(re)Introduction with my 72 164e

[142 Guy]

The large metal ring over the injector? Are you talking about 43 in the figure below?

injector - later.JPG

If so, that is indeed the 'only' retaining mechanism for the injector other than the friction of the pintel seals. The ring has retainer tabs around its base which lock into the injector holder on the on the head when you twist the ring clockwise. Unlocking the ring takes some effort so either the ring was not locked in place originally or the retaining tabs have been bent and the ring isn't locking. There is a large rubber ring / grommet (#41 in the diagram) that goes around the body of the injector. If that rubber ring has gone missing or has shrunk / deteriorated with age, then the metal retainer ring for the injector will be a loose fit on the holder and may come loose.

I can't remember whether I mentioned this; but, if you fiddle with the injectors, have new pintel seals and retainer rings available for replacement. Once you move the injectors, the original seals will no longer seal if they are more than a few years old.

You mentioned the ring as the primary culprit - were you referring to the cause of the fuel leak? If so, the retainer rings cannot be responsible for fuel leaks. The stub hose on the fuel injector is clamped to the injector with a compression fitting. Over time, the rubber hardens and shrinks and the compression fitting becomes ineffective. That will result in fuel leakage right at the injector. The compression fitting can be cut off with a Dremel style toll with a metal cut off wheel (be careful not to knick the barb underneath and new hose attached using conventional fuel line clamps at both ends.

Your blue arrow points to the engine coolant sensor for the dash temperature gauge (which is not the sensor that is used by the D jet). I don't have a B30; but, I expect that the oil pressure switch is in approximately the same spot as on my B20. I have attached a picture of the right side of the block showing the oil pressure switch just to the right of the oil filter.

IMGP1028.jpg

That wire that the red arrow points to may be the oil pressure switch. Checking the switch for a missing wire will confirm

[spiked60]

The large metal ring over the injector? Are you talking about 43 in the figure below?

injector - later.JPG

If so, that is indeed the 'only' retaining mechanism for the injector other than the friction of the pintel seals. The ring has retainer tabs around its base which lock into the injector holder on the on the head when you twist the ring clockwise. Unlocking the ring takes some effort so either the ring was not locked in place originally or the retaining tabs have been bent and the ring isn't locking. There is a large rubber ring / grommet (#41 in the diagram) that goes around the body of the injector. If that rubber ring has gone missing or has shrunk / deteriorated with age, then the metal retainer ring for the injector will be a loose fit on the holder and may come loose.

I can't remember whether I mentioned this; but, if you fiddle with the injectors, have new pintel seals and retainer rings available for replacement. Once you move the injectors, the original seals will no longer seal if they are more than a few years old.

You mentioned the ring as the primary culprit - were you referring to the cause of the fuel leak? If so, the retainer rings cannot be responsible for fuel leaks. The stub hose on the fuel injector is clamped to the injector with a compression fitting. Over time, the rubber hardens and shrinks and the compression fitting becomes ineffective. That will result in fuel leakage right at the injector. The compression fitting can be cut off with a Dremel style toll with a metal cut off wheel (be careful not to knick the barb underneath and new hose attached using conventional fuel line clamps at both ends.

Your blue arrow points to the engine coolant sensor for the dash temperature gauge (which is not the sensor that is used by the D jet). I don't have a B30; but, I expect that the oil pressure switch is in approximately the same spot as on my B20. I have attached a picture of the right side of the block showing the oil pressure switch just to the right of the oil filter.

IMGP1028.jpg

That wire that the red arrow points to may be the oil pressure switch. Checking the switch for a missing wire will confirm

Correct on all accounts sir!

With that motor photo, I quickly (blindly) found the oil pressure sensor missing a wire, quickly spliced a new connector onto a new length of wire and added that, and all is good there! (I most likely carelessly hit it while doing the oil filter)

As for the fuel. Correct. I initially thought that retainer ring could have allowed a leak, turns out it was a loose hose clamp nearby, but I will keep an eye on that retainer to make sure it's not somehow able to loosen. I was mildly aggressively scrubbing the manifolds to get rid of caked on grime (but not that vigorously I would think to loosen a mechanical lock)


Either here or another post, you do mention the pintle seal (?), so I am definitely aware of those now. I did buy new rubber fuel hose today, but will track down these seals before I start this task. Most of these hoses shouldn't be that old, I have receipts showing many being replaced, and the long pieces (2 underbody hard lines to fuel rail) are stamped with a a date code of 03 (per the shop I stopped by today), but with weird little leaks popping up at hose clamps, I want to focus on refreshing the fuel lines to be safe.
I'll also look into any other rubber bits to replace while I'm in there.


Ran a few errands in it today, to a few auto stores and then on open road, in the 60-70mph range it rides real nice, it's encouraging honestly, got a thumbs up from an old VW Bug to boot. Probably did 10-15 miles at speed, probably the first time in a decade it's gotten moving, hopefully nothing else presents itself as an issue, but surely something will lol, it's no spring chicken.


Anyhoot, good day, minus the dog bite while out for a run, but, such is life.


