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    1. #1
      Member BigBang's Avatar
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      Software upgrade

      Today, I made a software upgrade (size 550MB)
      The system is much more rapid, the maps appear on the driver's display 50% faster than before

      I did not have the opportunity to test a new software upgrade for the engine (a problem with rapid acceleration) I hope they finally did it
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    3. #2
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      Today, I made a software upgrade (size 550MB)
      The system is much more rapid, the maps appear on the driver's display 50% faster than before

      I did not have the opportunity to test a new software upgrade for the engine (a problem with rapid acceleration) I hope they finally did it
      Did you do this yourself or from the dealer? If you did it yourself where did you download it form?

      What is the latest version number you installed?

      Thanks

    4. #3
      Member BigBang's Avatar
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      That's what the dealer did, it's the latest version of the software.
      At Volvo, there is no possibility to install the software yourself


      This:
      https://www.volvocars.com/my/support...a801515970036d
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      That's what the dealer did, it's the latest version of the software.
      At Volvo, there is no possibility to install the software yourself


      This:
      https://www.volvocars.com/my/support...a801515970036d
      If you buy the OBDII-Ethernet cable, and 3-day VIDA subscription, you can install software updates too.
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    7. #5
      Member BigBang's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      If you buy the OBDII-Ethernet cable, and 3-day VIDA subscription, you can install software updates too.
      I asked the technician in a Volvo service station and he replied that there was no possibility of upgrading the software in that way for all modules

      FYI: you do not have access to engine management system optimization
      Last edited by BigBang; 05-29-2019 at 04:28 PM.
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    8. #6
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      If you buy the OBDII-Ethernet cable, and 3-day VIDA subscription, you can install software updates too.
      I cant wait for a customer to turn their car "upside down" attempting to download something like a 600mb total upgrade. I have software fail and shut down vehicles for hours with ideal and perfect conditions in a shop for no reason.
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      If you buy the OBDII-Ethernet cable, and 3-day VIDA subscription, you can install software updates too.
      I cant wait for a customer to turn their car "upside down" attempting to download something like a 600mb total upgrade. I have software fail and shut down vehicles for hours with ideal and perfect conditions in a shop for no reason.
      I was thinking the same thing. Why do it yourself when they are free? Once you're out of warranty, buy the service or pay for the upgrade if your dealer will let you. I shoulsnt risk it on a SPA car.

    10. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      I was thinking the same thing. Why do it yourself when they are free? Once you're out of warranty, buy the service or pay for the upgrade if your dealer will let you. I shoulsnt risk it on a SPA car.
      I am scheduled for our first maintenance @ 10k next month. Will the dealership automatically update the software?

    11. #9
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      People already did it successfully.

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    12. #10
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      Never said it was impossible. I do them successfully all the time. But like gunshow, I've also seen them crash for no reason and lock up IHUs or need new VCMs. Those modules aren't cheap.
      Last edited by Tech; 05-29-2019 at 07:25 PM.

    13. #11
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      So far I've done 3 or 4 "total upgrades" myself without issue.

      I even had a VIDA tech support person (after a new platform update broke DIY updates) yell at me saying "I've never seen a car have so many updates, what are you trying to do to it?".

      My answer: "keep it up to date?". Like that's somehow a bad thing?

      Never had a failed download, never had a Sensus crash, and always have had fairly smooth performance (except slow boot, obviously) since I've owned it.

      You do have to use a relatively high current and decent quality battery charger to keep the 12V rail stable during long updates... And you should always treat the update process carefully, like flashing a BIOS on a computer... But if you follow the instructions exactly, I've yet to see something "dangerous" about DIY updates.

      I am quite "tech savvy", as I work as a systems analyst, but I don't see why other similarly inclined folks would have a problem? If it bricks a module and you followed the VIDA procedures, that's on Volvo to fix/replace, as you are not violating the warranty by using VIDA as described in the Volvo documentation. Shrug.

      The other thing I personally do is dump the entire software module list to a PDF after each update. Then I can diff the PDFs to see exactly what modules were upgraded each time. Quite interesting to see... Like the 4-5 updates to the ASDM (MobileEye/Pilot Assist) since I took delivery last August?

