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    1. #1
      Junior Member dannoman007's Avatar
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      timing screw up???????

      So,did my timing belt on 05 s60 2.5t today.. I was confused about lower timing mark,by the time I got to setting everything up to reinstall I was exhausted..
      I'm afraid I may be as much as 2 teeth off on the bottom .. Started car,idled up as was cool,went down to normal idle..shut off and fill coolant. Started car,seemed to run normally,ran up to operating temp,revved several times to see power output,shut it down..buttoned every thing up,leaving area where I worked and check engine light came on, minutes later coolant level low,which I expected ,and then (stop car,low coolant) light came on,drove a block,filled coolant,and check engine light still on,and now car in limp mode..
      I'm wondering just how far off timing can be before damage will occur?
      I plan on going thru procedure again tomorrow as have figured out how bottom marks line up..
      I'm seriously worried about damage as I can't afford the fix if it needs it..
      Please help,with good news hopefully?!
      Thanks
      Danno

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    3. #2
      Senior Member JRL's Avatar
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      Post in the S60 forum, not here where you won't get many, if any, responses, and next, have it re-timed by someone who really knows what they're doing.
      If off enough that it's not running right so tow it there
      Email: jrl1194 ( at ) AOL (dot) com
      2007 V70 2.5T White/Oak/Tan/Arena, 117K miles. My DD with no plans to sell it anytime soon
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    4. #3
      Global Moderator R-Pow3R3d's Avatar
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      Thread moved.
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    6. #4
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      Ive heard 3 teeth you start to get in to trouble. Can do a quick check with a compression test. I would do some research on the exact procedure and be completely comfortable with what youre doing

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    7. #5
      Junior Member dannoman007's Avatar
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      Well I had researched everything,that's the only reason I attempted the job..volvo has a variety of timing marks which is confusing,I had to wait 2 hours for a w/p gasket to show up,and did not have internet access where I was,by the time gasket showed up and spending 4 hours up ,down,bent over,4 hours turned into 6.. Did I mention I'm 59 years old and disabled??
      Thank for replies,I post where I know how so really don't need that input...
      L

    8. #6
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      Danny, from what you've said, it sounds like a fairly easy readjustment for proper mark alignment. I had my daughter's '07 S60 off enough to where there was physical interference and could not make a full 360° turn by hand. Once I let it sit overnight and then dug back into it, starting from scratch with the alignment process, it came out perfect. I know that you were not working on the CVVT hub at all yesterday, but if you read through the Guide I emailed to you, and focus on just the timing mark alignment process (ignoring the steps about tightening and setting the CVVT hubs), it should help you get things back in the right places.

      Personally, I believe that if it starts and idles the way you describe, you're not very far off at all. Also, if you decide to have it towed, ask the guys over at Oxmoor what they would charge for just setting the timing, which would be a lot less than what they quoted you for the entire timing belt and water pump job, and that might be a decent "middle ground" for you.

      If you dig back into it yourself, just be patient and take it slow, double checking every move you make. Having gotten it as far as you have at this point, I believe these final adjustments are within your grasp.
      ___________________

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      Garage also includes 10 Lexus RX450h, 02 F250 7.3L Diesel, 06 Outback 2.5 AWD, and 99 4Runner 2WD

    9. #7
      Junior Member dannoman007's Avatar
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      Thanks Pete,
      Those are the words I needed to hear..soaking my hands in salt water right now,look like I played banjo with a cheese grater!! Lol.right now I'm at 38$ to get thru the month,so this is all on me at this point..being disabled in this country sux,your treated less than these asshloes on welfare..

    10. #8
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      One more detail, Danny. Make sure when you're putting the belt on that you have the exhaust CVVT hub manually rotated fully clockwise (top rotated "forward" towards the front bumper) before placing the belt cogs over it, and you can't let it slip loose while getting the belt the rest of the way on. If it slips and moves backwards even one tooth position, start over.
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      Garage also includes 10 Lexus RX450h, 02 F250 7.3L Diesel, 06 Outback 2.5 AWD, and 99 4Runner 2WD

    11. #9
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      check tip given to greg 60-t about 5 posts down from yours on this same page, it might help you also.

    12. #10
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      Eddie O... just to be sure, you're talking about the tip in the quote below from the other thread, correct?