(p.s. Here's an uneventful start up video last night, after sitting for a week)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BiZppGZlCvp/

[spiked60]

Regular update.
Cars and Coffee sunday went really well, drove her about 75 miles round trip, bringing the mileage by me to almost 100. I'll have to check when I fill up, but, gas mileage is poor. After draining the fuel tank I put in 14+ gallons of new gas, I'm between 1/2 & 1/4 tank on the dial.

Cruised at 65-70 on the way out, 55-60 on the way home. I know the 3 speed auto isn't geared for modern speeds, but, yeah. I keep telling myself I won't do a manual swap, but it is so tempting.
(coincidently I just saw a 240 w/ a P2R motor swap that's just on my mind)

I'm getting more interested in period correct gauges, maybe add a small tach, my original clock isn't working so maybe there. Will have to look into how it would have looked oem.

That's all, still debating on the lowering springs or just a rear set of oem style, each hour I change my mind.


Here are a few pictures with her buttoned up and out in the wild!

[spiked60]

Well I've hit a wall.

Anyone have experience with the motor mounts? I am getting my butt kicked hard by them

I freaking cannot get the motor back a half inch to seat my new mounts, it's been 2 nights now and this is getting nowhere (was supposed to be detailing for this weekend by now). Have no idea if something else is at play as the oem mounts were long gone.

Transmission cross member is loosened and hanging down a few inches, no progress. I'm at the limit of my tools if I need a transmission jack or something special. I'm about ready to see about towing it to a shop as I'm hitting a wall.

Any ideas?

[thispunter]

Sorry, I'm not sure I can help. When I did mine I just took the weight off of the mounts with a jack and did one at a time.
I do remember, however, that when I replaced the transmission mount it was a pain getting the transmission crossmember back on. I had to use a bottle jack to push it toward the rear to get the mounting holes lined up.
Did you lower the transmission crossmember from the start or as a result of difficulty getting the motor mounts lined up?

[spiked60]

I loosened the tranny cross member after the fact, the first night I was trying it in place, the entire engine is just too far forward it feels, and there's not a lot of clearance.

I'm planning on getting ramps after work to give me a more stable platform, will then try to really loosen that cross member and using my 2 jacks, try to work the motor into place.

Im at a loss, I've never had this problem before.

One person on facebook recommended raising the tranny to change the angle, I'll try it, but not sure that's the answer.

Sorry, I'm not sure I can help. When I did mine I just took the weight off of the mounts with a jack and did one at a time.
I do remember, however, that when I replaced the transmission mount it was a pain getting the transmission crossmember back on. I had to use a bottle jack to push it toward the rear to get the mounting holes lined up.
Did you lower the transmission crossmember from the start or as a result of difficulty getting the motor mounts lined up?

[142 Guy]

I have no direct experience with your particular problem because I changed my engine mounts when I rebuilt the engine. The engine / transmission were lowered in place with an engine crane and engine leveling bar and then attached to the engine mounts then the transmission cross member was installed with the driveshaft being the last thing to get connected.

I am guessing that you still have the other engine mount connected (or if they are both gone what is supporting the weight of the engine - a jack?). My thoughts line up a bit with the Facebook suggestion. If the engine / transmission assembly is tilted up towards the front, the engine mount bolts will tend to pivot forward. This will naturally occur if you are jacking the engine up from the very front of the engine and dropping the transmission cross member could make the tilt worse. I would be inclined to put the cross member back in with the mount not tightened up. I suggest that you disconnect the aluminum engine mount attachment plate from the engine and then set the engine mount into its mounting hole on the suspension cross member. If the engine is jacked up from the front, try gradually lowering the jack to see if the engine pivots back enough to get the three bolts that attach the mounting plate to the block back into the block. You may be able to use a large diameter rod through one of the engine mount holes to lever the mount forward / engine backward such that you can get the other two bolts into place. If that is insufficient, you may need to lift the transmission a bit from the rear to get a little more pivot.

[spiked60]

I have no direct experience with your particular problem because I changed my engine mounts when I rebuilt the engine. The engine / transmission were lowered in place with an engine crane and engine leveling bar and then attached to the engine mounts then the transmission cross member was installed with the driveshaft being the last thing to get connected.

I am guessing that you still have the other engine mount connected (or if they are both gone what is supporting the weight of the engine - a jack?). My thoughts line up a bit with the Facebook suggestion. If the engine / transmission assembly is tilted up towards the front, the engine mount bolts will tend to pivot forward. This will naturally occur if you are jacking the engine up from the very front of the engine and dropping the transmission cross member could make the tilt worse. I would be inclined to put the cross member back in with the mount not tightened up. I suggest that you disconnect the aluminum engine mount attachment plate from the engine and then set the engine mount into its mounting hole on the suspension cross member. If the engine is jacked up from the front, try gradually lowering the jack to see if the engine pivots back enough to get the three bolts that attach the mounting plate to the block back into the block. You may be able to use a large diameter rod through one of the engine mount holes to lever the mount forward / engine backward such that you can get the other two bolts into place. If that is insufficient, you may need to lift the transmission a bit from the rear to get a little more pivot.

As always, thank you for the detailed information, I do appreciate it.



Technically, the motor is still resting on the mounts & perches, just, not seated. (I also have a few floor jacks w/ wood blocks in position to gently help and avoid issues if something were to slip).



