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    1. #36
      Quote Originally Posted by Papa_Kirlo View Post
      Well, a cell phone is not a car and ball bearing is not a cell phone...


      Point well taken. The Chinese suck at manufacturing. Cutting Corners, Safety Violations, Inferior Products, etc are par for the course in China. Anyway who argues differently is in denial. The U.S. even had Fake Processors from China integrated into our weapons arsenal. Was a big story few years back.

      Volvo can swing the story any way it sees fit. However, made in China is not going to help sell the brand. Period.

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    3. #37
      Member matt1122's Avatar
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      The problem is they were fake processors, not that they were made in China. Some of the highest performing microprocessors in the world are manufactured there. Intel even has manufacturing plants in Chengdu, the same city where the S60L (Inscription) is made.
      Last edited by matt1122; 09-02-2017 at 05:54 PM. Reason: Mixed up my plants.
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    4. #38
      Quote Originally Posted by matt1122 View Post
      The problem is they were fake processors, not that they were made in China. Some of the highest performing microprocessors in the world are manufactured there. Intel even has manufacturing plants in Chengdu, the same city where the S60L (Inscription) is made.
      Along the same lines. What's to stop knock off parts from entering the Volvo Supply Chain? Unless Volvo manufacturers every part, there's a great potential for fakes to be installed into Volvo Vehicles. And even if Volvo Manufactures each part in a Single Company, Chinese Companies have spotty track records.

      Those microprocessor were knock offs and fakes. However, I'm not sure if the government meant for China to be the supplier or if the supply got co-mingled with Chinese made goods.

      Ultimately, Volvo has going to have to play hover parent and ensure that all parts meet a standard. From the steel acquired to the smallest detail. Otherwise,Volvo might end up like Saab.

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    6. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      Along the same lines. What's to stop knock off parts from entering the Volvo Supply Chain? Unless Volvo manufacturers every part, there's a great potential for fakes to be installed into Volvo Vehicles. And even if Volvo Manufactures each part in a Single Company, Chinese Companies have spotty track records.

      Those microprocessor were knock offs and fakes. However, I'm not sure if the government meant for China to be the supplier or if the supply got co-mingled with Chinese made goods.

      Ultimately, Volvo has going to have to play hover parent and ensure that all parts meet a standard. From the steel acquired to the smallest detail. Otherwise,Volvo might end up like Saab.
      Why can't the same logic be applied to to everything made in every country? If you think that US manufacturers don't cut corner, you're misinformed. I could easily show poorly made bearings or whatever made in any country you choose.

      The bottom line, as I pointed out with iPhones, is that very high quality consumer products are made in China. I see no reason that high quality cars can't be made there as well.

    7. #40
      Quote Originally Posted by murrays View Post
      Why can't the same logic be applied to to everything made in every country? If you think that US manufacturers don't cut corner, you're misinformed. I could easily show poorly made bearings or whatever made in any country you choose.

      The bottom line, as I pointed out with iPhones, is that very high quality consumer products are made in China. I see no reason that high quality cars can't be made there as well.
      The difference? If an American Company cuts corners and people get hurt, there are multi million dollar lawsuits filed. So it's in a company's best interest to at least make an acceptable product. Otherwise, the ambulance chasers will come a knockin'.

      In China, what's your recourse? Not a damn thing. And even worse, China is WIDELY known for making FAKES. American Companies ARE NOT. Why? Because Said company would be sued and shut down. The closest we come to a "fake" is a generic version. But American companies don't pass off a generic as being a the same item as the name brand. The same cannot be said for China.

    8. #41
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      The difference? If an American Company cuts corners and people get hurt, there are multi million dollar lawsuits filed. So it's in a company's best interest to at least make an acceptable product. Otherwise, the ambulance chasers will come a knockin'.

      In China, what's your recourse? Not a damn thing. And even worse, China is WIDELY known for making FAKES. American Companies ARE NOT. Why? Because Said company would be sued and shut down. The closest we come to a "fake" is a generic version. But American companies don't pass off a generic as being a the same item as the name brand. The same cannot be said for China.
      Yep, look at all those bogus iPhones with "fake" components flowing into our country...or not.{shrug}

    9. #42
      Member matt1122's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      The difference? If an American Company cuts corners and people get hurt, there are multi million dollar lawsuits filed. So it's in a company's best interest to at least make an acceptable product. Otherwise, the ambulance chasers will come a knockin'.

