Limited Slip Differential
Username
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
    Results 1 to 35 of 42
    1. #1
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427

      Limited Slip Differential

      Hi All

      So I'm working on my '73 142 again.

      I have a engine rebuild project planned, so hope to have at least 115 + HP, depending how far I go, the final plan is for the car to be a Rally Replica,

      I have a Rally Cluster, and 240 Turbo Wheels, The car is non original color, GM Bright White, and I plan on painting the hood flat black, and perhaps some Duckhams decals or such and a pair of Cibie Oscars.

      I have been doing quite a bit of research on LSD swaps and was looking for the Dana 30 27 spline, when I came across this on Summitt Racing,

      Anybody with any experience with this, or comments based on it's description ?

      The 142 is currently up on the blocks now as I just pulled the rotors and did the parking brake service, so maybe I just pull the axels out and do this LSD and new bearing and seals ?

      Recommendations on this part ?

      https://www.summitracing.com/parts/d...a588/overview/
      Last edited by scaramoucheii; 10-08-2016 at 04:56 PM.

    2. Remove Advertisements

      Advertisements
       

    3. #2
      Moderator Phil Singher's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2004
      Location
      Whidbey Island, WA
      Posts
      1,579
      I've used the Truetrac on several cars and it works great. The only downside is that they tend to grumble a bit under certain conditions. I don't know of another type I'd prefer.

    4. #3
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      Thanks for the quick response phil.

      I think I'll pull the cover off the Diff and and release the rear axel retainers and have a look. Then place an order Monday.

      Here is the first pic , the infamous BEFORE photo.

      IMG_4399.jpg
      Last edited by scaramoucheii; 08-05-2018 at 11:37 PM.

    5. Remove Advertisements
      SwedeSpeed.com
      Advertisements
       

    6. #4
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      OK, Exploration begun

      Looks simple enough to remove the old diff, but of course will have to remove the PanHard rod ....

      QUESTION

      If I just pull the half axles out far enough to get the splines out of the gears, do I need to replace the axle seals ? There was lots of oil in the diff and no signs of leaks at the hubs, as I had the rotors off anyway when doing the Parking Brakes. The Bearings sound fine, and did when driving the car 2 weeks ago. So can I just slide the axles out 3 inches, swap the diff and slide them back in and call it a great afternoon ?

      IMG_4404.jpg
      Last edited by scaramoucheii; 08-05-2018 at 11:38 PM.

    7. #5
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      Also forgot to add

      When I took of the Diff cover plate, there was no Gasket ?

      Should I order the correct gasket, or just go with a skim of RTV like what was there ? (Judging by photo 1 of this thread, I don't think that the gastket would be a bad idea)

      https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lub-llr-d030

    8. #6
      Member
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Saskatchewan, Canada
      Posts
      2,177
      If you have done this before, great. If not, I think you need the Volvo 'rib spreader' tool to get the entrails out of the differential housing.

      Info on DANA 30 LSDs. They have a photo of a spreader (not a Volvo spreader) about 1/3 way through the page.

      http://people.physics.anu.edu.au/~am...volvo_dana.htm

      As a side note, if you are re doing your 142, are you interested in some shorter (about a 30 mm reduction in ride height), stiffer springs? I have a set of front and rear single rate short springs that I got from Scandcar on my '71 142E. I am taking them out of the car because I am replacing them with progressive springs that just arrived from Amazon Cars in the UK. With the Bilstein shocks and the large IPD anti roll bars the springs are just way to stiff for the pavement around here which can be pretty rough in spots. The car does go around corners really well - if they are smooth. They would be a good add on to your locker if you were thinking about going auto crossing. The only uncertainty is that the rears have the pigtails and I can't remember whether the '73s got the later open end 240 style springs or still had the pigtail springs. PM me if you have any interest.
      Last edited by 142 Guy; 10-08-2016 at 05:27 PM.

    9. #7
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      Hi 142 guy

      PM sent, I'll take some pics of the spring seats in the morning.

    10. #8
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      OK, so having had a look at the tool in 142Guys previous post, AKA "Rib Spreader" it seems that the job is not as simple as simply undoing the 4 x bearing bolts, sliding out the half shafts and popping out the Diff.

      Seems that this is an "interferance" fit.

      I looked at possible places to rent the tool, with no luck, buying one is 200-400 bucks. So at this point I may just have to drop the rear end out of the car and take it to a local Jeep Shop, which seem a dine a dozen here in So Fla, and have them do it as they should have experience with this late '70s early 80's type.

    11. #9
      Member
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Saskatchewan, Canada
      Posts
      2,177
      I think Ford used a version of the Dana 30 on some Broncos and the 4 wd Winstar and maybe some other products, so you might also be able to find the appropriate tools and skills at a Ford repair shop. I don't know whether a Ford dealership would be any better than a Jeep shop.