But this does not make me sleep well, I am extremely bothered? Worried? Troubled, about the fact that this is not buttoned up.


Bought 2 new ramps today (my old one’s got left in California), after work I’m going to get the front end on the ramps to give me a solid & slightly lifted platform (my jack stands are too high for this), so I can start reworking my whole plan of attack. They definitely didn’t leave a lot of extra room around the B30, even if they stretched the front end 6”.



I now see that the original 2 mounts were long destroyed and separated, so who knows how long the motor was able to move, besides the shop telling me they were bad, I noticed when my brand new fan belt had scratches on the outside (the AC/power steering belt) where it had barely made contact w/ the driver’s side fender/frame whatever you’d call that area.



I’m not missing something, right? There are 2 motor mounts (1 per side), and 1 transmission mount at the backside of the tranny. That’s it, right? There’s not a magic mount between these points, like by the bellhousing that I’m missing? Am I an idiot that bad? I was crawling around under it last night w/ glasses, it’s pretty oily and gross so I may have glazed right over something(?)



The Haynes & Green book’s don’t really address this sort of thing, I’ve really gotten used to the newer books that give you dumbed down step by step instructions (well, before I needed a laptop & software to diagnose my S60’s)

[142 Guy]

Two motor mounts and one transmission mount - that is all she wrote!

In your second photo in post #39, is that an old mount or are you showing a new mount? If its the new mount, it looks an awful lot like a generic B20 mount. The correct B30 mounts used to have a hexagonal plate on one side (like in your first photo).

https://www.ipdusa.com/products/6022...d-engine-mount

I don't think it is germane to the fit issue; but, if you are going through the hassle of the install, you want to make sure that they are the correct mounts.

[spiked60]

Two motor mounts and one transmission mount - that is all she wrote!

In your second photo in post #39, is that an old mount or are you showing a new mount? If its the new mount, it looks an awful lot like a generic B20 mount. The correct B30 mounts used to have a hexagonal plate on one side (like in your first photo).

https://www.ipdusa.com/products/6022...d-engine-mount

I don't think it is germane to the fit issue; but, if you are going through the hassle of the install, you want to make sure that they are the correct mounts.

You're right, those are the economy mounts as I figured an easy job and I'm trying to not break the bank on this project. But. Had no idea this would be so, educational... And I wanted this buttoned up, so the cheapos went in.


She's back together, this was my solution:
-Reinstalled transmission cross member (loosely but secure enough).
-Removed the brackets from the block.
-Installed rubber mounts onto brackets, then put onto the frame loosely.
-Then, lowered motor slowly into place, focusing on 1 side at a time.

The transmission didn't have a lot of wiggle room, didn't need it, I just had clearance issues for the studs at that odd angle.

Also happy home depot is open, I had knackered up one of the threads, 20 minutes with a tiny file and I could start the nut

Been a loooooong time since I got schooled this easily on a car, so, fun stuff.

If I can get the passenger seatbelt working for my wife, I can still make it to my event in Chicago on Sunday!

[spiked60]

Just checkin in as this will be my build thread.

After getting the motor mounts resolved, I attacked the locked up seat belt for the passenger side, in the process I did get it moving again, but I did lose some tension on the spring coil (and learned how old volvo seat belts work....). So, it works and I believe it works safely, it just doesn't recoil back in, I will deal with that later, perhaps a winter project.
That meant I could take a passenger, so my wife went with me down to Chicago for a little open house/grand reopening sort of thing at a dealer, it was a pretty small group, and a rainy day, but that was around 260 miles on this car and besides some, quirks, she did quite well. Average MPG was around 16, so that sucks, but, I'm still working on things. I did get to meet MonzaA4, maybe next time I can go for a ride in the 142 to get an idea of how it feels for a better condition, similar era Volvo.

This week I finally ordered some cooling parts and knocked that out yesterday, the hottest day of the year. New thermostat, both hoses, flushed the old coolant out and cleaned the tank in place. I will pull the radiator to have it serviced if needed, but I'd rather not if I don't have to. Previously, the car never would warm up, meaning, the temp gauge always sat in the cold range, unless it was a sunny day and I was sitting at a stop light, then the temp would start to increase (never going above half). After swapping everything out, it warmed up the way a car normally would, it did sit higher than half for all of the warm up and test drive, but it was around 95 F yesterday, so we'll see. Today in the garage, it warmed up to half and stayed. I wonder if the old stat was damaged/jammed/etc, there was a large crusty thing on it, I assume my old cousins topped this off with tap water when needed, so I'm hoping corrosion/blockage is a minimum.

Then today, I finally folded and swapped out the short fuel lines under the hood (pressure regulator-fuel rail-injectors-throttle body). Easy job, but trying really hard to not damage the old wiring harnesses, or injectors, or anything else, made it a bit time consuming. I am tired of tightening hose clamps because of leaking fuel every 4th time I start the car, hoping this fixes it. Now I just am waiting for the motor to cool to double check for leaks around the injectors, yes, I did this prematurely and have not gotten the injector seals ordered, so that's a possibility in the near future.

That's it for now, got my antique plates finally, and went to a cars & coffee yesterday by my house, got to meet a few more local Volvo fans, one w/ an old 544.