      In China, what's your recourse? Not a damn thing. And even worse, China is WIDELY known for making FAKES. American Companies ARE NOT. Why? Because Said company would be sued and shut down. The closest we come to a "fake" is a generic version. But American companies don't pass off a generic as being a the same item as the name brand. The same cannot be said for China.
      You're very confused if you think Volvo cars sold in the US aren't subject to the same potential lawsuits. Volvo is not some Chinese-domiciled small business with no assets or insurance against which the courts can provide no recourse.

      Think about the VWAG diesel scandal, for example. Foreign company operating on American soil was completely subject to action by regulatory commissions here in the US. And that's just about emissions figures.

      Honestly, you are not thinking this through and are just rushing to stick to your guns and hold your position.

      And this is a perfect example of how "made in China" can hurt Volvo. Because many Americans are ignorant and think they are far better informed than they are.
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    10. #43
      Quote Originally Posted by murrays View Post
      Yep, look at all those bogus iPhones with "fake" components flowing into our country...or not.{shrug}
      That's because IPhones aren't necessarily made in China......https://www.lifewire.com/where-is-th...e-made-1999503

      Manufacturing of components is a global endeavor, with assembly occuring in Taiwan (Now China, Formerly British Territory).

    11. #44
      Quote Originally Posted by matt1122 View Post
      You're very confused if you think Volvo cars sold in the US aren't subject to the same potential lawsuits. Volvo is not some Chinese-domiciled small business with no assets or insurance against which the courts can provide no recourse.

      Think about the VWAG diesel scandal, for example. Foreign company operating on American soil was completely subject to action by regulatory commissions here in the US. And that's just about emissions figures.

      Honestly, you are not thinking this through and are just rushing to stick to your guns and hold your position.

      And this is a perfect example of how "made in China" can hurt Volvo. Because many Americans are ignorant and think they are far better informed than they are.
      You're confusing two separate issues. Doing business and being Located. If you are a Chinese based company manufacturing fake components, and these components end up in American Products being sold by X i.e. "Volvo", Volvo is ultimately liable. You are never going to collect a dime from the Chinese based company manufacturing fakes.

      Therefore, you're stuck going down the food chain until you get to the company that utilized the fakes and has assets in a country friendly to American Courts. So yes, It's in Volvo's best interest to keep the supply line reputable. But as we saw with the American Government being duped by fake processors in Military equipment, China doesn't make things easy.

    12. #45
      Global Moderator GrecianVolvo's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by matt1122 View Post

      And this is a perfect example of how "made in China" can hurt Volvo. Because many Americans are ignorant and think they are far better informed than they are.
      Not only ignorant but also willfully ignorant because of political/ideological reasons.

      Poor quality has plagued many U.S. plants (for domestic and European manufacturers) but mum is the word on these.

      Volvo's plants build cars under the same guidelines as in the Swedish and Belgian plants and, so far, the products coming out of Volvo's China plants support this. Volvo pioneered the production and export of luxury cars from China to the U.S. and others will also follow suit. People need to get used to that idea and the ever expanding global production and distribution.
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    13. #46
      Quote Originally Posted by GrecianVolvo View Post
      Not only ignorant but also willfully ignorant because of political/ideological reasons.

      Poor quality has plagued many U.S. plants (for domestic and European manufacturers) but mum is the word on these.

      Volvo's plants build cars under the same guidelines as in the Swedish and Belgian plants and, so far, the products coming out of Volvo's China plants support this. Volvo pioneered the production and export of luxury cars from China to the U.S. and others will also follow suit. People need to get used to that idea and the ever expanding global production and distribution.
      There's nothing wrong with Globalization. The problem is that China's reputation is fraught with problems. Volvo might have the best safety protocols in place. But that means very little. China has and is known for cutting corners, knock offs, etc.

      Think of the Takata fiasco (Japanese Company).

      In June 2014, Takata admitted their Mexican subsidiary had mishandled the manufacture of explosive propellants and improperly stored chemicals used in airbags. Identifying vehicles with defective airbags was made more difficult by the failure of TK Holdings Inc. to keep proper quality control records. That prompted another round of recalls in June 2013.

      So even though Takata had Standards, one of their manufacturers in Mexico failed to adhere to protocol. Costing Takata it's reputation and ultimately leading to bankruptcy. And now several car manufacturers are embroiled in lawsuits over the fiasco.