      Volvo doesn't publish full change logs, so it's really the only way to know exactly what's been updated.
      Last edited by shammyh; 05-30-2019 at 01:36 AM.
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    14. #12
      Member BigBang's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      People already did it successfully.

      Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk
      What if the module crash down, ie it does not succeed in upgrading
      Do you know how much it costs, why to take risks if something is free
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      What if the module crash down, ie it does not succeed in upgrading
      Do you know how much it costs, why to take risks if something is free
      It's not free. It's only free during a service visit, which is typically only once a year. Otherwise, all my local dealers charge for the software, and the hourly rate is more than a 3 day VIDA subscription.
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      What if the module crash down, ie it does not succeed in upgrading
      Do you know how much it costs, why to take risks if something is free
      There's also special modes accessible to help recover "failed" flashes. And in SPA cars, the upgrade process is improved with Ethernet-to-Can as opposed to the old DiCE interfaces.
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    17. #15
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      What if the module crash down, ie it does not succeed in upgrading
      Do you know how much it costs, why to take risks if something is free
      Depends on how bad the crash is. Sometimes we have to get Volvo to remote access the vehicle and put in secret software or we can get lucky my reloading each individual module that went "offline" or "upside down".

      If you turn the car upside down yourself, you are on the hook for a tow bill and probably a minimum of 2-3 hours and how much all the reload softwares cost.

      ALSO, if you fry a module by turning it upside down as I have seen with IHU's back in the day, thats about $2300 just for the IHU Good luck on getting Volvo to warranty something you fried.
      Last edited by gunshow; 05-30-2019 at 05:46 AM.
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    18. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by shammyh View Post
      There's also special modes accessible to help recover "failed" flashes. And in SPA cars, the upgrade process is improved with Ethernet-to-Can as opposed to the old DiCE interfaces.
      Not sure what "special modes" you are talking about... maybe you should teach a volvo class.

      The upgrade is no less or more reliable than DICE. In fact, I would say LESS reliable due to the random failures we get on SPA vehicles which never occurred with DICE on older vehicles.
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    19. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by shammyh View Post
      It's not free. It's only free during a service visit, which is typically only once a year. Otherwise, all my local dealers charge for the software, and the hourly rate is more than a 3 day VIDA subscription.
      Upgrades are free.
      I made 3 upgrades, one was on regular service after a year and the other two only software upgrades, probably depending on the market

      Quote Originally Posted by shammyh View Post
      There's also special modes accessible to help recover "failed" flashes. And in SPA cars, the upgrade process is improved with Ethernet-to-Can as opposed to the old DiCE interfaces.
      Too complicated for ordinary users and I think it's not available outside the service.
      Volvo is limited as far as tools and software upgrades are out of service, compared to Audi (VCDS, VAG CAN PRO, ODIS-S, ODIS-E, X431 Launch, OBDeleven ................) or BMW ( ISTA-D ISTA-P , E-sys, X431 Launch.......)
      Last edited by BigBang; 05-30-2019 at 06:41 AM.
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    20. #18
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      Truth is that since all new cars are having Volvo on Call or whatever other makers call it, which VoC we pay for it, such software updates should be happening the Tesla style, OTA with a warning to do them only overnight or at a time that the car will not be used for x amount of time. I believe in the future this will be the case and customers will not have to wait for their annual (in most cases) service appointment to receive all new and most important safety related features, which should be available to all instantly, (especially if you a car manufacturer who aims in no lethal accidents by next year.
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    21. #19
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      Although I am tech savvy, my risk assessment overwhelmingly swings to have trained technicians install the total software / service 2.0 updates.

      Complimentary software updates (which I get about 2-3 times per year) installed by trained technicians are good enough and soon enough for me.
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      The industry is moving to full free updates. Volvo needs to get with the times. The idea we can't have these updates except every 10k is ridiculous.
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    23. #21
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      What's unbelievable, since February 2018 there were 6 upgrades (for 16 months ) , I've never experienced it with previous cars.
      It is obvious that Volvo has problems with its software department as it constantly issues upgrades and software updates
      Last edited by BigBang; 05-30-2019 at 08:48 AM.
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    24. #22
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Gary-16-Xc90 View Post
      Complimentary software updates (which I get about 2-3 times per year) installed by trained technicians are good enough and soon enough for me.
      You are 100% correct and pretty much the way every body on here should see it.

