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    1. #1
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      What do you do when they say they can't fix it? Anyone have experience with Lemon Laws?

      I am on my fifth Volvo loaner. The dealer has finally identified the problem with my car after four attempts. That's the good news. The problem is the fix is purely software related and there is not software available "yet" to fix my car. They are apparently coding it up in Sweden but no one knows when it will be released. My car has been in and out of the shop for 30+ days in the past 2 months. I bought the 2017 Inscription this past summer, new, approx 72k. No one knows when the software will be available to fix my vehicle. That said, they told me to come pick it up today or tomorrow. I have been nice, they have been nice. No one is being unprofessional. I even offered them a case of wine if they could fix it. What to do? Is employing the lemon law practical, or is it one long waste of legal funds? Does working directly with the dealer or Volvo corporate ever really yield success? If you have any experience with Volvo or any other manufacturer on this type of issue please let me know. I don't want my new full time job to be arguing over a car. Best case, I write Volvo corporate and they offer a refund or swap for a car that works but from what I understand, there are so many software issues that I can't imagine they would make the former a remote possibility. I can only imagine how bad the CarFax report is going to look should I try and eat it on a trade as well. This was my fear with any vehicle with so much code behind it, mechanics can't fix it, just software developers. Trying to keep my cool, but any experience with any car as it relates to unfix-able issues as communicated by the dealer would be helpful.

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    3. #2
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      What do you do when they say they can't fix it? Anyone have experience with Lemon Laws?

      PM me, I went through a similar situation. I received full compensation, a replacement vehicle better then mine, and worked with volvo.


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    4. #3
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      What is the problem exactly. I heard most major software problems are solved. Maybe time to change to another dealer
      2017/XC90/Osmium Grey T8 Inscription no B&W, no child pakket, no seat pakket and no Air suspension

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      why refund/buyback is not an option to you? This car doesn't deserve to be lemoned. Once they have the fix it will run just fine.

      By the way, what is the issue? If it is software problem it will happen on other XC90 with same configuration as yours too.

    7. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mavi57 View Post
      What is the problem exactly. I heard most major software problems are solved. Maybe time to change to another dealer
      The dealer has been working hard to fix the issue. They were told by Volvo themselves that they are aware of the problem, it is a software bug and there is not yet a fix as it is a programming issue. So it is out of the dealer's control. Why can't they format the drive and do a 2018 fresh install? No updates, no upgrades, no patches, just a full wipe and install?

    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by goVolvo View Post
      why refund/buyback is not an option to you? This car doesn't deserve to be lemoned. Once they have the fix it will run just fine.

      By the way, what is the issue? If it is software problem it will happen on other XC90 with same configuration as yours too.
      I don't think I am understanding your response. Are you saying that since one day in the future it could work and even though it has a material flaw without a solution today or an estimate of when it could be solved, that I should be pleased with the performance of the vehicle and not pursue a claim? I don't understand your logic.

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      Quote Originally Posted by christiansin View Post
      I don't think I am understanding your response. Are you saying that since one day in the future it could work and even though it has a material flaw without a solution today or an estimate of when it could be solved, that I should be pleased with the performance of the vehicle and not pursue a claim? I don't understand your logic.
      You are offered refund/buyback, not good enough? en...

    10. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by goVolvo View Post
      You are offered refund/buyback, not good enough? en...
      They did not offer a refund. They did not offer a buyback. They did not offer a trade. Again, what are you saying, your communication is so strange.

    11. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by christiansin View Post
      I am on my fifth Volvo loaner. The dealer has finally identified the problem with my car after four attempts. That's the good news. The problem is the fix is purely software related and there is not software available "yet" to fix my car. They are apparently coding it up in Sweden but no one knows when it will be released. My car has been in and out of the shop for 30+ days in the past 2 months. I bought the 2017 Inscription this past summer, new, approx 72k. No one knows when the software will be available to fix my vehicle. That said, they told me to come pick it up today or tomorrow. I have been nice, they have been nice. No one is being unprofessional. I even offered them a case of wine if they could fix it. What to do? Is employing the lemon law practical, or is it one long waste of legal funds? Does working directly with the dealer or Volvo corporate ever really yield success? If you have any experience with Volvo or any other manufacturer on this type of issue please let me know. I don't want my new full time job to be arguing over a car. Best case, I write Volvo corporate and they offer a refund or swap for a car that works but from what I understand, there are so many software issues that I can't imagine they would make the former a remote possibility. I can only imagine how bad the CarFax report is going to look should I try and eat it on a trade as well. This was my fear with any vehicle with so much code behind it, mechanics can't fix it, just software developers. Trying to keep my cool, but any experience with any car as it relates to unfix-able issues as communicated by the dealer would be helpful.
      What problem are you referring to? Is this your A/C issue, the seat lumbar, or something else?

