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    1. #1
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      Logging dipstick

      I've searched but couldn't find a part number for the mentioned "logging dipstick" in several threads about oil burning/consumption. Is this a manual dipstick? Does it replace the current manual in my T5 (5 cylinder)?

      I have a 2016 S60CC with the T5 (5 cylinder). Does anyone have a part number for this logging dipstick? Even if the part number is from another Volvo I can cross reference it in a parts search.

      BTW, I called my local Volvo parts counter and he said he never heard of such a thing.

      Does this dipstick exist?

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    3. #2
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      I think that's the dip stick that comes in the Volvo...has the XXXs. The XXXs help measure the oil level, you log that level when you're tracking oil consumption.
      Last edited by LittleMushi; 07-31-2018 at 05:02 PM.
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    4. #3
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      That yellow handle dipstick with the XX levels is in my car now. I thought I remembered reading there was a special dipstick with markings used to measure oil consumption. One with a red handle?

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    6. #4
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      I've not heard of a logging dipstick, but I think you could do a good job of tracking oil consumption by using the existing XXX markings. My dipstick readings go up and down a couple of XXs from cold engine to hot engine so checking it with a cold engine on level ground after sitting overnight might give the most consistent readings to compare from one day to another. It's a lot quicker than the warm engine wait 15 minutes procedure required to know whether your oil level is correct.
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    7. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by JMarkias View Post
      I've not heard of a logging dipstick, but I think you could do a good job of tracking oil consumption by using the existing XXX markings. My dipstick readings go up and down a couple of XXs from cold engine to hot engine so checking it with a cold engine on level ground after sitting overnight might give the most consistent readings to compare from one day to another. It's a lot quicker than the warm engine wait 15 minutes procedure required to know whether your oil level is correct.
      I agree...I've been measuring in the morning before starting the car to get a consistent condition for better accuracy. Has anyone established the volume of oil required to move the level from the minimum to maximum markings (lines between the XX levels)? Or does it vary between 5 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines?

      Here is a photo of my 5 cylinder dipstick at the full line.


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    8. #6
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      The red dipstick you read about is for some 6 cylinder engines. There was a bulletin for some where the oil capacity was changed so we replaced the dipstick with a new one and updated the ECM software. This does not apply to your car.

    9. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      The red dipstick you read about is for some 6 cylinder engines. There was a bulletin for some where the oil capacity was changed so we replaced the dipstick with a new one and updated the ECM software. This does not apply to your car.
      Would love to know more about this as I own a T6. How would one know if their engine qualifies?
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    10. #8
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      Has anyone established the volume of oil required to move the level from the minimum to maximum markings (lines between the XX levels)? Or does it vary between 5 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines?

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    11. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
      Has anyone established the volume of oil required to move the level from the minimum to maximum markings (lines between the XX levels)? Or does it vary between 5 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines?

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      It's about .5 of a quart, according to the manual: "Add oil if necessary. If the level is close to the MIN mark, add approximately 0.5 US quarts (0.5 liters) of oil."
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    12. #10
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      I've been told that each X represents a 1/4 of a quart, so a full quart range in all 4 X's, half a quart up or down from the midpoint (2 X's each way).

    13. #11
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      red handle dipstick

      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      The red dipstick you read about is for some 6 cylinder engines. There was a bulletin for some where the oil capacity was changed so we replaced the dipstick with a new one and updated the ECM software. This does not apply to your car.
      drive 2015 XC60; around 46000 miles oil consumption was one quart per thousand miles. Took it to dealer, they kept it for a week and later told me they performed a software upgrade and installed a red handle oil dipstick. Red handle dipstick has eight cross hatch marks instead of four on the yellow dipstick. So what has changed? Service writer at the dealership shrugged his shoulders when I posed this question.

    14. #12
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      [IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]
      I also have a 2015 XC60 which started consuming oil at ~30k miles. The first step our dealer took was the Volvo red dipstick and sticker install. As you can see from the photos the "fix" adds about a quart of oil. My personal thought is that this doesn't reduce consumption but rather the length of time until you might get a "low" oil light. Our dealer was very responsive and worked with Volvo directly to resolve the situation to our satisfaction.
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    15. #13
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      That's pretty messed up. "Car is consuming too much oil, eh? Here let me re-calibrate your dipstick... All fixed!"

      I really hope this is only a temporary measure (as OP suggested) so they can more accurately monitor oil consumption to determine if the car needs an engine rebuild/replacement.

      The pessimist/pragmatist in me thinks this is just a dishonest way to avoid having to perform costly engine overhauls.

      So the service techs start reporting multiple cases of high oil consumption, even when the recommended service intervals have been followed and documented. Volvo HQ starts thinking, Sh*t, we may have a problem here. This could get expensive.' They call in their engineers and ask 'technically, how much could we overfill/underfill this crankcase before it starts to cause other problems?' Knowing there is a safety factor built in to the dipstick min/max, the engineer gives them the answer they're looking for. Volvo then designs a dipstick to increase the min/max capacity and does a quick "software update" to recalibrate the threshold for the oil level sensor.