Now that it's super hot, I'm wondering if seat covers, or new cloth seats would be a smart move, black vinyl/leather stuff in the hot sun, with no window tint, or a good fan (or working AC), is quite warm, and I really dug the cloth seats in the 142 last week.

Hmmmmm

The project continues!

(will have to add pics from my phone in a minute)


Thermostat and housing


Radiator


Block


Reservoir


Cars and Coffee



Dealership in Chicago

[142 Guy]

Black leather seats and a black interior with no air - period. Add a bright sunny day and with that huge Volvo greenhouse it doesn't have to be that hot - you end up with a large version of a solar powered Easy Bake oven. I know the pain! On sunny days in the summer my 142 is a morning / evening car.

An inoperative thermostat which causes the engine to run cold will hurt fuel mileage slightly because the D jet will enrich the fuel mix to assist smooth cold operation. Leaky fuel fittings probably don't help either. What color are your plug tips? Are they pretty dark which would suggest that you might have a mixture problem?

[spiked60]

Black leather seats and a black interior with no air - period. Add a bright sunny day and with that huge Volvo greenhouse it doesn't have to be that hot - you end up with a large version of a solar powered Easy Bake oven. I know the pain! On sunny days in the summer my 142 is a morning / evening car.

An inoperative thermostat which causes the engine to run cold will hurt fuel mileage slightly because the D jet will enrich the fuel mix to assist smooth cold operation. Leaky fuel fittings probably don't help either. What color are your plug tips? Are they pretty dark which would suggest that you might have a mixture problem?

I didn't pull the injectors....... I replaced them in place...

I was thinking that about the temp and fuel economy, will road trip next week to check it out!

[spiked60]

After getting home from a bike ride, ran it for a few minutes, nothing of concern with the fuel, so fingers crossed we're good to go.

I've been slowly using some high grade (bike) lubricant on the throttle cable under the hood, working it in, today I finally wiped off the old gunk (probably white lithium grease), and the cable finally started to move free.

Took her for a drive around the block, definitely accelerates better, specifically, the gas pedal moves freely once again, that is pretty exciting as well!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BjWAyPOF...=1i817v64jq4j9

(I am reminded though that I need to fix my front turn signal bulbs still, they randomly work, and need to lower the wiper arm)

I have a show in July in Chicago, I'm planning on leaving early and returning late to survive the heat and will throw in some spare clothes

[spiked60]

Another drive to Chicago, made it here without incident, although after grabbing a sandwich I did experience the hot motor not wanting to start, after a few attempts it cleaned up, but something to be aware of.

In a modern street scene car show, the general public lived the civic type R next to me, only a few people appreciated the old timer lop.

Spent a few hours on the paint last night, a long way to go, but it did well, the chrome cleaned up and the paint is looking better, for a driver with 200k, no complaints.

But now a 2 hour drive home late at night, we'll see how that goes.
(bonus pic of my stereo until I sort out replacing the speakers that are in the car already)

[142 Guy]

The paint is looking pretty good in the photos. The Civic Type R is a fine car; but, anybody with the money can have a Type R. It doesn't take any particular effort or skill to show up with a Civic Type R, just money. If I want to see a new Type R I will go to the dealer show room. In 30 + years a well turned out 2018 Type R would be interesting to see.

Hot restart is a problem on the D jet. After shut down on a hot engine, the injectors heat soak. The fuel flow rate on the injectors drops when they get really hot resulting in lean operation and difficult starting. Once you do get it started, it may run like crap for a minute or so until gasoline flow through the injector body cools the injector off and the fuel flow rate assumes its normal value.

Volvo / Bosch seems to have become aware of the problem after the system had been in production. Volvo's patch for the problem was to install insulating phenolic washers on the bolt that attaches the injector holder to the head. The washers are 38A in the picture in post #36. A fatter base O ring (#38) is required when these insulating washers are installed. The washers slow down ( not eliminate) heat transfer from the head to the injector body. They reduce the lean operation on hot restart problem; but, they don't eliminate it. They can turn a B20E / B30E from a car that is exceedingly hard to start when hot to one that starts more reliably; but, still has slight driveability issues until the injectors cool off.

The washers appear to have been a retrofit for owners that complained rather than a recall item. My 1971 never had the washers installed and I have talked to 1972 owners who had F series engines with and without the washers. Perhaps check to see if your engine has the washers installed. If it doesn't, the washers are available and installing them may help with starting. The other trick to help with a really hot restart is after turning the key to run and allowing the fuel pump to prime, press the gas pedal to the floor and release it. When the throttle switch goes open it pulses the injectors admitting fuel. This additional fuel may help getting the engine started on hot restart. You will probably need to experiment to make sure you don't over do it and flood the engine.

Volvo B20 / B30 E and F engines were not the only engines with hot restart problems with EFI. Although the B20 / B30 engine design where the injectors could receive radiant energy from the exhaust manifold probably makes the problem worse on the B20 B30. A number of other manufactures had problems with this right up into the eighties and later. Jeeps with the old in line 4 and 6 cylinder engines had insulator blankets and wrapped the injectors in thermal socks to try and control the hot restart problem.

Having replaced the D jet controller with a MSExtra 2 on my car, I can use firmware configuration settings to greatly reduce the hot restart and driveability problem.

