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Chemical Dip and Ecoating
Can anyone recommend a reputable place that provides chemical dipping and ecoating? Preferably in the MidWest? I can't seem to find places that provide the services, though I find hundreds of posts about people that get it done (without references of where). I would prefer to find a one-stop-shop in Indianapolis (local) of course, but would be willing to take a weekend to deliver the car and another to pick it up, so anywhere from Kansas to Michigan to Pennsylvania to Georgia would be acceptable. Not willing to go "too far" (found a place in Oregon that looks ideal, but that's just TOO far).
Any suggestions or better personal experience?
Haven't started tearing in to the car yet, but I know it's going to need a lot of body work done, and I want to ensure I get to "the bottom" of all the existing rust, and then freeze the clean metal there with the ecoat.
Found this on-line, but they claim not for individuals? So who is the clientele? Might be worth a call https://www.musclecarrestorations.com/ecoat.html
These guys mention e-coat http://www.internationalpaintstripping.com/
Another candidate: http://www.americanmetalcleaninginc.com/services.html
Old list so cant vouch for who is still around. Maybe call and see if they do e-dip afterwards.
- Redi-Strip in Indianapolis IN, Roselle IL, Joliet IL, and Oak Creek WI;
- International Paint Stripping in Belleville MI;
- Kwik-Strip in Allentown PA;
- Metal Strip of New England in Worcester MA;
- Restoration Depot in Wauchula, FL;
- Pennsylvania Metal Cleaning in Monaca, PA.
I dipped a bugeye once using the local ready strip. Wont use it again for two reasons:
1-After dipping, the car is delivered in a water soluble rust inhibitor. This is so you can get it home and wash it with soap and water and watch it flash rust in front of your eyes. It's something to see after having spend that kind of money!
2- It takes the paint off places that you are never going to get paint back into, and since I think it leaves the metal in a more reactive state, it is going to want to rust from the inside out even faster than it did from the factory.
I did not have an issue with chemical hiding in seams until after the car was painted, but then again it took ten years to get the car done, so there was plenty of time for it to have crept out and affected the epoxy primer before paint.
Regardless of whether you dip the shell or not, I highly recommend the process for just about any other part of the car. Nuts and bolts come out looking like new, and if you do what I did where you restore and paint all the bits and bobs before doing the shell restoration, it is a pleasure to bolt on all the nice clean painted parts at the end.
Last edited by NOHOME; 08-14-2017 at 03:46 PM.
I have a "pleading" email in to Muscle Car Restorations, they seem to have the perfect setup. Their clientele is people that have their whole restoration done by them. I can see why they wouldn't bother taking on outside jobs if they are busy, which it seems they are. I have found old posts where they definitely used to take outside jobs, but if they are backed up by their own internal work now, they don't need to bother opening it up to losers like me : (
I've been to all the sites (that still exist) in the list you provided - been surfing on this topic for about a week now, and still haven't found a one stop shop open to "outsiders"...
And I don't want to ONLY dip, due to the reasons you mention. However, it seems to me that teaming up dipping with e-coating will prevent the "rot from the inside out" issue, as the ecoat will coat all the open areas that the dipping strips. Now, if the dip is poorly neutralized, that will certainly cause issues. And if you dip in one place and ecoat in another, all you will get is finger pointing if something goes awry (NOT something I want). My issue is that my car seems to have a lot of rust in hidden areas, including inside the framerails. Doing a soda or CO2 blasting is great for visible surfaces, but does nothing for overlapping joints, hidden areas, or insides of tubes. That's what interests me about doing a full dip...
I AM having a hell of a time finding a place to do e-coating, however. Seems I find tons of old posts and links to places that have gone out of business. The only one that keeps popping up is Muscle Car Restorations, and, well, we've already gone over them as a non- starter : (
I am happy to report that Muscle Car Restorations WILL accept my car... Setting up plans now, so should have a "tear-down" thread going up on my car soon. I know I am going to find some pretty scary stuff after the dip. I poked a screwdriver in to the driver side front frame rail, and was easily able to go through it. I then "peeled back" about 6" of the box section, and tons of rust fell out. There was also a skim coat of bondo on the frame rail... The passenger side is in much better shape. In addition, there is about 1/2" of bondo on the front passenger cowl area, and I suspect the whole front body sheetmetal has been bondo'd up, just not sure how thick (magnet DOES stick in some places, so some metal may be OK). Sill plates on both side have ZERO pull on a magnet, so those likely need full replacement (NOHOME, that's where my other post to you comes in - I may want to replace the front all together, so any advice you have would be appreciated!). Drivers front fender has a visible mostly vertical "line" in it about 14" long, I suspect a poorly executed panel patch job. There are rust holes in several places on the outside sheetmetal, 2-4 square inches each.