      "I also have a 2003 S-60 2.5 awd. It had just over 80,000 on it so I did what I could to bring engine down to zero maint. New water pump ,timing belt and tensioner. Had some problems setting up belt,it threw me a code. you know its a little difficult to see marks on power steering side , that gap between cam sprocket and tb cover don't help none either. So here's what I did, lining belt up properly to crank and right hand cam marks are not to bad,can be seen better. then did best I could to line up left hand cam. Ya know once belt is in place , the belt itself becomes a nice flat surface to work from. Here's the trick, or check I used. Find a small straight edge about 3 quarter by 3 inch and lay it directly on top of belt, move it to cam mark and see if it does in fact line up with cam cover mark. The empty space will be gone and you now have a straight line you can easily see. Anyhow that's what worked for me. Hopes it helps you to."

      Last edited by F250; 11-17-2016 at 09:20 AM.
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      Garage also includes 10 Lexus RX450h, 02 F250 7.3L Diesel, 06 Outback 2.5 AWD, and 99 4Runner 2WD

    13. #11
      Junior Member dannoman007's Avatar
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      Man,
      I was hoping I could rotate to where cam marks align,my problem I'm sure is the crank mark is one,two teeth forward,remove belt after aligning cam marks,rotate crank 2 teeth or whatever backwards,reinstall,belt rotate to see that all is well??
      Im not understanding about this cvvt loading and such,and how to do it if needed,no cam lock tool availability and otherwise I'm in a desert with no water on this deal..
      I know where I went wrong,can't I align cam to marks,remove belt adjust crank to marks and be good there????

    14. #12
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      yes, thats what I'm refering to.

    15. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by dannoman007 View Post
      Man,
      I was hoping I could rotate to where cam marks align,my problem I'm sure is the crank mark is one,two teeth forward,remove belt after aligning cam marks,rotate crank 2 teeth or whatever backwards,reinstall,belt rotate to see that all is well??
      Im not understanding about this cvvt loading and such,and how to do it if needed,no cam lock tool availability and otherwise I'm in a desert with no water on this deal..
      I know where I went wrong,can't I align cam to marks,remove belt adjust crank to marks and be good there????
      You shouldnt worry about the CVVT loading. Its better to be aware of it. For instance, if you were to lock the back of the cams with the tool, you would still be able to rotate the cam gear slightly because of the CVVT hub. To make sure you have everything set properly, only turn the cams clockwise to align marks. Do not move them ccw to align the marks. This does not ensure that you are actually moving the cam itself. To make sure you have done this properly, always turn crank by hand through 2 revs and make sure the marks are where you left them. You should be able to do what you are describing, as in aligning the cams, if they are both in sync with one another, then turn the crank back. Or you could align the crank mark, take the belt off. Carefully rotate the cams CW until you are at your marks, then put the belt back on. The job becomes easier with a cam locking tool, but it is possible to do without.

    16. #14
      Junior Member dannoman007's Avatar
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      Back at it this morning..basically am lost,did what I thought I needed to do,hand cranked check all the marks started car,got major problems at this point..

    17. #15
      Junior Member dannoman007's Avatar
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      Back at it this morning..basically am lost,did what I thought I needed to do,hand cranked check all the marks started car,got major problems at this point..anyone in Birmingham area that can help,I can't pay anything till 1st of month..but will gladly pay ,as I'm not going to do this by myself obviously.. I am screwed without vehicle being disabled,with doc appointments.. My number is here,dammit man!!!
      205-705-5108
      Danny..

    18. #16
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      Not to hijack the thread, I'm about to do this job on my '04 2.5T real soon here. If I physically mark the cam gears AND crank sprocket as well as the belt at all marking points from the cam gears and crank sprocket, and then match those marks onto the new belt, I should be good as gold for timing, right?

      For Danno, sounds like you're doing good and getting it down. Just take it slow and like mentioned, double check things. Good luck!!
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    19. #17
      Junior Member dannoman007's Avatar
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      Thanks Phixion I believe it may be too late,the problem is I talked to 2 indie guys,never did one of these,the other "Volvo" indie shop wanted 800$ ,that is both shops I talked too were that much,my car is 11 years old with 200,000 k on it,valued at about 1200$. Your damned if youyou dont

    20. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by dannoman007 View Post
      Thanks Phixion I believe it may be too late,the problem is I talked to 2 indie guys,never did one of these,the other "Volvo" indie shop wanted 800$ ,that is both shops I talked too were that much,my car is 11 years old with 200,000 k on it,valued at about 1200$. Your damned if youyou dont
      I definitely hear you there and agree. Even paying just to re-time it is worth it I think so long as no damage has occurred. In fact I'm almost sure you'd know if any has. I bought all of the components a few months back for my timing belt change and being on the fence of if I wanted to do it myself or have an indie Volvo specialty shop do it, they quoted me $475 for the labor if I bring in my own parts. In comparison, the local dealership wants $1300 for the whole job!! The parts only cost me about $175... The thing is, at some point (especially with European cars) maintenance work costs will eventually surpass the car value.
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    21. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by Phixion View Post
      Not to hijack the thread, I'm about to do this job on my '04 2.5T real soon here. If I physically mark the cam gears AND crank sprocket as well as the belt at all marking points from the cam gears and crank sprocket, and then match those marks onto the new belt, I should be good as gold for timing, right?

