"Real" AWD Upgrade - Improved Power Split - Gen 3 Haldex - Page 2
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    1. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by MooseTech View Post
      Nice! Love it when people leave their keyboards and go do something

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    3. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by boulderc30 View Post
      Part number is 5WP22228-02.
      From a 2005 V8 XC90.
      Total price out the door: $11.51
      Glad to hear we have another success story! I'm going to add your part number to my original post.

      Let us know if you experience any big changes in fuel economy and how well the rear diff holds up with time. We're all still in an experimental realm here.

      Quote Originally Posted by storsav View Post
      So the controller looks the same, but has different manufacturer part number than the original post. Will they work the same? Any opinions here?
      All the controllers are going to look the same. After some additional searching of the above part number, it is a different manufacturer's part number but it shares the same Volvo part number. I'm having a hard time finding exactly what changed, but as long as it's the same Volvo part number and is giving the same improved results, it should be good.

      Anyone else who tests this, let us know if you're also finding a different manufacturer's part number.

    4. #38
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      It is crazy how a module like the dem can be a plug and play from a completely different car. Having a V8 S80 with the gen 3, the front wheels do chirp as well, but that may be from the instant power of the V8.

      It is almost imperceptible in this video https://youtu.be/K2mdm_b6qb8

      As far as worrying about the rear diff, Volvo usually uses pretty strong diffs. I would be more concerned about the collar sleeve handling the added stress. At least that is much easier and cheaper to replace though!
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    6. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by MooseTech View Post


      Have you added a gen 3 to a gen 2 car? Because if we are still talking theory, i'm not interested.

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      My car came with GEN III.

      Not really theory the pressure controls the clutch engagement force and speed. If your clutch was engaged at 40 psi without slip 80 psi would make it faster and capable of holding more torque before slipping (but only if slipping was occurring before). Although your not sending more torque to the rear with this DEM change, just able to apply better what was being sent in a case where clutch slippage was occurring ( if it were previously occurirng). The front diff is gears so torque going to the rear will be at the Volvo designed amount and what gets applied at the rear a function of the clutches ability to apply and hold the torque.

      So your GEN IIs don’t have the electric pump and just the hydraulic? Mine has both.


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    7. #40
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      Found an old Haldex post on the R Forum here: https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?76471


      That includes this tidbit about the different controllers:
      So, I was on the Volvo website and found this info, thought I'd share since everone is always speculating on this stuff...

      Jan 17, 2005 ID:2547

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Finely tuned heart of Volvo AWD technology has distinctive beat

      The technology that transfers power to the rear drive wheels in the Volvo XC70 Cross Country may look like the same all-wheel drive system that is in the Volvo V50 T5 AWD, but it is the clever tuning of the system to the different vehicles that makes Volvo AWD both predictable and safe.

      The Volvo all-wheel drive system, installed as standard equipment or as an available option in the all-new S40 sedan and V50 sports wagon, S60 sports sedan, V70 wagon, S80 luxury sedan and the popular XC70 and XC90, looks virtually identical in every application. And while the computer-controlled unit that transfers power back and forth between the front and rear wheels has the same part number, in fact it has six different “personalities” depending on the vehicle in which it is installed.

      The system, created by Haldex of Sweden, uses a mechanical pump, control valve and “wet” multi-plate clutch to distribute the power to the rear wheels. When front and rear wheels are rotating at the same speed, no power is transferred to the rear wheels. The instant that the front wheels begin to lose traction and spin, the system introduces power to the rear. A small auxiliary electrical pump is used to “pre-pressurize” the system so that power transfer can occur almost instantly. The difference in rotational speed between the slipping front wheels and the rear wheels causes the main pump (located at the rear differential) to force highly pressurized oil to the wet clutch plates in the rear differential, pushing the plates together to transfer power to the rear wheels.

      The system is controlled by a computer module mounted on the rear differential that activates the electric pump and oil control valve. The differential module communicates with the engine control module (ECM) and brake control module via the car’s Multiplex network to determine when the front (driven) wheels begin to lose traction and to anticipate different driving situations.

