Ravenol T-IV (JWS 3309) Full Synthetic ATF Review
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    1. #1
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      Ravenol T-IV (JWS 3309) (semi) Synthetic ATF Review

      Hello All,

      I bit the bullet as the guinea pig and wanted to give some feedback on the Ravenol full synthetic T-IV transmission fluid. I have only completed 1,200 miles on the new fluid. I currently have 138k miles on my XC90 and previously did two fluid changes using Mobil 3309 since ~88k miles; an average 25k miles the past two changes. When switching to Ravenol in this 3rd fluid change, the 2nd set of Mobil JWS 3309 fluid still looked good with close to 30k miles. I do a lot of highway driving across the country and probably could have gone another 5-10k miles.

      When pouring the Ravenol, I noticed the synthetic has a lower viscosity when cold. I had some fresh Mobil 3309 I kept for leveling the fluid in the past and did a direct comparison. One for the Ravenol for having better cold flow.

      The shifting was good before, but the shifting has improved! The shifts are smoother yet crisper, feels like a new transmission. Overall, the transmission is more consistent when just starting to drive to when it is 90F+ outside stuck in traffic. Torque converter lock-up is better too. My initial personal opinion is it's a better fluid than the Mobil, but it should be.

      The take away
      The price seems high, but I probably will get more consistency in driving through varying temperatures and through the life of the fluid as well as I (hope) to get more life out of the transmission. The fluid may last twice as long, but I am guessing I can get 50% more out of the fluid instead of additional 100% because I would want to change it early due to friction disc material floating around. As I did almost 30k miles in the last 12 months, the extra life is better for me.

      One thing to consider is the shear rating and how mineral oil shears down its hot temp viscosity over time (gets thinner over time at operating temp). Tim Thurber did an oil analysis and his factory JWS 3309 (T-IV) fluid came back with the hot temp viscosity (@100C) closer to thinner WS transmission fluid spec for 2011+ XC90s. So, all of you with old transmission fluid are running a thinner fluid at operating temp. Synthetic fluid keeps that operating temp viscosity more consistent for the life of the fluid. People who have tested Dexron III (mineral) vs Dexron VI (synthetic) have seen better operating temp viscosity with Dex VI synthetic. These types of results shouldn't be a surprise because it is similar to conventional vs synthetic engine oil.

      The Verdict
      So, better cold flow, better hot temp viscosity, more consistency, better shifting, better torque converter lock-up, and longer life. Well worth the switch to Ravenol full synthetic. My only suggestion is to do an initial change from factory fluid with Mobil 3309 or similar (to remove as much floating friction material, carbon, etc.) and then on the 2nd fluid change go for Ravenol.

      I will update as I put on more miles.

      Links and references:
      https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NBP64PG...ing=UTF8&psc=1 Ravenol on Amazon (sold by Blauparts).
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl8AfrRcJY4 Interesting video of hot testing Ravenol full synthetic. Transmission fluid is already much thinner than engine oils. Amazing how well it performs and doesn't carbon up.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USRsFf5ZQys Flow/viscosity testing at 3 yrs of use. The old fluid flows better than new, but that could be for many reasons like it has more friction material (denser), less friction modifiers, etc. The video does show how well it still flows when cold.
      http://www.timthurber.com/volvo-xc90...-80sc-6-speed/ Tim Thurber's page on changing transmission fluid.

      csm_1212102-001_8f2eef5604.jpg
      Last edited by ChitownV; 07-09-2019 at 12:04 AM. Reason: corrected title to reflect semi-synthetic
      2008 XC90 3.2 AWD - 148k miles, Premium, Versatility 7 passenger, Climate, Convenience, retrofit Morimoto D2S HID bi-xenon, iPd swaybars & poly bushing inserts, Powerflex poly control arm bushings, Bilstein Touring Fr struts, Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus 255/55R18, Fr Infinity tweeters & speakers, hardwired cheap $17 Amazon Bluetooth to center console aux & pwr, CQuartz UK 3.0 ceramic coated, no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot

      About the XC90 3.2 - The good, the bad, and the ugly
      Strut Recommendations based on your specific XC90
      Upgrade front end rebuild with OEM, aftermarket, and original parts
      The better transmission JWS 3309/T-IV fluid for your 5 or 6 speed
      Why it's better to use synthetic oil instead of conventional

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    3. #2
      Member ggleavitt's Avatar
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      Maybe you could review Aisin T-04 on your next 25k fill, let us know how that fluid works after 1200 miles.

      **Cost per liter? I'm seeing 4 liters for $57 on Amazon and $13/l on Blauparts, nothing like the ballpark $6-7 per quart many of us are used to with the Mobil and Toyota products. Entirely possible you do this for a living so get some price breaks on fluid but for most of us, it's almost double the cost.