      Quote Originally Posted by xgman View Post
      The industry is moving to full free updates. Volvo needs to get with the times. The idea we can't have these updates except every 10k is ridiculous.
      They are free upon your vehicle service once a year at maximum. If you have a valid failure/warranty complaint, come in sooner and it is free if needed. If you want it just because you want it, come in and pay us. We dont work for free.

      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      What's unbelievable, since February 2018 there were 6 upgrades (for 16 months ) , I've never experienced it with previous cars.
      It is obvious that Volvo has problems with its software department as it constantly issues upgrades and software updates
      They are fine tuning things per customer complaints and recommendations. It has nothing to do with problems although some updates fix problems you would otherwise not have known existed but I dont have time to go into that.
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    25. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      You are 100% correct and pretty much the way every body on here should see it.

      They are fine tuning things per customer complaints and recommendations. It has nothing to do with problems although some updates fix problems you would otherwise not have known existed but I dont have time to go into that.
      That's why I'm waiting for the upgrade only 9 months

      Known issue with the all SPA models, "Reduced Engine Performance" on hard acceleration .

      Volvo knows about it and is working on a software patch/update for the same, more than a year .
      Seems, Volvo is still working on a software patch for the same. The problem was not resolved with the last March upgrade

      I did not have the opportunity to test this new last upgrade
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      Anyone else have this upgrade done? I'm curious if others are seeing increased speeds in their Sensus system as well.

    27. #25
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      That's why I'm waiting for the upgrade only 9 months

      Known issue with the all SPA models, "Reduced Engine Performance" on hard acceleration .

      Volvo knows about it and is working on a software patch/update for the same, more than a year .
      Seems, Volvo is still working on a software patch for the same. The problem was not resolved with the last March upgrade

      I did not have the opportunity to test this new last upgrade
      I've had/have three SPA's in my family without this ever happening. Also, we have not seen this in our shop at all..... ever. Not saying its not possible but my region hasn't seen it
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    28. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      That's why I'm waiting for the upgrade only 9 months

      Known issue with the all SPA models, "Reduced Engine Performance" on hard acceleration .

      Volvo knows about it and is working on a software patch/update for the same, more than a year .
      Seems, Volvo is still working on a software patch for the same. The problem was not resolved with the last March upgrade

      I did not have the opportunity to test this new last upgrade
      I've had/have three SPA's in my family without this ever happening. Also, we have not seen this in our shop at all..... ever. Not saying its not possible but my region hasn't seen it
      Same here.

    29. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      I've had/have three SPA's in my family without this ever happening. Also, we have not seen this in our shop at all..... ever. Not saying its not possible but my region hasn't seen it

      In normal driving does not happen, only when you suddenly and strong accelerate

      I'm not the only one on this forum with this problem

      Quote Originally Posted by Volvolic View Post
      To the OP. I have the same issue with my V90CC T6 Polestar. I have had this error pop up on me after repeated accelerations in both Dynamic and comfort mode. My dealer told me this is a known issue with the new SPA models, Volvo knows about it and is working on a software patch/update for the same. I have my 10k miles service scheduled this weekend. I'll see what the dealer updates me with.

      Of all the times I've had this message pop up on me (maybe 6-7 times till now), it has always disappeared after about 10 seconds and my car has been back to normal. Also, almost all the times I have had this error come up, I was doing 80/90+ MPH so it did not feel as dangerous as it did to you.