From rear of the doors back, the rear of the car looks to be in pretty good shape, except for some 1" rust through holes in both rear quarterpanels. The panels behind them look unrusted. Those don't seem to be "too bad" and do hold a magnet, so I hope these holes are "original" and no one has tried to hide things like they clearly did in the front. Both doors seem to be problem free. I removed the inner door panels, and the original paper was still taped to the openings in the sheetmetal on both sides. Someone had done some work on the passenger side, as the "porkchop" was missing and not all the screws were in place, but I didn't see any signs of damage or repair. All the rubber looks original, and it all needs replacement! There is a bit of surface rust at the bottom of the doors, but it doesn't look bad.
REALLY excited right now, and expect to take a few months to tear the car down due to busy work and travel schedule. I will start a new post with "in the beginning" photos and update it as my project progresses. I plan to keep it mostly stock, though I will be adding air conditioning (already sourced from Resto Mod Air). I am not concerned with keeping everything stock, this will NOT be a high end show car, but I do want a stock appearance from 10', so won't be doing any external body mods. Plan to keep the OEM stance and wheels as well - I bought a set of the hubcaps and decals that were last used on the '63 to replace the Moon Caps now on it (maybe get some nice wide whitewall tires too...).
Interior will also stay mostly stock. Nisonger Instruments will be getting all my gauges and the currently non-functional clock. Carpet was new when I got it, but not completely installed and fitted poorly. Seats are in great shape but need the padding refurbed. Not sure what to do on the radio - mine doesn't work. I want to keep an OEM look, but I will put a bluetooth hookup in so I can synch to my phone... Maybe one of the "modern" retro look radios, or if I can, get a P1800 radio and tap in to the outputs with the bluetooth inputs. I think I also saw a place that can "replace the guts" of the radio with something modern, so it stays looking OEM but is a new system? Need to find that link again...
Not sure what to do about the engine, transmission, and rear end... The car runs fine now, OD works. But there are a lot of leaks. I would think a rebuild will reduce leaks, but cars of this vintage leaked when new, so I don't expect to ever have it "drip free". I could just reinstall it all without any work, and then have it repaired if something comes up later - but since it will be sitting so long it seems to make sense to do a rebuild on them... Decisions, decisions....
Last edited by mcphill; 08-17-2017 at 03:53 PM.
Pardon me if you already know all this stuff, but it bear repeating for those that are reading along.
I've done several restorations, and every time I swear I will do a better job of documenting the tear down so that I can put it together exactly as it came apart. I have got much better with time and spend a LOT more time documenting than I did the first time, but you just cant be too detailed in this respect. If done properly you wont have so much as a single #10 lock-washer without a home when you are done. Good luck with that.
Consider leaving the dip and e-coat until after you are done the tin work. In the case of my bugeye, there was not much left of the nice clean-but-lacy tin that came out of the tank. And since every weld bead is a rust seam on the backside, there sill be a lot of it in places where you could not paint. Do be aware that dipping wont get the rust out of overlaping seams like where doorskins attach or any of the pinchwelds. I was kinda disappointed in that bit.
No need to ask for pardon's!
This is kind of "my first rodeo" of a "real" restoration, but I did do a huge teardown and motor swap on a 2001 Audi TT (put a 2012 TTRS 2.5 liter inline 5 in it, 225 crank HP to 430 wheel...). I bagged and tagged everything that time, but could have done a better job. I am a known "disaster area" creator, but I TOTALLY understand the value and properly documenting. As you can see at my Fotki, I overdue it with photos (this is pretty much my "build log" for that TT): http://public.fotki.com/mcphill/audi.../the-grey-car/ and timelapse videos with a GoPro are fun too watch too: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...s3LMVzEYW0emz1 .
So I PLAN to do a great job on the teardown and keeping everything in order... There will be many ziplock bags and tupperware boxes in the basement for a year!