      Might consider price in the equation. I'm sure this fluid works great, just not sure it's double better than what many of us are using today.
      Last edited by ggleavitt; 07-08-2019 at 07:42 PM. Reason: Add ** item
      2005 XC90 B5254T2 019 199k
      2008 XC90 B8444S Sport 452 130k

    4. #3
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      The test video shows semi-synthetic not full synthetic and your pic does too. Which did you actually use, Semi or Full?
      Last edited by Thommykent; 07-08-2019 at 06:25 PM.

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    6. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by ggleavitt View Post
      Maybe you could review Aisin T-04 on your next 25k fill, let us know how that fluid works after 1200 miles.

      **Cost per liter? I'm seeing 4 liters for $57 on Amazon and $13/l on Blauparts, nothing like the ballpark $6-7 per quart many of us are used to with the Mobil and Toyota products. Entirely possible you do this for a living so get some price breaks on fluid but for most of us, it's almost double the cost.

      Might consider price in the equation. I'm sure this fluid works great, just not sure it's double better than what many of us are using today.
      It is double the price, but so is any PAO based synthetic motor oil. For the longevity of the transmission and smooth operation, it is definitely worth the price. This is coming from my experience with doing two 12 quart fills of Mobil 3309 ATF and with over 50k miles of using the Mobil fluid in all weather and conditions. Poor shifting, missed torque converter lock-up, and cold/hot temps causing hard shifts can still happen with Mobil. It is reduced a lot with Ravenol. If this wasn't worth the price, I wouldn't praise it. I was looking for issues so I won't pay the price again, but after driving with it, I really think this will help give a longer and smoother life for the transmission, especially for the 3.2 which makes a lot of downshifts. Since fluid is the only thing we can do (maintenance wise) to extend transmission life and operation, I think the investment was well worth it.

      I don't do this for a living, but right now on the Blauparts website, there is a 4th of July sale for 15% off using code FIREWORKS. https://www.blauparts.com/shop-parts...0-b139cbff238a I like to wait for sales then stockpile scheduled maintenance, lol.

      I believe some others on the forum have already tried Aisin's own fluid. I wanted something not mineral based so the trial of Ravenol commenced.

      Quote Originally Posted by Thommykent View Post
      The test video shows semi-synthetic not full synthetic and your pic does too. Which did you actually use, Semi or Full?
      You are right about the pic. Shoot, I already threw away the bottles so I can't check there.

      The description shows this,

      Technical Characteristics and Features:
      -Fully engineered synthetic (PAO) for Aisin Automatic transmissions
      -Excellent lubricating ability and transmission function even at low temperature winter climates
      -Very low pour point, crucial for the propeller operation of Aisin transmissions in low temperatures winter climates
      -High stable viscosity index for excellent transmission performance in all conditions
      -High thermal stability even when the transmission is subjected to extreme conditions
      -Excellent anti-friction characteristics lowering transmission operating temperatures, extending transmission life
      -Highest quality PAO and additive package supply protection against wear in harsh conditions
      -Excellent oxidation stability, anti-corrosion ability, keeping the transmission internally clean for extended change intervals.
      -Excellent anti-foaming characteristics prevents slippage and provides efficient power transfer
      -Corrosion inhibitors allow for the fluids excellent compatibility with non-ferrous metal alloys found specifically in Aisin transmissions
      Last edited by ChitownV; 07-08-2019 at 08:33 PM. Reason: added "/" and "12 quart"
      2008 XC90 3.2 AWD - 148k miles, Premium, Versatility 7 passenger, Climate, Convenience, retrofit Morimoto D2S HID bi-xenon, iPd swaybars & poly bushing inserts, Powerflex poly control arm bushings, Bilstein Touring Fr struts, Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus 255/55R18, Fr Infinity tweeters & speakers, hardwired cheap $17 Amazon Bluetooth to center console aux & pwr, CQuartz UK 3.0 ceramic coated, no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot

      About the XC90 3.2 - The good, the bad, and the ugly
      Strut Recommendations based on your specific XC90
      Upgrade front end rebuild with OEM, aftermarket, and original parts
      The better transmission JWS 3309/T-IV fluid for your 5 or 6 speed
      Why it's better to use synthetic oil instead of conventional

    7. #5
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      I almost forgot to mention another benefit for 3.2 owners who experience the slight vibration on idle when in drive and stopped. The vibration is reduced by 50% (according to my subjective observation). It is still present, but passengers might not notice now. That alone is worth the extra money to me.

