S90 models and some buying advice
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    1. #1
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      S90 models and some buying advice

      Can anyone just... riff on some general Volvo car buying subjects with me? I'm researching S90s. I've done a few test drives and I dig the car. Maybe this is my next daily driver commuting car?

      S90 production began in Sweden at the Torslanda factory, but soon the 2017 S90 series was discontinued and the S90L began production at the Daqing factory in China.

      The S90L has an extra 5" or so longer wheelbase then the S90, and a panoramic sunroof, but otherwise remains.. the same? Does anyone have any articles or anecdotal evidence that the S90L is a well made vehicle?

      Were all Torslanda produced S90's the 2017 T6 AWD?

      I don't want to appear xenophobic, I just don't trust "new" factories as well as I trust a 56 year old Swedish factory.

      I am wary of manufacturers and new vehicles in general, as we recently had a new vehicle that was a lemon. Granted, that "lemon" that we were recently saddled with came out of a venerable German factory. Maybe I'm just xenophobic and want a car made in Sweden?

      It's a little disturbing to me to read the complaints in this forum about leather dashboards needing replacement and Pilot Assist sensors needing replacement. Is this the wrong time to update my family fleet of vehicles with Volvos? Should I just be patient, buy a used 2015 S60 with low miles, and come back in a year or two? Or should I throw caution to the wind and park a 2017 S90 and a 2019 V90 (OSD pickup) in my driveway??

      There is a 2017 S90 with 20000 miles on it for 32,000 USD. It is not a volvo certified pre-owned vehicle. Is this a trap? Have people been quietly returning their S90s due to manufacturer complaints?

      Sorry for the wall of text. I know I'm new to the forum, but I've been reading this site for a while before registering. My 2001 V70 2.4t with 173,000 miles is one of my all time favorite cars, and sits in a coveted garage space at home right now. Thanks to this forum it is also getting a transmission flush...

      Ben

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    3. #2
      Junior Member jonkoping's Avatar
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      Don't worry about the factory. In fact, the ones coming out of China are generally better made (both because it's a newer factory with less automation, and because it's the second model year).

      Any 2017 is SWB and made in Sweden. T5 and T6 were available.

      Any 2018 is LWB and made in China. T5, T6, and T8 available. Changes are pano roof (awesome), extra legroom, and the "boss button" for the right rear passenger (allows them to control passenger front seat, window shades, sunroof, etc--can be disabled with child locks).

      If you don't mind the length, I would say get the 2018. But if you're like me and 200" is just a bit too much car, I would look at a CPO 2017.
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    4. #3
      Member matt1122's Avatar
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      There aren't really many issues with the Pilot Assist sensors. Are you committed to an inscription? If not, you won't have to worry about the dash peeling anyway. If you plan to go high-miles I'd recommend avoiding the softer leather in the Inscription anyway.

      Considering the great deals available on the S90, I wouldn't bother with a P3 S60 if you'd only keep it for a year or two and be the second owner. You'd probably spend the same amount per year (talking ACTUAL cost of ownership using the depreciation of each vehicle plus costs like maintenance, fuel, insurance, and financing) if you leased a new S90 Momentum for 3 years. Short term ownership of a pre-owned usually doesn't pay off.
      2017 V90 Cross Country T6 AWD | Osmium Grey / Charcoal | Convenience Package, Bowers & Wilkins, HUD, Rear Air Suspension, Polestar Optimization
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    6. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by BenSweed View Post
      There is a 2017 S90 with 20000 miles on it for 32,000 USD. It is not a volvo certified pre-owned vehicle. Is this a trap? Have people been quietly returning their S90s due to manufacturer complaints?
      Probably not a trap. I've been shopping used S90s a lot while waiting on my super delayed CBV order... check the CarFax on it, if it was a buyback it would say so. There's a ton of used 2017s and even 2018s out there, a lot of them are former rentals (and 20,000 miles is right around when the rental fleets sell them back), and a lot are just from people who do ultra short term leases. As for not being CPO, I've seen a lot of dealerships don't directly list their cars as such and instead negotiate that as an add on later, because it lets them list its for thousands less. I'm sure if you wrote to the dealership and ask if they'd be willing to do CPO on it, they would, for more.

    7. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by BenSweed View Post
      Can anyone just... riff on some general Volvo car buying subjects with me? I'm researching S90s. I've done a few test drives and I dig the car. Maybe this is my next daily driver commuting car?

      S90 production began in Sweden at the Torslanda factory, but soon the 2017 S90 series was discontinued and the S90L began production at the Daqing factory in China.

