collectors aren't interested in someone else motor side project. They will be interested in a car with mostly original but well taken care of internals. There was a guy a while back that dropped an LS motor into a white 122 coupe, invested like $35,000 and listed it at $30,000 .... he couldn't even sell it for $13,000 (eventually I think it sold for like $12,000 at no reserve)! Now think about that for a second.

    18. #51
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      So how is the swap....

      ...going for you? I'm thinking of exactly the same mod. Dont mind some work, but do want some more pep out of the ole girl. Did you consider the GM 4.3 in your searches????

      Cheers


      Quote Originally Posted by ronin7 View Post
      Here is what is in my 1967 122s 4 Door






      It is a stock 2.8L V6 from an S10 with the stock throttle body injection. These engines make about 120-140 hp and 160-170 ft-lbs of torque and are very reliable. The transmission in the car is a T5 from the same truck. The engine fits without cutting anything and the T5 fit the auto trans tunnel without cutting (except the shifter is further towards the back which is a good thing anyway).

      These engines are dirt cheap, dead reliable and the TBI only requires a few wires to work properly.

    19. #52
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      Hey did you . .. . .

      . . . . .get the motor swap done? Results? I'm planning one out now for my Amazon. Was the power increase worth it?

      Cheers

    20. #53
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      Have not seen it mentioned here...but the 90s Volvo 4 and 5 cylinder Turbos seem to be a common swap. Lots of parts...you can get engines for cheap...and it keeps it Volvo. Also a 4 or 5 cylinder turbo can EASILY be built to 300+ hp..or keep it around 200+ hp for reliability and fun.

    21. #54
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      Half of my attraction to these cars is the simple, wonderful, durable motor that they come with. I think others here said the same regarding B18 and B20's.

      God forbid I ever did swap the motor in my own car...No I just wouldn't. But if I had a wagon (like I believe that you do), I might.....might...consider the 6 cylinder B30 that was in the 164 (and others, I think). I understand that it will fit without too much headache. But there is so much that can be done with what's there now (stock motor), I would not.

      Just another opinion.

    22. #55
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      Hello, anyone home...on the 2.5 motor....

      Quote Originally Posted by ronin7 View Post
      I think you mean LX9? (The non-vvt 3.5L). That would be a good choice but there are issues in getting that engine to fit in the amazon due to the front cover and some accessories (AC compresser etc.) wanting to be where the steering box is and the cast aluminum oil pan would have to be sectioned and shortened to get the engine and transmission low enough to fit under the hood and the in the trans tunnel and clear the suspension cross member.

      The RWD 2.8L iron block motor I am using (from and S10) fits under the hood (including AC compressor) without ANY modifications to the engine. I am using the stock S10 engine mount ears and mounts with new pedestals for the S10 style mounts welded to the 122 crossmember.

      One thing to consider with the LX9 is that unless you go aftermarket the wiring is considerably more complicated (and you have to deal with things like the EGR and Catalytic converters). The S10 engine I have uses the stock Throttle Body Injection and computer, takes about 6 wires to get it running and is dead reliable.

      While the LX9 makes considerably more power, the S10 engine at ~ 120 hp and 170lb-ft offers a huge increase compared to any B18 or B2 that has not had thousands spent on performance parts and machine work. I have a flowmaster 80 Series muffler on mine and it sounds great. I don't have any sound clips for mine but this Fiero has basically the same setup (GM 2.8L 60 degree V6 and Flowmaster 80 series) and you tell me how it sounds!
      Are you still avaialble totalk? Jim 360-265-5023

    23. #56
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      Ronin hasn't been online since July 2019

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