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    1. #36
      Junior Member skibum50's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      I really do not mean to sound condescending or like an a$$ (i promise) but its pretty easy to decipher the message in the internal memo
      Despite displaying a bit of attitude, I think you mean well. But the point others are making is that an announcement that big shouldn't be made by "deciphering" it from an internal memo. If it were true (and I doubt it is), then it would be made in a normal press release. That's what we're looking for.
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    3. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by skibum50 View Post
      Despite displaying a bit of attitude, I think you mean well. But the point others are making is that an announcement that big shouldn't be made by "deciphering" it from an internal memo. If it were true (and I doubt it is), then it would be made in a normal press release. That's what we're looking for.
      This is the effect that unconfirmed message always causes. Personally I am not worried. S60L in US has shown the track record of Chengdu factory. Really no big deal.

    4. #38
      Quote Originally Posted by comp1 View Post
      I hope that Volvo continues with its other colors. We joke about Black, White Silver and Grey but it looks like we're heading in that direction. Thankfully Fusion Red and Bursting Blue will continue to give us pops of colors on some models. Enjoying my "Denim Blue" each and every day!!!!
      I was told by a well respected representative at a very well respected retailer that they think “Volvo is just not a blue-friendly vehicle”. (As I ordered my denim Blue XC60, being advised I’m among the last to order”.

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    6. #39
      Global Moderator GrecianVolvo's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      OSD order will work same way as S90L that is now built in China. You will get a similar car at FDC to drive in Europe, and your new car will be shipped on vessels across Pacific Ocean from China to US.

      If you place OSD now, the build time probably could be in either Feb or March depends on the schedule. You can try to request pickup date in March which seems very tight in time, but I don't think they know or could communicate to you right now if your car will be built in Sweden or China.
      This is no longer the case. At this point, S90 is not available via the OSD program.
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    7. #40
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      Quote Originally Posted by GrecianVolvo View Post
      This is no longer the case. At this point, S90 is not available via the OSD program.
      Ok, so are they thinking about offering OSD from China factory? Or build a FDC in China? I'll probably OSD more then. lol
      Last edited by FusionRedXC60; 01-02-2018 at 06:04 PM.

    8. #41
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by skibum50 View Post
      Despite displaying a bit of attitude, I think you mean well. But the point others are making is that an announcement that big shouldn't be made by "deciphering" it from an internal memo. If it were true (and I doubt it is), then it would be made in a normal press release. That's what we're looking for.
      I think you missed the point. There is no need for deciphering the message because "Shift production" and "Conclude (aka stop) production" are very precise words with very precise meanings.
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    9. #42
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      If production will continue in Torslanda, then why would Denim Blue & Electric Silver be discontinued? Or will those colors continue to be available?
      I assume the elimination of those popular colors are a result of supply issues in Chengdu?
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    10. #43
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      Quote Originally Posted by njlime View Post
      If production will continue in Torslanda, then why would Denim Blue & Electric Silver be discontinued? Or will those colors continue to be available?
      I assume the elimination of those popular colors are a result of supply issues in Chengdu?
      I don't think supply of a color paint could become an issue.

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    11. #44
      Junior Member kospa60's Avatar
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      In any case shifting production of the European best seller XC60, outside Europe is definitely not a smart move. Not because of quality issues, but I'm quite certain transportation costs will be significantly higher.

    12. #45
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kospa60 View Post
      In any case shifting production of the European best seller XC60, outside Europe is definitely not a smart move. Not because of quality issues, but I'm quite certain transportation costs will be significantly higher.
      I would bet they save money on labor. Sweden is a pretty expensive country for labor compared to China.