      The S90L has an extra 5" or so longer wheelbase then the S90, and a panoramic sunroof, but otherwise remains.. the same? Does anyone have any articles or anecdotal evidence that the S90L is a well made vehicle?

      Were all Torslanda produced S90's the 2017 T6 AWD?

      I don't want to appear xenophobic, I just don't trust "new" factories as well as I trust a 56 year old Swedish factory.

      I am wary of manufacturers and new vehicles in general, as we recently had a new vehicle that was a lemon. Granted, that "lemon" that we were recently saddled with came out of a venerable German factory. Maybe I'm just xenophobic and want a car made in Sweden?

      It's a little disturbing to me to read the complaints in this forum about leather dashboards needing replacement and Pilot Assist sensors needing replacement. Is this the wrong time to update my family fleet of vehicles with Volvos? Should I just be patient, buy a used 2015 S60 with low miles, and come back in a year or two? Or should I throw caution to the wind and park a 2017 S90 and a 2019 V90 (OSD pickup) in my driveway??

      There is a 2017 S90 with 20000 miles on it for 32,000 USD. It is not a volvo certified pre-owned vehicle. Is this a trap? Have people been quietly returning their S90s due to manufacturer complaints?

      Sorry for the wall of text. I know I'm new to the forum, but I've been reading this site for a while before registering. My 2001 V70 2.4t with 173,000 miles is one of my all time favorite cars, and sits in a coveted garage space at home right now. Thanks to this forum it is also getting a transmission flush...

      Ben
      My trade assist was CPO’d. Even though I was refunded fully.


      They have two types of scenarios. Either NO CPO buyback trade assist with lemon title, or CPO’able with no Lemon title and partial trade assist


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    8. #6
      Member chillg8r's Avatar
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      I own a virtually trouble free 2017 XC90 and am also considering a 2017 S90. My only question mark is I want to see the new S60 and I want to drive my BMW one more year! A low mileage S90 CPO is a steal! In fact you can get an awesome deal on all late model Volvo Sedans, S60’s, S80’s and S 90’s. They’re all great cars at fabulous prices. There is a new loaded 2016 S80 for sale at $15000 below sticker right now on the Volvo website.


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    9. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by chillg8r View Post
      I own a virtually trouble free 2017 XC90 and am also considering a 2017 S90. My only question mark is I want to see the new S60 and I want to drive my BMW one more year! A low mileage S90 CPO is a steal! In fact you can get an awesome deal on all late model Volvo Sedans, S60’s, S80’s and S 90’s. They’re all great cars at fabulous prices. There is a new loaded 2016 S80 for sale at $15000 below sticker right now on the Volvo website.


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      I don't think anyone looking at a S90 will look half a second at a S80 with looks and features dating back in 1999.

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    10. #8
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      That LWB is very appealing now that I'm reminded about the boss button - as we have an 18 month old and I have a family full of `6'3" people. The boss button would come in handy when maneuvering car seats etc. I swear, it's the little things that can make a big difference. The panoramic sunroof is in our current "lemon that we are about to return", and I would miss that as well in the 2017 SWB. Plus... what can I say... I feel like overcompensating and getting the roomiest sedan I can find.

      Funny story. I checked out that 2017 S90 T5 Inscription and in between the salesman pulling the car up and going to get me... two people went and sat inside the vehicle and essentially called "dibs." They ended up buying it on the spot. Was wild... and a bit... I don't know, a bit rude? It can't have been intentional on their part. My wife and I just said c'est la vie, but that was a first for us. The salesman later said, "I thought they were with you!" You had to be there to believe it.

      I think that's great advice to think about the durability of the inscription leather over time. I do plan to have high mileage on my next vehicle. Thanks, I had not considered that. I think the seat extension feature for longer legs had me glued on the inscription trim.

      I am going to take everyone's excellent advice and mull this over a lot longer. I have been eyeing other cars (V90.. S60..) with a little impatience, as I have a technical mountain road to commute on every day, but I'll just drag out the V70 for my commute in the meantime.

      Side note... having a third car has made all the difference in car buying pressure. We are returning our "lemon car" shortly, but, there's no immediate need to replace it because we had the backup car available. Highly recommend everyone have that "burner" car sitting in their garage for such a situation...

      (and I was totally just looking at a 2012 S80 with 30k miles on it for 18000 USD... but I'll pretend I wasn't and we can just move on... It was T6 AWD though so I had to look)

      Hoping to pick up more from the discussion. Nice talking with people about these cars.

    11. #9
      Member chillg8r's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by BeachBoy View Post
      I don't think anyone looking at a S90 will look half a second at a S80 with looks and features dating back in 1999.