      I had the ring and pinion on my diff replaced and initially contacted a number of transmission / drivetrain shops that claimed to do differential repairs. Once I mentioned the words Dana 30 they all declined to do the work. That is when I discovered the rib spreader issue and the fact that apparently the Dana 30 is not so much fun to work on. It took a while before I found a shop willing to do the work. Being in S. Florida you will certainly have a larger selection of potential repair options than I had.

    12. #10
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      OK, A productive weekend. But as it is somedays, Two steps forward and one step back.

      2 steps forward.

      I got the rear axle out of the car. Along with the springs, shocks, trailing arms and torque rods of course. Some of those bolts and nuts that had been in there for 43 years were very difficult, but it's all apart now and the Axle is waiting for it's trip to the local JEEP guy who said he would do the Diff Swap work.

      The Question of the day is, What is the ratio of my pinion and ring gear. Of course I cannot see the Pinion, but here is a pic of the ring gear.

      I have taken a guess myself, from reading the numbers, but looking for somebody with absolute knowledge to confirm what I suspect.

      https://goo.gl/photos/URsQQVg1Z2hTvzgj9

      One Step Back

      On a frustrating note, 43 year old Swedish Girlfriends can be stubborn, especially when your dating 2, and her sister was just out being driven hard ( '73 1800ES).

      It seems that getting the nut off her PanHard mount on the Axle was not something that she was too happy about. I was patient with the old girl, heated the nut, and applied lots of lube, Errr I mean PB Blaster, and the nut was coming off, or so it seemed, but I guess as the nut cooled, it galled, and snap .... Not paitent enough, but it seemed to be going so well.

      So not the end of the world as this mount works a shear load, and the compression of the nut simply holds the PanHard rod onto the shaft, so I think it would be easy enough for the shop to repair this. So just thought that I would mention it to you guys, to get your opinion on what you think would be the best repair option. I was thinking drilling a shallow hole, tapping a thread and inserting the same size bolt, and then having that bolt welded in. It seems that there is quite a bit of room there inside the bushing as the washer and nut don't land on the load bearing part of shaft. or just drill and tap and use a bolt to stop the Pan Hard rod from coming off.

      Thoughts ?

      Here is a pic of the mount, and the nut and the end of the threaded part.

      https://goo.gl/photos/WFtsdiKxcsSx6F797

      Photo with panhard rod in place, It seems to have sheared the threaded part of the support about 1 thread past the width of the washer (not in the picture) as I was making progress before it galled.

      https://goo.gl/photos/R1Ht2V77Gggxj1Y18
      Last edited by scaramoucheii; 10-16-2016 at 05:43 PM.

    13. #11
      Member
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Saskatchewan, Canada
      Posts
      2,177
      If you are going for some style, how about one of these?

      https://www.ringpinion.com/b2c/Produ...rd&ShowAA=true

      I think that if your car was non OD, the drive was usually 4.11. If it had OD, typically 4.27. I think 4.56 was an option on the 145. You should be able to pick out the likely candidate by turning the driveshaft once and counting the rotation of teeth. I am not aware of any other ratios used on Volvos; but, other ratios are avaialble for the Dana 30

      Since you are doing the shorter spring thing, give consideration to the fact that you are going to have to shorten your panhard rod (cut it, thread it and put in an adjuster) or live with an offset axle. I fitted an adjustable aluminum rod with heim joints at either end. The heim joints required that I cut off the old bolt on the axle mount and have a new larger diameter bolt welded on. Not to bad for you to do since the axle is out of the car.

    14. #12
      Global Moderator tmtalpey's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2004
      Location
      Eastern MA
      Posts
      8,901
      Quote Originally Posted by scaramoucheii View Post
      but here is a pic of the ring gear.

      I have taken a guess myself, from reading the numbers, but looking for somebody with absolute knowledge to confirm what I suspect.

      https://goo.gl/photos/URsQQVg1Z2hTvzgj9
      That's a 4.10 ("41-10" - do the math ). You'd likely be happier with a 4.56.
      2005 V50 T5 AWD 6MT w/Heico tune, Heico exhaust, Bell intercooler, IPD TCV, Viva Forge CBV, Elevate rear swaybar and torque mount, Snabb shift kit, etc.
      2016 XC60 T6 AWD
      1956 PV444 complete, running
      1956 PV444 very original, very rough

    15. #13
      Member
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Saskatchewan, Canada
      Posts
      2,177
      Quote Originally Posted by tmtalpey View Post
      That's a 4.10 ("41-10" - do the math ). You'd likely be happier with a 4.56.
      Clearly 4.10, which is what is listed in the Volvo owner's manual and the service manual. However, what is interesting is that if you go shopping for a new ring and pinion set, they seem to be listed as 4.11. None of the obvious pinion options of 9, 10 or 11 would give a ratio of 4.11 so I don't know how they arrive at that number.

    16. #14
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      Quote Originally Posted by tmtalpey View Post
      That's a 4.10 ("41-10" - do the math ). You'd likely be happier with a 4.56.



