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iPd HD XC90 control arms: who will be the first to try them

12K views 85 replies 23 participants last post by  RyanR 
#1 ·
Just wanted to share that iPd has new XC90 HD control arms which are conveniently priced between Meyle and original Volvo. I think these are similarly priced to when Lemforder used to offer entire control arms a few years ago.

Their justification as HD is that the rubber is of better quality than Volvo. Volvo uses high quality recycled rubber to meet a "green" spec and iPd's claim is this leads to the wear or failure over time. iPd does not claim any design differences or harder rubber, just high quality rubber. I wonder if this will actually equate to lasting longer than original Volvo control arm bushings. I have heard iPd's HD sway bar end links can fail like original or Lemforder ones and that their HD spring seats can still fail like other OEMs.

I do like what iPd is trying to do and I run some of their products in my own XC90. So, at the very least it is good to see development for the XC90. Personally, if I was going to purchase whole control arms, I probably would buy the original Volvo arms from FCP because of the lifetime warranty.

https://www.ipdusa.com/products/215...FWgxROn-hGU81sRIju8qifP8lEnpnruBoCdV0QAvD_BwE
 
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#2 ·
I'm going to remain skeptical, but would love to be wrong. IPD's other HD parts didn't really pan out to be HD. I've got loads of IPD stuff on my older Volvos (camshafts, sway bars, some poly stuff), so I've nothing against IPD.

I'm still aiming for Powerflex poly, but I'm hesitant to give up any ride comfort.

-Ryan
 
#3 ·
I’ve been thinking about these the past couple of days, since the ipd email hit my inbox a little while ago. I agree with you and will probably just go with FCP — as much as I hate spending more for the whole LCAs, it’s a matter of limited time/access to a shop press for me.

I assume my suspension hasn’t been touched since new (had ~ 135k when I bought it last year without a full PPI, now coming up on 147k and really have had no major issues so far). I noticed on the highway when I hit a bump the whole vehicle “floats” a bit; I also assume that’s a sign of worn bushings?

BD


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#4 ·
When we need them I will either buy the Volvo arms from Tasca and have the local dealer install them so I get Volvo's lifetime parts and labor warranty, or if I am ambitious and willing to do an control arm install again buy the IPD and do them myself and see how they last.
 
#7 ·
Just wanted to share that iPd has new XC90 HD control arms which are conveniently priced between Meyle and original Volvo. I think these are similarly priced to when Lemforder used to offer entire control arms a few years ago.

Their justification as HD is that the rubber is of better quality than Volvo. Volvo uses high quality recycled rubber to meet a "green" spec and iPd's claim is this leads to the wear or failure over time. iPd does not claim any design differences or harder rubber, just high quality rubber.
When this ad hit my in-box, I challenged IPD to provide proof of their claim (IPD "high quality rubber" vs Volvo "recycled high quality rubber") ...

They couldn't.
 
#8 ·
I wrote iPD asking them to convince me that they would be a worthwhile upgrade, with any kind of data or reviews. The only points made were that their rubber is better, that MeyleHD uses more (but inferior) rubber, and that the iPD control arms should last as long or longer than Genuine Volvo. Additionally, they said that their control arms for other Volvo models are well-received, which is like comparing apples to bowling balls, in my view.
I had original Volvo bushings on my 90k '09 XC90 that were in OK condition, so I replaced them with MeyleHD bushings before new tires and alignment. Big mistake. The steering felt soft and "floaty", and there was then a brake pull to the left. I had done no brake work along with the other surgery, nor cracked the lines, so I hung a GoPro under the car and drove around the block. Literally around the block. The left MeyleHD bushing deflected a lot farther than the right, and certainly way more than it should, especially in consideration of the effect that has on toe-in and tire wear. Fortunately, I bought them from FCP and was able to return them for Lemforders. What I would like to do is video the Lemforders and then install iPD's and video those.
I suppose that polyurethane would be the way to go for stiffer handling, but the downside, as I hear, is increased road noise. Not to mention the crazy price.
 
#13 ·
Hey guys- I got together with my product team and we put together a small write up regarding these control arms. I hope this sheds some light on the subject.

What is better rubber?

One of the subjects that generates the most confusion regarding suspension products is the topic of rubber. The kerfluffle comes from the fact that most people do not understand what recycled rubber really is and why it is a poor application in suspension. The truth is that rubber does not actually recycle like glass or other substances. It does not "melt" and get reformed into new strands of material in the second life of the material. Instead rubber is ground up into filler which is mixed into new rubber to act as a filler with some, but not all, of the properties of new rubber.