[spiked60]

Will have to add those injector spacers to my list of things to do, I’m thinking this winter I will have plenty of projects to keep me busy when I can’t drive this old car.
*after rereading, I remember my 300zx had a fan that would cool the top of the motor, I bet it was heat/injector related*

I found a random article online where a guy did a bit of work in helping the paint look good on an old yellow 142, so I kind of followed his lead. I don’t have a polisher, so all by hand:
Meguiar’s Smooth Surface Clay Bar
Meguiar’s M2 Mirror Glaze Fine-Cut Cleaner
Meguiar’s M7 Mirror Glaze Show Car Glaze
Meguiar’s Ultimate Paste Wax

Honestly the paint needs a more aggressive grit to start to work out decades of spots and scratches, there are also several places where paint is needed.
- Numerous door and hood edge chips down to metal, a foot long scratch over the passenger front wheel, etc.
- There are 2 outward dents on the trunk (as though it got closed on something too large) and one of them has broken the paint fully.
- A ton of minor door dings down the body & roof
- Drivers side rear quarter panel is dented in an inch or so and where the bumper hit the body, all paint is gone.

Pulling the chrome wheel covers off and polishing with a good chrome polish helped a ton, removed a fair amount of rust on the rings, but not all of it, may source new 15” trim rings down the road since a few of these are pretty scratched up.

I am looking at getting paint to remedy a lot of this, but since my grandpa had it repainted years back, I may have to go to a body shop to get the paint matched, there is a slight variation when you open the trunk/hood and compare the original to the new paint, but we’ll see. If I can get the big dents fixed, and the paint touched up where needed, I think it will do wonders, as is this weekend’s detailing added a noticeable shine to the car and gave it a nice slick feeling that it didn’t have before. I need to spend some time learning more about detailing, that’s for sure.

[142 Guy]

If I need to do a major paint correction, I start out with the clay bar and then do Meguiars 105 Ultracut on an orange buffer pad followed up by Meguiars 205 Ultra Finish Polish on a grey pad of black pad (something softer than an orange pad). On an older car I generally only need to do the 105 once for major correction and then use the 205 at most once a year or less depending on how much use / exposure the car gets. I still have my first bottle of 105 in the garage. I like the Rockwell DA buffer because it greatly reduces the risk of tearing through the clear coat.

[spiked60]

First, if anyone is in the market, there’s a ’72 164e (4spd) up for grabs in Colorado. An enthusiast is moving and has to clear out. It’s sat in the woods of his property for many many years un moved. Before sitting it needed brakes and now the instrument cluster is gone. It was converted to a manual by the prior owner, so it has the full M410 driveline (why I wanted it).

I just can’t get it back to my place economically so I have to pass on it. (insert sad feelings here) It’d be ~$400 to put a hitch/harness on my S60, ~$400 in gas, and a solid 35 hours in the car getting there and back, I just can’t do that right now :/


If anyone is interested I can put you in touch with him.


As for MY 164e, the temp is creeping up at stop lights, so I just ordered a new water pump on rock auto, hoping it’s just this as pulling the radiator is a bit more work, but I do expect that will be on the list of smart things to do in the future. The water system was pretty funky when I flushed it, so hopefully this helps stabilize things. I am tempted with the prospect of E-fans to regulate temps better, as well as drive the temps down after parking the car to help combat heat soak, the reality is I’m not doing a factory restore on this car, more of a resto-mod feel, so E-fans aren’t a problem in my mind. Time will tell.


Also the suspension, I’m back on that, definitely needs work. My “helper” in the rear end didn’t do much, so I’m back on the bandwagon looking at the lowering springs and new shocks, I’m thinking that’s the best solution to freshen her up. I’d love to do airbags to give me a good ride height and the option to go low (there’s a guy on social media I follow who did this w/ his ’59 PV544 and it is inspiring), but that’s way more money than I’m in the market to spend.


Otherwise, enjoying the occasional drive, got kinda burned out on shows last month so taking it easy until the next bbq/meet in July.


But damn, to see that 72 w/ a manual gearbox (and any spare parts) leave my grasp, well that kinda sucks.




Now to sign up for my next ultra marathon to stay focused...

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[142 Guy]

If you have drained the cooling system to replace the coolant pump, removal of the radiator to take it to a rad shop to have it cleaned out in a caustic bath and then pressure tested is not that much more work. Plus if the coolant pump is not the problem, you are going to hate having to re do the work.

My 140 has the crossflow radiator as opposed to the vertical channels in the 164 rad. The bottom 25 - 30% of the rad was plugged about 1/2 way across the rad which significantly impaired cooling. A trip to the rad shop worked wonders.

The B20 and B30 get temperature gauge creep at a stop light because of the location of the temperature sensor way at the back of the head. On my B20E, because I have replaced the D jet with Megasquirt I can monitor the temperature on the fuel injection sensor which is right up at the front of the block where the thermostat is. When the car is in motion and the there is lots of coolant flow, both temp sensors read within 1-2 deg C of each other. When I come to a stop, the front sensor remains pretty constant and the rear sensor starts to creep up. Once the engine speeds up the rear sensor temp starts dropping again as there is increased coolant flow.

