Certified S60 question (about corrosion)
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    1. #1
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      Certified S60 question (about corrosion)

      Hi folks...

      Bought a new (to me) certified Volvo S60 (second Volvo I've ever owned...had a V70R for a while). Deal seemed really good (under 20k for a a 2017 with around 31k miles on it and 2.5 years warranty) so I jumped on it (out of state).

      Long story short, the local mechanic who did the inspection found that there was significant amounts of corrosion under the hood, around the engine, starter, etc. I figured since it was certified, this wouldn't be a concern. The mechanic recommended shorter intervals for oil changes, use of high octane fuel, and that he could try to treat some of the corrosion.

      My question is whether it should have been certified given the corrosion (some of it looks significant...like it was parked next to the beach for a while).

      Any thoughts or advice?

      Thanks.

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    3. #2
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      Got any pics?

    4. #3
      Quote Originally Posted by kavu View Post
      Hi folks...

      Bought a new (to me) certified Volvo S60 (second Volvo I've ever owned...had a V70R for a while). Deal seemed really good (under 20k for a a 2017 with around 31k miles on it and 2.5 years warranty) so I jumped on it (out of state).

      Long story short, the local mechanic who did the inspection found that there was significant amounts of corrosion under the hood, around the engine, starter, etc. I figured since it was certified, this wouldn't be a concern. The mechanic recommended shorter intervals for oil changes, use of high octane fuel, and that he could try to treat some of the corrosion.

      My question is whether it should have been certified given the corrosion (some of it looks significant...like it was parked next to the beach for a while).

      Any thoughts or advice?

      Thanks.
      When you say corrosion do you mean Surface Rust or actual corrosion that has eaten through panels? Pictures would really help here so we can offer proper guidance.

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    6. #4
      Member msmith's Avatar
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      What state was the car purchased in? Under $20K for a 2017??? Seems too good a deal. Is it possible this could be a flood car?
      In the driveway: 2012 S60 T6 AWD | Black/Beechwood | Premium/Climate/Convenience Packages | BLIS | Sunroof | Active Bending Bi-Xenon | iPd Skid Plate | TFT DIM upgrade (mine), ... Former - 2006 S40 2.4i M56
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    7. #5
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      I will take some pics for folks and post them.

      If it is was a flood car, would they have certified it? The carfax was clean and there is no other indication (that I can see) that it is a flood car. Plus, my local mechanic would have caught it...he knows cars.

    8. #6
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      Let's wait for some pictures before starting a debate about how cars are certified

    9. #7
      Quote Originally Posted by kavu View Post
      I will take some pics for folks and post them.

      If it is was a flood car, would they have certified it? The carfax was clean and there is no other indication (that I can see) that it is a flood car. Plus, my local mechanic would have caught it...he knows cars.
      Cars can be "washed" as they move through auctions and various states. Where X damage falls off the title, ends up on a lot, and is sold as if the vehicle was meticulously cared for and never suffered X damage.

      We really need pictures to make any determination about what may or may not be a problem.

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    11. #9
      Member Veefifty T5AWD's Avatar
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      Where is the car from? I live in the northeast and have noticed similar looking "corrosion" on parts like the oil pan. Mine wipes off...
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    12. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by Veefifty T5AWD View Post
      Where is the car from? I live in the northeast and have noticed similar looking "corrosion" on parts like the oil pan. Mine wipes off...
      I bought it at Volvo of Manhattan (I live in Pa.). Per the carfax, it spent time in Northvale, NJ.

    13. #11
      Senior Member Wayne T5's Avatar
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      That's nothing to be concerned with. Aluminum or alloy parts under hood will get that type of corrosion especially if the car has lived in an area where salt is used on the roads. I would be more concerned with body panels and frame if there was extensive rust.
      Past: '94 854, '99 S70 T5 SE, '99 S70 GLT, '04 S60R M, '12 S60 T5, '13 S60 T5, '15 S60 RD, '05 V70R GT
      Present: '95 854 T-5R, '06 XC70, '15 XC70 T6, '15.5 XC60 T6, '16 V60 P*

    14. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Wayne T5 View Post
      That's nothing to be concerned with. Aluminum or alloy parts under hood will get that type of corrosion especially if the car has lived in an area where salt is used on the roads. I would be more concerned with body panels and frame if there was extensive rust.
      Thanks. The body (as far as I can tell) looks fine. Glad to hear you don't think this is a reason to be concerned.

      My mechanic brought it up, suggesting it may have long term impact. As I mentioned above, he also recommended I do oil changes every 6k max, and that I should use premium gas (which I haven't tried yet...but after reading these boards, I will on my next fill up). I guess there was additional corrosion in or around the engine he was concerned about.

      I'm not a true "car person", so I wasn't sure how concerned I should be (I'd like to keep this car a long time if possible).

    15. #13
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      Hate to break it to you but your mechanic doesn't know cars as well as you think.

    16. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Hate to break it to you but your mechanic doesn't know cars as well as you think.
      That's not the worst news ever, I suppose. Do you concur with the assessment about not worrying about this? Any other recommendations (other than finding a new mechanic)?