      Look at the mass amounts of companies who have their reputation shamed because of Chinese Business Practices.

      http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchin...t_18220914.htm
      https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001...86243116644826

    14. #47
      Global Moderator GrecianVolvo's Avatar
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      Your post solidifies (for the most part) my argument.

      Other than that, it's not that "China" is fraught with problems. Certain Chinese companies (which, by the way, make products for American companies but I digress) have produced inferior products much like the rest of the world does. Do you want me to tell you about U.S. appliances that are pure junk (some to the point of being dangerous)?

      Every Volvo assembled in one of the China plants has absolutely nothing to do with China or any of the companies building bad products. All plants are run by Volvo Car Group, not China, not the U.S., not any other country.

      Volvo designed, built and operates its assembly plants in ALL countries, be it China, Sweden, Belgium and (very soon) the U.S.

      The robots running all plants speak no languages. The people working at all plants follow ONE and only ONE process; the one put together by Volvo. Nothing more and nothing less.
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    15. #48
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      Zhejiang Geely is a Chinese company formed in 1986. They produce cars which are sold in New Zealand and are not well regarded.
      Geely purchased Volvo and retained the name factory and headquarters.They picked up Volvo Malaysia which has been building Volvos since the 1960s. They also own London taxis and have picked up Lotus in the recent past.
      Although the brand trades on its European connection you need to dig far deeper to understand where manufactured.Until now I have relied on country of manufacture. So my Volvo was built in Gothenburg and I have had Fords built in Germany jaguars built in Britain and jeeps built in Ohio.
      Many cars sold here in NZ as European are built IN Asia or South Africa.
      I have recently realised however that many of the parts in a car are not from the country of manufacture. Some countries have a statement requirement that a certain percentage is from the country of manufacture.The ones I have seen are generally for less than half the car!
      Some cars from China have a fantastic reputation here such as LDV vans or Hyundai from Korea.
      In short the Country of manufacture is irrelevant to quality. The parts that go in to the car are critical( particularly electronics)
      Until someone gives us this breakdown we are in real trouble as an early adopter.I think this is the last time I will pay a premium for a car based on its luxury status.


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    16. #49
      Quote Originally Posted by GrecianVolvo View Post
      Your post solidifies (for the most part) my argument.

      Other than that, it's not that "China" is fraught with problems. Certain Chinese companies (which, by the way, make products for American companies but I digress) have produced inferior products much like the rest of the world does. Do you want me to tell you about U.S. appliances that are pure junk (some to the point of being dangerous)?

      Every Volvo assembled in one of the China plants has absolutely nothing to do with China or any of the companies building bad products. All plants are run by Volvo Car Group, not China, not the U.S., not any other country.

      Volvo designed, built and operates its assembly plants in ALL countries, be it China, Sweden, Belgium and (very soon) the U.S.

      The robots running all plants speak no languages. The people working at all plants follow ONE and only ONE process; the one put together by Volvo. Nothing more and nothing less.
      My post proves nothing of the point you make, except that globalization has endangered the reputations of multi national corporations. Because products are made around the world, even if to a designated spec, shortcuts can be taken. Takata fell victim to Mexico. Causing the whole brand to collapse upon itself.

      While Takata is the exception, China is not. China has and continues to be known for inferior products. So unless Volvo knows the source of every part, inspects these parts for quality control, and maintains constant rigor, the brand is in jeopardy. Again, one chink in the chain brought down Takata.

      All it takes is one major screw up from Volvo's supplier....And with China's history.....Well, that's putting a lot of faith where I wouldn't dare venture. period.

    17. #50
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      The safety risks of using ammonium nitrate in airbags were known by several companies in the auto industry well before Takata's Mexican factory mishandling of components.

      Here's one news article out many that are out there on the topic:

      https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/b...s.html?mcubz=1

    18. #51
      Quote Originally Posted by Makinen5 View Post
      The safety risks of using ammonium nitrate in airbags were known by several companies in the auto industry well before Takata's Mexican factory mishandling of components.

      Here's one news article out many that are out there on the topic:

      https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/b...s.html?mcubz=1
      Interesting. Seems the auto manufacturers were complicit, too. Gives credence to save a few bucks in the short term, only to spend big bucks in the long run. I.E. Recalls, lawsuits, etc.