      So your saying that the 41 is simply the number of teeth on the Ring, and that the Pinion has 10,

      Of course when I saw the 41-10 on the ring gear, I jumped to the conclusion that the ratio was 4.1:1, also I did a spin test and it was a few degrees past 4 turns, perhaps 36, to get the ring to do one loop.

      Why do you suggest that I would prefer the 4.58:1 ? I have my opinions, as I know my driving style and what I will use the car for, but interested to hear why you think a smaller gear is in my favor. And I assume that a 4.58:1 would have, Ring Gear = 41, Pinion =9 ... And for 3.54:1, Ring gear = 39, Pinion 11.
      Last edited by scaramoucheii; 10-17-2016 at 03:09 PM.

    17. #15
      Global Moderator tmtalpey's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2004
      Location
      Eastern MA
      Posts
      8,901
      I haven't counted teeth, but it's clearly the ratio. A 4.10 rear end is a "taller" ratio than 4.56; the engine will turn fewer rpm at speed. If you have no overdrive, this is desirable. If you have o.d., you will find the engine lugs at all but high speed with the 4.10 with the o.d. engaged. You'll find it less drivable.
      2005 V50 T5 AWD 6MT w/Heico tune, Heico exhaust, Bell intercooler, IPD TCV, Viva Forge CBV, Elevate rear swaybar and torque mount, Snabb shift kit, etc.
      2016 XC60 T6 AWD
      1956 PV444 complete, running
      1956 PV444 very original, very rough

    18. #16
      Member
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Saskatchewan, Canada
      Posts
      2,177
      Based upon Volvo's owner's manual data with OEM tire sizes and my back of the envelope scratchings, at 110 km/h the engine speed in 4th would be 3846 RPM with the 4.1, 3971 RPM with the 4.27 and 4277 RPM with the 4.56. Pretty noisy in all cases so perhaps the increase in engine speed with the 4.56 on the highway is not such a big deal. A 4.1 with OD would be turning 3038 RPM and a 4.56 would be turning 3379 RPM. I expect that if you have a 4.1:1 with OD, really strong gusting headwinds (Saskatchewan - flat, no trees, trying to do 110 km/h with a 70 km/h head wind) might make maintaining a steady speed a challenge without shifting out of OD. See any kind of hill coming, just shift out of OD now!

      The 4.56:1 can be a treat around town (I have one) because of the torque multiplication. In urban driving 2nd gear does come up very fast because I like to shift right around the torque peak at 3000 RPM (before the engine gets really noisy). At speeds above 100 km/h, with my 185/65 tire size, the 4.56:1 experience gets really old really quickly (even with OD) because of the elevated noise level from the B20 engine.

      The 4.56:1 rear end will be a little bit like putting in a set of closer ratio gears in the transmission in that you will run through the gears much faster as you accelerate than you would with the 4.1:1 or 4.27:1 rear end. As a result you also do more shifts. The 4.56:1 may have a performance advantage (more torque multiplication) or a performance disadvantage (time lost in having to do more frequent shifts). You need to consider the application. As an example, if you were running an autocross and, on a really tight circuit, if you could get around in 1st and 2nd gear with a 4.1:1 but with a 4.56:1 you had additional shifts to 3rd, the 4.56:1 might be slower than a 4.1:1 even though the acceleration with the 4.56:1 might be better. In a previous century I used to race MX bikes with close ratio transmissions and depending on the track layout and track conditions would change the countershaft sprocket to alter the final drive ratio to optimize the transmission range / engine speeds to the track (never seemed do the trick for me).

    19. #17
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      Quote Originally Posted by tmtalpey View Post
      I haven't counted teeth, but it's clearly the ratio. A 4.10 rear end is a "taller" ratio than 4.56; the engine will turn fewer rpm at speed. If you have no overdrive, this is desirable. If you have o.d., you will find the engine lugs at all but high speed with the 4.10 with the o.d. engaged. You'll find it less drivable.
      I'm pretty good at math, and do grasp the concept.

      I do have OD. The engine dosen't "Lug" at all, as I stay in the power band in any given gear/speed range, I've driven it thousand of miles on the freeway, even Coast to Coast through the Rockies ........ If I'm not going fast enough for the OD, I don't use it. In general on the freeway at any speed over 60mph it's fine. The car is very drivable when driven correctly. Also, My stock 1800ES is a ton of fun to drive, and on the freeway I always cruise very nicely in OD. (It does have a few more HP that the 142S) when accelerating or passing, I will generally step out of OD, mainly because it's sporty and fun.