      Again, for an additional $60-70 for the next 50k miles or more, I believe this will more than pay for itself. I am trying to reach 200k miles at the very least. Having better transmission fluid will definitely help meet the 200k milestone and make the drive more enjoyable every day.
      2008 XC90 3.2 AWD - 148k miles, Premium, Versatility 7 passenger, Climate, Convenience, retrofit Morimoto D2S HID bi-xenon, iPd swaybars & poly bushing inserts, Powerflex poly control arm bushings, Bilstein Touring Fr struts, Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus 255/55R18, Fr Infinity tweeters & speakers, hardwired cheap $17 Amazon Bluetooth to center console aux & pwr, CQuartz UK 3.0 ceramic coated, no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot

      About the XC90 3.2 - The good, the bad, and the ugly
      Strut Recommendations based on your specific XC90
      Upgrade front end rebuild with OEM, aftermarket, and original parts
      The better transmission JWS 3309/T-IV fluid for your 5 or 6 speed
      Why it's better to use synthetic oil instead of conventional

    8. #6
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      [QUOTE=ChitownV;7358481



      You are right about the pic. Shoot, I already threw away the bottles so I can't check there.
      [/QUOTE]

      If the bottles were silver it`s Semi-Sytnthetic if gold Full Synthetic

    9. #7
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      Thanks. Makes sense with Ravenol's bottle color system. Mine was Silver so it is semi-synthetic made with PAO synthetic base. I tried to correct the thread title, but cannot. It is made in Germany so not sure what their laws are regarding marketing for synthetics.

      Regardless, the fluid is still a much better fluid than the Mobil 3309 in my back to back comparison. I hope my review can help people in the future make their own decisions since there wasn't any real-world feedback on Ravenol products for the XC90. I would still recommend this fluid over Mobil 3309 any day and twice on Sundays.
      2008 XC90 3.2 AWD - 148k miles, Premium, Versatility 7 passenger, Climate, Convenience, retrofit Morimoto D2S HID bi-xenon, iPd swaybars & poly bushing inserts, Powerflex poly control arm bushings, Bilstein Touring Fr struts, Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus 255/55R18, Fr Infinity tweeters & speakers, hardwired cheap $17 Amazon Bluetooth to center console aux & pwr, CQuartz UK 3.0 ceramic coated, no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot

      About the XC90 3.2 - The good, the bad, and the ugly
      Strut Recommendations based on your specific XC90
      Upgrade front end rebuild with OEM, aftermarket, and original parts
      The better transmission JWS 3309/T-IV fluid for your 5 or 6 speed
      Why it's better to use synthetic oil instead of conventional

    10. #8
      Member ggleavitt's Avatar
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      So fluid is twice as expensive but it's twice as good.

      Got it, thanks for clearing this up.
      2005 XC90 B5254T2 019 199k
      2008 XC90 B8444S Sport 452 130k

    11. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by ggleavitt View Post
      So fluid is twice as expensive but it's twice as good.

      Got it, thanks for clearing this up.
      Haha, yes! Thanks for summarizing my lengthy explanation. Seriously though, I can't even feel many of these shifts now in normal driving.
      2008 XC90 3.2 AWD - 148k miles, Premium, Versatility 7 passenger, Climate, Convenience, retrofit Morimoto D2S HID bi-xenon, iPd swaybars & poly bushing inserts, Powerflex poly control arm bushings, Bilstein Touring Fr struts, Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus 255/55R18, Fr Infinity tweeters & speakers, hardwired cheap $17 Amazon Bluetooth to center console aux & pwr, CQuartz UK 3.0 ceramic coated, no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot

      About the XC90 3.2 - The good, the bad, and the ugly
      Strut Recommendations based on your specific XC90
      Upgrade front end rebuild with OEM, aftermarket, and original parts
      The better transmission JWS 3309/T-IV fluid for your 5 or 6 speed
      Why it's better to use synthetic oil instead of conventional

    12. #10
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      Thanks for this!

      I'll start with Ravenol once I get through my Toyota T-IV supply. I'm just doing drain and fills every few weeks until the fluid is cherry again.

      As for cost, these cars aren't exactly cheap to run. It doesn't make sense *not* to use the best fluids that you can. Otherwise, the money spent on other parts/fluids is all for naught.

      The cost difference isn't that big in the end, especially if you just do a transmission drain-and-fill at oil change time. Three liters out, three liters in. Just an extra $20-30 to run Ravenol every 5000-7500 miles. Much less than I spend on coffee in that interval.

      -Ryan

      -Ryan
      Too many cars...
      1987 Volvo 245
      1989 Volvo 245
      1991 Volvo 745 Dog Waggin' 2.0
      1995 Volvo 945 Turbo
      2011 Volvo XC90 3.2 AWD
      2013 Volvo XC60 3.2 AWD (Wife-mobile)

    13. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by RyanR View Post
      Thanks for this!