    19. #52
      Global Moderator GrecianVolvo's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      My post proves nothing of the point you make, except that globalization has endangered the reputations of multi national corporations. Because products are made around the world, even if to a designated spec, shortcuts can be taken. Takata fell victim to Mexico. Causing the whole brand to collapse upon itself.

      While Takata is the exception, China is not. China has and continues to be known for inferior products. So unless Volvo knows the source of every part, inspects these parts for quality control, and maintains constant rigor, the brand is in jeopardy. Again, one chink in the chain brought down Takata.

      All it takes is one major screw up from Volvo's supplier....And with China's history.....Well, that's putting a lot of faith where I wouldn't dare venture. period.
      So, now, the brand is in jeopardy! Nice.

      Please hang on to your doomsday scenarios and let us know how they look a couple of years from now. I have been answering similar comments since 2010 but those people, conveniently, choose to not address their doomsday comments, as each year makes the Volvo brand stronger.

      Parts failures can happen (and will happen) no matter what the country of origin is. Curiously enough, in the past few years, most of the failures (and shameless cheating) have come from the Western world where manufacturing technology is "the best"...

      If you think Volvo's $11 BILLION investment is not shepherded enough, what can I say? The Swedes must be "clueless".
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    20. #53
      Quote Originally Posted by GrecianVolvo View Post
      So, now, the brand is in jeopardy! Nice.

      Please hang on to your doomsday scenarios and let us know how they look a couple of years from now. I have been answering similar comments since 2010 but those people, conveniently, choose to not address their doomsday comments, as each year makes the Volvo brand stronger.

      Parts failures can happen (and will happen) no matter what the country of origin is. Curiously enough, in the past few years, most of the failures (and shameless cheating) have come from the Western world where manufacturing technology is "the best"...

      If you think Volvo's $11 BILLION investment is not shepherded enough, what can I say? The Swedes must be "clueless".
      Brands have and Do fail. Whether though mismanagement, miscalculations, failure to properly invest in new technology, etc. Saab, Pontiac, Mercury, Saturn, etc. And let's not forget the Obama BailOuts of GM. Yep. I'm a doomday person....Because Car manufacturers have never failed in recent times.......

      O and a reminder.. Volvo has two businesses. A consumer side which moves less than 100,000 cars in the U.S (Less than 1% market share) per year. And a retail side manufacturing trucks.....So it's not like Volvo is deeply entrenched in the American Psyche. We're all "outliers" dedicated to a niche brand.

      Don't get me wrong. I love my Volvo. It's a great car. Needs a bandaid after getting backed into to the tune of at lest $1,000..But a great car....I care about safety. But most Americans do not. Sporty sells, safety comes in a far off second or third?

    21. #54
      Junior Member Jimrod's Avatar
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      I don't know how it is in America but here in the UK all the customer satisfaction surveys place the big German "premium" manufacturers at or near the bottom for reliability. I had a 2010 Scirocco (essentially a Golf GTi) with injector failure at 17k miles. But that doesn't stop people thinking they're the best - mainly due to press saying so (despite their own surveys!), I've seen countless reviews which mark a NEW French car down for reliability and give 5-Stars to a VW despite the actual figures saying the opposite. Comes down to advertising money as much as anything... So I fully expect Volvo to remain as good as anyone else for reliability really, Geely invested a hell of a lot to just trash it if that was their intention, I can't see it.

    22. #55
      Member matt1122's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      You're confusing two separate issues. Doing business and being Located. If you are a Chinese based company manufacturing fake components, and these components end up in American Products being sold by X i.e. "Volvo", Volvo is ultimately liable. You are never going to collect a dime from the Chinese based company manufacturing fakes.
      No. They're not separate issues. As you even said, Volvo has a tremendous interest in performing quality control measures that keep this from happening.


      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      The problem is that China's reputation is fraught with problems. Volvo might have the best safety protocols in place. But that means very little.
      That means very little to people like you who stick to their prejudiced opinions and are too closed minded to recognize when they're spreading fear and ignorance under the pretense of fair judgement of a group of people for their actions.

      If what you were saying is true, Apple, Intel, Cisco, which are all companies with very reliable and top quality products, would not be outsourcing manufacturing there.