      The same exact thing happened with the S90 so this isnt out of the ordinary.
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    13. #46
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      I'm just looking for a second source of the information for confirmation that any/all of it is true.
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    14. #47
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mikey54 View Post
      I'm just looking for a second source of the information for confirmation that any/all of it is true.
      Ask any Volvo retail employee that has access to VRC2. Its clear as day.
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    15. #48
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      That’s very unfortunate to hear production will be moving to China for the XC60. I was planning to purchase one later in 2018 but based on that very news, I will not be buying one now. I have developed a particular opinion of “Made in China” quality based on much experience in working with Chinese manufacturing engineers and visiting numerous mfg plants throughout the country of China. As much as I would like, I just can’t do it.

      I don’t think the S60L comparison is very fair because the quantities sold in the USA aren’t very close (sample sizes aren’t the same for S60L verses XC60). They’d have to develop more of a track record to give me a warm comfy feeling. Just my 2 cents.

      I wonder how many other people will be against purchasing a XC60 after they learn it will be “Made in China”.

    16. #49
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      Just an FYI, the average Chinese factory worker earns just one tenth of the wage of a European worker. That will translate to a considerable cost savings for Volvo. What are the chances Volvo will pass that savings to you and me, the consumer? Probably none. I cannot imagine Volvo will be lowering its price. So as long as I’m going to pay the full price for an XC60 then I want mine assembled in Sweden (or anywhere in Europe). If the price isn’t changing, then I don’t see any benefit whatsoever of having a “Made in China” verses a “Made in Sweden” Volvo.

    17. #50
      Global Moderator GrecianVolvo's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Joeyboy View Post
      Just an FYI, the average Chinese factory worker earns just one tenth of the wage of a European worker. That will translate to a considerable cost savings for Volvo. What are the chances Volvo will pass that savings to you and me, the consumer? Probably none. I cannot imagine Volvo will be lowering its price. So as long as I’m going to pay the full price for an XC60 then I want mine assembled in Sweden (or anywhere in Europe). If the price isn’t changing, then I don’t see any benefit whatsoever of having a “Made in China” verses a “Made in Sweden” Volvo.
      So, according to your logic, if a Volvo were made in (let's say) Mexico, would you be posing the same argument, that you would want to pay less because the average Mexican worker makes a lot less than the average European worker? I do not think so. The average Belgian worker makes less than the average Swedish worker; should the Belgian-assembled Volvo be sold for less than those made in Sweden?

      Should the Mercedes-Benz cars assembled in Kecskemet, Hungary cost less than those assembled in Rastatt, Germany since the average Hungarian worker makes peanuts when compared to the average German worker?

      Volvo moving production around the world improves production planning and is integral in its growth to sell at least 800,000 cars per year.
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    18. #51
      Global Moderator GrecianVolvo's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Joeyboy View Post
      That’s very unfortunate to hear production will be moving to China for the XC60. I was planning to purchase one later in 2018 but based on that very news, I will not be buying one now. I have developed a particular opinion of “Made in China” quality based on much experience in working with Chinese manufacturing engineers and visiting numerous mfg plants throughout the country of China. As much as I would like, I just can’t do it.

      I don’t think the S60L comparison is very fair because the quantities sold in the USA aren’t very close (sample sizes aren’t the same for S60L verses XC60). They’d have to develop more of a track record to give me a warm comfy feeling. Just my 2 cents.

      I wonder how many other people will be against purchasing a XC60 after they learn it will be “Made in China”.
      Enough with the Sinophobia...this has been discussed ad nauseam here and Volvo has been successfully assembling cars in China (S60 Inscription and MY18 S90s) without any issues. As a matter of fact, the Chengdu plant is a state of the art plant and the quality of its output has been found to be equal or exceeding that of Torslanda, Sweden.

      Volvo Car Group applies the same principles no matter where its operations are; they are based on its founding core values of focusing on people, its customers and the environment.

      Its workforce is managed the same, whether it is in Europe or China (and, soon to be, in the U.S.); the quality standards are equally stringent, from not overworking individuals to keeping them safe on the factory floors. Glass windows and having all equipment no higher than 52" from the ground is attractive to employees because that minimizes injuries.