      The cost difference isn't that big in the end, especially if you just do a transmission drain-and-fill at oil change time. Three liters out, three liters in. Just an extra $20-30 to run Ravenol every 5000-7500 miles. Much less than I spend on coffee in that interval.

      -Ryan

      -Ryan
      Cost for coffee, very true. When you do the change, judge it after at least 1k miles. It's a good time interval for the new fluid/friction modifiers to soak well into the clutches and to get enough cycles/data for the adaptations.
      2008 XC90 3.2 AWD - 148k miles, Premium, Versatility 7 passenger, Climate, Convenience, retrofit Morimoto D2S HID bi-xenon, iPd swaybars & poly bushing inserts, Powerflex poly control arm bushings, Bilstein Touring Fr struts, Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus 255/55R18, Fr Infinity tweeters & speakers, hardwired cheap $17 Amazon Bluetooth to center console aux & pwr, CQuartz UK 3.0 ceramic coated, no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot

      About the XC90 3.2 - The good, the bad, and the ugly
      Strut Recommendations based on your specific XC90
      Upgrade front end rebuild with OEM, aftermarket, and original parts
      The better transmission JWS 3309/T-IV fluid for your 5 or 6 speed
      Why it's better to use synthetic oil instead of conventional

    14. #12
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      You can do a complete change in one sitting at the upper rad cooler line using a clear vinyl tube and 5 gallon bucket from your favorite HW store. I did this on my first S60R and on my current XC90 V8. I used Amsoil ATF, but I'm not a fanboy for any one brand, any good compatible PAO will do.

      I'm only adding this since there has been debate of whether Amsoil actually compatible, between the two cars I have about 80k trouble free miles on amsoil. 40k after change on each. S60R long sold, but still have the XC90, will do another complete change when the odo hits 100k (in about 10k).
      2007 XC90 V8 - 2005 V70R M66
      2015 F150 Supercrew 2WD 3.5L

    15. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by 377Z View Post
      You can do a complete change in one sitting at the upper rad cooler line using a clear vinyl tube and 5 gallon bucket...
      Can you elaborate on that? The problem, if there is one, is that not all the fluid goes through the cooler; some of it bypasses the cooler and drains directly back to the pan from various bearings, etc. Without a fluid flow diagram it is difficult to say how much will be changes and how much remains.
      John C
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      2011 XC90 3.2 173,000 miles and counting...

    16. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by 377Z View Post
      You can do a complete change in one sitting at the upper rad cooler line using a clear vinyl tube and 5 gallon bucket from your favorite HW store. I did this on my first S60R and on my current XC90 V8. I used Amsoil ATF, but I'm not a fanboy for any one brand, any good compatible PAO will do.

      I'm only adding this since there has been debate of whether Amsoil actually compatible, between the two cars I have about 80k trouble free miles on amsoil. 40k after change on each. S60R long sold, but still have the XC90, will do another complete change when the odo hits 100k (in about 10k).
      I am curious about this method as well. I feel like someone else had mentioned it to me in passing.
      2009 XC90 3.2 AWD l Oyster Grey / Bi-Xenon / Dynaudio / BLIS / VNS / RSE / THULE Aeroblade

    17. #15
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      Here are some posts/pics from when I did the S60R:

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...=1#post2050033

      You basically get like 6' of the 1/2" or 5/8" OD clear vinyl tubing (one fits snug in the cooler return orings, don't recall which right now. jam it in all the way, run the other end into a 5 gallon bucket). I 'graduated' my bucket in two quart intervals with a sharpie on the outside of it using water.

      Then you turn on the car and shut off when it fills up to the next two quart line. Put two fresh quarts in the fill plug. Go back and run to the next fill line, shut off, put two new quarts in, etc. Repeat until it runs clean red, took me about 13-15qts.

      This is as complete a change as you can do in the car. No flow diagram needed, All of the flow goes through the cooler. ATF is picked up at the pan by the pump, through the cooler, then off to all the bearings, clutch packs, servos, valvebody, etc. but it all collects at the pan. During the runs you can cycle the shifter between R and D to help circulate some of the circuits in the valve body as well, though that is a very small percentage of fluid in there.

      Best part is you don't get nearly as dirty as if you drop the pan or drain from the bottom, and there is no reason to drop the pan since IIRC Alison don't use replaceable filters (just a screen).

      GL
      2007 XC90 V8 - 2005 V70R M66
      2015 F150 Supercrew 2WD 3.5L

    18. #16
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      Intercepting the cooling lines is definitely the way to go if you're doing a full flush. Most effective visually if you're changing very old fluid. Cheaper, too.... the TF-80SC drain plug crush washers and O-rings are spendy little buggers.

      That said, I just do 3qt drain-n-fills every few weeks. Kinda fun.