      I wouldn't put using OD on the freeway as a primary reason to swap to a shorter ratio rear end, and certainly not as I'm building a car that I will for the most part only drive like a sports car a thousand miles a year. In fact I would say if I were building a Daily Driver car for driving on the freeway a lot, I would stick with the 4.1

      I would think that the advantage of a shorter ratio rear end is accelerating out of slower corners. Right now I do find that sometimes 2nd gear is too "tall" coming out of slower corners, and first is too short, as it's really just designed to get you rolling. To take advantage of the new TrueTrac LSD, and my sport springs I would think accelerating out of a corner in 2nd or 3rd gear would be my incentive for swapping out my 4.1 to 4.56 and reducing the final reduction


      If I were building a race car, I would think that the rear end ratio may also be based on the length of the longest straight away and top speed required, and if you are still in the power band when you reached the end of of the straight away. In a race car I would would think that you wouldn't have OD, but a 5 speed Gear box with a 5th gear of 1:1

      And ... We haven't even begun to discuss final reduction ratio, considering tire diameter. The stock 165's were 25.4" diameter, and I certainly won't be running those on the car (although I do have a nice set of Steelies with 165's and shiny Hub Caps if I want to look "stock" for a Show and Shine). But for performance sport driving, on smooth ashphalt, i'll go with something in the 185/55 to 195/60 range on the 6" wide Virgo Rims. So possibly look at at something as low as 23"(185/55) compared to 25.4" Diameter. That's a difference to consider and would be equal to adding 0.1 final reduction ratio.
      Last edited by scaramoucheii; 10-18-2016 at 03:14 PM.

    20. #18
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      Hey 142guy

      you seem to have sent your reply as I started my response, and I saw your info only after I posted.

      We certainly seemed to be thinking along the same lines.

      Thanks for your comments on considering number of gear shifts, very articulate thoughts.

    21. #19
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427

      Shorter Rear Springs and Bilstien Shock length relationship

      Hey Monza and 142guy, sure your both reading this so thought I would address your personally

      So ...

      I have been a bit distracted lately working on the 1800ES and the House, and just getting back to my Rear End work on my '73 142 Rally/Sports Car Replica, after 9 months of it being on stands in the garage with the rear end out. So, over the previous months I have removed all the rust from the trailing arms and torque rods and painted them with POR15, replaced the bushings with Polyurethane, and all new Grade 8 bolts, and ... FINALLY... started to re-assemble


      I had a look at your thread Monza, and as you have the similar setup, I read through your thread, and now wish to ask if you noticed anything similar. But I do note that your rear springs BOLT to the trailing arms,

      Note: that although my car is a '73, it has the trailing arms and springs the same as a '74, with FLAT bottoms of the rear springs that fit into Spring Seats and are NOT Bolted to the Trailing Arms like yours, these Spring Seats simply sit on Rubber Cushions that are bolted to the trailing arm.

      so my car must have been a later production '73.

      1212422-8 Rubber Cushion
      1212425-1 Spring Seat

      ***

      I have Bilstien Shocks from a 240 (With modified lower bushing) https://www.ipdusa.com/products/6108...-shock-140-160 and the length from Center to Center is 17.25" (Bilstien 24-002967) They fit nicely (but read on)

      I have what I believe are Lesjofors springs, that I purchased from VP http://212.247.61.152/us/main.aspx?p...e&artno=167101 and the rears are marked with "75361 T400081/REAR" and is 13 7/8" Tall. The Old Original spring is 16 1/2" Tall, a difference of 2 5/8" (Approximately 67mm which seems to agree with the lowering of 40mm on the VP web page as the new springs are thicker wire and stiffer)


      ... my problem is that when I assemble everything the spring does not need to be compressed to install it,


      I have just dry fit the trailing arms, springs and shocks so far, but it seems to me that the shocks could (or should) be an inch shorter as with the shorter springs, as the springs are slightly coming out of the cups and not compressed at all when the trailing arm is hanging only supported by the shock.

      My worry is that if I drive too aggressively, and the rear end gets very light, the spring and Spring Seat may get displaced.

      When your cars is up on the lift supported by the chassis, and the rear end is hanging on the shocks, AND springs, and do you notice that the springs are actually under tension?


      Has anybody who has installed Shorter Sport Springs on a late 142 (or possibly very early 242) noticed this issue?
      Currently: 2016 XC90 T8, 1973 1800ES Original D-Jet, 1973 142 B20B, 1977 242 B230FT
      Previously: 1974 144 B20B, 1974 142 B20F, 1989 740, 1981 242 GLT, 1996 740, 1999 V70

    22. #20
      Member
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Saskatchewan, Canada
      Posts
      2,177
      Different trailing arms on my 1971; but, for what it is worth, neither the Lesjofors or the slightly taller Amazon Cars springs that I used to replace the Lesjofors required compression to get them in place. I have the Bilstein HD rear's sold by IPD which I assume are the same shock that you have. I can't remember whether I had to remove the shock to get the springs in place.

      I don't have a photo of my car with the springs in place; but, I do have photos with car suspended and the trailing arms and shocks installed

      IMGP1092.jpg

      IMGP1103.jpg

      The 1971 springs are secured at the top and bottom; but judging by the distance, I would say that the short springs would drop out if not bolted in place. Maybe not the OEMs.
      Last edited by 142 Guy; 07-29-2018 at 03:52 PM.
      A 142 of course. What do you expect? I'm the 142 guy. / 1971 142 E 102 color

    23. #21
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      Thanks 142guy, so it's not just me.