Since the recycled filler rubber does not bond with the new rubber it is instead captured in the mix. So it does maintain much of its compression and recovery aspects, but it does not have the same response as new rubber in stretch and recovery since it is not bonded. Even more importantly to this topic is that the lack of bonds make a virtually infinite number of places for separations to begin and propagate.

The fact that the inert filler has already lost much of its recovery properties before being re-purposed means that the new rubber mixture will lose elasticity and recovery even faster than new rubber. These factors are not very important when purposed for something like the tread on a hiking sandal, but they are very important when used in applications like the bushings in these control arms. The ability to stretch predictably and recover to the original position is the primary function of the bushings in a suspension design like this. Older style suspensions operated mostly in two planes but that is no longer the case in modern cars.

We figured this out several years ago and set about manufacturing our own control arms for the P2 cars. These cars in general were suffering a very high failure rate of OE control arms and an even higher rate of failure on low cost aftermarket examples (since they contain even more recycled rubber). Since we sell OE, upgrade and aftermarket parts we actually know which ones get warranty complaints more often and are not operating on secondhand information or hearsay.

We worked with an analysis lab here in the U.S. that compared the Volvo OE and a few aftermarket versions and what led to those failures. We were advised to utilize a compound that relies less on recycled materials.

So what is better rubber? In this case it is rubber that has more ability to stretch and recover without developing separations and faults for a longer period of time. And we need to do this without the loss in ride quality associated with some other materials. It's not rocket science. It's just our response to the fact rubber performance is going down at the same time the chassis engineers are asking the performance to go up. Is this a perfect bushing that will never fail? Certainly not, but it is an improvement on the options we have seen so far. Try them out, you may be surprised.

If you have any questions, you can email Ken@ipdusa.com or myself at Chris@ipdusa.com. We will do our best to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you
 
#14 ·
Hello Chris@IPD,

I apologize, but as a loyal customer, my opinion is this was basically the same info in your informational marketing. The real question is how it performs in the real world or head-to-head. I don't know where you source the new rubber, how the bushings are manufactured (and the QC), nor have we seen your lab analysis.

I strive to give real world results and data in my posts, not just the marketing info.

Believe us when we say we know about the control arm bushings wearing out, especially with the heaviest vehicle in the Volvo P2 fleet. The biggest deciding factor when personally talking to different XC90 owners is how the consistency and longevity play into the price point. We just don't have the real world information or data to make an informed decision on choosing the IPD control arms. However, when it comes to original Volvo, we know how long they can last without issue.

Why haven't you chosen to try solid rubber bushings or improving the overall design of the bushing and not just the rubber? I've used solid rubber bushing replacements in European cars, where the original ones had cutouts, with great results.
 
#17 ·
Hello Chris@IPD,

I apologize, but as a loyal customer, my opinion is this was basically the same info in your informational marketing. The real question is how it performs in the real world or head-to-head. I don't know where you source the new rubber, how the bushings are manufactured (and the QC), nor have we seen your lab analysis.

I strive to give real world results and data in my posts, not just the marketing info.

Believe us when we say we know about the control arm bushings wearing out, especially with the heaviest vehicle in the Volvo P2 fleet. The biggest deciding factor when personally talking to different XC90 owners is how the consistency and longevity play into the price point. We just don't have the real world information or data to make an informed decision on choosing the IPD control arms. However, when it comes to original Volvo, we know how long they can last without issue.

Why haven't you chosen to try solid rubber bushings or improving the overall design of the bushing and not just the rubber? I've used solid rubber bushing replacements in European cars, where the original ones had cutouts, with great results.
We source our control arms from a manufacture who supplies Lemforder, ZF, and TRW. We've been working with them for over 15 years making all sorts of rubber and cast components. We worked with a lab to test the durometer in each bushing from various competitors. In reference to the P2 non XC90, we worked for many years developing a new control arm. Then Meyle introduced their HD versions. At that time we didn't know creating a harder bushing or more material wasn't the correct answer. We shelved our project and waited to see how Meyle worked out.

We work with many independent service centers around the county. The feedback was they failed just as often as other aftermarket versions, but had an attractive warranty.

We tried poly bushings in our own cars. The problem is securing the poly "vulcanizing" to the actual control arm itself. There really isn't a way to secure the bushing in the control arm so they will stay. We also had issues with the sleeve tearing out the harder material. We noticed the material being beat to death! The deflection that occurs in the rear of the control arm is massive and can crush the material.