    12. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by christiansin View Post
      I am on my fifth Volvo loaner. The dealer has finally identified the problem with my car after four attempts. That's the good news. The problem is the fix is purely software related and there is not software available "yet" to fix my car. They are apparently coding it up in Sweden but no one knows when it will be released. My car has been in and out of the shop for 30+ days in the past 2 months. I bought the 2017 Inscription this past summer, new, approx 72k. No one knows when the software will be available to fix my vehicle. That said, they told me to come pick it up today or tomorrow. I have been nice, they have been nice. No one is being unprofessional. I even offered them a case of wine if they could fix it. What to do? Is employing the lemon law practical, or is it one long waste of legal funds? Does working directly with the dealer or Volvo corporate ever really yield success? If you have any experience with Volvo or any other manufacturer on this type of issue please let me know. I don't want my new full time job to be arguing over a car. Best case, I write Volvo corporate and they offer a refund or swap for a car that works but from what I understand, there are so many software issues that I can't imagine they would make the former a remote possibility. I can only imagine how bad the CarFax report is going to look should I try and eat it on a trade as well. This was my fear with any vehicle with so much code behind it, mechanics can't fix it, just software developers. Trying to keep my cool, but any experience with any car as it relates to unfix-able issues as communicated by the dealer would be helpful.
      Lemon laws vary by state. Generally, they require a certain amount of time to have been spent and/or certain number of time trying to repair a particular problem. There are varying time limits to when you have to make such a claim. The problem(s) might need to be one that materially impacts your ability to use the vehicle and/or affects the value of the vehicle so minor things like a stuck air vent for which a part can't be sourced or a piece of trim that keeps falling off but is easily reattached might not be enough to qualify.

      As an example, in my state (Illinois) there must have been at least four attempts or 30 days spent trying to fix a problem within the first 12 months or 12,000 miles of ownership of a vehicle purchased as new. So second owners are excluded and so are issues that come up after the first year of ownership.

      Your best bet is to call Volvo corporate. They can work with the dealer to satisfy you without you having to file a claim through your state's attorney general or however they are handled.

      I'm curious, what is the specific problem you're having? If it's something like a complaint about how Pandora is laggy, or how your HUD doesn't stay in place then that might not be something you're going to get satisfaction on but if it's something more important like buttons not operating or a power drain on the battery while parked, then that would probably get more attention.

      Talk to the people here who've had buy backs done, they can tell you how it was all handled.

    13. #11
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      They replaced our 2016 with a 2017. Lemon law depends on the state you live. The law is actually straight forward - at least it was for us. Although our dealer was very good, we simply got to the point that we had lost faith in the vehicle, and with all the issues well documented and the vehicle in service as long as it was during its first 11 months of ownership, Volvo exchanged it for another vehicle without us having to declare it as a lemon. All we had to pay was a small usage fee, as outlined in our state lemon law statutes.
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      Quote Originally Posted by phillipu View Post
      Lemon laws vary by state. Generally, they require a certain amount of time to have been spent and/or certain number of time trying to repair a particular problem. There are varying time limits to when you have to make such a claim. The problem(s) might need to be one that materially impacts your ability to use the vehicle and/or affects the value of the vehicle so minor things like a stuck air vent for which a part can't be sourced or a piece of trim that keeps falling off but is easily reattached might not be enough to qualify.

      As an example, in my state (Illinois) there must have been at least four attempts or 30 days spent trying to fix a problem within the first 12 months or 12,000 miles of ownership of a vehicle purchased as new. So second owners are excluded and so are issues that come up after the first year of ownership.