      In addition to talking with your dealer, also speak with Volvo on this matter and see if that helps. As of what I know, Volvo is still trying to fix this error. See if you can hear something different from them.
      Quote Originally Posted by kingluke View Post
      We just brought our 2018 T6 XC90 into the dealership for service today. The car started throwing the "Reduced Engine Performance" error after every hard acceleration. Once the error is thrown the car is shaky and won't drive pass 24 mph. The dealership thinks its a software issue. They've had one similar issue that ended with Volvo buying the car back. Has anybody else experienced this issue with their XC90?
      Quote Originally Posted by columbrian View Post
      Funny, I've had the same experience, although only once (thankfully). In my case I accelerated from a stop light, slowed down to avoid a car that was merging, and then accelerated again. From that point I could not drive the car more than about 18mph for a solid couple of minutes. I contacted my dealer who contacted Volvo and the response was basically crickets. The dealer was great, but says Volvo is playing dumb.
      Quote Originally Posted by Rockgt302 View Post
      Just brought my MY18 in for that today. Its happened about 8 or 9 times in the last 3 months. Tech doesn't know whats wrong and said they are waiting for Volvo tech to get back to them. Don't have a good feeling about this.
      Last edited by BigBang; 05-31-2019 at 04:30 AM.
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    30. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      You are 100% correct and pretty much the way every body on here should see it.



      They are free upon your vehicle service once a year at maximum. If you have a valid failure/warranty complaint, come in sooner and it is free if needed. If you want it just because you want it, come in and pay us. We dont work for free.



      They are fine tuning things per customer complaints and recommendations. It has nothing to do with problems although some updates fix problems you would otherwise not have known existed but I dont have time to go into that.
      The issue is that the "free update cadence" does not match Volvo's own internal "software update cadence".

      No one expects you to work for free... ;-) But when customers have to wait potentially a year to get new updates without paying, that's a problem. It's 2019. You don't pay Apple, Samsung, or Tesla for updates... why should I be paying Volvo?

      As cars become increasing dependent on software rather than hardware and especially as we start moving towards more autonomous driving systems, the importance of software will only increase.

      Volvo either needs to move to allowing FOTA or they need to pay their dealerships/techs to let customers update their cars "for free". Frankly, I'd be surprised if SPA2 doesn't include some FOTA capabilities, even if it's just for the IHU and related systems.

      A more concrete example is the multitude of tweaks Volvo has made to the ASDM module. I'm certain one of the reasons my PA2 system works so much better than most, is I'm running much more up-to-date software.
      In addition, from a debugging perspective, having your fleet of deployed assets (e.g. "cars") running a dozen different software versions, makes it WAYYYY harder to do proper root cause analysis for problems.

      Volvo also sneaked in a little update to the way they collect telemetry during the May '19 update.
      That's this: https://www.volvocars.com/uk/support...a8015121d31fd2

      I suspect they're starting to understand these issue themselves and hence evolving their approach to software management. They're also currently hiring in several roles for embedded systems developers.
      I know the automotive industry is always a bit loathe to change, but in a highly competitive market, you gotta evolve to stay relevant.
      Look at what Tesla is doing with their FOTA updates. Customers like waking up to new features in their cars, even if you have to "elect" to be part of the trial or "beta" roll out group. That's a value add many Tesla customers care greatly about.

      Point is, it's on Volvo, not the dealerships, to make these updates more accessible to customers.
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Not sure what "special modes" you are talking about... maybe you should teach a volvo class.

      The upgrade is no less or more reliable than DICE. In fact, I would say LESS reliable due to the random failures we get on SPA vehicles which never occurred with DICE on older vehicles.
      Hehehehe... funny you should say that.

      I just got back from a work trip to the vendor that provides the underlying update mechanism for many of the German automotive manufacturers.

      And I was in fact, "teaching a class" around best practices for software and firmware management for embedded systems. ;-)

      Volvo actually isn't one of their customers, at least I don't believe so... but the same underlying concepts are valid.

      Anytime you'd like to get Volvo corporate to hire my company... we're available!
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    32. #30
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by shammyh View Post
      The issue is that the "free update cadence" does not match Volvo's own internal "software update cadence".

      No one expects you to work for free... ;-) But when customers have to wait potentially a year to get new updates without paying, that's a problem. It's 2019. You don't pay Apple, Samsung, or Tesla for updates... why should I be paying Volvo?

      As cars become increasing dependent on software rather than hardware and especially as we start moving towards more autonomous driving systems, the importance of software will only increase.