      I added 15mm worth of washers today to test , added at the top mount, and the Spring Seat cannot be rattled about and the spring actually has some compression at the forward edge. This arrangement would give me some peace of mind as it looks like the spring would now always return onto the Spring Seat and Rubber Cushion reliably. But of course this would mean then adding some hard rubber in the front springs to align the car horizontally and keep the front castor in check.


      Alternatively I guess I could add webbing straps to limit the rear axel downward movement, like on my 1800ES,

      Interesting that this hasn't come up before.

      Here are a couple of pics.

      The Drivers side has the spacers, and you can see that the Spring Seat is being pressed down onto the Rubber Cushion on the forward edge

      The Pax Side has no spacers at the top and the Spring Seat is not even touching the Spring, there is a few mm gap in there and the Spring Seat can be rattled around.

      IMG_6466.jpg

      IMG_6458.jpg
      Currently: 2016 XC90 T8, 1973 1800ES Original D-Jet, 1973 142 B20B, 1977 242 B230FT
      Previously: 1974 144 B20B, 1974 142 B20F, 1989 740, 1981 242 GLT, 1996 740, 1999 V70

    24. #22
      Member
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Saskatchewan, Canada
      Posts
      2,177
      You could take the Kalphenke approach and zip-tie your springs in place. I am sure that would do the trick!

      https://www.bneshop.com/collections/...ng-perch-mount

      On a serious side, if this leaves you paranoid about the springs popping out when you are doing your Bullitt car chase moves, go to Speedway Motors or one of the other vendors. They sell spring perches which have some fairly large center cones to keep the spring located. They might take a little fabrication to get them installed on the trailing arms.

      In the Kalphenke photo, it looks like the 240 lower perch has a much deeper location cone. could you retrofit a 240 perch?
      Last edited by 142 Guy; 07-30-2018 at 12:11 AM.
      A 142 of course. What do you expect? I'm the 142 guy. / 1971 142 E 102 color

    25. #23
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427

      Adjustable Rear End Rods

      Hey 142guy

      I have read through Brandom's thread and noticed your comments about adjustable Panhard and Torque rods at post #21

      I have had a look at the SPEEDWAY website and created a build list, the components for building 2 x Adjustable torque rods and 1 x Adjustable Panhard rod comes to less than $120 bucks. This is using 6 x Heim joints in place of the 6 rubber bushings on the standard OEM rods. But also includes Heim spacers, and a few 3/4" to 5/8" and 5/8 to 1/2" reducers.

      Have you noticed any additional noise with your adjustable Panhard using the Heim Joints? What do you consider are the pros and cons to going with all Heim Joints back there in place of the Rubber Bushings?

      I'll take some measurements later tonight and probably just order at that price. I can just build up the torque rods to be the exact same length as the OEM rods, and then I can adjust easily in situ if required once the car is back on the road. And I need the Adjustable Panhard rod so ...

      As I'm building a Rally Car Tribute, any additional noise and vibration from the rear end may add to the charm. Besides If I want quite luxury cruising listening to NPR, I'll jump in the XC90
      Currently: 2016 XC90 T8, 1973 1800ES Original D-Jet, 1973 142 B20B, 1977 242 B230FT
      Previously: 1974 144 B20B, 1974 142 B20F, 1989 740, 1981 242 GLT, 1996 740, 1999 V70

    26. #24
      Member
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Saskatchewan, Canada
      Posts
      2,177
      Double check the diameter of the mounting bolt on the axle. I don't know how I did it but I ended up with a Heim joint that was a nudge too small to fit the bolt. Had to cut off the existing bolt and weld on a correct shouldered bolt to fit the Heim joint ID. The joint on the body side was not a problems. The Speedway Heim joints are narrow compared to the original rubber bushings so you will need spacers on the body mount to take up the slack.

      The heim joint on the axle end is moderately well protected; but, the heim joint on the body mounted bracket gets junk thrown on it from the left rear wheel. The joints don't have any rubber protective boots so when dust gets on the bearing surface it does make a bit of noise when you get movement in the suspension. Clean and spray it with a little WD 40 and the problem goes away. If Speedway offers joints with rubber boots that would probably address the noise issue.

      Given the application, I am not sure that the Heim joints offer any material advantage. The rod is adjustable which fixes the offset with the shorter springs and it is definitely lighter than the steel rod. Its also gold anodized and looks trick and the price was pretty cheap, so why not. Just don't screw up on sizing the joint ID size like I did.
      A 142 of course. What do you expect? I'm the 142 guy. / 1971 142 E 102 color

    27. #25
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      I'll double check,

      I measured the PanHard and torque rods last night when specifying the components needed from Speedway, but at present the current Panhard rod has a 0.75" bush on one end and a 1/2" bush on the other. ( I'll measure the fitting on the rear end when I pick up the axel from Brandon's, a local Fort Lauderdale Jeep Guy that installed the LSD and new bearings)

      So, from Speedway

      I'm planning on ordering a 3/4-16 thread rod with a 3/4-16 - 0.75" hole Heim on one end, and a 3/4-16 - 0.5" hole helm on the other end.