We worked with a lab who tested the rubber durometer and deflection. We were advised that using better material would be the best course of action and to not go with more material, just better material.

The voids in the factory bushings are engineered on purpose to help facilitate movement in the correct axis. It also allows a more controlled "bump steer" response under braking. Without the voids, steering control will be decreased under braking loads due to severe deflection and wheel hop. If you look at the way the suspension moves, the voids are specific to allow movement in the direction of your struts "up and down" and dampen or resist movement on the other axis.

We went back to our manufacture and moved forward making control arms for the P2 chassis specifying a higher quality compound. Fact is, we don't claim that these last forever. This is in fact a wear component. No rubber lasts forever. We have had great results with our distributors and shops installing our P2 control arms for S60/V70 applications. We've made them for XC70 models and had great success with little issues.

Our goal is to provide something better than what is being offered in the aftermarket. We feel we've priced them accordingly.

These products have taken many years to develop and many resources. We don't give away trade secrets about our development. When there is a claim to be made, we will make it. I can't tell you how many miles these will last or an exact number you will get out of them. This all depends on road conditions and how the person drives. All in all our control arms have done fantastic against others offered in the aftermarket.

ipd has been in business for over 55 years doing our best to develop quality products and solutions. We're not in business providing fake news or to cheat people into a product that won't work.

There are many options out there. We did our best to produce an affordable unit that will last longer.

I appreciate all the questions. it's nice to see so many people this enthusiastic over their XC90.

Thank you for your contribution to the Volvo community.

Have a great day.
 
#15 ·
Well, it's a good story and the price is right. If I hadn't just replaced mine, I'd be willing to give it a go.

I was surprised to see that my control arms still look good at 140K on the 2011 XC90.
Looks can be deceiving... Peek under the car while someone rocks the wheel left and right and see how much the ball joint moves around.
 
#18 ·
Again, real world results may be different than what has been calculated or theory. You even talked about it with the harder durometer and expectations were different than real world results. I do use forward polyurethane and factory rear bushings and have great results. Using the factory rearward bushing solves the poly issues you mentioned. Some of the deflection you are talking about is work transferred to the tires and we have different types of tires, sizes, and sidewall heights compared to an S60. The difficulty for XC90 owners are the considerations in angles, load, weight transfer, energy transfer, even center of gravity, etc. are all developed for the S60. That is why purely real world XC90 data is important. We can debate for ages whoever advises you on using different rubber versus changing some of the design, but that's not what's important here.

This thread was really coming from XC90 enthusiasts and we can talk about the information you have already supplied, we don't need more marketing or theory. We want real world results and that is why the thread is titled who will try it first so feedback can be shared amongst the XC90 group.

IPD, you don't have to prove your history to the Volvo community. We commend the effort to bring the XC90 options, but as a customer and consumer, we ultimately want results. You positioned your marketing information as a better than factory alternative. However, here you are saying it is an OEM alternative, it is conflicting marketing positioning.

I'm sure someone will try your arms one day and can give long-term results. That may take time. Please allow enthusiasts to talk about your arms until we can get the real world results. That is why forums like this exist.
 
#23 ·
Again, real world results may be different than what has been calculated or theory. You even talked about it with the harder durometer and expectations were different than real world results. I do use forward polyurethane and factory rear bushings and have great results. Using the factory rearward bushing solves the poly issues you mentioned. Some of the deflection you are talking about is work transferred to the tires and we have different types of tires, sizes, and sidewall heights compared to an S60. The difficulty for XC90 owners are the considerations in angles, load, weight transfer, energy transfer, even center of gravity, etc. are all developed for the S60. That is why purely real world XC90 data is important. We can debate for ages whoever advises you on using different rubber versus changing some of the design, but that's not what's important here.

This thread was really coming from XC90 enthusiasts and we can talk about the information you have already supplied, we don't need more marketing or theory. We want real world results and that is why the thread is titled who will try it first so feedback can be shared amongst the XC90 group.

IPD, you don't have to prove your history to the Volvo community. We commend the effort to bring the XC90 options, but as a customer and consumer, we ultimately want results. You positioned your marketing information as a better than factory alternative. However, here you are saying it is an OEM alternative, it is conflicting marketing positioning.

I'm sure someone will try your arms one day and can give long-term results. That may take time. Please allow enthusiasts to talk about your arms until we can get the real world results. That is why forums like this exist.
I agree with you that this is why forums exist. We have contributed to this forum since day one of its existence. We stay out of many threads allowing them to form their own opinion. We have also been in existence long before forums started. Our customer database reaches many customers outside of this forum where we do collect real world data. You're correct, it will take time and we definitely want our customers to give them a try and see how they turn out.