      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      Think of the Takata fiasco (Japanese Company).
      Okay, or the Ford Cruise Control fire fiasco. Where were those components manufactured? How about the GM suspension issues int he early 80's? Or GM or Ford's ignition fire issues in the past few decades? Or the GM engine mounts in the 70's that caused the cars to lose control of the accelerator and crash uncontrollably? Or the Ford's rolling away in the 80s?
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    23. #56
      Quote Originally Posted by matt1122 View Post
      No. They're not separate issues. As you even said, Volvo has a tremendous interest in performing quality control measures that keep this from happening.
      From a liability standpoint, these are separate issues. 1. Chinese Company Makes Inferior Goods. 2. Volvo Uses Inferior Goods. It's up to Volvo to maintain the rigor of quality components. If a knock off component enters the supply chain, Volvo will be the party sued. Going after a Chinese Company for liability is a wild goose chase.

      It is in Volvo's interest to select a quality supply chain. So long as it vets the companies properly, and inspects components regularly, then Volvo should be fine. However, my opinion of China is not based on bias. China is still widely known for fake goods. So Volvo runs a greater risk of getting duped in China with inferior parts than elsewhere in the world. Will it happen? I hope not.

      Quote Originally Posted by matt1122 View Post
      That means very little to people like you who stick to their prejudiced opinions and are too closed minded to recognize when they're spreading fear and ignorance under the pretense of fair judgement of a group of people for their actions.
      No prejudice. An opinion rooted in Fact:

      Chinese raid captures counterfeit car parts destined for Australia

      1. https://www.fcai.com.au/news/index/index/article/444
      2. https://www.motoring.com.au/half-a-m...seized-105492/

      Quote Originally Posted by matt1122 View Post
      If what you were saying is true, Apple, Intel, Cisco, which are all companies with very reliable and top quality products, would not be outsourcing manufacturing there.
      IPhones are built of components from around the world and assembled in Taiwan.

      Chinese Scammers Fool Apple Into Supplying Genuine Parts For Fake iPhones

      Also, already Happened. See Article: https://www.cultofmac.com/223418/chi...-fake-iphones/

      Watch out for iPhones 'refurbished' with counterfeit parts – because it's apparently a thing now

      https://www.phonearena.com/news/Watc...ng-now_id93229

      Quote Originally Posted by matt1122 View Post
      Okay, or the Ford Cruise Control fire fiasco. Where were those components manufactured? How about the GM suspension issues int he early 80's? Or GM or Ford's ignition fire issues in the past few decades? Or the GM engine mounts in the 70's that caused the cars to lose control of the accelerator and crash uncontrollably? Or the Ford's rolling away in the 80s?

      Much of this happened in an era before strong regulations were in place. And after these events, all named companies were party to multi million / billion dollar lawsuits.
      Last edited by MyVolvoS60; 09-04-2017 at 12:23 PM.

    24. #57
      Junior Member event's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      From a liability standpoint, these are separate issues. 1. Chinese Company Makes Inferior Goods. 2. Volvo Uses Inferior Goods. It's up to Volvo to maintain the rigor of quality components. If a knock off component enters the supply chain, Volvo will be the party sued. Going after a Chinese Company for liability is a wild goose chase.

      It is in Volvo's interest to select a quality supply chain. So long as it vets the companies properly, and inspects components regularly, then Volvo should be fine. However, my opinion of China is not based on bias. China is still widely known for fake goods. So Volvo runs a greater risk of getting duped in China with inferior parts than elsewhere in the world. Will it happen? I hope not.



      No prejudice. An opinion rooted in Fact:

      Chinese raid captures counterfeit car parts destined for Australia

      1. https://www.fcai.com.au/news/index/index/article/444
      2. https://www.motoring.com.au/half-a-m...seized-105492/



      IPhones are built of components from around the world and assembled in Taiwan.

