Volvo Direct Injection Engines and Oil Catch Cans?
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    1. #1
      Junior Member Volvolic's Avatar
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      Volvo Direct Injection Engines and Oil Catch Cans?

      This thought just occurred to me. Being a DI engine, has anybody had a chance to look at their Intake ports and find sludge formations?

      I tried googling more about the new Volvo engines and didn't find much information on it.

      Anybody got more information on the same? Do we already have catch-cans installed in our Volvos? Do we probably need one? Do we not need one?
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    3. #2
      Member lamarguy's Avatar
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      Excessive intake valve deposits haven't been reported on the drive-e engines and the PCV oil separator appears to do its job well. It's not worth the effort and potential side effects of installing a catch can.

      If you're worried about it, use a low NOACK oil (Pennzoil Ultra, Amsoil, etc). The oils with lower NOACK volatility/impurities have been shown to produce less intake valve deposits.
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      I've had plenty of Drive-E intakes off and the valves always look nasty. Haven't had a problem attributed to the valves yet though.

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    6. #4
      Junior Member Volvolic's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by lamarguy View Post
      Excessive intake valve deposits haven't been reported on the drive-e engines and the PCV oil separator appears to do its job well. It's not worth the effort and potential side effects of installing a catch can.

      If you're worried about it, use a low NOACK oil (Pennzoil Ultra, Amsoil, etc). The oils with lower NOACK volatility/impurities have been shown to produce less intake valve deposits.
      Thank you for your reply. Yes. Even I am surprised to see no mention of intake valve deposits on newer Volvo Engines, although it might be too soon for Volvo engines to show valve deposit issues. The only reason I'm worried about is the inherent issue with DI engines and intake valve deposits (sooner or later).

      I do use Pennzoil Ultra platinum for my oil changes.

      If not a catch-can, I am wondering if there's any way to periodically clean the intake valve without having to take the engine off or damaging the super/turbo charger. I plan to own my Volvo for a zillion miles (if possible) and the longevity of the drivetrain does worry me at times.
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    7. #5
      Junior Member Volvolic's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      I've had plenty of Drive-E intakes off and the valves always look nasty. Haven't had a problem attributed to the valves yet though.
      Dang! DI! Thou art a Bi**h. I wish there is some way to have preventive maintenance done for valves without pulling anything out! Or maybe the catch-can idea sounds good after all.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Volvolic View Post
      Thank you for your reply. Yes. Even I am surprised to see no mention of intake valve deposits on newer Volvo Engines, although it might be too soon for Volvo engines to show valve deposit issues. The only reason I'm worried about is the inherent issue with DI engines and intake valve deposits (sooner or later).

      I do use Pennzoil Ultra platinum for my oil changes.

      If not a catch-can, I am wondering if there's any way to periodically clean the intake valve without having to take the engine off or damaging the super/turbo charger. I plan to own my Volvo for a zillion miles (if possible) and the longevity of the drivetrain does worry me at times.
      When I have time I was going to install a catch can. Volvo dealer said no problem with warranty unless you do something stupid and cause a problem.
      Also looking at CRC intake valve cleaner.

    9. #7
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      Thank you for posting your concerns with DI engines and the issue of intake valve deposits inherent to DI engines. Asking around about these engines that have been used for several years by Volvo I don't find people speaking of issues related to service or warranty service issues. Unlike the problems with Volkswagen's that are easy to find on the net. I wonder if the super charger in the t6 version helps burn fuel cleaner. A local sales guy said he know of know issue with the Drive-E engines during the last few years. I have read the catch can is helpful. Hope they come us with ways to prevent this service issue. Nice engines, but it appears that only Toyota has come up with an engineered solution.

    10. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mike999 View Post
      Thank you for posting your concerns with DI engines and the issue of intake valve deposits inherent to DI engines. Asking around about these engines that have been used for several years by Volvo I don't find people speaking of issues related to service or warranty service issues. Unlike the problems with Volkswagen's that are easy to find on the net. I wonder if the super charger in the t6 version helps burn fuel cleaner. A local sales guy said he know of know issue with the Drive-E engines during the last few years. I have read the catch can is helpful. Hope they come us with ways to prevent this service issue. Nice engines, but it appears that only Toyota has come up with an engineered solution.

      Oh, sweet, sweet irony.

    11. #9
      Member Oceans60R's Avatar
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      Drive-E Engines use the Evaporative Purge System to help keep valve deposits to a minimum. I've pulled plenty of intakes and the intake valves do get some deposits but nothing at all like I've seen on other brands such as BMW, Mini. I've seen BMW N54 engine intake ports almost completely blocked up where even a pencil would not make it past the intake passage. BMW also has known valve seal issues which also cause even more buildup of carbon. 2018 Drive E has a updated Purge System that should help even more.
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      I use Techron direct-injection cleaner every 5,000 miles plus Techron fuel-injection system cleaner every 10,000. And Tier One gas. Yes, I know that Volvo says to not use any fuel additive, but I think that's more a matter of their not being able to test and verify every mouse milk on the market, so it's easier just to blanket prohibit them all. And what Techron uses in its cleaners is already in the high-quality gas you burn (assuming that's what you buy).