      Why are such details relevant to this discussion? To demonstrate that the Volvo plants are the same, no matter where they are located. It all starts with leadership training and controlling the expansion vs hiring hundreds of workers to put out cars. Its growth has been controlled because stringent leadership and employee training standards had to be adhered to.

      This results in attracting quality people, creates employer branding that workers subscribe to which allows them to have a job that is interesting coupled with the opportunity to further develop and, thus, have a career path. That reduces the turnover especially in a country where labor turnover has been notoriously high.

      You find the right people, you just take care of them so that they will want to stay, not because they have to stay. That is the same mantra applied everywhere, in the Volvo world.
      Last edited by GrecianVolvo; 01-04-2018 at 02:47 PM.
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    19. #52
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      So grecian are the materials exactly the same,are the workers paid exactly the same and who undertakes the international independant inspection and certification that all you say is true.who pays these certifiers and what role does Geely have in their appointment and outcomes.also please tell us the cost of producing a s90 in china vs the cost of production in Torslanda.


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    20. #53
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jasz1156 View Post
      So grecian are the materials exactly the same,are the workers paid exactly the same and who undertakes the international independant inspection and certification that all you say is true.who pays these certifiers and what role does Geely have in their appointment and outcomes.also please tell us the cost of producing a s90 in china vs the cost of production in Torslanda.


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      In this world, price is not tied to where it is made. Price is based on market demanding. If nobody buys Volvo cars made in China, the price would surely go down down, in the form of heavy discount. If enough people don't care then price will not be affected much.

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    21. #54
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      That’s why I am getting out now!


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      Can I also say that Geely cars have proven a nearly impossible sale in the West.For example Kia turn out excellent cars but struggle to get half the price of a Volvo.Market inertia means it takes years for the west( particularly the US) to pick up that their Volvo is made in China.I for one always want to know where the car is made and pay accordingly.I suggest if place is not important you think about a ssaang yong or Kia for half the money.


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    23. #56
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jasz1156 View Post
      Can I also say that Geely cars have proven a nearly impossible sale in the West.For example Kia turn out excellent cars but struggle to get half the price of a Volvo.Market inertia means it takes years for the west( particularly the US) to pick up that their Volvo is made in China.I for one always want to know where the car is made and pay accordingly.I suggest if place is not important you think about a ssaang yong or Kia for half the money.


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      KIA and Hyundai sells a lot in US, and its price is not much less than domestic cars. And it makes no sense in comparison of price between KIA and Volvo.

      American are open to quality products. This is the strength of this market.
      Last edited by FusionRedXC60; 01-04-2018 at 04:20 AM.
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    24. #57
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      Maybe it's possible that it means for the US (or North America) imported XC60s are all to be sourced from Mainland China? I find it hard to believe that entire production for such an important vehicle be moved so quickly after settling down in one facility. You can argue that SPA allows that, but AFAIK this is the Chengdu plant's first SPA vehicle; the entire tooling and process is probably new to them, so the modular platform argument doesn't really stand...

      Also, it's not like the Torslanda plant is being closed down. If you move all XC60 manufacturing to other plants, what is Volvo doing with all that vacant capacity? XC40 is built at Ghent, the new S60 is to be produced in South Carolina, and the other V90/XC90 models probably don't have that much orders to fill the huge gap (I guess).

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      Quote Originally Posted by cltang View Post
      Maybe it's possible that it means for the US (or North America) imported XC60s are all to be sourced from Mainland China? I find it hard to believe that entire production for such an important vehicle be moved so quickly after settling down in one facility. You can argue that SPA allows that, but AFAIK this is the Chengdu plant's first SPA vehicle; the entire tooling and process is probably new to them, so the modular platform argument doesn't really stand...

      Also, it's not like the Torslanda plant is being closed down. If you move all XC60 manufacturing to other plants, what is Volvo doing with all that vacant capacity? XC40 is built at Ghent, the new S60 is to be produced in South Carolina, and the other V90/XC90 models probably don't have that much orders to fill the huge gap (I guess).
      Last generation XC60/S60L have been made at Chengdu factory for years. So it takes similar effort to shift to SPA like the Ghent factory to CMA.