      For Danno, sounds like you're doing good and getting it down. Just take it slow and like mentioned, double check things. Good luck!!
      Yes, you should be. Just make sure that the cam gears dont move, and rotate the crank by hand through 2 revs once you have the belt back on and tensioned and check marks.

    22. #20
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      maybe you could, but doing it that way you could also come up 180 deg off on your crank as the cams I believe make two complete revolutions for every one the crank makes.to be on compression stroke which means #1 piston will be all the way up (top dead center) this can be checked by pulling #1 spark plug an using long thin rod of some sort, make sure its longer the piston travel so you don't lose it.NOW with one hand on that rod so you can feel what piston is doing slowly rotate engine, you will feel travel of piston. as it moves upward, go slow, you will feel it come to the top of its travel and start back down...STOP.... now slowly go in other direction piston will come back to top. Close your eyes and gently go back and forth on the rotation , you will feel top of travel. Now look down at your crank timing mark it should be very close if not perfectly lined up for you. Now your half way there, its a matter of getting those cams where they need to be.

    23. #21
      Junior Member dannoman007's Avatar
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      Well at this point,have made several attempts to put everything on marks,cranked car and definetly sounds like bent valves...so now I'm in dismay,the belt is not installed,and I have given up..may be heading to scrap yard ,and the 8000$ I've invested rebuilding this thing is going out the window..haven't called around about a fix for it,but I'm afraid it not going to be something I can afford..
      Word of advice to anyone attempting this job,it may be worth your time and money to have an experienced tech do your work no matter what the cost,thanks for all your input,

    24. #22
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      wish i was in your area, would come by and give you a hand, really hope the valves have not been bent.

    25. #23
      Member jeg5263's Avatar
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      Bent valves aren't that expensive to buy but my guess is your not comfortable to replace them as it is a real pain as the whole head needs disassembled. Basically if you were to have someone fix it it would be comparable to the cost of a head gasket job.

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    26. #24
      Junior Member dannoman007's Avatar
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      Well,I'm,going to take the back of cams apart so I can actually see the alignment, may be a lost cause,but at this point have nothing to lose..called local indie Volvo repair,and they quoted 300-400 just to time it,if that's all it needs,I'm aghast at the 100$ an hour they charge for anything..I took car to them for oil change when I first bought this thing,and after oil change and the multipoint inspection they performed, they brought me a printout for 800$ + that they found wrong..now I've been a service writer at a motorcycle shop,so understand up selling ,but who is monitoring these people on the hourly rates they are charging?? Should a person,be taken advantage of every time they go to a service shop?.. I feel I made a mistake buying this car on a disability budget,I saw all the prior service records and felt it was a good,well maintained vehicle..I now know,this is a rich mans car,lots of stuff a normal person can do on it,but if a problem develops you can't tackle,your going to have more money involved in repairs than car is worth,and as with any thing mechanical, the older it gets the more you have to do..
      I don't know if I have it in me to mess with it anymore,was a great car for two years of having it,but has cost close to 3000$ to keep it in a decent state of repair. That's half of what I have to live on in a year,so maybe looking to get a bicycle,and figure how to get groceries home on these 6 lane roads I have to negotiate to get back and forth to the grocery store..sorry for the rant,I feel like I lost my best friend,in a way I have,as my car was my escape to new and different places...

    27. #25
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      Danny... though I am in the B'ham area, I am simply swamped and just cannot break free to lend a hand right now. I wish I could!

      If you remove the gear off the rear of the cams, you'll see the slot arrangement and be able to tell if you're close to being in the right position. Still, if it is starting and running, you cannot be very far off at all. The Guide I sent you shows the proper alignment orientation for the slots.
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    28. #26
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      Don't get down on yourself Danny.You can correct this thing.Be patient and read what Pete has said while you are doing it if that's possible.I seriously dought that the engine is damaged.You would have felt it when you turned it over by hand to double check your marks.Maybe a kind guy reading this has a cam lock tool you can use.I have the front sprocket lock tool that you can borrow but that is for engines that don't have vvt.It is yours to use if it helps ya.