    13. #11
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Any drive-e with 40k miles or more has severe sludge on the valves. So much so that we ran a BG induction cleaner and then a wire brush on a drill to clean my co-workers engine out. He said the start/stop operated smoother and vehicle ran a ton better after doing so.

      IF i end up keeping a Volvo for more than 2 years/15k miles, I would do the same exact thing.
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    14. #12
      Junior Member Volvolic's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by GRUENDIG View Post
      When I have time I was going to install a catch can. Volvo dealer said no problem with warranty unless you do something stupid and cause a problem.
      Also looking at CRC intake valve cleaner.
      I do look forward to a DIY thread if you end up doing it yourself. I'll most probably have the same installed soon.

      Quote Originally Posted by Oceans60R View Post
      Drive-E Engines use the Evaporative Purge System to help keep valve deposits to a minimum. I've pulled plenty of intakes and the intake valves do get some deposits but nothing at all like I've seen on other brands such as BMW, Mini. I've seen BMW N54 engine intake ports almost completely blocked up where even a pencil would not make it past the intake passage. BMW also has known valve seal issues which also cause even more buildup of carbon. 2018 Drive E has a updated Purge System that should help even more.
      Yes. I've heard horror stories about ze german DI engines choking up the intake. But that does not help our cause. Any Vehicle with DI will more or less end up with intake valve issues no matter how efficient the system it. It's the nature of the beast. Unless you add a port injection and/or use cleaners to flush out the crud from the intake, it will happen, sooner or later. Maybe much much later than the german DI engines, but it will, none the less. And that's what gets me worried.

      Quote Originally Posted by porschie356 View Post
      I use Techron direct-injection cleaner every 5,000 miles plus Techron fuel-injection system cleaner every 10,000. And Tier One gas. Yes, I know that Volvo says to not use any fuel additive, but I think that's more a matter of their not being able to test and verify every mouse milk on the market, so it's easier just to blanket prohibit them all. And what Techron uses in its cleaners is already in the high-quality gas you burn (assuming that's what you buy).
      Yes, Sir. I only use 93 Oct fuel in my Vehicle. Thank you for the Techron suggestion. I'll surely do some more looking around on it and end up probably using it.

      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Any drive-e with 40k miles or more has severe sludge on the valves. So much so that we ran a BG induction cleaner and then a wire brush on a drill to clean my co-workers engine out. He said the start/stop operated smoother and vehicle ran a ton better after doing so.

      IF i end up keeping a Volvo for more than 2 years/15k miles, I would do the same exact thing.
      I am already at 33-33.5k miles on my 11-month old V90CC and this is exactly what I'm worried about. I'll look into the induction cleaner and I hope I end up finding something which is more hands-on and doesn't require me to take my Vehicle to the shop every time I need to do my preventive maintenance. Thank you for the suggestion. I'll also ask around my local dealership if they have any periodic cleaning programs that don't cost an arm-and-leg.
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    15. #13
      Junior Member pocholin's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by lamarguy View Post
      It's not worth the effort and potential side effects of installing a catch can.
      I had a catch can in my N54 BMW (infamous for carbon build up) for 40k miles and only got benefits from using it. This is the first time I hear about side effects or disadvantages or putting a catch can. Can you share what those side effects are?
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      I'm confused by the people saying they use various cleaner/additives to deal with build-up on the valves. It's direct injection, so your additive, along with the fuel, is being injected directly into the combustion chamber and is never hitting the valves in the first place.

      Am I missing something?

      I'd also be cautious on changing up your oil, for oils that are low in zinc and phosphorous. You need those for the health and longevity of the turbo.

    17. #15
      Junior Member Volvolic's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nbvolks View Post
      I'm confused by the people saying they use various cleaner/additives to deal with build-up on the valves. It's direct injection, so your additive, along with the fuel, is being injected directly into the combustion chamber and is never hitting the valves in the first place.

      Am I missing something?

      I'd also be cautious on changing up your oil, for oils that are low in zinc and phosphorous. You need those for the health and longevity of the turbo.
      Yes. You're right. Additives put into the Gas tank are useless to clean up your Intake in case of DI. The CRC spray mentioned here is for spraying directly into the air intake path. Behind the MAF and before the Throttle body. That does help breakdown build-up.
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    18. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by porschie356 View Post
      I use Techron direct-injection cleaner every 5,000 miles plus Techron fuel-injection system cleaner every 10,000. And Tier One gas. Yes, I know that Volvo says to not use any fuel additive, but I think that's more a matter of their not being able to test and verify every mouse milk on the market, so it's easier just to blanket prohibit them all. And what Techron uses in its cleaners is already in the high-quality gas you burn (assuming that's what you buy).
      How does Techron clean the valves?? Fuel injectors yes, valves??

    19. #17
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      I'm mainly concerned with keeping the injectors clean and spraying properly. Dirty valve backsides, not so much.