      Because it is used in vehicles as different as the XC90 and the S40, with their different weight, wheelbase, track and other characteristics, Volvo engineers determined it was essential that the system be tuned to the specific vehicle. The engineers’ goal was to not only maintain predictable handling for each vehicle whether or not the AWD system was active, their objective was also to maintain consistent and predictable handling among all the various vehicles.

      Since the first Volvo with AWD was introduced, the handling characteristics have been the same. The cars were designed to have a slight “understeer” in extreme cornering situations, regardless of the AWD system’s activity. The engineers reasoned that a slight understeer was safer for most drivers whether the vehicle is equipped with AWD or not. But that meant that the rate and amount of power transfer to the rear wheels had to differ in each application.

      The solution was six different software parameters programmed into the electronic control unit of the Haldex coupling. Once installed, the coupler controller determines which car it is in, then selects and uses the software parameters for that car to run the AWD system.

      There are different software parameters for XC90, S80 AWD and S60 AWD, while the V70 and XC70 share programming and the new S40 and V50 also get unique parameters. The S60 R and V70 R performance cars have their own programming (the system in the S60 R and V70 R works with the revolutionary Four-C electronically controlled chassis to create a handling profile slightly different than on the other variants). The new XC90 V8 uses a slightly different Haldex system with an enhancement called InstantTrac.

      Using the software parameters for the specific car, the electronic control module opens and closes the valve, which controls oil flow between the pump and the wet clutch pack. The valve opens when the module detects a loss of traction. The controller measures the amount of wheelspin (and resultant difference in rotational speed between front and rear wheels) and determines how far the valve opens and the amount of oil pressure applied to the wet clutch by the pump, which in turn dictates how much power is transferred to the rear wheels in each model.

      By measuring front wheel spin, throttle position and other data, the system can determine how quickly to distribute power, and how much power to distribute. When accelerating on a difficult surface like snow, for example, the rear wheels can be engaged quickly with maximum power transfer. During a low speed cornering or parking maneuver the system knows that the difference in speed between the wheels does not require the rear wheels to be engaged. As a result, the inertia other systems experience in similar circumstances is avoided.

      In normal driving, with the AWD system inactive, 95 per cent of power is delivered to the front wheels. Depending on the vehicle, the traction and other factors, the system can transfer up to 95 per cent of the power to the rear wheels.

      The performance of the system is also speed-related. The faster the vehicle is traveling, the less the need for the electric pump to pre-pressurize the system.

      Best of all, the Volvo AWD operates completely automatically, independent of the driver. Many drivers will never know that a clever AWD system with multiple personalities has just helped them around a slippery corner.


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Media Information
      Models: R, S40, S60, S80, V50, V70, XC70, XC90

      Concepts: N/A

      Model Years: N/A

      Categories: Safety, Technology

      Taken from: https://www.media.volvocars.co...=2547

      All-Wheel Drive with Instant Traction™ is a standard S60 R feature designed to enhance road grip. Computer-controlled Haldex AWD delivers up to 50 percent more torque to the rear axle only when needed, such as during takeoff. Instant Traction employs a one-way pre-charging valve to the AWD system that maintains a torque load of 59 foot pounds, which is available instantly. Prior to Instant Traction, if the AWD system sensed that the front wheels were losing traction, one-seventh of a wheel rotation occurred before it began redirecting torque to the wheel with traction. That rotation could influence performance under certain conditions.

      Taken from: https://www.media.volvocars.co...=3810

      Cheers.

    8. #41
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      Can't wait to call some junk yards tomorrow I'm very excited to try this !I'm assuming my best bet is to just ask if they have the proper xc90 years?

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    9. #42
      Member jondevieonS40's Avatar
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      and that its a V8! question MNIWT - do you by chance know what happens if you put the gen II into the xc90? does it still work just changes to a P1 split?
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    10. #43
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      Quote Originally Posted by wernerj18 View Post
      Can't wait to call some junk yards tomorrow I'm very excited to try this !I'm assuming my best bet is to just ask if they have the proper xc90 years?
      It's more important that you find a V8. Any V8 XC90 will have this module, but there are a lot of different engines in the XC90 that will not.
      If the yards have a 3.2L, then find out what years they have.