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      That’s why it’s $15,000 off list! The reality is that it’s still a great $50k car with a full warranty for less than the cost of a Honda Accord.


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    12. #10
      Junior Member scootss60's Avatar
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      My advice would be to shop the net for a V90 R-Design. I had an S90L; the touring suspension was uninspiring and rather squishy, and the V90 RD gives you a bit more versatility and is slightly shorter and thus more maneuverable. It's the clear winner and feels much more poised on the highway, and is more fun to drive on winding country roads. Plus I find the sport seats in the R totally superior - the bolsters really hold you and they are even cozier than the standard ones, especially with the suede split. My S90L had the inscription trim. The center armrest was uncomfortably hard and the premium leather seats were slippery and were already showing signs of wear at 8K miles.
      Last edited by scootss60; 08-01-2018 at 03:49 PM.
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    13. #11
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      +1 on the sport seats. I have them in my V90CC Ocean Race - but two-tone leather/textile instead of suede - and they are fantastic. Just the the right amount of bolstering but not too much.
      2018 V90CC Ocean Race, Blond/Charcoal Interior, Polestar (OSD July, 2018)

    14. #12
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      That really hits home and makes this more difficult. I do agree that the V90 is the winner and I appreciate that honest review of the S90L. OK, let me ask in a different way.

      With a heavy discount price of 33,000 USD for a 2018 S90L with 20k miles and CPO, for a car I will put 12-15k miles a year on... I feel that is a reasonable price to pay for the use I will have. A daily commuter for the next 5-7 years. In my mind it is the preferred choice over the other sedans of it's class.

      But the V90 after OSD discount and the options I want will be around 54,000. V90 is the car I prefer and the car I see myself owning for longer... providing the car matches up to my hopes for it. So, I will wait and order it exactly how I want it and at the time of my choosing via OSD... a year from now... and just drive my beater S90L to work while I keep the V90 gently used. Meanwhile the people making the V90 get one more year to practice making them.

      Flawless logic or convoluted bovine scatology...? I can't decide yet... eh! It's just that the discount on the S90L is so heavy. If it was closer.. V90 all day long.

      Thanks, going to sleep on it again.

    15. #13
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      Discount of S90 is so sweet. Perfect to give it a try. You will have plenty of time to plan your V90. Maybe after 5years it will become even better.

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    16. #14
      Junior Member Volvolic's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by BenSweed View Post
      With a heavy discount price of 33,000 USD for a 2018 S90L with 20k miles and CPO, for a car I will put 12-15k miles a year on... I feel that is a reasonable price to pay for the use I will have. A daily commuter for the next 5-7 years. In my mind it is the preferred choice over the other sedans of it's class.
      With that price, I probably wouldn't think twice. I put around 25k miles every year on my Vehicle. If a fully equipped V90 CC CPO option was available to me for a great price about a month ago, I would have jumped on it straightaway. I didn't and so I ended up buying a brand new, fully optioned 2018 V90 CC T6 for that (hard-to-digest) extra premium price!

      Unless you're one of those who only (for some reason) buys brand new Cars and doesn't care about depreciation, I would totally recommend the CPO option. Just makes good sense all around. Also, to add to it, Volvo has a really really good CPO warranty so you won't have to worry about that either. A Win-Win in my opinion. A N D, it a 2018 LWB (not a 2017 SWB), so, most (if not all) of the issues & kinks must have been worked out.
      2018 Volvo V90 CC T6 Polestar'd

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    17. #15
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      Test drive, man. I went from an Audi a7 to an 2017 s90 t6 inscription. Volvo is decidedly more luxurious inside but man I miss that torque. S90 does better than expected with its engine. There's some quirky Sensus stuff that I hope gets resolved with the latest dealer software upgrade, getting that done today. Also recommend CPO. Can't imagine having this tech without warranty.

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    18. #16
      Member matt1122's Avatar
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      That's a great option. With the CPO warranty and that price, you're basically buying 5-6 years of use for hopefully only around $40,000 in total.
      2017 V90 Cross Country T6 AWD | Osmium Grey / Charcoal | Convenience Package, Bowers & Wilkins, HUD, Rear Air Suspension, Polestar Optimization
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    19. #17
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      I really appreciate the help. The deal was too good to ignore.

      Yesterday, around noon, I called in a favor and carpooled 3 hours to the dealership where they were selling the CPO 2018 S90 for 33,000. Test drive and inspection went well. I sat down to buy the car.

      Here's the thing though. During the transaction, another salesperson approached and said, "Did you just buy the car we sold twice?"

      Others salespeople gathered. "Yes? What?"