      The other option is to use THIS, and drill out the bracket on the frame to 5/8", then have a poly bush on the chassis mount.

      Also, from my measurements I decided on a 28" Chromoly rod., which should give me adjustment from ~ 31-32.5, I noticed that the Aluminium rod only comes in a max length of 27". Did you use the 27" rod? I was just going to order the 28" as that should wind in enough. It kinda sucks that Speedway dosen't have mechanical drawings of their parts, I may make some more mechanical sketches tonight from their listed dimensions.

      https://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-...nch,40989.html

      I have decided on this following setup for the adjustable torque rods. I seem to like the Poly Bush rod end for some reason. Also can just make up the space with a few 1/2" washers either side. As I the drive shaft disconnected right now I'll try and make some measurements before I re install it, if I don't come to any conclusions I'll just make then the same length as the OEM rods.

      13" aluminium rods
      https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Alumi...ku=91034158-13

      Poly Bush Rod Ends
      https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speed...u=91008001-STR
      Last edited by scaramoucheii; 11-12-2018 at 10:08 PM.
      Currently: 2016 XC90 T8, 1973 1800ES Original D-Jet, 1973 142 B20B, 1977 242 B230FT
      Previously: 1974 144 B20B, 1974 142 B20F, 1989 740, 1981 242 GLT, 1996 740, 1999 V70

    28. #26
      Member
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Saskatchewan, Canada
      Posts
      2,177
      I definitely used the AFCO aluminum rod. I can't find the Speedway invoice (I kept everything else) so I don't have a convenient record of the part number or length. I would have to go out and get under the car to measure and confirm.
      A 142 of course. What do you expect? I'm the 142 guy. / 1971 142 E 102 color

    29. #27
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      I just got home and looked at the drawings I made last night, also re measured the OEM Panhard rod that came off the '73 142 at 31.5" center to center.

      The OLD parts list, -72, and the NEW 73-74 parts lists both note the same part number for the Panhard rod.

      HOWEVER, the parts list for the NEW 73-74 140's, Group 4 page 70, lists 2 part #'s

      Up to Chassis no 393949 Part #677284-2 (and also listed on VP web page as Track rod 140/164 -73 rear)
      From Chassis no 393950 Part #1206059-6,

      NOTE my car is #367392

      HOWEVER I also still have the Panhard rod from '74 142 VIN #442011 that I parted out in 1993 and, it is a bent rod, 25.5" long and larger diameter, same bend as on my 1977 242 but about 2 inches shorter than the 242's. So I'm assuming that late 73 and all 74's had this panhard rod , and it's #1206059-6

      So anyway ... looks like I have the same Panhard as 142Guy

      The 1" lowering of the body towards the rear axel will only cause a very slight change in the angle of the rod say 5º-10º ?

      cos(5º) x 31.5" = 31.38" DIFF 0.12
      cos(10º) x 31.5" = 31.02" DIFF 0.50

      So I'm thinking that between 0.25" and 0.50" shorter Panhard is in the range to keep the rear axel aligned behind the trailing arms and below the shocks and springs.

      If I use a 28" rod from Speedway, and they suggest adding 3 inches for the rod ends for your final Center to Center measurement, and that will give approx 1" of adjustment, so the final adjustable Panhard would be 29.5" to 31.5"

      Sound reasonable ?
      Currently: 2016 XC90 T8, 1973 1800ES Original D-Jet, 1973 142 B20B, 1977 242 B230FT
      Previously: 1974 144 B20B, 1974 142 B20F, 1989 740, 1981 242 GLT, 1996 740, 1999 V70

    30. #28
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Jul 2014
      Location
      St. Louis, MO
      Posts
      83
      scaramoucheii - When you make your Panhard & trailing arms, take a lot of photos!
      I may go this way with my 73 142. I have the same springs, but went with the KYB Gas-A-Just (Just-A-Gas) shocks.
      Just got caught up on you thread. When I put my front springs in, I did not need to compress them. I haven't done the rear yet.
      When I did my 1966 Buick Wildcat, the fronts were direct replacements and I thought I'd never get them in. I'm convinced they are the wrong springs. When I did the rears on it, they went in like yours.
      I'm pretty sure that once you have the weight of the body shell on the rear end, and torque everything to spec with it on its wheels, you should not have any problem.
      Steve

    31. #29
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      OK, so considering that the car was in my Mothers garage for 23 years, I think I'm making good progress ...

      All kidding aside, it did take me a little longer than I thought as I wasn't originally planning on removing the rear end and completely rebuilding it, then when I finally got it out of the car a few other lifer projects got in the way ...

      Anyway, after assembling all the parts and dropping it off at the local independent Jeep expert here in town, things went very quickly

      Here is what it looked like after picking it up last week.