      Your best bet is to call Volvo corporate. They can work with the dealer to satisfy you without you having to file a claim through your state's attorney general or however they are handled.

      I'm curious, what is the specific problem you're having? If it's something like a complaint about how Pandora is laggy, or how your HUD doesn't stay in place then that might not be something you're going to get satisfaction on but if it's something more important like buttons not operating or a power drain on the battery while parked, then that would probably get more attention.

      Talk to the people here who've had buy backs done, they can tell you how it was all handled.
      The A/C won't come on. There were days when it was 105 degrees here in AZ and I thought I was going to pass out with out the A/C. It comes on maybe 50% of the time now. They had it four times and over 30 days. I supplied videos. They were also able to replicate the problem. They finally identified it as a software problem with no known fix at this time. Would have been less of an issue if it weren't so darn hot here in AZ this past summer! My wife refuses to use my car.

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      Does this not affect all XC90's then? Or at least all of the same model year and trim spec?

    16. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by christiansin View Post
      The A/C won't come on. There were days when it was 105 degrees here in AZ and I thought I was going to pass out with out the A/C. It comes on maybe 50% of the time now. They had it four times and over 30 days. I supplied videos. They were also able to replicate the problem. They finally identified it as a software problem with no known fix at this time. Would have been less of an issue if it weren't so darn hot here in AZ this past summer! My wife refuses to use my car.
      Quote Originally Posted by lbowroom View Post
      Does this not affect all XC90's then? Or at least all of the same model year and trim spec?
      I haven’t heard about that being common. The most I’ve heard of is a faulty ambient temperature sensor (in the passenger mirror) that can cause the A/C to not work properly but that’s a simple fix where replacing the sensor solves the issue. So if they’re saying it’s a software issue then it must be something other than the sensor.
      2017 XC90 T8 Inscription

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      Quote Originally Posted by lbowroom View Post
      Does this not affect all XC90's then? Or at least all of the same model year and trim spec?
      I'd like to know this too. If this is a software issue, then why wouldn't it affect all the other vehicles of this trim as well? Is it something climate-related, like the outside temperature sensor relaying the wrong temperature to the software?

      Having no A/C in Phoenix is a BIG deal.

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      Quote Originally Posted by krypttic View Post
      I'd like to know this too. If this is a software issue, then why wouldn't it affect all the other vehicles of this trim as well? Is it something climate-related, like the outside temperature sensor relaying the wrong temperature to the software?

      Having no A/C in Phoenix is a BIG deal.
      I can only imagine how uncomfortable that would be having spent no more than two days there (it was 105.)

      OP, does your driver display report the wrong outside temperature which is indicative of a faulty sensor?
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      I have had my sensor replaced twice, once each summer. It seems like it is either more than just a sensor issue, or these sensors go bad fast.

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      Quote Originally Posted by djsaad1 View Post
      I have had my sensor replaced twice, once each summer. It seems like it is either more than just a sensor issue, or these sensors go bad fast.
      So do you think it might be a calibration issue then? It seems like such an easy, old tech kind of thing to design and fix. I mean there's been ambient temperature gauges in cars for decades, right?

    21. #19
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      All I can say is contact a lawyer now. I stupidly waited, thinking mine would be fixed (popping, acceleration issues). Now not sure I could file a claim, since mine was bought at the end of '16.
      Current: '18 XC90 Inscription, Pine Grey

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    22. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by christiansin View Post
      I am on my fifth Volvo loaner. The dealer has finally identified the problem with my car after four attempts. That's the good news. The problem is the fix is purely software related and there is not software available "yet" to fix my car. They are apparently coding it up in Sweden but no one knows when it will be released. My car has been in and out of the shop for 30+ days in the past 2 months. I bought the 2017 Inscription this past summer, new, approx 72k. No one knows when the software will be available to fix my vehicle. That said, they told me to come pick it up today or tomorrow. I have been nice, they have been nice. No one is being unprofessional. I even offered them a case of wine if they could fix it. What to do? Is employing the lemon law practical, or is it one long waste of legal funds? Does working directly with the dealer or Volvo corporate ever really yield success? If you have any experience with Volvo or any other manufacturer on this type of issue please let me know. I don't want my new full time job to be arguing over a car. Best case, I write Volvo corporate and they offer a refund or swap for a car that works but from what I understand, there are so many software issues that I can't imagine they would make the former a remote possibility. I can only imagine how bad the CarFax report is going to look should I try and eat it on a trade as well. This was my fear with any vehicle with so much code behind it, mechanics can't fix it, just software developers. Trying to keep my cool, but any experience with any car as it relates to unfix-able issues as communicated by the dealer would be helpful.
      Since you are in AZ, I suggest you read the "Arizona's Lemon Law" section on https://www.azag.gov/consumer/cars and follow the instructions.