      Another salesman walked up, "I just sold that car to a woman on the phone. We were just working out the transport fees for a 1200 mile transfer..."

      I got the car... with ten minutes to spare. This is after being beaten last Sunday by five minutes. I kid you not. Can't make this up. This deal was better then the deal from last Sunday, so I am feeling fortunate.

      See signature for details!

      edit: I test drove the S90 twice over a couple weekends in July, once as a slightly extended test drive, so I was fairly aware of what this car would act like once I bought it.
      Last edited by BenSweed; 08-03-2018 at 09:46 PM.
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    20. #18
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      Nice. Enjoy. It's a great car. I wouldn't worry too much about it being assembled in China.

    21. #19
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      One more thing. Don't get the 20", unless air suspension is part of the package. I'm feeling every bump in the road.

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    22. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by jimbowman View Post
      Nice. Enjoy. It's a great car. I wouldn't worry too much about it being assembled in China.
      My 2018 S90 T8 is built in China and is a great well-built car.


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    23. #21
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      Very pleased with the S90 after 2500 miles. Wife is pleased, kid is pleased. Tall family members pleased. Excellent comfort, NVH. It can handle a bit of spirited driving, and it can sip gas and cruise. My kind of car. Considered the polestar tuning but I'm actually quite pleased with the car as is. I do wish the sun shades were available for the S90L, but they are not an option for me to purchase. I wonder if I am able to upgrade to motorized sun shades at some point.

      I'm making a service appointment to look at two items:

      1. Vibrations in the car when braking around 60-70mph. Likely warped rotors? The tires? I know this is an issue discussed in a few threads here - I haven't exactly bothered to pull the tires off and use a digital caliper on the rotors, but I'll report what the dealership says if it's helpful for anyone.
      2. Occasional white smoke out of exhaust. Anyone else ever experience that in their SPA's? Could it be a coolant leak? Some kind of cylinder head type leak? I haven't noticed it in the engine bay, just out of the exhaust.

      I've had one other issue previously, one of the front park assist sensors in the bumper was "loose" when I purchased the CPO. Had the service department fix it back into place.
      2018 S90 T5 Momentum | Crystal White Pearl | Amber | Momentum Plus + Convenience
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    24. #22
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      White smoke is bad news, that does indicate a coolant leak but also, flooring it can sometimes produce gray smoke from unburnt fuel. I saw this once or twice in my Lexus GS years ago but haven't seen my S90 T6 do it under any kind of pressure. Vibrations are probably warped rotors, there's a service bulletin for that. Polestar is worth it for spirited driving and doesn't impact fuel economy; it's basically a midrange boost and great for highway driving and corner carving....although being predominantly AWD and probably FWD biased, and super heavy, it's not exactly a canyon drifter.

    25. #23
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      Thank's for the information about the service bulletin. I'll be sure to mention that.

      The white smoke does worry me too. It is strange that the coolant reservoir is full. Smoke is visible on cold startup in the morning, and is not a tremendous amount. I might end up taking a quick video. Have not observed it at other times, except for once I think I noticed it while idling. Hard to tell.. but I do not think it is just condensation or ambient temp related.
      2018 S90 T5 Momentum | Crystal White Pearl | Amber | Momentum Plus + Convenience
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      1. Confirmed warped rotor in the front and pad worn down to 4mm, but the Thousand Oaks Volvo service department did not feel like they should cover the replacement of the pads and rotor. Also said that they don't see it very often, which contradicts what I've read on forums. Quoted ~$820to replace front pads and rotors. I'll be doing that myself.
      2. Sensor in the cooling system was faulty and replaced. I'll keep an eye on it, but that might have been my minor leak.
      3. Had a check engine light come on when the sensor failed, and rough clunk when going into reverse or drive. Service department said they had experienced this before and was almost always a software issue. After software update, problem is gone.

      Really like this SPA 2018 S90 overall. Our child is now forward facing and practically has her own first class compartment in the back. Thumbs up!
      2018 S90 T5 Momentum | Crystal White Pearl | Amber | Momentum Plus + Convenience
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    27. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by BeachBoy View Post
      I don't think anyone looking at a S90 will look half a second at a S80 with looks and features dating back in 1999.

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      I beg to differ, BeachBoy ...... yes, would jump at a S90 if it had my V8 engine in it but it doesn't, so will stick with my S80 V8 Executive until they drag me out of it and force me into an electric.