      IMG_6479.jpg

      And then pushing it under the rear end of the car. It went in over the weekend very sucessfully. I have the original torque rods and Panhard on there now, but I'm going to buy some rods and ends from Speedway and build up some adjustable bars, so standby for that (promise it wont take a year).

      IMG_6492.jpg

      I have also rebuilt the parking break by removing all the rust from the small components, painting them and getting new shoes from VP.

      I sometimes sound like a broken record when I recommend VP all the time to newbies asking where they can get parts, but I do really like them. Sure I have bought parts from Summit Racing (The Eaton Trutrac Diff and 4 x Bilstiens) and Rock Auto, IPD etc, etc. But a lot of my purchases are from VP, like the springs and all the "Volvo" specific items I need. For Example I ordered the Parking Brake Shoes, Shock Supports, and a few other parts from VP last Wednesday, and 3 days later, ( well I am kind close to their Charleston location) on Saturday while I was just finishing up the rear end install in the Garage, the FedEx Ground truck pulled up and handed me this box ...

      Needless to say IT"S A KEEPER and will get filled with some used parts and displayed on a shelf in the garage ... proudly,

      IMG_6497.jpg

      Also the fact that they have all the speciality OEM parts is a good reason to support them so that they will continue to exist and provide us with what we need.

      The Shock supports have a backing plate welded on, and are primed in a thick gray, so I may just round out the sharp edges and rivet them in place (I'm a Aircraft guy and have a lot of trust in rivets if it's done correctly

      IMG_6498.jpg

      Anyway, it's a beer, a Ibuprophen and bed for me now (working on that read end alone is not for the older mature gentleman)
      Last edited by scaramoucheii; 08-06-2018 at 12:13 AM.
      Currently: 2016 XC90 T8, 1973 1800ES Original D-Jet, 1973 142 B20B, 1977 242 B230FT
      Previously: 1974 144 B20B, 1974 142 B20F, 1989 740, 1981 242 GLT, 1996 740, 1999 V70

    32. #30
      Member
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Saskatchewan, Canada
      Posts
      2,177
      Something to consider. If you check back through the 140 posts a number of years ago, there were some people talking about running without the external reinforcing plate for the top shock mounts. They had the top bolts connected in pure cantilever, just as the bottom bolts are. I know on my 740 the top bolts were in cantilever and I think that on my 242 the top bolts were also in cantilever. As long as there is a reasonable amount of thread on the body side, cantilever mounting would probably be just fine. The vertical forces on the shock mounting bolts are not huge. Could save you the hassle of mounting the plates.

      That said, I replaced the external shock reinforcing plate when I redid my car. The one down side to the re enforcing plates is that they can trap water / mud between the plate and the inner fender liner which leads to rusting of both the plate and the fender liner - which is why I had to replace the plates and patch the fender liner in the first place.

      Very interested in hearing how you like the Trutrac.
      A 142 of course. What do you expect? I'm the 142 guy. / 1971 142 E 102 color

    33. #31
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      Well in fact the old Shock Supports were rusted away when I got the car in 1991

      When I did some rust repair in 1992, I just patched over the holes in the wheel arch by riveting on some sheet metal. (you can see the patch panel, with rivets, and black undercoating) in the first photo of my post #21

      The car has been driven thousands of miles, including some private "Special Stages" on the CPR logging roads of B.C, and driven from Vancouver Island to Ontario, with the top mount only cantilevered. When I took the bolts out recently they were straight, but I have replaced them with Grade 8.

      Makes me more confident in riveting in the new Shock Supports not being an issue, as that they are simply supporting the end of the bolt and the car has lived without them for 25 years. I'll put some body sealer around the edge when I rivet to ensure that the back side stays dry, then just spay over them with some black undercoat.

      But .... with the new shocks and revamped suspension and LSD, it may get a little more load applied Also, I saw the pics of your car in post #20 here and then saw the components on VP for $23.33 each so thought why not? And putting the car back together like it was when new is never a bad thing.
      Last edited by scaramoucheii; 08-06-2018 at 10:17 PM.
      Currently: 2016 XC90 T8, 1973 1800ES Original D-Jet, 1973 142 B20B, 1977 242 B230FT
      Previously: 1974 144 B20B, 1974 142 B20F, 1989 740, 1981 242 GLT, 1996 740, 1999 V70

    34. #32
      Member
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Saskatchewan, Canada
      Posts
      2,177
      Have you had a chance to try out your Tru Trac yet? I am curious as to whether it makes any noise on tight corners. Which model did you get?
      A 142 of course. What do you expect? I'm the 142 guy. / 1971 142 E 102 color

    35. #33
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      It's ALMOST all back together, I received the Adjustable torque rods and Adjustable PanHard rod from Speedway, and was just bolting all that up last weekend.

