Poly Mounts and Bushings in General
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    1. #1
      Member ggleavitt's Avatar
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      Poly Mounts and Bushings in General

      Thought to start a general thread about polyurethane mounts, bushings, and inserts to get some feedback.

      Installed top stabilizer bushing inserts https://www.ipdusa.com/products/5034...ly-bushing-kit on both my cars yesterday and, while I have yet to test drive the V8, on the 2.5 it seems to be more responsive to acceleration from a dead stop and “feels” a bit more solid overall with very little vibration and road feedback.

      I also have subframe bushing inserts https://www.ipdusa.com/products/8969...ing-insert-kit installed in both cars, the 2.5 since 2013, and the V8 since 2015. Can’t say this made any significant difference, maybe feels a bit more solid on cornering but not much more that I can detect (supposed to prolong the life of the bushings, bushings were fine at time of installation and no issues to date so can’t comment on this aspect).

      **As a point of observational reference, I have all relatively new (OE rubber) upper/lower torque mounts, engine pads (front/rear), and passenger mounts in both cars so everything is relatively fresh.**

      I may also have a more conservative view towards the “balance” that Volvo creates with their approach towards the materials used and the functionality of the many distributed engine mounts that our cars share so I’m inclined to stop at this point (will not be doing top/bottom torque mounts in poly as example) but it would be interesting to hear from others who have used more than what I have on my cars.

      Thinking this thread might be of benefit to the community as there’s not a ton of objective feedback on this subject as a whole that I have been able to find in one location.

      Any and all feedback is most welcome to include not only engine but suspension component replacements.

      Open to all P2 XC90 variants (for everyone, please note your powertrain build when responding if it’s not already in your signature).

      Observations and thoughts?

      Thanks
      Last edited by ggleavitt; 09-27-2016 at 02:45 PM. Reason: add item
      2005 XC90 B5254T2 019 200k
      2008 XC90 B8444S Sport 452 130k

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    3. #2
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      I am styill very interested in learning how to replace this bushing:

      TRAILING ARM FRONT BUSHING, LEFT or RIGHT
      Part Number: 9169204

      How do you remove this bushing?

      2009 XC90 V8 R-Design

    4. #3
      Global Moderator R-Pow3R3d's Avatar
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      Greg, the in cabin vibration increase associated with ONLY installing the "Upper Engine Stabilizer Poly Bushing Kit" and keeping everything else rubber should be almost negligible. The real vibration is added when you poly everything. Specifically, the upper engine mount in addition to the upper engine stabilizer bar. When you do this, you take away the ability of the bushings to nullify the vibration in the rubber. On both R's, I went with the solid billet upper engine stabilizer strut bar conversion mounts, then got poly bushings for the lower torque mount and upper engine mount. On the automatic, this introduced a fair amount of vibration when idling, but the benefits seemed to outweigh the negatives (it felt much more tight and connected and, as you said, the acceleration felt more immediate). On the manual, it added a little vibration, but noticeably less than the automatic.

      Considering I've now added the XC90 V8 to the mix, if I were going to make a change, it would be to add the solid billet mounts to the upper stabilizer bar (so that it can act as a brace between the strut towers) and maybe go poly on the lower torque mount, but I would stick with rubber for the upper engine mount. I believe this would maintain the needed isolation to minimize added vibration, although I suspect some vibration would be added. In the R's, I think Sport > Comfort. In the XC90, I think Comfort > Sport. That's my $0.02
      Last edited by R-Pow3R3d; 09-27-2016 at 04:19 PM.
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    6. #4
      Member ggleavitt's Avatar
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      I agree with your observations completely. In reading the threads over the years, there are snippets of information that are not in a single place, intent of this thread is to hopefully get folks who have commented in the past to refresh their observations into one location. If we can get enough information, maybe it can become a sticky?