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      Quote Originally Posted by phillipu View Post
      I haven’t heard about that being common. The most I’ve heard of is a faulty ambient temperature sensor (in the passenger mirror) that can cause the A/C to not work properly but that’s a simple fix where replacing the sensor solves the issue. So if they’re saying it’s a software issue then it must be something other than the sensor.
      My ac in my 2016 sucks mysteriously, it was horrible in Vegas in June as well. I have had it recharged, tx replaced, etc...

      Yet my bolt blows cold like it's a stiff arctic breeze, so did my volt, highlander hybrid, prius, prius c, Ford Escape, smart fortwo and Ford f150 ecoboost but not my very expensive Volvo. Sigh.

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      Last edited by curtdept; 10-30-2017 at 10:40 PM.

    24. #22
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      this isn't a software problem. This is a "dealer doesn't know what the **** they are doing" problem.

      I've seen a horrible amount of buybacks come out of Arizona. Makes me wonder if it is the same dealer doing this.
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      Quote Originally Posted by christiansin View Post
      They did not offer a refund. They did not offer a buyback. They did not offer a trade. Again, what are you saying, your communication is so strange.
      Best case, I write Volvo corporate and they offer a refund or swap for a car that works but from what I understand, there are so many software issues that I can't imagine they would make the former a remote possibility.
      I read it wrong. Anyway, buyback is not hard if you push it. Swap is more common.

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      Please don't hire a lawyer and don't sign retainer documents with the lawyer! All you need is enough documented visits and a formal notice you write, by yourself, from a template (search your state's lemon law and template), mail that notice to Volvo through USPS certified mail, and Volvo will work with you.

      If you sign a retainer, the lawyer may be entitled to a percentage of your compensation--I'd use that as last resort.
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    27. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by goVolvo View Post
      Once they have the fix it will run just fine.
      IF they have it fixed but apparently the OP has been given the runaround without resolution for their issue.
      It is completely understandable if they want to throw in the towel especially if they've jumped through all the dealer hoops and their rhetoric.

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      Check for water under the drivers carpet

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      Quote Originally Posted by phillipu View Post
      I can only imagine how uncomfortable that would be having spent no more than two days there (it was 105.)

      OP, does your driver display report the wrong outside temperature which is indicative of a faulty sensor?
      The outdoor temp, and the thermometer placed in the A/C vent are identical. They confirmed yesterday that it is 100% software related. There apparently is a little door/gate that opens to let the A/C into the cabin when the A/C is turned on. Volvo (Sweden engineers) produced a way for the guys here to check if the door/gate was not open on A/C activation. They were able to see the door/gate does not open for some time (15 minutes) or unless you turn it on and off to cycle it (or shut the car down). They confirmed the A/C was actually on as well just can't move into the car. The local shop foreman said Volvo called it a "software bug" and that it sounded as if other cars are affected but it is not common at all. I have a 2107 Inscription. I will tell you that I am aware of other car companies having strange issues due to the many custom packages. I recall one car company was having a problem (computer related) and they figured out that it only occurred on cars with the heated steering wheel package! Crazy. Anyway, my problem is apparently in the hands of programmers.