    28. #26

      S90 models and some buying advice

      Quote Originally Posted by BenSweed View Post
      Very pleased with the S90 after 2500 miles. Wife is pleased, kid is pleased. Tall family members pleased. Excellent comfort, NVH. It can handle a bit of spirited driving, and it can sip gas and cruise. My kind of car. Considered the polestar tuning but I'm actually quite pleased with the car as is. I do wish the sun shades were available for the S90L, but they are not an option for me to purchase. I wonder if I am able to upgrade to motorized sun shades at some point.

      I'm making a service appointment to look at two items:

      1. Vibrations in the car when braking around 60-70mph. Likely warped rotors? The tires? I know this is an issue discussed in a few threads here - I haven't exactly bothered to pull the tires off and use a digital caliper on the rotors, but I'll report what the dealership says if it's helpful for anyone.
      2. Occasional white smoke out of exhaust. Anyone else ever experience that in their SPA's? Could it be a coolant leak? Some kind of cylinder head type leak? I haven't noticed it in the engine bay, just out of the exhaust.

      I've had one other issue previously, one of the front park assist sensors in the bumper was "loose" when I purchased the CPO. Had the service department fix it back into place.
      I found these: https://www.volvooempartsdirect.com/...w0LWdhcw%3D%3D



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    29. #27
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      If you're buying a 2017 make sure you get some kind of decent warranty on it. The electronics are a little sketchy. I have an S90 T6 Inscription AWD with Polestar, and my entire dash turned to vertical stripes one day. It took the dealer a month to replace it, and they gave it back to me with the maintenance overdue warning on. It's been fine since then and mechanically it has been just about perfect. Just beware all these LCD screens, especially in the first gen cars. Newer models get 200% faster Sensus computers also, so there's that.

      Also if I was hauling people around I would get the S90L. You can fit adults back there comfortably.

    30. #28
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      I am enjoying my 2017 S90 Inscription - 46k miles and the CPO warranty with unlimited miles until 5yrs. I highly recommend a CPO S90, you really can't go wrong. Its more car than a new S60 for less money and a better warranty.

      As for electronics being sketchy, that's pretty much any new car from any manufacturer. There will be components that fail. My 2016 XC90 R-Design's center stack went black with vertical stripes similar to Afrosheen's S90. Our family's 2017 XC90 Momentum has been flawless. My S90 has been fantastic so far and passengers are always extra comfy.

      2020 the S90 can be ordered with the R-Design trim package.
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    31. #29
      For the CPO vehicles are all of the available software updates done to the car before it is offered for sale? The brochure says 170 point inspection, etc. That isn’t mentioned.


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    32. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by palominoblackwing View Post
      For the CPO vehicles are all of the available software updates done to the car before it is offered for sale?
      I don't know if it is standard, but I told them I wanted all updates when I bought my CPO and they did.

    33. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by palominoblackwing View Post
      For the CPO vehicles are all of the available software updates done to the car before it is offered for sale? The brochure says 170 point inspection, etc. That isn’t mentioned.


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      Updated software is part of the CPO process. Of course, there is a chance an update comes out between when it is updated during the CPO process and when the vehicle is actually sold.

    34. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Updated software is part of the CPO process. Of course, there is a chance an update comes out between when it is updated during the CPO process and when the vehicle is actually sold.
      Don't put much trust in the CPO process. At the end of the day, it's a paper checklist that's run down by the dealer service department. Very easy for them to pencil whip and ignore things if able to get away with it to save money. CPO is worth it for the warranty, not much else unless you have a high rated, honest dealer.

    35. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by 392DCGC View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Updated software is part of the CPO process. Of course, there is a chance an update comes out between when it is updated during the CPO process and when the vehicle is actually sold.
      Don't put much trust in the CPO process. At the end of the day, it's a paper checklist that's run down by the dealer service department. Very easy for them to pencil whip and ignore things if able to get away with it to save money. CPO is worth it for the warranty, not much else unless you have a high rated, honest dealer.
      Very easy to make up reasons to not trust anything. Except, of course, online ratings. Certainly trust those.

    36. #34
      Junior Member choochjb's Avatar
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      I bought CPO last fall and despite me asking them point blank about the software being up to date, and them assuring me that it was....it most definitely was not. I could tell because the center screen did not display "Polestar" in the drive mode selector. Coincidentally, I had some software issues this week... Took it to a different dealer for service, and now everything is finally up to date, and the center screen shows the "Polestar" option instead of dynamic.
      New Daily Driver: 2018 V90 T6 R-Design - P* Tuned, Passion Red
      Old Daily Driver: 2008 VW MKV GTI - APR Tuned, Candy White
      Backup/Hauler: 2019 Subaru Ascent - LP Aventure Lifted, Abyss Blue Pearl

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