One problem that can contribute to the back of the head running hot is a loose water distribution tube that has rotated. There is a tube (at least on the B20 there is and a B30 is just 1.5x a B20) that runs the length of the head. The tube has holes along its length which are used to direct coolant flow to the individual cylinders. The tube is accessible from that large freeze plug in the front of the head in the thermostat housing. With the thermostat out and the coolant level dropped you should be able to see / feel the tube with your finger. I think the tube is probably swedged in place; but they come loose which allows them to rotate and the coolant ports no longer point in the right direction. The bigger problem is that if the tube becomes really loose coolant can by-pass the tube resulting in poor flow to the back of the head. Something to check when you have the coolant dropped to replace the pump. If you have a super loose tube, you can probably re swedge it; but, that would require removal of that large freeze plug in the head so that you could extract the tube so that you could figure out how the ports are to be oriented.

[MonzaA4]

Your car looks great! The paint really pops - did you do any more buffing/polishing?

I just can’t get it back to my place economically so I have to pass on it. (insert sad feelings here) It’d be ~$400 to put a hitch/harness on my S60, ~$400 in gas, and a solid 35 hours in the car getting there and back, I just can’t do that right now :/

One last crazy idea: Look up a towing company that's local to the guy in Colorado and have him tow the car to a local wrecking yard. Have that guy cut out the pedal box (and any other key bits) and mail them to you. Don't give up the dream!

As for MY 164e, the temp is creeping up at stop lights

My car does the same thing occasionally but I think it's normal, as 142 Guy said. I replaced my thermostat with a lower temp unit and that helped some. On really hot days (~90s F), it's worse, but no longer a huge concern of mine as it always drops back down nicely when moving. I may take my radiator to a shop this fall to have it checked and/or reconditioned as needed. I agree with 142 Guy that I'd prioritize those 2 things before immediately changing the water pump. But with the rad out, you'll have better access to the pump anyway. Might as well check off ALL the boxes!

Also the suspension, I’m back on that, definitely needs work.

Cant say enough about Lesjöfors sport springs from Skandix. Looks like about $225 for your car. Perfect height, and with some decent shocks, a surprisingly compliant ride (I used Bilsteins).

http://www.skandix.de/en/spare-parts...ering-kit/696/

Otherwise, enjoying the occasional drive, got kinda burned out on shows last month so taking it easy until the next bbq/meet in July.

Same here, I've been to so many "Cars & Coffee" events lately, they are starting to lose their charm. I'm having more fun wrenching right now anyway. See you at the BBQ!

[spiked60]

Your car looks great! The paint really pops - did you do any more buffing/polishing?



One last crazy idea: Look up a towing company that's local to the guy in Colorado and have him tow the car to a local wrecking yard. Have that guy cut out the pedal box (and any other key bits) and mail them to you. Don't give up the dream!



My car does the same thing occasionally but I think it's normal, as 142 Guy said. I replaced my thermostat with a lower temp unit and that helped some. On really hot days (~90s F), it's worse, but no longer a huge concern of mine as it always drops back down nicely when moving. I may take my radiator to a shop this fall to have it checked and/or reconditioned as needed. I agree with 142 Guy that I'd prioritize those 2 things before immediately changing the water pump. But with the rad out, you'll have better access to the pump anyway. Might as well check off ALL the boxes!



Cant say enough about Lesjöfors sport springs from Skandix. Looks like about $225 for your car. Perfect height, and with some decent shocks, a surprisingly compliant ride (I used Bilsteins).

http://www.skandix.de/en/spare-parts...ering-kit/696/



Same here, I've been to so many "Cars & Coffee" events lately, they are starting to lose their charm. I'm having more fun wrenching right now anyway. See you at the BBQ!

I dunno, the temp starts to rise immediately when I sit for more than a few seconds, I can't believe that's normal. But I'll sit on the water pump for a bit until I pull the radiator. I found the 190* thermostat as factory installed, I installed a 180* optional, and have a 160* sitting on the workbench if needed, but don't want to go too cool unnecessarily.

I know the radiator is not new, pulling it and having it serviced is on my list, perhaps I'll move that up, or, just ride carefully and deal with this in the winter.
I will also check into that cooling tube next when I get into the cooling system,


I've yet to buy from Skandix, but I know VP Auto has the sport springs in stock for the same price, I'll have to do a little research on shocks first.

There's still a margin of hope for the manual, but it just was too much going on to make it work, but we'll see what the future holds lol.


And yeah, after the Chicago/Patrick Volvo event, I finally got around to doing some light scratch remover and glaze and polish, didn't do miracles, but did indeed improve the look and feel of the paint noticeably.

[142 Guy]

If the temperature gauge creep still has you concerned, here is a little test. When you come to a stop on a hot day and the gauge starts to creep with the engine idling, open up the heater valve with the control on the dash. You don't need to open the heater doors or turn on the heater fan - that makes it really uncomfortable. If the temperature gauge starts to return to normal, you know that the temperature creep problem is strictly due to reduced flow through the head at idle. The inlet for the heater core is right at the back of the head and the outlet goes back to the pump. When you open the heater valve you create a path for additional coolant flow through the head which drops the temperature at the back of the head at idle.