      And somebody please help PAX5 out? He's not gonna go away until he figures out how to get his broke bushing out, trust me on this.
      2005 XC90 B5254T2 019 200k
      2008 XC90 B8444S Sport 452 130k

    7. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by ggleavitt View Post
      ...
      And somebody please help PAX5 out? He's not gonna go away until he figures out how to get his broke bushing out, trust me on this.
      Got that right!

      2009 XC90 V8 R-Design

    8. #6
      hole saw it out, and then cut the inside sleeve with a hacksaw blade. you can then use a cold chisel or decent flat head screw driver to "peel" the sleeve away from the frame. Not sure how to get a new one in though as space is pretty tight. I bet you can rig something up with a carriage bolt and a large socket.
      2010 XC90 V8 - 140k miles
      2012 S60 T5 - traded with 177k. Lost compression on cyl 5.
      2009 C30 - Totaled. It ate a minivan at 35mph.
      2006 S40 - at 217k it was tired and needed too much.
      2008 XC90 3.2 - traded with 220,780 miles

    9. #7
      Member ggleavitt's Avatar
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      While I was checking the '05 for the suspension problem, I decide to take a few photos (https://goo.gl/photos/CYJyTvX9jY8fZQQ4A). For 12 years and 170k miles over a variety of driving conditions, bushings are in reasonable shape but there are some tears and they’re not going to go away.

      Tried to measure the outside of the bushing sleeve, think it's 60mm but since I figure I'll have to replace these at some point, I have 4 on order ($7.21 each) and will measure as soon as I have them in hand.

      Also contacted Draper Tools, will see if they respond. They do a few kits for similar applications with other manufacturers and models, they might have something to consider purchasing.

      Like the idea of rigging something for pressing the old one out and pressing the new one in rather than cutting and pressing but that may end up being the most economical approach. We’ll see.

      Not sure how many break, figure mine will sooner or later so I can start thinking now about how to replace them at home.

      As a follow up to the original post, have the poly stabilizer bar bushing inserts installed on both cars now, took them off the ’05 a day after install as it made the car thunks, rattles, and groans more pronounced. Now that the car is back to being stable and quiet, inserts are back on. Super happy with them but I need to re-stress the importance of having al new mounts and bushings in place before making the stabilizer bar more rigid.
      2005 XC90 B5254T2 019 200k
      2008 XC90 B8444S Sport 452 130k

    10. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by ggleavitt View Post
      While I was checking the '05 for the suspension problem, I decide to take a few photos (https://goo.gl/photos/CYJyTvX9jY8fZQQ4A). For 12 years and 170k miles over a variety of driving conditions, bushings are in reasonable shape but there are some tears and they’re not going to go away.

      Tried to measure the outside of the bushing sleeve, think it's 60mm but since I figure I'll have to replace these at some point, I have 4 on order ($7.21 each) and will measure as soon as I have them in hand.

      Also contacted Draper Tools, will see if they respond. They do a few kits for similar applications with other manufacturers and models, they might have something to consider purchasing.

      Like the idea of rigging something for pressing the old one out and pressing the new one in rather than cutting and pressing but that may end up being the most economical approach. We’ll see.

      Not sure how many break, figure mine will sooner or later so I can start thinking now about how to replace them at home.

      As a follow up to the original post, have the poly stabilizer bar bushing inserts installed on both cars now, took them off the ’05 a day after install as it made the car thunks, rattles, and groans more pronounced. Now that the car is back to being stable and quiet, inserts are back on. Super happy with them but I need to re-stress the importance of having al new mounts and bushings in place before making the stabilizer bar more rigid.
      How did you do it???

      Need to do mine ...
      2009 XC90 V8 R-Design

    11. #9
      Member ggleavitt's Avatar
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      I have not done it yet but I did receive the bushings (four of them, 2 for each car) today.

      Can see this link https://www.drive2.ru/l/1138928/ for another person who has done the job, can also see that somewhere along the line, the bushing gets built solid rubber with no gaps on the side (gets a FoMoCo part number on one side as well).