    30. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by christiansin View Post
      The outdoor temp, and the thermometer placed in the A/C vent are identical. They confirmed yesterday that it is 100% software related. There apparently is a little door/gate that opens to let the A/C into the cabin when the A/C is turned on. Volvo (Sweden engineers) produced a way for the guys here to check if the door/gate was not open on A/C activation. They were able to see the door/gate does not open for some time (15 minutes) or unless you turn it on and off to cycle it (or shut the car down). They confirmed the A/C was actually on as well just can't move into the car. The local shop foreman said Volvo called it a "software bug" and that it sounded as if other cars are affected but it is not common at all. I have a 2107 Inscription. I will tell you that I am aware of other car companies having strange issues due to the many custom packages. I recall one car company was having a problem (computer related) and they figured out that it only occurred on cars with the heated steering wheel package! Crazy. Anyway, my problem is apparently in the hands of programmers.
      Lol wow they got you fooled.

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      Inteller, you really may want to consider looking into your habit of making yourself look foolish while insulting others.

    32. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by christiansin View Post
      The outdoor temp, and the thermometer placed in the A/C vent are identical. They confirmed yesterday that it is 100% software related. There apparently is a little door/gate that opens to let the A/C into the cabin when the A/C is turned on. Volvo (Sweden engineers) produced a way for the guys here to check if the door/gate was not open on A/C activation. They were able to see the door/gate does not open for some time (15 minutes) or unless you turn it on and off to cycle it (or shut the car down). They confirmed the A/C was actually on as well just can't move into the car. The local shop foreman said Volvo called it a "software bug" and that it sounded as if other cars are affected but it is not common at all. I have a 2107 Inscription. I will tell you that I am aware of other car companies having strange issues due to the many custom packages. I recall one car company was having a problem (computer related) and they figured out that it only occurred on cars with the heated steering wheel package! Crazy. Anyway, my problem is apparently in the hands of programmers.
      Weird. Not that it'll help you but I've got a MY17 T8 Inscription and not had any problem with my A/C.

      The worst software problem I've experienced to date is a fault where the controls along the center stack would occasionally fail such that I couldn't control the radio, change drive modes or adjust climate from the rear climate control panel. The only feature that didn't have some form of redundant control via Sensus or the steering wheel was the drive mode control which was a little problematic not being able to switch to AWD in the snow. Thankfully a software update did fix this about two weeks into first experiencing it. The worst mechanical problem I've had was a failure of the high voltage coolant heater that required it to be replaced. Without it functioning, the cabin wouldn't heat. They were able to diagnose and fix that in about a week most of which was waiting for the part to come in.

      Had I been told that either of those problems were not fixable at the current time with an indefinite date for them to be resolved, I'm not sure what I would've done. Honestly, I think I would have probably gone up the chain to ask that they replace it because both problems were affecting my ability to drive the vehicle safely or with reasonable comfort.

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      Quote Originally Posted by inteller View Post
      Lol wow they got you fooled.

      Sent from my obamaphone.
      What do you mean? Are you thinking it is not software and they are hoping I just go away? If that was the strategy that would really stink for me! However, there is no way anyone in AZ would go away with this issue. We hit temps of 118 degree this past summer. The sun itself is hot even when the temp is not (which is why the auto start stop drives me nuts too, because when it is 85 out, the car auto shuts down at a red light, the air blower reduces output and the sun is roasting my face...that's why convertibles can be hard for some people even when its not super hot out....but that's another discussion).

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      Quote Originally Posted by christiansin View Post
      The outdoor temp, and the thermometer placed in the A/C vent are identical. They confirmed yesterday that it is 100% software related. There apparently is a little door/gate that opens to let the A/C into the cabin when the A/C is turned on. Volvo (Sweden engineers) produced a way for the guys here to check if the door/gate was not open on A/C activation. They were able to see the door/gate does not open for some time (15 minutes) or unless you turn it on and off to cycle it (or shut the car down). They confirmed the A/C was actually on as well just can't move into the car. The local shop foreman said Volvo called it a "software bug" and that it sounded as if other cars are affected but it is not common at all. I have a 2107 Inscription. I will tell you that I am aware of other car companies having strange issues due to the many custom packages. I recall one car company was having a problem (computer related) and they figured out that it only occurred on cars with the heated steering wheel package! Crazy. Anyway, my problem is apparently in the hands of programmers.
      So here is one of my videos capturing:
      -the outdoor temp measured by the car displayed on drivers display,
      -the outdoor temp displayed by the weather app on Sensus screen,
      -the thermometer temp of the A/C sticking in the AC vent.
      -and the A/C temp settings on Sensus climate control.