      And is it hard to believe majority of S60 and many next generation XC90 will be made in South Carolina factory starting late next year?

      I believe Torslandra will still get enough to build. XC90, V60 and S60 for EU, next generation cars, and possible new models.

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      Last edited by FusionRedXC60; 01-04-2018 at 04:34 AM.
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    26. #59
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      Quote Originally Posted by GrecianVolvo View Post
      So, according to your logic, if a Volvo were made in (let's say) Mexico, would you be posing the same argument, that you would want to pay less because the average Mexican worker makes a lot less than the average European worker? I do not think so. The average Belgian worker makes less than the average Swedish worker; should the Belgian-assembled Volvo be sold for less than those made in Sweden?

      Should the Mercedes-Benz cars assembled in Kecskemet, Hungary cost less than those assembled in Rastatt, Germany since the average Hungarian worker makes peanuts when compared to the average German worker?

      Volvo moving production around the world improves production planning and is integral in its growth to sell at least 800,000 cars per year.
      The jury is still out on Audi moving global Q5 production to Mexico from Ingolstadt but they've already had union issues: http://europe.autonews.com/article/2...r-pay-benefits, http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-bc...925-story.html. While Jetta, Golf and Beetle buyers haven't been paying a premium for their Puebla produced vehicles (and before Golf production moved there, they did pay a premium for a German produced Golf over the equivalent Jetta), Q5 buyers are.

      The XC60's other German rivals are built in Bremen, DE (GLC) and Spartanburg, SC (X3). Its Japanese rivals come out of Aguascalientes, MX (QX50), East Liberty, OH (RDX) and Cambridge, ON (North American RX). In the long run production location probably won't matter to most buyers, Volvo and their dealers will just have to convince buyers that the XC60 is a better purchase than its rivals.
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    27. #60
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jasz1156 View Post
      So grecian are the materials exactly the same,are the workers paid exactly the same and who undertakes the international independant inspection and certification that all you say is true.who pays these certifiers and what role does Geely have in their appointment and outcomes.also please tell us the cost of producing a s90 in china vs the cost of production in Torslanda.


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      Volvo is no different than an iPhone. It is assembled in China with parts sourced from all over the world. The engine mount made in Belgium is going to be the same mount installed in China, Sweden, or South Carolina. The engine built in Sweden is the same engine installed in a vehicle in China or Belgium.

      I am not sure why this is hard to understand.
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    28. #61
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Volvo is no different than an iPhone. It is assembled in China with parts sourced from all over the world. The engine mount made in Belgium is going to be the same mount installed in China, Sweden, or South Carolina. The engine built in Sweden is the same engine installed in a vehicle in China or Belgium.

      I am not sure why this is hard to understand.
      Because it’s rarely if ever true. If it is simply assembly that is understandable.However every element of a car has many potential suppliers.I have had a VW built in Spain that had many faults and was different to the German car. I have had a Ford built in Germany that was outstanding and much better materials than the same car built in Thailand.This is not only plastics switches etc but the suspension gearbox and motor fittings.
      If you buy cars on brand you will get done


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    29. #62
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jasz1156 View Post
      Because it’s rarely if ever true. If it is simply assembly that is understandable.However every element of a car has many potential suppliers.I have had a VW built in Spain that had many faults and was different to the German car. I have had a Ford built in Germany that was outstanding and much better materials than the same car built in Thailand.This is not only plastics switches etc but the suspension gearbox and motor fittings.
      If you buy cars on brand you will get done


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      Volvo is not VW or Ford and does not have the large sourcing like those manufacturers. They dont order engine mounts or control arms from 5 different companies that are closer to the assembly plants.