      The idea here is, there are plenty of under warranty Volvo owners who don't know enough about engines to know any better. As long as they don't see the oil light come on between oil changes, they will believe that the problem is fixed. All Volvo needs to do is bide their time until the warranty period runs out and they are financially in the clear.

      Even if they clearly explain to every customer that they will be increasing the oil capacity of the engine, and that the engine will continue to burn oil at the same rate only now it has more oil it can burn through before it becomes a problem, I would still call that a bare minimum attempt at treating the symptoms and not the root cause. If they fail to explain this and just return the car the customer and say "it's fixed" I would call that dishonest and deceptive.

    16. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by budleach View Post
      That's pretty messed up. "Car is consuming too much oil, eh? Here let me re-calibrate your dipstick... All fixed!"
      Assuming the vehicle can now make it between service intervals without adding a quart, what's the downside other than paying for an extra quart at oil-change time?

      Now, if the engine is really thirsty and you still have to add quarts between servicing, that's a different story and changing the dipstick didn't change that story one way or another.

    17. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dyno View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by budleach View Post
      That's pretty messed up. "Car is consuming too much oil, eh? Here let me re-calibrate your dipstick... All fixed!"
      Assuming the vehicle can now make it between service intervals without adding a quart, what's the downside other than paying for an extra quart at oil-change time?
      People who don't understand the concept of acceptable tolerances and machining variances expect an engine to burn no oil at all over the full 10,000 mile change interval and assume that even burning a quart every 5,000 miles is "excessive." This is the root cause of people getting upset about the revised dipstick.
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    18. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dyno View Post
      Assuming the vehicle can now make it between service intervals without adding a quart, what's the downside other than paying for an extra quart at oil-change time?

      Now, if the engine is really thirsty and you still have to add quarts between servicing, that's a different story and changing the dipstick didn't change that story one way or another.
      I think the key is if the car can make it between service intervals without needing to add oil. By the way, if you don't have to add oil between changes it will cost you nothing extra. The oil change will cost the same if you're at minimum or maximum level.
      The fact that there is a min and max on the dipstick (physical or electronic) presumably means that if you're anywhere in the range you should be fine. In that case:
      1- no need to add oil if you are above the minimum.
      2- it's OK to be at minimum come time for an oil change. Think of it as you think of gasoline.

      It is, however, not ok to need to add oil in between changes.
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    19. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by zenmervolt View Post
      People who don't understand the concept of acceptable tolerances and machining variances expect an engine to burn no oil at all over the full 10,000 mile change interval and assume that even burning a quart every 5,000 miles is "excessive." This is the root cause of people getting upset about the revised dipstick.
      I understand the concept of tolerances and machining variances better than most, it is my job. Many engine manufacturers (including Volvo) are able to design and consistently manufacture engines that can go an entire oil change interval without consuming significant quantities of oil, and I doubt it is because they have a 2+ quart tolerance band between the min and max on their dipsticks. I know there will be some oil consumption, but you have to draw the line somewhere. That line of acceptability was drawn when the original dipstick was designed. There was actual thought put into what would be the acceptable min/max fill level and they had to have some expectation that the engine they designed would be able to maintain that over the specified interval. To come out with a "revised dipstick" only after receiving multiple customer complaints is like a 5 year old trying to change the rules of a game as soon as they realize they are going to lose.

      I agree that as long as the oil level isn't so high that it interferes with the rotating crankshaft, and not so low that the pump sucks air the engine will be safe to run. But that is not a valid long term fix for this type of problem because the root cause of the oil consumption is generally a mechanical failure somewhere (piston rings, valve seals, PCV system, turbo seals, etc.) Those types of failures have a tendency to get worse over time. So ignoring the various possible causes and just increasing the oil capacity is reckless, IMO. It is like hearing a strange noise from your engine and just turning up the radio so you can't hear it anymore. You may get to 10k miles without the light coming on for the next few oil changes, but eventually it will catch up to you and consumption will get high enough that the light will come on after 9k miles, then 8k, then 6.5k... But by that time the warranty has run out ... and the damage is so excessive that it is no longer just a ring job, now you need a new block.

      Maybe i'm just really lucky, but my current 3.0 T6 has gone 3k miles since I last changed the oil and the level is right at the max where it was when I filled it. My old 2006 Saab with 155k miles on it would go 6k miles between oil changes with no noticeable oil loss. Same for the 2001 Saab before that. My father owned his 2001 S60 T5 from new. He put over 250k miles on that car and did every oil change himself and in his words that car "never burned a drop of oil." Same for his V70R, and his S80, and all his various 740s and 240s before that.
      Last edited by budleach; 11-26-2019 at 09:01 AM.