      -Ryan
      Too many cars...
      1987 Volvo 245
      1989 Volvo 245
      1991 Volvo 745 Dog Waggin' 2.0
      1995 Volvo 945 Turbo
      2011 Volvo XC90 3.2 AWD
      2013 Volvo XC60 3.2 AWD (Wife-mobile)

    19. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by 377Z View Post
      All of the flow goes through the cooler.
      OK, but this is not true of every automatic transmission.

      ATF is picked up at the pan by the pump, through the cooler, then off to all the bearings, clutch packs, servos, valvebody, etc.
      So, doesn't that mean your new fluid (in the pan) will go straight to the bucket and the old fluid will stay up in the torque converter? I guess I still don't get it...
      Last edited by John C; 09-17-2019 at 12:18 PM.
      John C
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      2011 XC90 3.2 173,000 miles and counting...

    20. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDancer View Post
      I am curious about this method as well. I feel like someone else had mentioned it to me in passing.
      I think I mentioned this when we read your codes. You can use a very small funnel to add the fluid to the cooler return line that is removed for the tube and pour the new transmission fluid slowly into the line. Others have been doing this already so I cannot take credit.

      The cooler line method (with tube) has been discussed many many times here, such as here: https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...=1#post7334007. When I filled with Ravenol this time, I did the fill new fluid through the cooler line to try it out versus opening the filler plug. It worked just as well, just a little slower as you have to use a small funnel. I recommend this method if you risk stripping the fill plug or want a simpler way to change the fluid without getting dirty. I like to use empty washer fluid bottles marked at the 2,3, and 4 qt levels because it is completely contained and you don't risk spilling a bucket. Using the funnel in the cooler return line makes it a very clean job.
      2008 XC90 3.2 AWD - 148k miles, Premium, Versatility 7 passenger, Climate, Convenience, retrofit Morimoto D2S HID bi-xenon, iPd swaybars & poly bushing inserts, Powerflex poly control arm bushings, Bilstein Touring Fr struts, Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus 255/55R18, Fr Infinity tweeters & speakers, hardwired cheap $17 Amazon Bluetooth to center console aux & pwr, CQuartz UK 3.0 ceramic coated, no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot

      About the XC90 3.2 - The good, the bad, and the ugly
      Strut Recommendations based on your specific XC90
      Upgrade front end rebuild with OEM, aftermarket, and original parts
      The better transmission JWS 3309/T-IV fluid for your 5 or 6 speed
      Why it's better to use synthetic oil instead of conventional

    21. #19
      Quote Originally Posted by John C View Post
      OK, but this is not true of every automatic transmission.



      So, doesn't that mean your new fluid (in the pan) will go straight to the bucket and the old fluid will stay up in the torque converter? I guess I still don't get it...
      The top outlet of the radiator is the last stop before being dumped back into the pan. Using clear hose you can see the color difference when the flush is complete. Most do 12qts, I would recommend 14. If the car was equipped with a cooler the path is transmission to cooler to radiator lower inlet out the top back to the transmission pan. You can simply replace the old oil pumped out by just dumping down the return line removed from the top of the radiator.
      2010 XC90 V8 - 113k miles
      2012 S60 T5 - 160k miles
      2009 C30 - Totaled. It ate a minivan at 35mph.
      2006 S40 - at 217k it was tired and needed too much.
      2008 XC90 3.2 - traded with 220,780 miles

    22. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by ChitownV View Post
      I think I mentioned this when we read your codes. You can use a very small funnel to add the fluid to the cooler return line that is removed for the tube and pour the new transmission fluid slowly into the line. Others have been doing this already so I cannot take credit.
      Yes, it was. Thanks for the memory refresh.
      2009 XC90 3.2 AWD l Oyster Grey / Bi-Xenon / Dynaudio / BLIS / VNS / RSE / THULE Aeroblade

    23. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by John C View Post
      OK, but this is not true of every automatic transmission.


      So, doesn't that mean your new fluid (in the pan) will go straight to the bucket and the old fluid will stay up in the torque converter? I guess I still don't get it...
      Good to point out. This is wrong. The fluid, after it goes through the valve body and diverted to other channels gets hot, which it then goes to the cooler. Then the cooled fluid returns to the pan, where on other transmissions gets filtered. The Aisin TF-80SC has the filter screen before fluid goes through the valve body again. Since the new fluid will get distributed when doing the fluid change, it is important to go through reverse & manually through 1-3 (does not go higher when stopped pressing the brake) while the new fluid in the pan is being pumped in and the old fluid is being pumped out. Some mechanics who are doing regular transmission fluid changes by connecting the cooler lines to a fluid extractor might say they need to also clean/blast the cooler out (either radiator or separate cooler). This is because the flow pushes dirty fluid into the cooler, not the filtered fluid coming from the direction of the pan.