      Quote Originally Posted by jondevieonS40 View Post
      question MNIWT - do you by chance know what happens if you put the gen II into the xc90? does it still work just changes to a P1 split?
      I'm not sure, we're all still in unchartered territory here.

    11. #44
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      Quote Originally Posted by storsav View Post
      Found an old Haldex post on the R Forum here: https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?76471


      That includes this tidbit about the different controllers:
      So, I was on the Volvo website and found this info, thought I'd share since everone is always speculating on this stuff...

      Jan 17, 2005 ID:2547

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Finely tuned heart of Volvo AWD technology has distinctive beat

      The technology that transfers power to the rear drive wheels in the Volvo XC70 Cross Country may look like the same all-wheel drive system that is in the Volvo V50 T5 AWD, but it is the clever tuning of the system to the different vehicles that makes Volvo AWD both predictable and safe.

      The Volvo all-wheel drive system, installed as standard equipment or as an available option in the all-new S40 sedan and V50 sports wagon, S60 sports sedan, V70 wagon, S80 luxury sedan and the popular XC70 and XC90, looks virtually identical in every application. And while the computer-controlled unit that transfers power back and forth between the front and rear wheels has the same part number, in fact it has six different “personalities” depending on the vehicle in which it is installed.

      The system, created by Haldex of Sweden, uses a mechanical pump, control valve and “wet” multi-plate clutch to distribute the power to the rear wheels. When front and rear wheels are rotating at the same speed, no power is transferred to the rear wheels. The instant that the front wheels begin to lose traction and spin, the system introduces power to the rear. A small auxiliary electrical pump is used to “pre-pressurize” the system so that power transfer can occur almost instantly. The difference in rotational speed between the slipping front wheels and the rear wheels causes the main pump (located at the rear differential) to force highly pressurized oil to the wet clutch plates in the rear differential, pushing the plates together to transfer power to the rear wheels.

      The system is controlled by a computer module mounted on the rear differential that activates the electric pump and oil control valve. The differential module communicates with the engine control module (ECM) and brake control module via the car’s Multiplex network to determine when the front (driven) wheels begin to lose traction and to anticipate different driving situations.

      Because it is used in vehicles as different as the XC90 and the S40, with their different weight, wheelbase, track and other characteristics, Volvo engineers determined it was essential that the system be tuned to the specific vehicle. The engineers’ goal was to not only maintain predictable handling for each vehicle whether or not the AWD system was active, their objective was also to maintain consistent and predictable handling among all the various vehicles.

      Since the first Volvo with AWD was introduced, the handling characteristics have been the same. The cars were designed to have a slight “understeer” in extreme cornering situations, regardless of the AWD system’s activity. The engineers reasoned that a slight understeer was safer for most drivers whether the vehicle is equipped with AWD or not. But that meant that the rate and amount of power transfer to the rear wheels had to differ in each application.

      The solution was six different software parameters programmed into the electronic control unit of the Haldex coupling. Once installed, the coupler controller determines which car it is in, then selects and uses the software parameters for that car to run the AWD system.

      There are different software parameters for XC90, S80 AWD and S60 AWD, while the V70 and XC70 share programming and the new S40 and V50 also get unique parameters. The S60 R and V70 R performance cars have their own programming (the system in the S60 R and V70 R works with the revolutionary Four-C electronically controlled chassis to create a handling profile slightly different than on the other variants). The new XC90 V8 uses a slightly different Haldex system with an enhancement called InstantTrac.

      Using the software parameters for the specific car, the electronic control module opens and closes the valve, which controls oil flow between the pump and the wet clutch pack. The valve opens when the module detects a loss of traction. The controller measures the amount of wheelspin (and resultant difference in rotational speed between front and rear wheels) and determines how far the valve opens and the amount of oil pressure applied to the wet clutch by the pump, which in turn dictates how much power is transferred to the rear wheels in each model.