We've ran poly on our own vehicles with negative results. We run poly in many other areas with fantastic results. It all depends on the application. We ran a test sample of control arms on multiple XC90's for over two years and found the rubber was in fantastic shape. From the data we collected from other versions, we didn't see the same positive results.

All I know is we're taking the same approach as we did with other control arms from different models. In reference to the XC90 we saw positive results on vehicles that drove approximately 40-60K miles total. The bushings looked incredible. We did the same test with owners who utilized other brands including Volvo with signs of wear and partial tearing. We have had many Volvo OE control arms returned within one year of installation. All we can go on is the data we collect in-house with the customers who purchase from us. Our in-house systems does allow us to view dates of purchase and return history on products. We viewed that data and made a decision to move forward with manufacturing our own brand.

I will add that we support our customers and will go above and beyond, especially if it's with one of our own product. The last thing I want anyone to feel is they got stuck with a low quality product. Buying parts for your car is a huge investment.

I'm extremely pleased to see discussions like this one and people caring about their XC90. Basically, I just didn't want you all thinking we went into this blind. We used data from our own cars, employees vehicles, independent shop feedback, and customer returns to make this decision to create this control arm.

We looked at the main component that fails and did our best to improve the aspects that are causing those failures.

I appreciate anyone willing to give these a go. If these prematurely fail, my staff and I are always here to work with you and make sure you're taken care of. We also want to gather as much feedback as possible. If an improvement can be made, we will explore what it will take to make them even better.

Have a great day everyone!

Chris
 
#19 ·
The crux of the argument is that in lieu of facts from the manufacturer (arguably FEA and testing data), the community needs to generate its own data.

Everyone here has been burned by "HD" products from a number of manufacturers.

-Ryan
 
#22 · (Edited)
The crux of the argument is that in lieu of facts from the manufacturer (arguably FEA and testing data), the community needs to generate its own data.

Everyone here has been burned by "HD" products from a number of manufacturers.

-Ryan
So we all have a point of reference, are the "HD" LCA being tested by IPD for longevity and performance on one or more XC90s today? If yes, which variant(s) of the XC90, for how long and for how many miles?
Agreed with getting that feedback.

Chris@IPD,

Did you just remove part of my post from your quote about commending you for your effort and talking about your marketing positioning? How you positioned it was a big reason for debate. It was positioned as a better than factory Volvo alternative. It's a big claim and that's the big reason for real world feedback.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Hey there- We currently have a set of control arms running on two XC90 V8's for approximately 4-5 years. The mileage is running up to about 40-60K miles. One of them is still here at ipd and we regularly check them. The control arms look amazing, I wish I could say the same for the valve cover gaskets :) Given how many control arms we've sold between the S60/V70/XC70 we moved forward with the XC90.

Ok guys.... I appreciate all the feedback. I'll let it run its course between you the enthusiasts. My staff and I are always an email or phone call away. If you ever need anything from me, I'm always here to help anytime. I appreciate anyone willing to give these a try, just know we have your back!

Have a great day!
 
#26 ·
I takes old 35 years Skoda car engine support and rubber was crazy good melted with 2 parts of metal with bolts. We cant remove it in any way just
cut it. Today they dont made any more same vulcanization process like before. They mix recycled crap inside. No more rubber bushings no more
engine supports I use only Poly. More hard more vibration but drive and steering improved so great. Try to believe.
Changed all engine supports less than 4 years new car xc90. Than again after less time. No more not to save but sick to pay
to Volvo OEM crap bad parts nothing improved. This is problem nothing else. Use Poly whenever you can and sleep tight. :)
 
#27 ·
#28 ·
Quick point of order:
RyanR has taken the challenge and purchased a pair of iPD Control Arms.
https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?605313-IPD-HD-XC90-Control-Arms&p=7423519#post7423519
Of course it is far too soon to gather durability feedback, but I wanted to earmark the thread in this thread for future follow-up.
A heads up: it'll be a couple weeks before I can get the LCA's installed. August-like temps and humidity stuck around for far too long in Ohio, so non-critical maintenance projects got push off until last weekend. The RWD Volvos decided to present me with their occasional niggles all at once (blower motors, fuel gauges, etc), so they've taken priority, as that'll allow me to take the XC90 offline for a number of 150K-mile service projects to get ready for winter.

I'll report back.