I want to at least strip the car before I do the tinwork. There is TONS of Bondo in a few places, and I would rather know what I am up against from the get go, rather than think I am done and then pull a disaster out of the dip tank - that would be disheartening!!! Plus I have the option to say "screw it" after dipping the car, and let Muscle Car Restorations (MCR) do the tin for me if I decide I want to take that route.
I am on the fence about ecoat before or after tin... I don't want too much surface rust, and I expect it to take me 6-12 months to do the metal repair. If I ecoat first, then all the good stuff will stay pristine. I will need to strip off areas that I will work on. I will be talking to MCR to see what their recommendation is. Basically, as long as the car is fine without ecoat for a year in a garage (even if I need to put something on it every month to keep the protection going), then I will not ecoat until after tin work is done...
Not sure if you've decided on having the car dipped or not but here is my brief two cents: it's great, as long as the car lends itself to all chemicals being properly flushed. I saw a friend's Falcon that had been done and 3 years later, the bottom of the doors were bubbling from the stripping chemicals not being neutralized fully or not draining out. I had parts of my 4 door Amazon done in Kentucky (Metal Cleaners in Lexington) and it was a killer job with them coating the panels after they were done. Made my life easy as nothing flash rusted afterwards.
Originally Posted by mcphill
If you can, consider getting it blasted. Media/Sand blasting will get you the same results. A complete restoration will involve cutting and replacing panels that have rust. I had a car done here in Tucson and it made me swear I would never have a car dipped again. Cheaper, better and much easier to work with afterwards.
Thanks for your input. I have made my decision, and have put a deposit down to take a place in the queue for stripping and ecoating. The company that will do it does so for their own in-house restorations, they have 75 projects underway and deliver 15+ complete cars a year. If its good enough for them, it's going to suit me fine! Given their experience, I think they will do a good job, and they will do both the stripping and ecoat, so no "finger pointing" of one shop to another can occur... I disagree that you can get the same results with blasting. Stripping will strip rust or any other foreign substances from ANYWHERE on the car including far inside frame rails, between panels, etc. Blasting can only strip from places the media can reach. There is WAY too much "hidden rust" on my car for me to be satisfied with blasting only.
To quote NOHOME, "it's a collection of water traps flying in close formation". I plan to destroy that close formation!
The stripping process this company uses takes weeks, so I believe it will be properly neutralized prior to me going back to pick it up (after stripping). I will work on the car for months to repair the damage, it won't be coated or painted for quite a while (several months for sure). I plan to use Gibbs Lubricant on the stripped body to keep flash rusting down to a minimum. A professional car restoration friend of mine recommended Gibbs Lubricant to treat the stripped metal (I bought a 6-pack box), he uses it on his high end restorations. After I am done with metal repair, I will take it back to the same shop that did the stripping. They will treat it to remove any potential surface rust, and to ensure all surfaces are rust free and clean. They will then apply the ecoat in a full immersion tank. The car will then be ready for high build priming, sealing, smoothing the body, "lather, rinse, repeat" until satisfied, and then paint and clearcoat. Ecoat will coat EVERY possible surface of the entire car that water can get to, not just the surfaces paint can reach. Again, inside all the frame parts, between panels, between pinch welds, even. It will be a little costly, but not at all overkill for the time I will have invested in resurrecting the car, and less than half what the pain job will likely cost if I have it professionally done. To me, a "sound foundation" is worth the investment - I never want to see any rust "bubble up" from under the paint, and with the process I have planned, I am quite certain I (and the next owners over the next 48 years) never will.
Happy to discuss further, but as you can likely tell, I have made up my mind after extensive research and numerous conversations with experts in the field.
Is this the place you used? https://www.facebook.com/pages/Metal...54655098443?nr Only reviews there would scare me off, and no website?
Here is the place I will be using, a MUCH further drive for me, but again, that's peanuts in the overall scheme.
I am flying out to NY to get some sheetmetal with a 10 hour drive home. Not planning to skimp on any part of the build.
Illinois Chemical Stripping Company
I personally like Redi-Strip in Roselle, IL. They do a really great job at removing all kinds of stuff from car bodies and it's all relatively affordable. Here is their website: https://www.redistripco.com/
Originally Posted by mcphill
They also have a page just for their chemical dipping: https://www.redistripco.com/chemical-immersion/
I would check them out if you're still looking.