      Another note, veering away from these transmissions, on others, like the newer ZF transmissions found in [majority of] cars today, there is a temp valve that bypasses the cooler until the fluid is at a certain temp (operates like the coolant thermostat). This helps get the fluid to operating temp when cold and improve mpg/emissions. So, filling to level after draining requires to fill when cold, then let it run to temp to open the cooler valve, then fill again.
      2008 XC90 3.2 AWD - 148k miles, Premium, Versatility 7 passenger, Climate, Convenience, retrofit Morimoto D2S HID bi-xenon, iPd swaybars & poly bushing inserts, Powerflex poly control arm bushings, Bilstein Touring Fr struts, Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus 255/55R18, Fr Infinity tweeters & speakers, hardwired cheap $17 Amazon Bluetooth to center console aux & pwr, CQuartz UK 3.0 ceramic coated, no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot

      About the XC90 3.2 - The good, the bad, and the ugly
      Strut Recommendations based on your specific XC90
      Upgrade front end rebuild with OEM, aftermarket, and original parts
      The better transmission JWS 3309/T-IV fluid for your 5 or 6 speed
      Why it's better to use synthetic oil instead of conventional

    24. #22
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      OK, that all makes a lot more sense. One poster said the flow was pan to pump to cooler. If this were the case, none of this would work. Most transmissions, and some have stated, this transmission, pump from the pan through all the hydraulics and then to the cooler and back to the pan. This works pretty well, except fluid used for lubrication drains by gravity back to the pan without going the cooler route.
      John C
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      2011 XC90 3.2 173,000 miles and counting...

    25. #23
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      Yeah sorry I totally messed that up and even forgot to mention the converter, which is one of the key reasons to do the cooler line flush route as it gets most of that fluid. You are right, stuff lubing bearings/bushings wont make it through (nor some of the fluid circuitry) but its such a minor proportion and its going back into the pan (i.e. 'general population) where the pickup is and is likely to get refreshed via mixing/going through the cooler the following time its picked up. anyways mine started lightening after 10 qts, and I'd go 12-14 to be sure. I like the cooler line method because you can do effectively a complete change in one shot without lifting the car. But periodic drain/fill can work too, done enough times--do what works for you.
      2007 XC90 V8 - 2005 V70R M66
      2015 F150 Supercrew 2WD 3.5L

    26. #24
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      I finally used up the last of my Toyota T-IV, and have been swapping in the Ravenol T-IV. We'll see how it goes. I'm a big fan of synthetic fluids, so I suspect it'll be good. I like being able to get a 4L jug.

      Thanks for the heads up!

      -Ryan
      Too many cars...
      1987 Volvo 245
      1989 Volvo 245
      1991 Volvo 745 Dog Waggin' 2.0
      1995 Volvo 945 Turbo
      2011 Volvo XC90 3.2 AWD
      2013 Volvo XC60 3.2 AWD (Wife-mobile)

    27. #25
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      @ChitownV, thanks a lot for your in-depth review. Getting ready to flush the trans for the first time on our 09 XC70 T6 and have spent many hours researching the process, fluids, etc. Interesting to hear your observations compared to Mobil 3309, which is what I will likely be starting with. I was also considering Idemitsu because I have used some of their products (synthetic engine, manual transmission and differential oils) in the past in my shop and they were fantastic. The spec sheets are very similar.

      Quote Originally Posted by RyanR View Post
      I finally used up the last of my Toyota T-IV, and have been swapping in the Ravenol T-IV. We'll see how it goes. I'm a big fan of synthetic fluids, so I suspect it'll be good. I like being able to get a 4L jug.
      @RyanR, also very interested to hear your thoughts if you feel you've had sufficient time to evaluate the Ravenol. After doing my homework on the subject, I know you've been through a few different brands LOL, and I too am a huge fan of everything synthetic when it comes to lubrication. This particular application has me a bit leery since the trans was designed with a petroleum oil in mind.

      I'm new to the Volvo scene, still gotta get it on the lift and figure out if the car has a feed to the radiator or if I'll be doing the dump and pump Regardless, the transmission is something I will not skimp on; your respective contributions are greatly appreciated.

    28. #26
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      No problem. I have close to over 15k miles on my Ravenol and still like it. Just remember, any mechanical damage or wear that has already been done will not suddenly disappear with (semi)synthetic fluids.

      The things I like most with the Ravenol are: it offers better cold flow (better shifts in freezing temps), vibration on idle while in gear has lessened, over the course of 15k miles the fluid viscosity has been more consistent than when using non-synthetic (can tell by shift feel), and sound of mind that the viscosity & protection will not break down as quickly.