      By measuring front wheel spin, throttle position and other data, the system can determine how quickly to distribute power, and how much power to distribute. When accelerating on a difficult surface like snow, for example, the rear wheels can be engaged quickly with maximum power transfer. During a low speed cornering or parking maneuver the system knows that the difference in speed between the wheels does not require the rear wheels to be engaged. As a result, the inertia other systems experience in similar circumstances is avoided.

      In normal driving, with the AWD system inactive, 95 per cent of power is delivered to the front wheels. Depending on the vehicle, the traction and other factors, the system can transfer up to 95 per cent of the power to the rear wheels.

      The performance of the system is also speed-related. The faster the vehicle is traveling, the less the need for the electric pump to pre-pressurize the system.

      Best of all, the Volvo AWD operates completely automatically, independent of the driver. Many drivers will never know that a clever AWD system with multiple personalities has just helped them around a slippery corner.


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Media Information
      Models: R, S40, S60, S80, V50, V70, XC70, XC90

      Concepts: N/A

      Model Years: N/A

      Categories: Safety, Technology

      Taken from: https://www.media.volvocars.co...=2547

      All-Wheel Drive with Instant Traction™ is a standard S60 R feature designed to enhance road grip. Computer-controlled Haldex AWD delivers up to 50 percent more torque to the rear axle only when needed, such as during takeoff. Instant Traction employs a one-way pre-charging valve to the AWD system that maintains a torque load of 59 foot pounds, which is available instantly. Prior to Instant Traction, if the AWD system sensed that the front wheels were losing traction, one-seventh of a wheel rotation occurred before it began redirecting torque to the wheel with traction. That rotation could influence performance under certain conditions.

      Taken from: https://www.media.volvocars.co...=3810

      Cheers.
      Now this is great find, answers most questions about Volvo Haldex units.
      Last unanswered questions: Does the clutch slippage and the valve movement controls the amount of torque applied or just the valve movement and no clutch slippage is required?

      What this also tells me is even a GEN III on a S40/V50 would benefit from an XC90 V8 DEM if one is looking for more torque transfer, or possibly just the software program it is running would provide to a lesser degree a sportier ride. Looks like all of the Haldex units on Volvo with the maybe the exception of the XC90 have clutch slippage/valving control built into them as a design to only provide a small percentage of torque transfer to the rear.

      I'd be interested to one of you guys do an experiment if your inclined?

      1. Run your old DEM with the new hardware: (S40/V50 DEM with XC90 Valve)
      2. Run the new XC90 DEM (software) with the S40/V50 Valve.

      This could possibly provide 3 levels of upgrade (Mild, Intermediate and Insane)!
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    12. #45
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      ^Thanks for posting the info from Volvo.

      So apparently I need to get one of these V8 modules - or take off my stupid stickers. And seeing as I'm quite attached to said stickers...

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    13. #46
      Junior Member Nits's Avatar
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      Went down to the scrap yard that had four V8s this morning. All four rear axle assemblies had been sold off already. I'll keep looking.

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    14. #47
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      Moosetech, will one from an 06 V8 work? haldex number is the same EXCEPT for an 03 at the end. About to go pick it up

    15. #48
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      I just bought one from a yard in Alabama for $70 shipped. Found it on Car-Part.com. There are tons of them listed on there.

      On Car-part, you want to choose "computer box, not engine" and then "Diff Lock, Case Mounted" with the part number 36001160. I also made sure I got one that was verified to come from a 4.4 V8 model as a lot of the yards just "guess" about which number it goes under, seeing as it isn't written on the actual unit. Even the comments on many of them say "CHECK ID" or "GUESS ID" as they don't know what they have. So be careful. I also made sure the guy put a note that I needed the solenoid and the pressure switch to come with it.

      Last edited by walky_talky20; 05-01-2018 at 11:25 AM.
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    16. #49
      Member jondevieonS40's Avatar
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      "Real" AWD Upgrade - Improved Power Split - Gen 3 Haldex

      I keep finding ones for v70's. there's one 2005 at the upullit but doesn't say if it's a V8. I dont know what other scrapyards to check that let you pull your own parts.