      Volvo either needs to move to allowing FOTA or they need to pay their dealerships/techs to let customers update their cars "for free". Frankly, I'd be surprised if SPA2 doesn't include some FOTA capabilities, even if it's just for the IHU and related systems.

      A more concrete example is the multitude of tweaks Volvo has made to the ASDM module. I'm certain one of the reasons my PA2 system works so much better than most, is I'm running much more up-to-date software.
      In addition, from a debugging perspective, having your fleet of deployed assets (e.g. "cars") running a dozen different software versions, makes it WAYYYY harder to do proper root cause analysis for problems.

      Volvo also sneaked in a little update to the way they collect telemetry during the May '19 update.
      That's this: https://www.volvocars.com/uk/support...a8015121d31fd2

      I suspect they're starting to understand these issue themselves and hence evolving their approach to software management. They're also currently hiring in several roles for embedded systems developers.
      I know the automotive industry is always a bit loathe to change, but in a highly competitive market, you gotta evolve to stay relevant.
      Look at what Tesla is doing with their FOTA updates. Customers like waking up to new features in their cars, even if you have to "elect" to be part of the trial or "beta" roll out group. That's a value add many Tesla customers care greatly about.

      Point is, it's on Volvo, not the dealerships, to make these updates more accessible to customers.
      OTA will NEVER happen due to the failure rates of software for no apparent reason and the repercussions of such failure.

      I dont think you guys understand that when a software fails, the car is dead. It is black. NOTHING works. It is virtually a rock. This is why OTA wont happen and why customers shouldnt really attempt it unless they understand that if it does fail mid-download, you're on the hook for potentially thousands of dollars.
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    33. #31
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      In normal driving does not happen, only when you suddenly and strong accelerate

      I'm not the only one on this forum with this problem
      I drive the literal sh*t out of my cars. There is no middle ground. I am either idle of 100% throttle in my cars. Never seen this failure.
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    34. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      I drive the literal sh*t out of my cars. There is no middle ground. I am either idle of 100% throttle in my cars. Never seen this failure.
      If you did not see it, that does not mean that the problem does not exist
      Everyone who had this problem, technicians in Volvo service said that it was a known problem on the SPA platform

      As I wrote before, I'm not the only one, it's a problem with more people from this forum, not to mention Europe or RoW

      Three different technicians at the Volvo service said that this is a known problem and that Volvo is testing new software on this problem, but apparently they are not capable of making software without this fault
      Last edited by BigBang; 05-31-2019 at 09:51 AM.
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    35. #33
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      If you did not see it, that does not mean that the problem does not exist
      Everyone who had this problem, technicians in Volvo service said that it was a known problem on the SPA platform

      As I wrote before, I'm not the only one, it's a problem with more people from this forum, not to mention Europe or RoW

      Three different technicians at the Volvo service said that this is a known problem and that Volvo is testing new software on this problem, but apparently they are not capable of making software without this fault
      Every market is different. Cali and New York techs see entirely different failures. We do not see them in our market.
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      DO NOT GO INTO THE CAR BUSINESS.

    36. #34
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Aug 2016
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      979
      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      OTA will NEVER happen due to the failure rates of software for no apparent reason and the repercussions of such failure.
      Well Tesla has no such problem, nor does Apple, Samsung, etc.... By the way, Polestar 2 indicates there will be over the air updates coming next year. Maybe Volvo will follow suit.
      Last edited by xgman; 05-31-2019 at 12:58 PM.
      2020 xc60 "Polestar Engineered", crystal white.
      2019 xc40 T5-R Bursting Blue Premium & Advanced Packs.

    37. #35
      Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by xgman View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      OTA will NEVER happen due to the failure rates of software for no apparent reason and the repercussions of such failure.
      Well Tesla has no such problem, nor does Apple, Samsung, etc.... By the way, Polestar 2 indicates there will be over the air updates coming next year. Maybe Volvo will follow suit.
      Your iPhone is not the same as the network of modules in a SPA car.

      Eventually Volvo may offer OTA updates. But not retroactive to current vehicles.

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