      Chinese Scammers Fool Apple Into Supplying Genuine Parts For Fake iPhones

      Also, already Happened. See Article: https://www.cultofmac.com/223418/chi...-fake-iphones/

      Watch out for iPhones 'refurbished' with counterfeit parts – because it's apparently a thing now

      https://www.phonearena.com/news/Watc...ng-now_id93229




      Much of this happened in an era before strong regulations were in place. And after these events, all named companies were party to multi million / billion dollar lawsuits.
      The difference you don't seem to be noticing is that the examples of counterfeit goods you mentioned is that they are targeted at the consumer. Consumers are gullible and easy to fool. Just because it's in a box with a label that looks like genuine doesn't mean its genuine. Automotive OEMs use PPAP (Production Part Approval Process) and PSWs (Part Submission Warrants) to track the pedigree of every single part entering the plant. It's much harder to fool Volvo than it is the consumer. The money for these counterfeiters isn't in selling thousands of counterfeit $3 bearings or $10 sensors. It's in selling directly to consumers for a lot more. It doesn't make sense for a counterfeiter to build injection molds to try to trick Volvo into buying their parts. You should know that the VAST majority of Chinese people are honest citizens trying to make a living. There is organized crime, disorganized crime, and counterfeiting operations all over the world.

    25. #58
      Quote Originally Posted by event View Post
      The difference you don't seem to be noticing is that the examples of counterfeit goods you mentioned is that they are targeted at the consumer. Consumers are gullible and easy to fool. Just because it's in a box with a label that looks like genuine doesn't mean its genuine. Automotive OEMs use PPAP (Production Part Approval Process) and PSWs (Part Submission Warrants) to track the pedigree of every single part entering the plant. It's much harder to fool Volvo than it is the consumer. The money for these counterfeiters isn't in selling thousands of counterfeit $3 bearings or $10 sensors. It's in selling directly to consumers for a lot more. It doesn't make sense for a counterfeiter to build injection molds to try to trick Volvo into buying their parts. You should know that the VAST majority of Chinese people are honest citizens trying to make a living. There is organized crime, disorganized crime, and counterfeiting operations all over the world.
      While most Chinese are hard working, good people, that doesn't negate the fact a problem exists. Think of it like "terrorism". Most Muslim aren't terrorists and despise groups like ISIS. However, there are places in the world I can travel where the chances of extremism increases. The chances of me walking out my door and falling victim to terrorists is very slight in the USA. Yes, it's happened, but it is a very rare occurrence.

      Now, if I travel to Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, those chances increase exponentially. Why? Because terrorists are known to be there and these are war zones.

      MY POINT? While most Chinese are good people, Chinese is known to be the hub for counterfeits. Individual Consumers get duped, Companies get duped (Apple supplying parts for Fake I-Phones), and governments get Duped (Counterfeit Processors installed in American Military Equipment).

      To Deny that China has a problem is equal to saying that Syria is a nice, peaceful place to live. Sure, there are "GOOD" areas that have escaped the war (Coast), but that's the exception and not the rule.

      China has and remains the top producer for counterfeit goods. These activities hurt companies, can lead to loss of lives, and often make their way into every day supply chains. So to pretend that Volvo or ANY company isn't at risk is nonsense.

      These ideas aren't rooted in prejudice but facts.

      http://www.businessinsider.com/the-w...r=US&IR=T&IR=T

      The value of imported fake goods worldwide stood at $461bn (£325bn) in 2013, 2.5 per cent of the total imports in world trade of $17.9 trillion.

      The report found that most of the counterfeits originate in middle income or emerging countries, with China the top producer accounting for a whopping 63.2 per cent of customs seizures between 2011 and 2013.

    26. #59
      Member matt1122's Avatar
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      I'm sorry, but you are literally engaging in strict prejudice. Volvo has done nothing to indicate anyone should have any reason to doubt the quality of its vehicles being manufactured in any one place would be any worse than the quality of those being manufactured in Sweden. You (or the hypothetical people whose opinions are weighted by manufacturing location if that's not you) are taking a stereotype of the Chinese manufacturing industry and applying it to a company that has never once indicated you should expect that stereotypical behavior of it.
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    27. #60
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      Lol this thread is so amusing. Never change Swedespeed. Never change.
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    28. #61
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      Parts failures can happen (and will happen) no matter what the country of origin is. Curiously enough, in the past few years, most of the failures (and shameless cheating) have come from the Western world where manufacturing technology is "the best"...
      I mentioned earlier in this thread the $3,500 it cost me to replace the IMS bearing in our Porsche (pre-emptively, not because it had failed). That was a potential failure avoided because some gentlemen in white shopcoats in Stuttgart chose to use a GM alternator bearing, assumedly for cost reasons, to support one end of the large, crucial shaft between the crank and the cams.