      Found a bunch on "el Mexican truck" from 100-350$. ( the site Madison c30 mentioned!)

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      Last edited by jondevieonS40; 05-01-2018 at 11:24 AM.
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    17. #50
      Junior Member MooseTech's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MadisonC30 View Post
      Moosetech, will one from an 06 V8 work? haldex number is the same EXCEPT for an 03 at the end. About to go pick it up
      Yes all V8s.

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    18. #51
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      Quote Originally Posted by walky_talky20 View Post
      I just bought one from a yard in Alabama for $70 shipped. Found it on Car-Part.com. There are tons of them listed on there.

      On Car-part, you want to choose "computer box, not engine" and then "Diff Lock, Case Mounted" with the part number 36001160. I also made sure I got one that was verified to come from a 4.4 V8 model.

      Curious if this will come with the solenoid and sensor as well.

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    19. #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by walky_talky20 View Post
      I just bought one from a yard in Alabama for $70 shipped. Found it on Car-Part.com. There are tons of them listed on there.

      On Car-part, you want to choose "computer box, not engine" and then "Diff Lock, Case Mounted" with the part number 36001160. I also made sure I got one that was verified to come from a 4.4 V8 model.

      Great info. This site is excellent but can be difficult to locate the hard to name parts.

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    20. #53
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      Quote Originally Posted by MadisonC30 View Post
      Moosetech, will one from an 06 V8 work? haldex number is the same EXCEPT for an 03 at the end. About to go pick it up
      As long as it's from a V8 model, it should work. Let me know if you're finding other haldex part numbers that match up with the same Volvo part number. I'll keep updating the original post so we have a list going for others to reference.

      Quote Originally Posted by walky_talky20 View Post
      I just bought one from a yard in Alabama for $70 shipped. Found it on Car-Part.com. There are tons of them listed on there.
      Make sure you're getting the solenoid and pressure sensor with that!

    21. #54
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      ^Yes. Edited post.

      I made SURE to have the guy put a note on my order to include the solenoid and the switch. The part had not been pulled yet and he said it would, but I want the note on the receipt to say it, too.
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    22. #55
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      Quote Originally Posted by walky_talky20 View Post
      ^Yes. Edited post.

      I made SURE to have the guy put a note on my order to include the solenoid and the switch. The part had not been pulled yet and he said it would, but I want the note on the receipt to say it, too.

      Looks like MooseTech beat me to both responses by a few seconds, haha.

    23. #56
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIdeasWereTaken View Post

      Looks like MooseTech beat me to both responses by a few seconds, haha.
      Hahah i rather get people double the answers than none at all!

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    24. #57
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      I think Michael hit a nerve here with this bolt-up AWD upgrade (complete with DIY guide and video). This is the fastest thread I've seen on the S40/V50 section in a while.
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    25. #58
      Junior Member MooseTech's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by walky_talky20 View Post
      I think Michael hit a nerve here with this bolt-up AWD upgrade (complete with DIY guide and video). This is the fastest thread I've seen on the S40/V50 section in a while.
      Gotta up that bandwidth!

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      I think the difference between 5Wp33504-01 and 5WP22228-02 is that the first one is from later model years. I just bought a 5WP22228-02 and it was from a 2005 XC90. I saw a few others out there that were also MY 2005. Dunno what changed from there on. Eventually it would be awesome to be able to test all these units side-by-side. If anyone wants to volunteer to test, I'll send my module along for the cause.

    27. #60
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      Quote Originally Posted by storsav View Post
      I think the difference between 5Wp33504-01 and 5WP22228-02 is that the first one is from later model years. I just bought a 5WP22228-02 and it was from a 2005 XC90. I saw a few others out there that were also MY 2005. Dunno what changed from there on. Eventually it would be awesome to be able to test all these units side-by-side. If anyone wants to volunteer to test, I'll send my module along for the cause.
      Whoever picked the part up for $11 should have taken one from every AWD Volvo in the yard! Haha

    28. #61
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      Getting one from a 08 XC90 V8 for $150 CAD, going to test this on a P2.