      Eventually rising, blowing 100 degree air until I cycle it as a work around.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0k-JW_vPQ0&t=6s

    35. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by christiansin View Post
      So here is one of my videos capturing:
      -the outdoor temp measured by the car displayed on drivers display,
      -the outdoor temp displayed by the weather app on Sensus screen,
      -the thermometer temp of the A/C sticking in the AC vent.
      -and the A/C temp settings on Sensus climate control.

      Eventually rising, blowing 100 degree air until I cycle it as a work around.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0k-JW_vPQ0&t=6s
      So as you may have read, there's a semi-annual software cycle that Volvo follows which see major updates released in May and November. Other updates are released throughout the year and I believe are usually confined to bug fixes. Since you seem to have been patient this far, you could wait for the updates to come out next week or the following week to see if it fixes your car, but beyond that it's up to you to decide if you should start barking up the tree to Volvo corporate. There are definitely vehicles out there that aren't affected. I don't know what combination of features, software bugs, or possibly out-of-spec parts your vehicle might have that is causing this, but it's not normal.

    36. #34
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Jan 2017
      Location
      Phoenix, AZ, USA
      Posts
      47
      Quote Originally Posted by christiansin View Post
      The outdoor temp, and the thermometer placed in the A/C vent are identical. They confirmed yesterday that it is 100% software related. There apparently is a little door/gate that opens to let the A/C into the cabin when the A/C is turned on. Volvo (Sweden engineers) produced a way for the guys here to check if the door/gate was not open on A/C activation. They were able to see the door/gate does not open for some time (15 minutes) or unless you turn it on and off to cycle it (or shut the car down). They confirmed the A/C was actually on as well just can't move into the car. The local shop foreman said Volvo called it a "software bug" and that it sounded as if other cars are affected but it is not common at all. I have a 2107 Inscription. I will tell you that I am aware of other car companies having strange issues due to the many custom packages. I recall one car company was having a problem (computer related) and they figured out that it only occurred on cars with the heated steering wheel package! Crazy. Anyway, my problem is apparently in the hands of programmers.
      I have the same issue with my 2017 Inscription but haven't brought mine to a dealership yet. I also live in AZ.

      It's probably occurred 10 times this summer. I start the car and after driving for a couple minutes realize the temperature is not cooling down in the cabin. Sensus shows A/C is on, but it is blowing hot air. I've found that if I toggle the A/C off, then back on and it has fixed the issue so I am not suffering for the remainder of the drive.

      Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
      Jason M.

      2017 XC90 T6 Inscription | Osmium Gray Metallic | Amber/Charcoal
      Packages & Options: Climate w/HUD | Convenience | Vision | Leather Dash | Air Suspension | Bowers & Wilkins | 21" Wheels | Mud Flaps | Bumper Cover
      OSD: Sweden - May 23, 2017

    37. #35
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Aug 2017
      Posts
      72
      Quote Originally Posted by jtmachen View Post
      I have the same issue with my 2017 Inscription but haven't brought mine to a dealership yet. I also live in AZ.

      It's probably occurred 10 times this summer. I start the car and after driving for a couple minutes realize the temperature is not cooling down in the cabin. Sensus shows A/C is on, but it is blowing hot air. I've found that if I toggle the A/C off, then back on and it has fixed the issue so I am not suffering for the remainder of the drive.

      Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
      Holy cow, I feel like I found someone with the same rare genetic disorder!! if you bring it in, you best take it to the new Volvo dealership on Indian Bend and the 101. They all know me there and the issue so it won't turn into a conversation of, "no we've never seen that before". Also try your local dealer to it creates another node on the global map for this issue. In AZ, this is a serious issue and you don't want to get stuck with this problem because you can't fix it. At least I was told it was a software bug, so I am assuming it can't be fixed without a software patch etc. I will wait for the November update. If the update doesn't fix it then I will pursue a practical remedy. Let me know if anything becomes of your similar issue. P.S. the issue is harder to diagnose now that it is starting to cool off.

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