Driving around like this can be uncomfortably warm because the heater vent doors inevitably leak air and when the car is moving there will be some natural air flow through the heater. If the temperature creep bugs you, you can do a temporary 'summer fix' by disconnecting the heater lines and running a hose from the back of the head right over to the return pipe to the pump. This would allow coolant to flow through that path continuously just like it does when the heater valve is open. You would want to plug off the existing heater lines to minimize coolant loss and prevent bugs from crawling into the hose while you are driving like this. Come cool weather, you can re attach the heater hoses.

The Volvo Ramco heater valves seem to have a problem shutting off the flow of coolant which leads to unwanted heating in the summer. On my 140, the valve is new and I know that the problem is related to the way the control cable is attached to the valve and that it lacks the mechanical advantage to get that final closure on the valve (I get total closure by reaching under the dash and pushing on the valve actuation arm to close it. I have been thinking about an alternative heaer valve arrangement. On some of the GM products (I think the Venture van and others) GM used an H style (4 port) heater valve. In the closed position coolant entered in one port and was directed back through an exit port to the pump inlet. In the valve open position, that path was closed and coolant exited the valve through a heater inlet port, returned from the heater to the valve through a heater return port and then back out the valve through the exit port. This valve could solve two problems. When closed it would circulate coolant through the back of the head continuously reducing the gauge creep problem and it would address the seemingly chronic problem with the leaky Ramco valves using a fairly inexpensive commonly available valve (I think they are around $40 at Rock Auto). I have toyed with this idea for a bit. The biggest impediment for me is where to locate the valve and how to do the installation so you don't have this dogs breakfast of cooling hoses running all over the place.

As a final note, your temperature creep problem could be related to your coolant pump. This would be quite rare and is usually only a problem if someone used straight water as a coolant or allowed the coolant to get really old which resulted in loss of the corrosion inhibitors. The pump impeller is usually steel and if it gets significantly corroded it loses pumping efficiency. This would be unusual on a B20 / B30 engine because the whole engine is iron and based upon the galvanic series chart, you would expect the water pump housing to disappear before the impeller does; but, strange stuff does happen.

[ejones565]

Excellent work! Great story. My first Volvo was a '73 164E. I miss that car - reliving through a '12 S60 T6. The straight 6 engine has always been a thing of beauty in my eyes. Would love to do you what you're doing one day with a 164E. Hoping to do that after kids grow up and I have more time (and hopefully more money )

[SidecarDoug]

You might want to try here for parts - the owner is a pilot who operates a warehouse in the U.S., but has his headquarters in Stockholm. I recently got all the weatherstripping, rubber, window channels, fender bolts sets and a bunch of other goodies for my '58 PV444 from him- good prices, too. He also sells body parts, electrical, trim parts, lenses, patch panels, etc.
www.ClassicVolvoRestorations.com

[66Wildcat]

The cooling creep could also be the fan clutch. Normal cooling at speed but creeping when in slow traffic or at stops is a tell-tale sign.
1. Start the car (cold) with the hood open and note if the fan is turning, increase the engine RPM and note if the fan turns faster and the noise increases, if it does, first good indication, if it does not increase speed/noise, clutch is bad and needs to be replaced. (Remember, this must be tested after the car has been off for and extended period, over night etc.)
2. Leave engine running and note if the fan starts to slow down after 2-5 minutes, speed/noise should diminish and even raising the RPM, the fan should not make as much noise as when first starting, if it does slow, this is the second good indication. If speed/noise does not decrease, clutch may be “frozen” and should be replaced.
3. Leave the engine idle and watch the temperature indicator. When normal operating temperature has been reached, some increase in fan speed/noise should be noted, in particular when the RPM is increased. If temperature is fairly stable and the fan noise/speed increases or cycles, third good indication. If temperature indication continues to increase, with no increase in fan noise/speed, clutch is defective and should be replaced.
4. After the engine is at normal operating temperature or above, is the only time that the “rolled up newspaper” test that many people talk about should be performed! Take some newspaper and roll it up into a long narrow tube. Be careful, keep hands and fingers away from the fan while performing this test! With the engine at full operating temperature and idling, take the rolled up paper and insert it on the back side of the fan and try to reach the hub of the fan avoiding the blades until close to the hub. Push the rolled paper at the fan increasing the friction to the hub area of the fan. If the fan can not be stopped easily this is the fourth good indication, if it can be stopped the clutch is defective and should be replaced. Again, this test can only be performed when the engine is at or above full operating temperature.
Again, BE CAREFUL putting newspaper in your fan! We don't want you to lose any fingers!
Steve

[spiked60]

Sorry for the absence, I ramped up my running habit and recently ran a 43+ mile trail race around Mt St Helen's, but now that the weather is slightly cooler I've done some more driving.

Haven't really touched the mechanics of things, just driven her and enjoyed it.

Running the heat dial to warm does drop engine temps, and I've discovered a flaky or bad switch for the fan, so that has stopped working reliably (the knee for defrost or feet).
But the AC fan kinda works, but the AC isn't making cold air (nor is the air flow much).

Discovered that the drivers side window now slips back, so I have to hold it while cranking it up, that's next on my list lol.

I did finally get around to painting the rear light trim and license plate light cover new silver, it's not as pretty as oem, but it's economical and a vast improvement (thanks to fellow member for that advice!)