      And remember, I still recommend doing at least one fluid changeover first with a non-synthetic like Mobil 3309 (or Idemitsu, Toyota T-IV) to get a lot of the old dirt/carbon/floating media out and drive for 10-15k miles on that fluid. Then on the second or third change, use the semi-synthetic Ravenol.
      2008 XC90 3.2 AWD - 148k miles, Premium, Versatility 7 passenger, Climate, Convenience, retrofit Morimoto D2S HID bi-xenon, iPd swaybars & poly bushing inserts, Powerflex poly control arm bushings, Bilstein Touring Fr struts, Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus 255/55R18, Fr Infinity tweeters & speakers, hardwired cheap $17 Amazon Bluetooth to center console aux & pwr, CQuartz UK 3.0 ceramic coated, no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot

      About the XC90 3.2 - The good, the bad, and the ugly
      Strut Recommendations based on your specific XC90
      Upgrade front end rebuild with OEM, aftermarket, and original parts
      The better transmission JWS 3309/T-IV fluid for your 5 or 6 speed
      Why it's better to use synthetic oil instead of conventional

    29. #27
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      My strategy has been to just do drain-n-fills. Flushes make more sense, but I wanted to ease into it. I got two graduated jugs (in mL), one to catch what comes out, one to add the exact amount of fresh fluid back in. You get almost exactly 3L with each drain. I've gotten pretty good at getting the fill plug out and back in with a magnet tool so that I don't need to remove the air box. Just thread a long funnel down there.

      So far, I have 12L of Toyota T-IV, and 3L of Ravenol "through" the system in the last 18 months. I'll do a drain and fill with Ravenol with every oil change from here on out. The trans definitely feels happier.... but most of that has to be just getting rid of 130K fluid that was in there prior.

      Remember, synthetics still are petroleum based. It's still a bunch of hydrocarbons.... but they've been disassembled and reassembled to be more uniform and predictable. Basically, there's just more control over what goes into the bottle.

      On subject, but slightly off, we replaced my wife's Fiat (rear ended by a semi-truck!) with a 2013 XC60 3.2L, so now I've got a TF-80SC with Type-WS to care for. I'll get Ravenol for that.

      Question: Has anyone found that the latest batch of O-rings for the T40 plug on the TF-80SC has been "off" somehow? I've been getting them from Tasca, and they seem a bit more "gummy" than before.

      Thanks!

      -Ryan
      Too many cars...
      1987 Volvo 245
      1989 Volvo 245
      1991 Volvo 745 Dog Waggin' 2.0
      1995 Volvo 945 Turbo
      2011 Volvo XC90 3.2 AWD
      2013 Volvo XC60 3.2 AWD (Wife-mobile)

    30. #28
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      Thanks guys. No major issues with the trans as of yet, although I believe I started to notice a bit of RPM flare/slip in 1-2 and 2-3 shifts, so want to jump on it early. Not sure what is in it, I believe the previous owner did one drain and fill and left it at that so...

      I bit the bullet and ordered the Idemitsu, just hit the door. The specs are very similar to Mobil/T-IV which is well documented here, so I figured another data point for Idemitsu wouldn't hurt anything since the plan is to do a full swap with it and then work over to the Ravenol as suggested.

      I know the counter needs to be reset with VIDA, but I've read conflicting information about running the adaptation procedure. Thoughts?
      09 XC70 T6 "Maximoose"
      Many, many Miatas

    31. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by RyanR View Post
      On subject, but slightly off, we replaced my wife's Fiat (rear ended by a semi-truck!) with a 2013 XC60 3.2L, so now I've got a TF-80SC with Type-WS to care for. I'll get Ravenol for that.

      Question: Has anyone found that the latest batch of O-rings for the T40 plug on the TF-80SC has been "off" somehow? I've been getting them from Tasca, and they seem a bit more "gummy" than before.

      Thanks!

      -Ryan
      Good & safe replacement! Now I will keep a lookout for the new O-rings, but that might be a little while since Ravenol is in the trans now.


      Quote Originally Posted by Rrrracer View Post
      Thanks guys. No major issues with the trans as of yet, although I believe I started to notice a bit of RPM flare/slip in 1-2 and 2-3 shifts, so want to jump on it early. Not sure what is in it, I believe the previous owner did one drain and fill and left it at that so...

      I bit the bullet and ordered the Idemitsu, just hit the door. The specs are very similar to Mobil/T-IV which is well documented here, so I figured another data point for Idemitsu wouldn't hurt anything since the plan is to do a full swap with it and then work over to the Ravenol as suggested.