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      Quote Originally Posted by porschie356 View Post
      I'm mainly concerned with keeping the injectors clean and spraying properly. Dirty valve backsides, not so much.
      But the injector isn't going to get any dirtier because it's DI. The backsides of the valves do. That matters because it can eventually impact their ability to properly close and give proper compression.

    21. #19
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by GRUENDIG View Post
      How does Techron clean the valves?? Fuel injectors yes, valves??
      The ridiculously high pressure those injectors shoot out stops them from getting clogged. I have yet to see that happen.
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    22. #20
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      The injectors don't need to be cleaned, nor will it reduce carbon build-up on valves, so you're wasting your money on Techron. Any benefit you feel is placebo.

      A high quality catch-can (one that actually has sufficient baffling) can help a little.

      After a valve cleaning, a water injection system can help prevent the build-up from reoccurring, but the real fix -and this was my comment earlier- is returning to port injection.

    23. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Any drive-e with 40k miles or more has severe sludge on the valves. So much so that we ran a BG induction cleaner and then a wire brush on a drill to clean my co-workers engine out. He said the start/stop operated smoother and vehicle ran a ton better after doing so.

      IF i end up keeping a Volvo for more than 2 years/15k miles, I would do the same exact thing.
      What service should be requested at the dealership to care for this and how often should it be done? My 2016 XC60 is experiencing a rough start from the engine stop, so much so I was worried that an engine mount might be an issue. Currently there are over 72K miles on it.

    24. #22
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by CTXC60RD View Post
      What service should be requested at the dealership to care for this and how often should it be done? My 2016 XC60 is experiencing a rough start from the engine stop, so much so I was worried that an engine mount might be an issue. Currently there are over 72K miles on it.
      I recommend asking at your 50k to have an induction clean performed. Wynns, BG, and Bardahl all have kits for it that most dealers should have.

      I am not a fan of selling flushes without some complaint or need but this induction clean has been proven to be needed by the test we ran in the shop with the BG rep on an employees car.
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    25. #23
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      ALL DI engines WILL suffer from this sooner or later. Yes, the PCV system may do it's job well, and maybe it's slower to build up than BMWs or Volkswagens, but gasonline is a good solvent, and not having it flow over your intake valves means oil vapors from the PCV will eventually build up over time and mileage.

      This is the list of Volvo's VIP coverage exclusions: http://volvo.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9787

      Pay particular note to: "Burnt valves, worn or carbon fouled piston rings, any mechanical breakdown resulting from a build up of carbon, the correction of oil consumption, or any repairs for reduction in engine efficiency that must be performed on your Volvo."

      Read: YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN FOR CARBON BUILDUP.

      PCV oil traps are a good idea on all DI vehicles in my opinion, particularly turbocharged ones, as it is only a matter of time before the valves carbon up.

      Running premium fuel is a good way to prolong this buildup, but it won't prevent it altogether.

    26. #24
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      Question re: carbon deposit build up on the intake valves

      Quote Originally Posted by catfish93 View Post
      ALL DI engines WILL suffer from this sooner or later. Yes, the PCV system may do it's job well, and maybe it's slower to build up than BMWs or Volkswagens, but gasonline is a good solvent, and not having it flow over your intake valves means oil vapors from the PCV will eventually build up over time and mileage.

      This is the list of Volvo's VIP coverage exclusions: http://volvo.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9787

      Pay particular note to: "Burnt valves, worn or carbon fouled piston rings, any mechanical breakdown resulting from a build up of carbon, the correction of oil consumption, or any repairs for reduction in engine efficiency that must be performed on your Volvo."

      Read: YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN FOR CARBON BUILDUP.

      PCV oil traps are a good idea on all DI vehicles in my opinion, particularly turbocharged ones, as it is only a matter of time before the valves carbon up.

      Running premium fuel is a good way to prolong this buildup, but it won't prevent it altogether.
      Do long trips where the engine and all parts get heated up real well make any difference in preventing or reducing the carbon build up? Conversely, do frequent, short trips where the engine does not get very hot contribute to carbon build up?

    27. #25
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      The initial 10K service and oil change on my certified 2018 V90CC was not done until over 14,000 miles. Could this add to sludge or other issues because the oil may have begun to break down?

    28. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by catfish93 View Post
      ALL DI engines WILL suffer from this sooner or later. Yes, the PCV system may do it's job well, and maybe it's slower to build up than BMWs or Volkswagens, but gasonline is a good solvent, and not having it flow over your intake valves means oil vapors from the PCV will eventually build up over time and mileage.

      This is the list of Volvo's VIP coverage exclusions: http://volvo.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9787

      Pay particular note to: "Burnt valves, worn or carbon fouled piston rings, any mechanical breakdown resulting from a build up of carbon, the correction of oil consumption, or any repairs for reduction in engine efficiency that must be performed on your Volvo."

      Read: YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN FOR CARBON BUILDUP.

      PCV oil traps are a good idea on all DI vehicles in my opinion, particularly turbocharged ones, as it is only a matter of time before the valves carbon up.

      Running premium fuel is a good way to prolong this buildup, but it won't prevent it altogether.
      This is why I’m glad I got the “complicated” T8 because 10,000 miles is not really 10,000 engine miles/hours.
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