Ordered a new set of rear mud flaps and a used metal 200,000 mile badge for the grill, I believe Volvo is doing stickers now? I dunno, I'm at 191,1xx today so it'll be a little while before I get to that.

Lots of stuff to do, just requires time and money, little bit at a time!

Here are some miscellaneous pics from the last few weeks/months.

(sorry, Tapatalk makes in line images less than simple)

[spiked60]

Drove down in a super hot couple of weekends for meets, first 2 pics are at a dealer event, last one was just a Minnesota/Wisconsin/Illinois meeting (drove my S60 to the 2nd one)

@MonzaA4

[northNH]

Enjoyed reading about your journey with your lovely 164...
Re: adding OEM foglights (truly the cat's meow for these cars):
https://www.wilpac.nl/index.php?rout...roduct_id=2120

Ordered a set myself last week for this remarkable recent barn find:

'69, 120K miles, single owner with original paint and interior, 4spd/OD, AC, faded but virtually rust free:

[MonzaA4]

I did finally get around to painting the rear light trim and license plate light cover new silver, it's not as pretty as oem, but it's economical and a vast improvement (thanks to fellow member for that advice!)

Looks terrific - huge improvement! Love the photos too. Ever since that event in Oak Park, when my car ejected it's excess coolant (see photo), I haven't had to touch it. And now that the temperature has finally cooled off, we're finally into some great driving weather.

[MonzaA4]

Also, if you don't plan on towing anything, I'd lose that trailer hitch. I took mine off last year and really cleaned up the rear, not mention lightening it up by about 100 pounds!

[spiked60]

Also, if you don't plan on towing anything, I'd lose that trailer hitch. I took mine off last year and really cleaned up the rear, not mention lightening it up by about 100 pounds!

I was thinking exactly that, I'll be under there mounting the mud flaps and hitting any chipped undercarriage with rust protection paint, was debating painting or removing the tow bar

[spiked60]

Enjoyed reading about your journey with your lovely 164...
Re: adding OEM foglights (truly the cat's meow for these cars):
https://www.wilpac.nl/index.php?rout...roduct_id=2120

Ordered a set myself last week for this remarkable recent barn find:

'69, 120K miles, single owner with original paint and interior, 4spd/OD, AC, faded but virtually rust free:

That is beautiful!

I'm honestly looking more at adding bumper mounted auxiliary lights, cheaper and more efficient

[spiked60]

More rear end work.

Removed the hitch to stay off.
Pulled the bumper to try and smash it straight, that aluminum is pretty resilient lol, and I have to be careful with the cracked section. Not having great luck, so I may veto that and just move onto polish and reinstalling.

Had surprisingly excellent results with a rubber hammer and some wood blocks, both of the bottoms of the wells in the trunk needed a little tlc, as well as a noticeable dent in the drivers side rear panel (between the marker light and tail light), it's not perfect but is greatly improved, may try to get better results this week.

Also hit the black sections with some new paint (and inside the trunk a little paint to prevent rust from happening), will probably order new rubber plugs, or just leave open for draining.
And the installed the missing mud flap with an ebay special, I ordered a set so they'd look the same but one was blank, still waiting for resolution on that front.

Obligatory vanity pic as well

[142 Guy]

It will definitely look much better with the hitch off. Your painted taillight trim and license plate light also look good.

If the bumper work does not prove successful, the 164 probably has the same rear bumper as the 140 so you might be able to source a suitable replacement if there are any salvaged 140s close to you. On my 1971 140, the aluminum core of the bumper was wrapped with a thin sheet of polished metal. Moisture had got between the cover and the aluminum core resulting in a lot of pitting on the core. I ended up removing the cover and having all the pits filled and then painted the core to color match the body. Your car being later, it almost looks like Volvo eliminated the cover and just polished the aluminum? If you have a crack in the aluminum bumper, once straightened a good welder can fix that up for you fairly easily. You would then just have to grind down to match and polish. I had a few holes in mine from an original Volvo fixed hitch attached to the body and the bottom of the bumper. The welder got those filled up nicely.

With respect to the dent in the rear quarter, if the paint is intact pay a visit to one of those paintless dent repair places. Your dent is definitely beyond a ding; but, the good dent repair guys can do some pretty amazing repairs for a reasonable price.

With respect to the holes at the bottom of the wells behind the rear wheels, I would be inclined to leave them open even though it does allow road debris in. I replaced those wells on my car when I had the body work done and the replacement wells came with a flat spot where the holes would be; but, no holes. I figured that I was doing a complete reseal on the body and putting all new gaskets in, so I don't need drains because my trunk will be dry. As if! Even with fresh gaskets and seam sealer, I still accumulate about 15 ml or so of water in the bottom of each of those wells after a car wash. I have chased a number of sources of leaks and eliminated the big ones such as the drain under the air extraction vents under the rear glass; but, I am still accumulating water in the trunk, either coming in under that aluminum cover at the back edge of the trunk or around the taillight buckets. I am now resigned to the fact that Volvo 140 trunks are only moderately water resistant and that water is going to accumulate in those areas and I just dry them out after every wash or on that rare occasion when the car gets caught in the rain.