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      Last edited by Antherzoll; 05-01-2018 at 12:31 PM.
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    29. #62
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      Hope it's not the one I just called and got a quote for


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      Quote Originally Posted by LittleRedRidingHood View Post
      Whoever picked the part up for $11 should have taken one from every AWD Volvo in the yard! Haha
      I checked all of them ahah, many of them were pulled already.

      on a side note for all the other folks, the controller I bought for $11 was a crazy deal- so I picked it up without knowing if it’ll work or not. We need more people to test all different V8 controllers but I cant comment on if or if not itll make a difference on your own car- I just noticed a big difference on mine. If youre going to spend money on something experimental please remember its at your own risk- results arent guarenteed!


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      2009 Cosmic White/Java Brown C30 (@BoulderC30)
      2005 Passion Red V50 (@BoulderV50)

    31. #64
      Member jondevieonS40's Avatar
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      Would it even be worth trying one off a 2.5t? Just for science?


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      [2005 Volvo S40 2.4i][2008 Volvo S40 T5 AWD][2008 Volvo C3 T5 2.0 RS Build][2009 Volvo V50 T5 AWD R-Design][1987 Buick Grand National] "embody God, then go crazy"

    32. #65
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      Quote Originally Posted by jondevieonS40 View Post
      Would it even be worth trying one off a 2.5t? Just for science?


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      probably not, but, science!!!!!


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      2009 Cosmic White/Java Brown C30 (@BoulderC30)
      2005 Passion Red V50 (@BoulderV50)

    33. #66
      Junior Member MooseTech's Avatar
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      We like science!

      Do it up guys.

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    34. #67
      Global Moderator R-Pow3R3d's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIdeasWereTaken View Post
      It's more important that you find a V8. Any V8 XC90 will have this module, but there are a lot of different engines in the XC90 that will not.
      If the yards have a 3.2L, then find out what years they have.
      For anyone looking who is not familiar with XC90's, the most obvious way to tell 07+ is the side view mirrors. If they have the blinkers built into them, then it is 2007 or newer.
      2007 XC90 V8 Sport Passion Red/Off-Black - Serpentine Belt, Tensioner & Idler Pulleys - Spark Plug Replacement - Y-Pipe Replacement
      1990 745 Turbo Intercooler White/Beige
      2007 XC70
      VIDA/DICE Owner - SS Lurker Since 2009 - '06-'07 Transmission Valve Body Info - SR/VR Failing Throttle Body - Replica 18" Pegs - Handbrake Mod
      Current Non-Volvo: 2007 VTX 1800 F3, 2002 VT750DC
      Previous: 2006 S60R, 2004 V70R MT 68k

    35. #68
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      Quote Originally Posted by storsav View Post
      I think the difference between 5Wp33504-01 and 5WP22228-02 is that the first one is from later model years. I just bought a 5WP22228-02 and it was from a 2005 XC90. I saw a few others out there that were also MY 2005. Dunno what changed from there on. Eventually it would be awesome to be able to test all these units side-by-side. If anyone wants to volunteer to test, I'll send my module along for the cause.
      Damn you!! You bought this off eBay yesterday right? I was going to buy this one!
      2005 Volvo V50 T5 AWD M66 (2017 - ) || 1987 Toyota MR2 (2016 - ) || 2002 Lexus IS300 (2016 - ) || 2005 Volvo S40 T5 AWD M66 (2016 - 2019) || 2008 Volvo V50 T5 (2015 - 2016) || 2001 Acura Integra GSR (2010 - 2010) Stolen lol

    36. #69
      Junior Member Nick0matic's Avatar
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      2010 V8 looks weird, also Continental part. LKQ in line so lmk if this will fit ASAP lol.

      http://m.imgur.com/YR97Mam.jpg
      07 V50 T5 AWD | E46 Bi-xenon w/ KBOWE | Projector Info

    37. #70
      Junior Member MooseTech's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nick0matic View Post
      2010 V8 looks weird, also Continental part. LKQ in line so lmk if this will fit ASAP lol.

      http://m.imgur.com/YR97Mam.jpg
      No, don't buy it

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