    29. #27
      Junior Member dannoman007's Avatar
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      Well a day or two of rest has maybe put things in perspective.. Called autozone,the have the locking tool,at 80$ deposit,did not have the money before to rent the thing,guess I could of put off job till I did..this ocd is a bitch,and has got me in more than one bind..anyway,sold some stuff this a.m. and going to get back to it.
      Talked to another guy yesterday ,mechanic,he said oh sure I can do it,I say you have a can lock tool,he says nope,no say how much ? He says 300-400$ ,I say see ya..these f....ing mechanics are a bunch of damn theives,..he may or may not got it in time,he would call me up several weeks later,say couldn't do nothing with it,I would say what do I owe ya,and he would say oh...350$.. And your screwed..now that daffy duck trump is in there,wanting to deregulate everything,its gonna be a free for all..and how in the hell can someone working for min.wage survive let alone afford to drive a car??
      Here I go again,I'll quit before I really go on a tangent!!
      Thanks for encouragement guys..really appreciate!!!

    30. #28
      Junior Member dannoman007's Avatar
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      Update,
      Finally got timing where needs it be..the miss finally turned out to be a bad coil...
      Got all fixed..alls good..baby's back on the road...yea!!!!

    31. #29
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      Glad to hear its back on the road. Its funny thats what the issue was because i had the exact same thing happen a couple weeks ago. Changed the belt, ran fine at first then started to run like crap that same day. Wound up being bad coils

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    32. #30
      Junior Member dannoman007's Avatar
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      I hear ya!
      These coils are a weak link anyway...I had to back off from the timing issue for a day or two before I troubleshot the coils...
      Man I missed not having this thing on the road..16 hours of working on it to finally figure everything out...wew!!!

    33. #31
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      Really glad to hear the issue wasn't something caused by the timing. From what most of us here reading along could tell, we didn't think the timing messed anything up anyways. It's many of times the simplest things that put our cars down for the count for a moment. I need to look into my coils myself. Not sure when or if they've ever been replaced. I have new plugs though, well fairly new (replaced a month or two ago).
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    34. #32
      Member Shamak's Avatar
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      Glad to hear it was an easier fix than you thought.


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      1999 V70 XC; auto (5-spd conversion inbound), Sandstone Metallic: Borbet BS5 17s, H&R spacers, Koni Yellows, TME springs, Mishimoto FMIC, Custom 3" exhaust, cool air intake, ss brake lines. Coming soon: green injectors, K24, custom 3" DP, Brembo calipers, stage 3 tune
      1990 760; auto, Tokico HD Blues, Midir 18s, 25mm H&R spacers, cut springs

    35. #33
      I know this thread is old but I think I’m in the same situation as the op was in.

      So I’m doing a timing belt on an 06 S80, got a conti kit with Aisin pump from Rock Auto. Watched every YouTube video 10 times and read 1000 posts and replies across all different forums. Seemed pretty straight forward, friend told me to lock the cams but I didn’t, original job went okay but the belt kept walking to the back of the cam sprockets... reset the tensioner maybe 20 times.. figured that was where I made my mistake. Read it could be the belt.. it was shipped pretty poorly so put the old belt on, it started walking to the back of the cam pulleys. I did the CCW shuffle before every time I removed the belt to unload the VVT hubs but I felt the cam move the last time. I removed the rear cam sensors and reluctors to confirm sure enough cams are advanced.. ugh.. anybody want to help me move forward on this?

      How do I reset the cams can I just walk them back or do I need to go forward one full rotation? I’ll be researching this of course but if anybody could lend a hand that would be incredible.

      Crank is at TDC.. cams are 20-30 degrees advanced looking at the rear of the head, cam sprockets at at or within a few degrees of TDC... I’ve never been this buried by a repair/maintenance.. feeling very ill over it.

    36. #34
      Member Shamak's Avatar
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      I feel your pain. Mine went ok but I got lucky. Did you make all the markings to know where it all should line up? Can you provide pics?


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      2007 S60 T5; M66, Titanium Grey/Graphite: Midir 18s/Orpheus 17s, H&R Sport lowering springs, Koni Yellows, Brembo calipers, EBC slotted rotors, StopTech Street Performance pads, ss brake lines, H&R spacers, 80mm extended stud conversion, OBX catless DP, custom 3" exhaust, 4" stainless tip
      1999 V70 XC; auto (5-spd conversion inbound), Sandstone Metallic: Borbet BS5 17s, H&R spacers, Koni Yellows, TME springs, Mishimoto FMIC, Custom 3" exhaust, cool air intake, ss brake lines. Coming soon: green injectors, K24, custom 3" DP, Brembo calipers, stage 3 tune
      1990 760; auto, Tokico HD Blues, Midir 18s, 25mm H&R spacers, cut springs

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