      I have ordered some Stainless Steel brake Lines and they are promised to be finished by Nov 15th,

      Also have new rubber (185/65 15) on the Virgos, so should all be back on the road in 2 weeks.
      Currently: 2016 XC90 T8, 1973 1800ES Original D-Jet, 1973 142 B20B, 1977 242 B230FT
      Previously: 1974 144 B20B, 1974 142 B20F, 1989 740, 1981 242 GLT, 1996 740, 1999 V70

    36. #34
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427

      Adjustable Panhard and Torque Rods from SpeedWay

      Quote Originally Posted by 142 Guy View Post
      Double check the diameter of the mounting bolt on the axle. I don't know how I did it but I ended up with a Heim joint that was a nudge too small to fit the bolt. Had to cut off the existing bolt and weld on a correct shouldered bolt to fit the Heim joint ID. The joint on the body side was not a problems. The Speedway Heim joints are narrow compared to the original rubber bushings so you will need spacers on the body mount to take up the slack.
      Ok So ... the diameter of the mounting post that is welded to the axle housing is 20mm, (0.788") , so you probably measured it and just called it 3/4, as everything else is Imperial .... AND, Speedway's only reasonably priced Heims are 0.757". If you go with Metric Heims, you then need a Metric Rod, and a fitting for the Body side that is also Metric, to fit the Metric Rod, at which point you need to then drill the hole in the Body Mounting Bracket to fit your new 20mm metric bolt. 2 metric Heim joints alone are the cost of my entire Adjustable Panhard Rod, Torque rods, and spacers and lock nuts.

      https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Searc...uery=20X1.5+RH

      so I ....

      .... "machined" down the mounting post that is welded to the axle housing to just a little over 19mm until the 0.757" Heim fit. the Machining was done in place with a file, emery cloth and TIME, quite a bit of TIME .... But I had the Hockey game on and cold beer, so not much different than laying on the couch. It may not be perfectly round, but it fits very well and shouldn't cause an issue.

      As I mentioned in a previous post, I was going to go with a Poly Bush on the body side, to help reduce noise and vibration, but that would have required drilling the hole in the body bracket bigger anyway. In hind sight perhaps that was the way forward, and if I was to do it again I would do that, But I just used the 1/2" heim there and got a bronze bush from Ace hardware. After putting the bush in my drill press and pressing a hacksaw blade against it cut the bush in half I lost a 1/16th of an inch. Not quite the exact correct fit, but only had to add a single washer washer to each side so looks very clean. If I find it noisy, I can always add the poly bush rod end later.

      BODY ATTACHMENT OF PANHARD WITH ACE HARDWARE BRONZE BUSH CUT IN HALF, AND 2 WASHERS.

      IMG_6715.jpg

      AXLE ATTACHMENT OF PANHARD WITH 0.757 HOLE SIZE HEIM

      IMG_6711.jpg

      So the Torque Rods

      the length Fits perfectly, I went with 13" rods and and for these I did go with Poly Bush rod Ends on both ends, the only issue here is that they don't seem to line up.

      Not sure what is going on here as the trailing arms both have new Poly Bushes front and rear, so the rear axle must be square to the car, and it is hanging on the shocks, but I will do some measuring on the weekend and see what is "tweaked" perhaps there is some bent bracket somewhere from driving with old worn out rubber bushes back there. Nothing a block of wood and a 10lb precision adjustment tool can't re align

      Notice from the following photos that I have the spacers in at the front end, but the back Rod end is hard up against one side of the mounting flange on the axle (Don't mind the anti seize grease, I'll clean that up after I torque all the bolts down)

      Also note: The freshly painted IPD Bar and Links. They are the old originals i bought in the late the 80's. Galvanized and not powder coated, and they looked a little "old" so, I buffed them out and painted them, good as new, and ... got rid of the can of yellow rustoleum I had laying around.

      IMG_6817 (1).jpg

      IMG_6815 (1).jpg
      Last edited by scaramoucheii; 11-15-2018 at 07:32 PM.
      Currently: 2016 XC90 T8, 1973 1800ES Original D-Jet, 1973 142 B20B, 1977 242 B230FT
      Previously: 1974 144 B20B, 1974 142 B20F, 1989 740, 1981 242 GLT, 1996 740, 1999 V70

    37. #35
      Junior Member scaramoucheii's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Florida, USA
      Posts
      427
      Sorry I haven't linked these to a BOM, linked to the Speedwayweb page, if I get bored I may do so, but this gives you an idea and you can transpose the part numbers into Speedway Cart

      https://www.speedwaymotors.com/

      Screen Shot 2018-11-15 at 7.37.30 PM.jpg
      Screen Shot 2018-11-15 at 3.27.08 PM.jpg
      Screen Shot 2018-11-15 at 3.26.52 PM.jpg
      Currently: 2016 XC90 T8, 1973 1800ES Original D-Jet, 1973 142 B20B, 1977 242 B230FT
      Previously: 1974 144 B20B, 1974 142 B20F, 1989 740, 1981 242 GLT, 1996 740, 1999 V70

    38. Remove Advertisements

      Advertisements
       

    Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast