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Oil is sooooo confusing

28K views 120 replies 25 participants last post by  AlbertF 
#1 ·
South, another oil thread but hopefully it'll be kept simple.

I decided that is time I really stay paying attention because oil is a lot more complicated than what I'm used to.

So the owners manual for my 07 3.2 AWD doesn't say enough for me to make a decision due to changes in oil testing.



Now, after doing some searching, the A1/B1 testing was replaced with a "C class" testing. But I've not found any information which says "This c-class rating replaces this a/b class rating". So I have no reference for oil.

I've seen a VERY wide range of response of both brand and viscosities. So let me detail my environment.

I'm in Southern Ontario, Canada. Spring is on the edge of finally poking is head up. Temps are hovering around freezing atm. I don't do any towing at all. Mostly daily driving to work (15-20min each way) and I like to go on long drives around my area.

I'm quite happy to use only synthetic oil but after all my reading, I'm just more confused than ever in what to buy.

Best I've come up with is Penzoil Synthetic but still no idea of what viscosity to get. The Volvo manual recommends Castrol brand.

I don't believe there is any significant oil consumption. (Just checked).

So....help?

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#3 · (Edited)
I've been using Pennzoil Platinum Ultra from Canadian Tire. It goes on sale for ~30$CAD / 5L.
They also have mail in rebates.

It meets / exceeds these specs and has great test results.
I've also moved family members over to Pennzoil Platinum due to the value - no complaints so far.

I think any modern synthetic oil you buy that meets the specs is going to do you well.
I used to use M1 across all my vehicles and made the switch about 4 years ago to PP due to the value.
 
#6 ·
#9 ·
I am sharing some of my work researching oils. This does not have all the information/specs available, but it does have the relevant ones. With the 3.2, wear could cause oil consumption over time. To combat this, an oil with a higher shear rating, or HTHS, will help reduce the wear on load, such as accelerating or carrying passengers. The 5W-30 oils have lower shear ratings compared to the 0W-40 oils or Castrol's 0W-30.

The W[inter] viscosity is the "pumping ability of oil temperatures as low as minus 10 to minus 40 degrees C." Even if a 0W-40 oil has a higher viscosity rating at 40C, it will still pump better at freezing temps than a 5W-30. Better pumping in freezing weather, better protection in hotter weather, and better shear rating, this is why I recommend the 0W-40 oils. The Castrol 0W-30 is a good alternative, but in the States, it is expensive.

Viscosity Index is how consistent the viscosity maintains, or how much it can keep the multi-grade rating from degrading. Higher Index number is better. Notice how the 0W-40 oils are better at keeping their multigrade viscosities.

So, my recommendation of Mobil 1 0W-40 for the 3.2 is based on data and personal experience. If your 3.2, or other engine say 2.5t, is consuming oil after the Mobil 1 0W-40, then try the Castrol 0W-40 next oil change since it is a little thicker.

 
#35 ·
I am sharing some of my work researching oils.

I mentioned a few months back I was running Castrol High Mileage Synth 5W-30, and you recommended changing to 0W-40.
The matrix you've put together is a handy quick reference. Thank you for putting it together and sharing it.
But a question, how is the data to be interpreted? Lowest numbers are best? Highest numbers are best? Something in the middle of all?
Royal Purple, which I'm familiar with from my M/C track days, delivers numbers that are nearly a full standard deviation higher than anything else in this matrix.
 
#10 ·
Ontario gets pretty cold winters and reasonably hot summers. The question is, what oil was used until this moment on the engine: synthetic or mineral? If you switch to synthetic, expect a high consumption for several months and possible quickly clogged oil filter. I'd verify the level a few days after the oil change, then weekly.

I'm in Montreal and I like to use the best the Castrol 0W-30 oil (someone else also mentioned this oil) because by -15C the engine is better lubricated and warms up quicker. But it's expensive being sold only by the 1L at $13/piece and never gets discounts at Canadian Tire. Instead, I go the cheaper way with Castrol 0W-40 which sells by 5L for $35 on discount.

A 0W-30 or 0W-40 oil is ideal for our winters. These grades are only going to be offered in synthetic oil. But even a 5W-30 oil is going to do fine at -15C start up, as long as the battery is in good shape.

Your engine is non turbo so a mineral oil will do just fine, it's just that it will need replaced at a shorter interval, compared to a synthetic oil.

I would disregard those A, B or C classes when choosing an oil. Every oil on the market has the right attribute for these engines, even very recent engines (2015 up) can do with most oils, perhaps a more specific situation are the modern engines that require 0W-20 or 5W-20 grade oils (we should never use a -20 grade oil in an engine that wasn't specified for this grade)
 
#11 ·
Don,

I own two 3.2's (Same engine in both)

2010 S80 3.2 125,000 miles
2008 LR2 3.2 117,000 miles

The LR2 has used Mobil 1 0W-40 or German Castrol 0W-30 since new. (Mostly Mobil 1)

The S80 was purchased used with 123,000 miles for my Son to drive and it is using Mobil 1 0W-40 now.

I don't add oil between oil changes

To be more specific I drive the 7,500 miles or 6 months and then I change the oil and the oil level doesn't drop. (I have never seen a low oil message)

What you need to decide is if you want to spend $6 per liter or if you want to spend $12 per liter.

For my money $6 per liter Mobil 1 0W-40 is the way to go.

One last note the S80 (purchased used) likely didn't have synthetic oil in it since new and because of that the O-rings on the Brake Vacuum pump leaked oil and I needed to repair them and the seals for the intake manifold had a sticky residue and the seals were not very compliant.

For me the choice is simple Mobil 1 0W-40

Look at the signature line for ChitownV above "no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot"

Good Luck

Paul
 
#12 ·
Thanks everyone. That has helped tremendously!

I picked up Mobil 1 0W40, happened to be on Sale at CanTire for $46.99($10 off each bottle). (Technically I only paid $40 because I got like $70 of CT money a few weeks ago after buying a battery for the vehicle [emoji16])

Whew....need 7.5L of oil.....thought my 02 S40 took a lot at 5L! [emoji1787][emoji1787]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#15 ·
I would buy three 5L jugs when they have a deal with a filter. One filter for the BMW, one for the Volvo, and one for the 944. Then I would buy racing oil for the 944. since the 944 motor went down in a blaze of smoke I have a dozen quarts of racing oil and a few filters. Good thing a neighbor just bought a 944 to work on with his son. Now I don't know what to do when I buy oil. I will have too many filters.
 
#13 ·
I think it takes closer to 8 and that's why I run it out to the full 12000 kms. between oil changes. I started with the Castrol synthetic 5-30, last couple of years mostly use Mobil 1 5-30, maybe I'll switch to 0-40. Last winter I had a collapsed filter in the Fram ultra expensive variety. Something tells me that was with Castrol but not 100% positive. Now I buy the filters at Volvo.
 
#16 ·
Changed engine oil on the RD V8 recently acquired. Thanks to all for the discussion, especially CV and DD for your research, which helped me become comfortable with narrowing to two choices. (Choice 3 was used by previous owner.) Carefully pushing oem filter onto engine within chassis was small surprise. We'll see how it goes. Thanks
 
#17 ·
Rather than starting a new thread, revive this very good one. My 2011 XC90 just reached 90k and we have decided to keep it rather than replace with a 2020 XC90 (decided on a 2020 C63S instead), so I am looking at prolonging life as much as possible. Dealer has been using Valvoline conventional 5W-30 its entire life without issues except a low oil message at 85K miles. I am looking to switch oils since I will be going to non-dealer for services and thinking about which oil. C

It seems like Mobil 1 0W-40, or Castrol 0W-30 Edge (or Castrol Edge 0W-40 if I run into issues), but at 90K miles I am wondering if it would be better to use the high mileage formulas (Castrol High mile or Mobil 1 High mile 5W-30)?
 
#18 ·
This is probably entirely coincidental, but, immediately upon switching to Castrol High Mileage oil I went from never having to add oil between changes to adding a quart every 1200-2000 miles. Since then I've tried many other types of oil but the consumption persists.
 
#19 ·
One of my hesitations with HM is that it may cause a problem with the additives - perhaps some amount of sludge or grime is plugging the leaks from using dino oil. https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?584887-Anyone-use-conventional-oil-in-their-xc90s/page2

I had a great experience with Cataclean additive that I was going to run a Techron in the tank and Seafoam through the intake for an upcoming road trip and then get the oil changed.

I have a 3.2 also, and I was hoping that they were more resistant to oil leaks (I have two Audi S4s that require a quart between oil changes).
 
#23 ·
I am approaching 145k miles and beat the crap out of my 3.2. Never had to add oil.

In addition to John C's experience with high mileage, I have seen a couple other people on German car forums who have had the same experience with using high mileage oil and then would need to add oil, when it was not needed before. One of the detergents in oil is calcium. It can be in all oil, but in higher amounts with high mileage oils. Calcium is also an abrasive.

There are still other types of detergents, seal conditioners, etc. in full synthetic fluid. If you go with a Mobil 1 0W-40, you will not starve the engine of additives that it needs for higher mileage.
 
#24 ·
We're comparatively lucky with the Volvos of this era. They just want standard industry spec oils, and Mobil 1 has all the right flavors. VW has some crazy specific oil requirements... and my wife's Fiat 500X wants an oil that meets a cryptic Mopar material standard.

-Ryan
 
#25 ·
Yes the VW TDI wants 507.00 spec oil, which I have to pay big bucks for at VW and the old cars I have need the zinc additive in the oil to prevent the flat tappet camshafts from wearing out, so again, big bucks.

The Volvo is the easiest and I wait for the sales to come on to stock up on a couple of jugs of synthetic Mobile.
 
#26 ·
SO I took my 2011 XC90 to the dealer for an oil change (have been using Valvoline 5W-30 conventional for the past 95K miles). I am switching to Synthetic oil, they have Castrol, and I requested 0W-40 for the winter. The tech (not service advisor) actually discouraged 0W-40 in this specific vehicle, and recommended Castrol 5W-30 Synthetic instead of the 0W-40. I decided to go with the 5W-30 for now as the winters in Chicago have not been too bad recently, and figure out what could be the problem would be with the 0W-40. And I did not ask for High Mileage, either.

I know that many of you in this thread use Mobil or Castrol 0W-40, but what could the Volvo tech be talking about?
 
#42 · (Edited)
I know that many of you in this thread use Mobil or Castrol 0W-40, but what could the Volvo tech be talking about?
It's not because he has a tech diploma or perhaps '25 years of experience' that he knows everything right. Actually many people don't have a specific technical knowledge when it comes to argue why this oil is better than that oil. Volvo was arguing up and loud about no transmission oil change, while perhaps there were already clients with transmission problems waiting in the line (same way they've denied there were no transmission problems with the old T6 XC90)

As for the 0W-40 or 0W-30 oils, these are the best of the 'consumer' grade synthetic oils. The 0W-30 oil is actually the only one not bottled in the US, but rather in Europe (I think in Belgium). As far as my experience, the advantage with the 0W grade is faster engine warm up in cold climates (such as the northern States). Faster engine warm up also means faster cabin heat. If money wasn't a problem, I would use the 0W-30 Castrol, unfortunately here in Canada is sold only by 1qt bottles for about $15 (tax incl) and never goes on discount. The 0W-40 sells in 5L jugs for around $40 on discount. The 0W-40 may be better for old engines that may consume oil. A 0W grade also gives better engine protection at start up in very cold areas such as Alaska when temps drop to -5F and below.

While there, at no moment I would trust a 'High Mileage Castrol' just because it has Castrol in the name. To me these 'oils' are lower quality consumer grade products with a catchy name.

Speaking about oil, the filter is also worth same care. I know many swear by Mann only, which is a good brand, however, at this time it's rather Mahle that seems to be making the genuine filters for Volvo

. Product Filter Auto part Oil filter Label
 
#31 ·
Thanks for that Dragon. I did not think of pulling out the manual, the oil change was already done, and I did not want to be confrontational as I like the dealership (they have taken care of me with issues in the past). I was also not 100% sure what he was talking about and did not want to be 'that customer' who acts like they have a mechanical engineering degree from Google University. I get enough of that at work (I am an ICU physician, and have even had other physicians try to quote me outdated info about problems that have nothing to do with the situation at hand).

Looks like 0W-40 for me next time...
 
#33 ·
I appreciate your take, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Just say you're curious and play stupid, not confrontational. None of us have dealership level knowledge, there well could be a TSB.... or an issue with the weight in that brand of oil.

-Ryan
 
#32 ·
This is the only reason I can think of: The wider the viscosity range, the more viscosity enhancing polymers are needed. More enhancers means less actual oil. Also, over time these can break down, especially in shearing applications (gear trains), leaving you with the thin, single weight base oil.
 
#34 ·
Knowing how dealerships can work, not recommending 0W-40 could be a simple they don't have it. Dealerships can carry less oil weight options than the quickie lube places. I wouldn't be surprised if the dealership (assuming Fields) only carries 5W-30 and 5W-40 (for the older turbo cars). It is as simple as reducing the cost of oil inventory by reducing selection so they carry weights that are more universally accepted by the entire range of models. I have seen these dealerships (franchises) vary in the oil they carry and have seen them also use three different types of weights in the same car.

Now, if you talk to a tech outside of the dealership, you may get a different answer and that is from personal experience. My assumption is they probably just stated the official dealership position to make the sale.
 
#38 ·
I just dumped some Castrol 0W-40 in my wifes 3.2. I've used 5w30 and 0w30 also. Just use a recommended oil and stop reading all the different oil threads and your be fine.:)
 
#39 ·
Wondering your thought process on using 0W-40 instead of 5W-30 or 0W-30 and why Castrol. It's good to share your reasoning and information. Also, oil selections get updated so recommendations that are made more than a decade ago may need to be updated. I have tried to help here with data and facts in case anyone wanted to dig deeper. IMHO, we should verify, not just trust.

If a decade old car had factory recommendations for DOT 3 brake fluid, would you still put DOT 3 and not use DOT 4? Do you only use factory Volvo parts since they will only recommend them? Or do you go to the dealership asking for their recommendation on tires and only use that? Should oil be any different?
 
#41 ·
Random aside. I'm putting in my monthly Amazon order and decided to take see if any oil was on sale.
To my surprise, Amazon Basics is now also in the oil repackaging business.



Anybody want to roll the dice on this stuff? I wonder who is "Warren Distribution" is?
 
#53 ·
Random aside. I'm putting in my monthly Amazon order and decided to take see if any oil was on sale.
To my surprise, Amazon Basics is now also in the oil repackaging business.

Anybody want to roll the dice on this stuff? I wonder who is "Warren Distribution" is?
Bought a couple jugs when it was brand new and used them on my last oil change in the V70 before it was murdered by road debris. (RIP)

Seemed fine, no issues. Ran exactly the same as when I was putting Mobile 1 in it. Wouldn't hesitate to put it in the new car, but why bother if it's not significantly cheaper than better known alternatives?
 
#44 ·
RE: Amazon Basics:



Seems like good stuff. Frustratingly, Amazon is not easilyproviding simple things like MDS or MSDS for the oils, and is vague on the industry standards it meets.

I'll keep running M1 in the various Volvos in the driveway. Wally-mart has free shipping on the 5-L jugs. The Fiat seems to need the fancy pants Pennzoil Platinum Euro stuff.

I've noticed that Amazon Basics is expanding into tools as well. Curious times.

-Ryan
 
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