    20. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by Almaz View Post
      It is, however, not ok to need to add oil in between changes.
      A lot of people would agree with you, but technically, there's nothing wrong with, say, 5000 miles per quart. It's a customer perception/annoyance issue, not a reliability or durability issue of itself -- as long as it doesn't get worse and you don't let the level get too far below the ADD mark.

    21. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dyno View Post
      A lot of people would agree with you, but technically, there's nothing wrong with, say, 5000 miles per quart. It's a customer perception/annoyance issue, not a reliability or durability issue of itself -- as long as it doesn't get worse and you don't let the level get too far below the ADD mark.
      True.
      To clarify, I meant the recommended service interval should be such that you don't have to add between changes even if there is a certain amount of consumption.
      It's way more than what you can expect the average owner to do.
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    22. #20
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      [QUOTE=budleach;7457129]That's pretty messed up. "Car is consuming too much oil, eh? Here let me re-calibrate your dipstick... All fixed!"

      I really hope this is only a temporary measure (as OP suggested) so they can more accurately monitor oil consumption to determine if the car needs an engine rebuild/replacement.

      The pessimist/pragmatist in me thinks this is just a dishonest way to avoid having to perform costly engine overhauls.



      there are posts on here where customers under warranty have entered their car into the oil consumption issue. Some customers have discovered that when their car is given back to them to begin the oil monitoring procedures , they have checked the dipstick and the oil level is well above the " full" mark.
      a little deceptive i'd say...

    23. #21
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      Let's say your car gets 7000 miles per quart. Not a bad number, but if you are diligent, you will add a quart before you reach the service interval.

      Bump the FULL mark up one quart and now

      Nothing nefarious. Just... simple. And maybe just a bit sneaky.

      Obviously won't disguise any sort of real problem, like stuck rings.

    24. #22
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      [QUOTE=jlh3rd;7457441]
      Quote Originally Posted by budleach View Post
      there are posts on here where customers under warranty have entered their car into the oil consumption issue. Some customers have discovered that when their car is given back to them to begin the oil monitoring procedures , they have checked the dipstick and the oil level is well above the " full" mark.
      a little deceptive i'd say...
      1. You have to be relatively scientific when reading a dipstick. You have to make sure the car is level AND the oil temperature is the same at every measurement (oil expands when it gets hot)
      2. I think the dealers use the "drain-and-weigh" method, which measures oil consumption by weight. Dipstick level is irrelevant.
      3. Dealers are motivated to make their customers happy and if anything, ENCOURAGE warranty work, not discourage it. It is a significant revenue stream for them.

    25. #23
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      For those of you concerned about running an extra quart in your engine, GM actually recommends adding one extra quart if you're racing your C5 or C6 Corvette. It even says so right in the owner's manual.

    26. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dyno View Post
      For those of you concerned about running an extra quart in your engine, GM actually recommends adding one extra quart if you're racing your C5 or C6 Corvette. It even says so right in the owner's manual.
      That makes sense. But I don't think it has to do with consumption concerns. It probably has more to to with ensuring the oil pickup stays submerged when cornering and braking at high G-forces. The C5 and C6 are wet sump right?
      Last edited by budleach; 11-26-2019 at 09:23 AM.

    27. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dyno View Post
      A lot of people would agree with you, but technically, there's nothing wrong with, say, 5000 miles per quart. It's a customer perception/annoyance issue, not a reliability or durability issue of itself -- as long as it doesn't get worse and you don't let the level get too far below the ADD mark.

      I partly agree with you here, but it depends on the circumstance. The problem I have is, how do you know it won't get worse if you haven't identified the root cause?

      If I bought a used car with higher mileage (70-80k+ miles) and I found out it was burning a quart every 5k miles, that would be a bummer, but i'll just keep an eye on it and hope it doesn't get worse. That's the gamble you take with used cars and the sale price reflects that. You don't know how it was treated by the previous owner. No warranty, so you have nothing to lose by waiting it out and hoping it doesn't rapidly get worse.

      If I bought a brand new car and followed the break in regimen and service intervals as recommended by the dealer, only to find out its consuming a quart every 5000 miles after only 2-3 years, I would not agree with a dealer trying to tell me "that is normal and within acceptable limits."

    28. #26
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      You or the dealer can still keep track of how many quarts are added between services to arrive at a miles-per-quart value, no matter where the FULL level is marked. Start with it at the full mark, add oil as needed to keep it at the full mark, do some math and you have the miles-per-quart value, just the same way you calculate miles-per-gallon of fuel.

      If you have a high tolerance for aggravation, you can search this site and the wider internet for "oil consumption complaints". You'll find that Volvo and other manufacturers would claim that 5000 MPQ probably does not warrant an engine or piston/ring replacement, especially if out of warranty. My casual searches suggest that you have to be in the neighborhood of 1000 MPQ to qualify for major work or engine replacement. A pretty crappy neighborhood, it is, too, but it is what it is. Most people would be very disappointed at that point.

      Of course, if the cause of the high consumption is a leak or something obviously broken, they'll fix it if you are in the warranty period, otherwise...

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