-Ryan
 
#30 ·
Mine are being installed tomorrow. Note that I'm not exactly a great test subject as I put <10,000 mi a year on my XC, but I'll keep the thread updated as time goes on or should they show premature failure.
 
#31 ·
Hopefully, you can give us your initial impressions and then the long-term update.
 
#33 ·
My 2005 XC90 2.5T now has 120K. It needs the entire front end work any time now...
Questions for the gurus...

1. The control arm brand.
- This thread is about IPD control arm.
- Meyle control arm (FCPEuro) is $90/each.
- Volvo Genuine control arm $150/each.

I can afford these prices, I just need your experience what is the best option, i.e., longevity...

Link to Meyle control arms:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-control-arm-kit-front-2-piece-xc90-kit-p2xc90cakt3p2

2. The bolts for control arm: can I re-use them?
 
#34 ·
I would not recommend the VolvoOE. Nothing has even been written that holds them in a positive light.
Meyle's quality overall has seemed to slip.
Chitown V has an excellent write-up on his suspension refresh. Having driven his truck before, I can endorse that his well thought out execution yields fantastic durability and driveability benefits.

Reuse control arm bolts? Yes, but at $4 per, it's cheap insurance to replace them. Especially if your goal is to get another 40/50,000 miles out of the truck.
It would be one thing if these were high performance bolts from ARP or along those lines. Then I wouldn't care. I'd happily reuse them without concern.
 
#47 ·
I'd be interested in your feedback, Ryan since you have had your VOE LCAs since day-one and can give the best feedback on new VOE vs. new iPD.

My perspective comes from someone who got their XC90 with 140K already on the truck and an unknown number of miles on the LCAs (if it wasn't the first set).
 
#44 ·
Thank you Capndirk for sharing your experiences and how important the rearward bushings of the front lower control arms are as well.

Regardless of the Volvo OE opinion, we all want to see if the iPd control arms will perform on par with them. Thanks, ShadowDancer for taking the plunge and being the first to have them installed on your XC90 and giving us feedback.

My preference is still the polyurethane bushings, but for those that cannot pay the amount (or DIY the labor) for new bushings, pressing in new bushings, and control arm remove/replace, let's hope these will be a good rubber bushing option. Time and miles will tell.
 
#46 ·
Thank you Capndirk for sharing your experiences and how important the rearward bushings of the front lower control arms are as well.

Regardless of the Volvo OE opinion, we all want to see if the iPd control arms will perform on par with them. Thanks, ShadowDancer for taking the plunge and being the first to have them installed on your XC90 and giving us feedback.

My preference is still the polyurethane bushings, but for those that cannot pay the amount (or DIY the labor) for new bushings, pressing in new bushings, and control arm remove/replace, let's hope these will be a good rubber bushing option. Time and miles will tell.
I really did want to try your set-up, Chi. I had the bushings spec'd out and ready to buy-now. But with the labor rates I was being quoted + the cost of the bushings themselves + new bolts and grease, and then the fact that no one I spoke to would warranty the work or the alignment, I just could not make the economic justification or reasoned logic decision to do it right now.

My end cost would have been 2.5x the iPDs and no warranty.

Sidenote: Did I tell you my radio came back to life?! No reason. No idea how either. I was away on a business trip for 2 weeks. The battery went flat. Not even enough power to turn on the courtesy lights or power door locks. Got a jump from a friend the same night. Once there was enough power to get the ACC position to light up the car, the NAV screen suddenly jumped up and everything on the entertainment side began working again, 100%. So odd. I guess I know if I even run into this issue again, disconnect that battery overnight and see what happens the next day.
 
#50 ·
Got mine in yesterday and today. Shoulda been easy, but got tripped up with frozen ball joints, and even more frozen inner tie rods. I actually needed to deploy fire on the jam nut. Never seen anything like this.

I think the two questions folks want answers to are these:

Are IPD's HD arms a performance upgrade?

Pretty much a solid "no". "Responsiveness" is virtually identical to the old arms on the car.

Will these last longer than other options?

Time will tell. Old arms had many, many miles on them (140K, I suspect), and were likely original to the car.

-Ryan
 
#51 ·
Just installed the IPD control arms to replace an 11-month-old set of Lemforders which seemed fine at first, but then over last summer I started getting some high-speed crosswind instability that was getting more and more annoying. Learned that Lemforders didn't necessarily last that long (and I had installed them in the original control arms), so figured I would swap in the IPDs while I was replacing my alternator. Side-by-side on the garage floor, the Lemforder bushings, particularly the rears, were noticeably softer than the IPDs. Will post any updates here as time passes.
 
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