    29. #62
      Quote Originally Posted by matt1122 View Post
      I'm sorry, but you are literally engaging in strict prejudice. Volvo has done nothing to indicate anyone should have any reason to doubt the quality of its vehicles being manufactured in any one place would be any worse than the quality of those being manufactured in Sweden. You (or the hypothetical people whose opinions are weighted by manufacturing location if that's not you) are taking a stereotype of the Chinese manufacturing industry and applying it to a company that has never once indicated you should expect that stereotypical behavior of it.
      Prejudices are rooted in hyperbole. China's reputation is neither hyperbole nor unfounded. It's a proven fact China is the #1 producer of counterfeit goods. It's a proven fact that China is the top producer accounting for a whopping 63.2 per cent of customs seizures between 2011 and 2013.

      So companies doing business in China are at risk of falling victim to China's illicit markets. Again, I hope Volvo maintains rigor and avoids these pitfalls. But to deny that China has lax standards is nothing short of denial. I.E. Apple, The U.S. Government, etc have all fallen victim.

    30. #63
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      i did my master thesis regarding Volvo quality assurance.
      At which university do they call it a "master thesis"?

    31. #64
      Member matt1122's Avatar
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      Better watch out for counterfeit Volvo cars folks. Bolbo will be a real brand before you know it.
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    32. #65
      Quote Originally Posted by matt1122 View Post
      Better watch out for counterfeit Volvo cars folks. Bolbo will be a real brand before you know it.
      Now you're being ridiculous. No one is arguing that China will make a "Counterfeit Clone" of Volvo. But that counterfeit parts remain a risk.

    33. #66
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      Quote Originally Posted by stepwilk View Post
      At which university do they call it a "master thesis"?
      One of my kids just finished his MS in Computer Engineering, and a thesis was required, took a year to complete and was reviewed by a team of professors for approval. So I think that's what this person is referring to??....a master's thesis maybe?

      I'm enjoying reading this thread, just have a few comments to make:

      We're on our 7th Volvo wagon since 1988, and we've never bought a Volvo for quality.
      We buy it because in an accident the other guy dies (at least on the older models), plus we like wagons and hate SUV's, and we perceive the safety to be superior (maybe marketing?)
      Our Volvo's have had crazy electrical gremlins over the years.....if we wanted everything to work properly, or get high mileage, we'd buy a Toyota but that would be totally boring. Our Volvo's have been totally funky, my wife loves them.
      Our newest V90CC is so incredibly superior to anything we've ever seen from Volvo, that it's almost impossible to believe that this car comes from the same company. It's not just a gradual design improvement, this is a gigantic leap.

      Bottom line, it appears that Volvo would no longer be in existence without the new investment from China. So I'm not sure the arguments are worthwhile, it's over and done, and appears wildly successful so far.
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    34. #67
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      The difference? If an American Company cuts corners and people get hurt, there are multi million dollar lawsuits filed. So it's in a company's best interest to at least make an acceptable product. Otherwise, the ambulance chasers will come a knockin'.

      In China, what's your recourse? Not a damn thing. And even worse, China is WIDELY known for making FAKES. American Companies ARE NOT. Why? Because Said company would be sued and shut down. The closest we come to a "fake" is a generic version. But American companies don't pass off a generic as being a the same item as the name brand. The same cannot be said for China.
      Actually AFAIK in China if someone cuts corners and there is a safety hazard as a result punishment is extremely harsh, could even lead to the execution of the people involved..

    35. #68
      Quote Originally Posted by volvocu View Post
      Actually AFAIK in China if someone cuts corners and there is a safety hazard as a result punishment is extremely harsh, could even lead to the execution of the people involved..
      From everything I've seen and read, and I AM NOT an expert, the punishment depends upon if the violation harms foreigners or Chinese. Seems if it only affects the Chinese, then the punishment is light. Then again, with all the corruption, the risk of prosecution must be outweighed by the financial gains. Even if foreigners are involved.

      China has executed billionaires. So people do get caught. But often, those punished seem to run amok of the political elite.

    36. #69
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      a master's thesis maybe?
      You got it.

    37. #70
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      Quote Originally Posted by Surf NH View Post
      Our newest V90CC is so incredibly superior to anything we've ever seen from Volvo, that it's almost impossible to believe that this car comes from the same company. It's not just a gradual design improvement, this is a gigantic leap.

      Bottom line, it appears that Volvo would no longer be in existence without the new investment from China. So I'm not sure the arguments are worthwhile, it's over and done, and appears wildly successful so far.
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