    17. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Hate to break it to you but your mechanic doesn't know cars as well as you think.
      I think it's more likely that the mechanic knows cars reasonably well and also knew that the OP doesn't know cars. The recommendation to let the mechanic "treat" the corrosion makes me think the mechanic is seeing dollar signs.

      I know most mechanics are as honest as you are, Tech, but one who recommends "treating" standard surface oxidation on aluminum parts sets my scammer alert on high so I'm inclined to think this is less ignorance and more scam based on those photos.

      EDIT: OP, don't worry at all about that. Aluminum parts will develop surface corrosion like that, but the surface corrosion actually protects it from corroding further because it isolates the aluminum below it from oxidizing agents. Aluminum oxidation is not like iron/steel oxidation.
      Last edited by zenmervolt; 05-17-2019 at 11:07 AM.
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    18. #16
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      I absolutely concur. I work on these all day, there is nothing out of the ordinary in those pictures. I'm curious how he was going to "treat" the corrosion.

      The oil change interval is 10k miles. Yeah, you could do 6k and that obviously wouldn't hurt. But it sounds like he makes it seem absolutely critical to never pass 6k.
      Last edited by Tech; 05-17-2019 at 11:23 AM.

    19. #17
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      Ok...thanks...there is always a chance he was referring to some corrosion on the engine itself (or...?) that I did not take a picture of, but I figured this must be some of what he referred to...

      Also, the engine is a T5 (awd)...is that considered Drive-E?

    20. #18
      Senior Member Wayne T5's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kavu View Post
      Ok...thanks...there is always a chance he was referring to some corrosion on the engine itself (or...?) that I did not take a picture of, but I figured this must be some of what he referred to...

      Also, the engine is a T5 (awd)...is that considered Drive-E?
      Yes, for 2017 the T5 is a Drive-E, ie 4 cylinder engine. Drive-E is Volvo's nomenclature for this engine platform when it was introduced 8 or 9 years ago. "T5" used to mean it was a turbocharged 5 cylinder motor but like many other manufacturers Volvo changed the motor but kept the T5 name.
      Past: '94 854, '99 S70 T5 SE, '99 S70 GLT, '04 S60R M, '12 S60 T5, '13 S60 T5, '15 S60 RD, '05 V70R GT
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    21. #19
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      I do my oil changes every 5k Dont trust any oil that will last 10k . Not going to be one of those people that will get engine issues once warranty is over and i have to pay from my own packet . Drive E is anything from 2015.5 model and up.. and T5 saying it takes regular 85 fuel but T6 with supercharge and turbo saying needs 91
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    22. #20
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      Not all 2015.5 and up use the Drive-E. And the T5 in 2017 requires 87 octane, not 91.

    23. #21
      Junior Member meade18's Avatar
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      From the owner's manual:

      Volvo recommends premium fuel for best performance, but using 87 octane or above will not affect engine reliability.
      NOTE
      Vehicles equipped with high performance 4-cylinder engines require premium fuel. Consult your Volvo retailer if you are unsure about the fuel requirements for your vehicle.
      As for oil change interval, I am in favor of changing the oil in a shorter amount of time than Volvo requires. I base that on hearing from enough people that know their way around cars that 10,000 miles is a really long oil change interval and they wouldn't go that long without changing the oil in their car. It is unlikely that a 10k mile oil change interval will have a huge detrimental effect on your engine's reliability. But it is also unlikely that a piece of your piston and piston ring breaks off, yet that happened to me (not because of the regular gas and long oil changes though). I have a new engine now and decided the cost difference of using 93 octane gas and changing my oil more frequently isn't that significant, so that's what I do.
      2015.5 Volvo V60 Premier T5 FWD (with a new engine)

    24. #22
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      So, just out of curiosity, Tech, do you think (based on those pictures or your experience working on these cars) there could be any type of related corrosion on/in the engine itself that actually would be concerning?

    25. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by kavu View Post
      So, just out of curiosity, Tech, do you think (based on those pictures or your experience working on these cars) there could be any type of related corrosion on/in the engine itself that actually would be concerning?
      Based on those pictures of a totally normal condition- no. Not at all.

    26. #24
      Quote Originally Posted by kavu View Post
      Thanks. The body (as far as I can tell) looks fine. Glad to hear you don't think this is a reason to be concerned.

      My mechanic brought it up, suggesting it may have long term impact. As I mentioned above, he also recommended I do oil changes every 6k max, and that I should use premium gas (which I haven't tried yet...but after reading these boards, I will on my next fill up). I guess there was additional corrosion in or around the engine he was concerned about.

      I'm not a true "car person", so I wasn't sure how concerned I should be (I'd like to keep this car a long time if possible).
      Surface Rust / Salt.... Enjoy the car. Nothing to be concerned about here...

      Now to share the specs...

      FWD? AWD? Platinum? Or what features? ~ $20,000 and 31K miles... With 2.5 yrs on CPO? Damn good deal.

    27. #25
      Quote Originally Posted by zenmervolt View Post
      I think it's more likely that the mechanic knows cars reasonably well and also knew that the OP doesn't know cars. The recommendation to let the mechanic "treat" the corrosion makes me think the mechanic is seeing dollar signs.