      I did a Google translate and added the [my (ggleavitt) inserts to try and make the translation more straight forward in English]:

      [removed first part, descriptive of failure]

      All these little things pull behind not only the deterioration of [the bushing], but other [parts of the] suspension suffer from it.
      Bought original ... VOLVO 31277893.

      I do not support the original [normally] ... usually it's silly money spent, but in this case, OE in the original box was worth even less than Lemforder
      Surprise inscriptions ... on the one side, our VOLVO. And on the other side ... [see our] FORD

      As for the replacement procedure ... It's hard to say about the level of preparedness.
      This is the case when a simple procedure, it would seem hard ... [but need] the framework of the necessary equipment.

      [description of not wanting to do this on his knees (I think)]

      [Photos follow]
      1. jacking the right direction ... in this case the right. Remove the wheel.
      2. remove the trailing arm bolt. (To remove the bolt and remove the lever, it is necessary for the lower arm and damper the ear substitute such as repair and support of …[use a jack to raise slightly]... otherwise load suspension trailing arm is loaded, it does not remove)
      3. Old [bushing] in aluminum, steel ... footprint over time may well oxidized, and the [removal] can take a lot of time and effort ...
      You can simply remove the old bushing by making one or two cuts in aluminum.
      4. Forcing the old [bushing] ... it is more than half of the case. Grease outer bushing, and use the adapter, start to seat it in place (it is important to take into account the installation angle).
      5. With a sigh of relief ... the whole job is done.
      6. [Replace] the trailing arm, tighten the bolt.
      7. Put the wheel, go to drink tea.
      p.s. After such manipulations, good to visit the alignment shop.



      I'm debating about how to do this job at home, looks like the OD of the bushing is 60mm, metal length is 45mm or so. I'll likely get a bushing set, have some other things I can use it for.

      Will post once I get around to replacement (will do both cars even though it's just the '05 with tears on the rubber).

      Absolutely needed? Maybe not. But figure if I do it now, and with the newer "solid" bushings, I'll never have to go back and do it again.

      **Looks like there is such a thing as a poly bushing for this application, see http://www.vivaperformance.com/polyu...o-s60-v70-awd/ and do a search for "polyurethane rear trailing arm bushing xc90". Not doing poly for this application, but for future reference it appears as though the PN 9169204 (believe superceded by PN 31277893) is the same part for the P2 S60, S80, V70 and XC70 (use MY2006 for reference to cover all models) so there might be options.**
      Last edited by ggleavitt; 01-10-2017 at 12:11 PM. Reason: add translation [my insert], **note
      2005 XC90 B5254T2 019 200k
      2008 XC90 B8444S Sport 452 130k

    12. #10
      Member ggleavitt's Avatar
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      Did Rear Trailing Arm Bushings in both my cars tonight, ’05 had some reasonable tears and figured while I was doing one, figured I might as well do the other. Average each side, including wheel removal, was 40 minutes. In retrospect, I don’t think it was really something that had to be done, but it was visible component and tears had been bothering me every time I jacked the rear up.

      Replacement bushings that I got from Lisle Volvo (PN 31277893) were solid rubber, just like in the earlier post. No more space on either side (maybe folks complained about tears too much?).

      Followed a number of the posts for presses after running out of commercial options in any reasonable price range (had contacted Draper Tools, they have a number of applications but nothing for the XC90).

      I had the idea that I did not want to cut or burn out the center and cut the aluminum to yank it out. I wanted a press to get it off and a press to get it back on.

      Been noodling this for some time, did some more poking around and came across this (image only)- http://www.autotoolsdirect.com/ekmps...ool-1091-p.jpg and, after finding it on the big auction site, bought one for a little over $140.

      I don’t do photos in sequence with my posts, but I did take a number of pictures during the work- https://goo.gl/photos/cp1PfTNd5kTz2Y1u5

      Pretty straight forward job, not a lot of room but the tool kit works fine for removal and replacement.