      China is simply assembly as I have stated numerous times. China does not build the transmission or engine. In fact, I cant think of any parts on the vehicle that China directly manufacturers. I will update IF i ever find one.
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Volvo is not VW or Ford and does not have the large sourcing like those manufacturers. They dont order engine mounts or control arms from 5 different companies that are closer to the assembly plants.

      China is simply assembly as I have stated numerous times. China does not build the transmission or engine. In fact, I cant think of any parts on the vehicle that China directly manufacturers. I will update IF i ever find one.
      Not to scare anyone, you will surely find some. The spare tire on XC90 is a China supply for example. However quality control is always the king wherever parts are sourced from.

      And there is a Volvo managed engine factory at Zhangjiakou making Drive-E T4 engine currently for China market. It could expand to T3, T5, T6 easily when logistically make sense.

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    31. #64
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      Not to scare anyone, you will surely find some. The spare tire on XC90 is a China supply for example. However quality control is always the king wherever parts are sourced from.

      And there is a Volvo managed engine factory at Zhangjiakou making Drive-E T4 engine currently for China market. It could expand to T3, T5, T6 easily when logistically make sense.

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      You are correct. The spare tire is China made.

      No engines in VCNA market are China made though.
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      You are correct. The spare tire is China made.

      No engines in VCNA market are China made though.
      The engine in S60 Inscription is from the factory I mentioned above.

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    33. #66
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      The engine in S60 Inscription is from the factory I mentioned above.

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      Soon as I get another one in, I will get pictures and serial numbers to show where it was assembled. Since I dont have one right now, I will stay mum.
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      This has come up before. The 2017 s90 was 40% Sweden 15%germany. The 2018 s90l is 36%china25%sweden. This is set out on vehicle tags so the facts are clearly different to gunshots assertion.what are the figures for the xc60?


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      Quote Originally Posted by Jasz1156 View Post
      This has come up before. The 2017 s90 was 40% Sweden 15%germany. The 2018 s90l is 36%china25%sweden. This is set out on vehicle tags so the facts are clearly different to gunshots assertion.what are the figures for the xc60?


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      They're going to use local manufacturers whenever they can, it makes no sense to ship them from Sweden/Belgium to China if they can source things locally. Same thing will hold true with the South Carolina factory, they'll use local manufacturers which is why it's such a big deal when it was chosen as the location for a factory. It doesn't just gain the factory jobs, it gains all of the supporting supplier jobs as well. Engines will be shipped in from one of the engine plants, transmissions will come from Aisin in Japan but the monroney sticker for the XC60 will look end up looking like the 2018 S90L's if that's where production is moved to.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jasz1156 View Post
      This has come up before. The 2017 s90 was 40% Sweden 15%germany. The 2018 s90l is 36%china25%sweden. This is set out on vehicle tags so the facts are clearly different to gunshots assertion.what are the figures for the xc60?
      There are MUCH more locations where individual parts are sourced and are clearly labeled on every part we get/install/replace on a vehicle. When I replace an engine in a vehicle, it comes from the VCNA warehouse that gets it from Sweden. We have done dozens of e-drive engine replacements last year and not one engine came from any other location. The same goes for small individual parts (spring seats, struts, ac compressors)... I have yet to see one with a "made in china" sticker or label.





      Quote Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
      They're going to use local manufacturers whenever they can, it makes no sense to ship them from Sweden/Belgium to China if they can source things locally\.
      The engine assembly in China is assembly. I doubt (and i will look into it) that they cast blocks/heads/pistons as those manufacturing capabilities are very limited worldwide.
      Last edited by gunshow; 01-04-2018 at 11:47 AM.
      Disgruntled Volvo Technician & Owner.

      DO NOT PM me with your car questions.


      DO NOT GO INTO THE CAR BUSINESS.

    37. #70
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      So my point was that a Torslanda car is not the same as a chengdu. Gunshow is clearly wrong in the assertion that the parts are exactly the same.From that point on I agree people need to make a value decision.However they should be told the truth about what they are buying so they can make an informed decision.



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