      I know most mechanics are as honest as you are, Tech, but one who recommends "treating" standard surface oxidation on aluminum parts sets my scammer alert on high so I'm inclined to think this is less ignorance and more scam based on those photos.

      EDIT: OP, don't worry at all about that. Aluminum parts will develop surface corrosion like that, but the surface corrosion actually protects it from corroding further because it isolates the aluminum below it from oxidizing agents. Aluminum oxidation is not like iron/steel oxidation.
      Agreed. I think the mechanic saw a sucker and thought he'd cash in on some "rust treatments".....Time for a new mechanic.

    28. #26
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      I absolutely concur. I work on these all day, there is nothing out of the ordinary in those pictures. I'm curious how he was going to "treat" the corrosion.

      The oil change interval is 10k miles. Yeah, you could do 6k and that obviously wouldn't hurt. But it sounds like he makes it seem absolutely critical to never pass 6k.
      Probably pull a Ziebart on the car, and if you know anything about Ziebart, they are hacks who damage your car and take the money. Sell OP 1000s in "Corrosion Packages" that do very little....

    29. #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Not all 2015.5 and up use the Drive-E. And the T5 in 2017 requires 87 octane, not 91.
      Could you explain that one? I thought Volvo Turbo's recommend 91 with Top Tier being a good choice? Is it because OP has a T5 AWD Drive-E that 87 is recommended instead?

    30. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Not all 2015.5 and up use the Drive-E. And the T5 in 2017 requires 87 octane, not 91.
      Could you explain that one? I thought Volvo Turbo's recommend 91 with Top Tier being a good choice? Is it because OP has a T5 AWD Drive-E that 87 is recommended instead?
      "Recommend" is not the same as "required."

      Volvo "recommends" premium on all turbo engines for maximum power, but on non-polestar (and non-twincharged) cars regular 87 is all that is "required" because the ECU is programmed to pull boost and timing with 87 octane fuel well before any damage can occur.
      Last edited by zenmervolt; 05-18-2019 at 12:36 AM.
      I'm not good, I'm not nice, I'm just right.
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    31. #29
      Quote Originally Posted by zenmervolt View Post
      "Recommend" is not the same as "required."

      Volvo "recommends" premium on all turbo engines for maximum power, but on non-polestar (and non-twincharged) cars regular 87 is all that is "required" because the ECU is programmed to pull boost and timing with 87 octane fuel well before any damage can occur.
      Unless I am misinterpreting tech's statement, he says the T5 in 2017 requires 87 octane and not 91...Meaning 87 is what you're suppose to use?

      Which is why I am confused.

    32. #30
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      If a car requires 87, you can use 89 or 91 or 93, etc.

      If a car requires 91, you can't (or shouldn't) use 89 or 87.

    33. #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      If a car requires 87, you can use 89 or 91 or 93, etc.

      If a car requires 91, you can't (or shouldn't) use 89 or 87.
      Thanks for the clarification... Can't pretty much all the Drive-E T5s get away with 87 octane? I personally tried it in mine and I subjectively felt the performance sucked...Felt like the engine was lagging and not as peppy.

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      Yeah, you can use 87 and be just fine.

      I don't drive a Drive-E, but my P2 recommends 91. I've never used 91 in the 170k I've put on it and it runs just fine.

    35. #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Yeah, you can use 87 and be just fine.

      I don't drive a Drive-E, but my P2 recommends 91. I've never used 91 in the 170k I've put on it and it runs just fine.
      Would have never pictured you in a p2.. Figured you'd be sporting at least a P3 or in the New 2019'sthat rolled out.

    36. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      Surface Rust / Salt.... Enjoy the car. Nothing to be concerned about here...

      Now to share the specs...

      FWD? AWD? Platinum? Or what features? ~ $20,000 and 31K miles... With 2.5 yrs on CPO? Damn good deal.
      It's an AWD T5...not a whole lot in the way of extras. Ad said it had the premium stereo, but it didn't But it was just a bit under 20k for a CPO with 31k miles and 2.5 years of warranty. Ticked enough boxes to go for it (and they gave me what I requested on trade). Hesitated a bit b/c I thought I might want a wagon, but this seemed like too good a deal to pass up. It sat around the dealership a long time and they wanted it gone (as evidenced by how low the tire pressure was off the lot...driving home I thought there was something wrong with the car).

      I just put premium gas in yesterday for the first time and drove 3 hours. I kept wondering whether it was a placebo effect or not, but the car felt quite a bit more peppy/responsive. Starting to really love this car...

    37. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by kavu View Post
      I just put premium gas in yesterday for the first time and drove 3 hours. I kept wondering whether it was a placebo effect or not, but the car felt quite a bit more peppy/responsive. Starting to really love this car...
      The car was probably pulling back boost or timing a little on regular gas. Nothing to worry about, just normal operation. Making a bit more power on premium is expected for these cars (and most turbocharged cars, really).
      I'm not good, I'm not nice, I'm just right.
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