      The OD of the bushing itself is 60mm.
      For removal, I used the 70mm OD by 60mm ID to provide the leverage on the subframe and a 62mm OD by 52mm ID to get the sleeve to press out up to where it mates with the subframe, then the 58mm OD by 48 ID to finish the job.
      For replacement, used the 70mm for outside and a 64mm OD by 54mm ID on the bushing.
      Both removal and replacement used the M12 threads for the center.

      I put my bushings in the freezer to see if they would go in easier,cleaned the subframe sleeve with a non metallic brush, and put the tiniest sheen of Super Lube on the lip before pressing back in. But it's a tight press there, especially if you don't get the bushing fully lined up before you start pushing. So be forewarned, some effort will be required. I used a DeWalt 18V rechargeable impact gun, would probably not have used an air impact gun for this application.

      Few things worth mentioning (some noted in the previous post)-
      *If you move the rear brake line support out of the way, you’ll have more room for the press tool.
      *You’ll need to jack the wheel up about ½ way to get the trailing arm bolt off and back on. A drop of threadlock on the end of the bolt to keep it in place (had some on it when take off).
      *Clip about 1/2" from the plastic corner of the rear plastic moulding towards the front part of the wheelwell to make a little more room with the tool. See photos for detail.
      *Use a stiff brush to clean the crap off the bushing interface.
      *An alignment may or may not be required after this work, I’ll take one of the cars in for a spot check and see.

      I re-tightened the trailing arm bolt after everything was back together and back on the ground under load. Seemed to make logical sense to me, I may investigate if this is correct or not.

      Again, absolutely needed? As evidenced by the condition of my ’05/170k mile bushings when removed (some tears but nothing detached) and the paucity of posts and tools out in the world on this particular job, the answer turns out to be no, at least for my cars (at 175k and 113k miles).

      But I had time and an interest, I might be able to use this kit to press in bushings only on my next LCA replacement plus I have some other ideas in mind, so it suited my purpose. And I never have to look at the tears again.
      Last edited by ggleavitt; 01-21-2017 at 08:45 AM. Reason: change photo link
      2005 XC90 B5254T2 019 200k
      2008 XC90 B8444S Sport 452 130k

    13. #11
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      Nice!

      This will be my guide to do same.

      My bushings look just like yours, perhaps fewer tears ...

      Did it feel any different?
      Last edited by PAX5; 01-21-2017 at 06:31 AM.
      2009 XC90 V8 R-Design

    14. #12
      Member ggleavitt's Avatar
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      Feels a little more solid but that's perception only. It is a solid bushing now, might make a difference. Then again, I think both the cars drive better immediately after a car wash so for sure I'm a little biased.
      2005 XC90 B5254T2 019 200k
      2008 XC90 B8444S Sport 452 130k

    15. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by ggleavitt View Post
      ... Then again, I think both the cars drive better immediately after a car wash ...
      Hahaha ... I agree. Mine gets better gas mileage after a wash ...
      2009 XC90 V8 R-Design

    16. #14
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      Curious, I hear many say it was not necessary to replace when just cracked bushing, so my question is, what are the symptoms of a bad bushing, can you feel an issue in suspension or when braking. Mine are cracked, but I am trying to decide to replace as I have a weird sensation when braking. It feels like a pull to left, yet it is not, if that makes any sense. It is more like a dip in front suspension, but I replaced both A arms and it didn't solve problem which made me look at rear to see if it could cause this weird dipping motion upon braking, almost like a sponge effect. No strange noises, just this pulling and dipping like feel, so if rear bushings are bad, does this impact rear wheel alignment upon braking and upsetting rear wheel direction to impact this front dipping feeling? Thanks for taking time for write up, wish more would do this for the benefit of us all.

    17. #15
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      Is compression set creep still an issue with polyurethane?

      That said the inserts for the subframe bushings appear to be a major work/cost savings

    18. #16
      Senior Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by zak View Post
      That said the inserts for the subframe bushings appear to be a major work/cost savings
      They’re pointless. Full Delrin or don’t bother. The amount of flex is minimal.


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