      I know the counter needs to be reset with VIDA, but I've read conflicting information about running the adaptation procedure. Thoughts?
      Still a good fluid choice. Yes to counter. BIG NO to resetting adaptations. Adaptations are reserved for mechanical fixes or changes, not fluid.
      2008 XC90 3.2 AWD - 148k miles, Premium, Versatility 7 passenger, Climate, Convenience, retrofit Morimoto D2S HID bi-xenon, iPd swaybars & poly bushing inserts, Powerflex poly control arm bushings, Bilstein Touring Fr struts, Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus 255/55R18, Fr Infinity tweeters & speakers, hardwired cheap $17 Amazon Bluetooth to center console aux & pwr, CQuartz UK 3.0 ceramic coated, no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot

      About the XC90 3.2 - The good, the bad, and the ugly
      Strut Recommendations based on your specific XC90
      Upgrade front end rebuild with OEM, aftermarket, and original parts
      The better transmission JWS 3309/T-IV fluid for your 5 or 6 speed
      Why it's better to use synthetic oil instead of conventional

    32. #30
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      Roger that. Thanks buddy, headed out to the shop to tackle it now.
      09 XC70 T6 "Maximoose"
      Many, many Miatas

    33. #31
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      Swap went well; easy stuff, more time consuming than anything. The fluid actually was in pretty decent shape and no burnt odor, but a definite improvement in color working thru the stages.

      Driveability seems to be about the same. I really didn't have anything to complain about before, no hard shifts or anything except what seems to be flare or slippage in 2nd/3rd gear. It's still acting the same way; most noticeable in 3rd, it seems to hang/slip for a little while before it really locks down into gear and gets about its business. [Edit: I should mention that we're talking about part throttle application here; call it 50-75% throttle... no issues at all under WOT.] Not sure if this is normal operation for this transmission or not. I come from decades of driving manual transmission cars, this is our first automatic in a long time and our first Volvo ever so... could just be me.

      If I had to pick one thing about this car that bugs me the most, it is the operation of the transmission. Definitely "luxury" oriented, I wish it were more crisp and responsive in shifting. No problem whatsoever at higher RPMs, and when I move it over to manual mode it seems a lot more responsive. On 1-2 shifts, there is a notable delay between the time I push the lever and it actually going into 2nd. I was going to put a Hilton tune on it because I wanted it to be a somewhat beastly Euro wagon, but the way it acts now has me thinking I will probably just leave it as is... not looking for any trouble LOL.

      Apologies for the derail! I'll ride the Idemitsu out for 15K miles and then switch over to the Ravenol and report back.
      Last edited by Rrrracer; 03-02-2020 at 07:59 PM.
      09 XC70 T6 "Maximoose"
      Many, many Miatas

    34. #32
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      The Flares are indicative of needing a Valve Body replacement. Those flares are not normal. Soon enough you`il get bang shifts under full throttle. It doesn`t take but a few of those before the trans will be done with. https://www.ipdusa.com/techtips/1017...mission-issues

    35. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by Thommykent View Post
      The Flares are indicative of needing a Valve Body replacement. Those flares are not normal. Soon enough you`il get bang shifts under full throttle. It doesn`t take but a few of those before the trans will be done with. https://www.ipdusa.com/techtips/1017...mission-issues
      Yep sure sounds like it, but I have scoured this forum, other Volvo forums and the internet at-large; examples of P3 XC70s with valve body problems are absolutely scarce, mostly a handful of 3.2L cars. I'm not saying it's outside the realm of possibility, but nearly everything I have found is related to the '07 and earlier models. Our car only has 95K miles on it and has been well maintained to boot... so I'm not yet convinced.

      Tempted to do the adaptation, if only to see if it makes a difference. Someone talk me down LOL...
      Last edited by Rrrracer; 03-03-2020 at 05:58 AM.
      09 XC70 T6 "Maximoose"
      Many, many Miatas

    36. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rrrracer View Post
      Yep sure sounds like it, but I have scoured this forum, other Volvo forums and the internet at-large; examples of P3 XC70s with valve body problems are absolutely scarce, mostly a handful of 3.2L cars. I'm not saying it's outside the realm of possibility, but nearly everything I have found is related to the '07 and earlier models. Our car only has 95K miles on it and has been well maintained to boot... so I'm not yet convinced.

      Tempted to do the adaptation, if only to see if it makes a difference. Someone talk me down LOL...
      With your mileage, it appears to be more wear oriented than valve body issues associated with the 2007 transmissions. I used to have an audible buzz/flare from 2-3 in part throttle and that took about 1k+ miles to disappear. Wait for more mileage for the new fluid to clean/hold the existing dirt/floating media, besides, it takes time and mileage for the new fluid to completely soak into the clutches. Also, the computer will start learning and adjusting the shifts to the new fluid parameters.

      Please report back in 500-1,000 miles to let us know how it is going with the Idemitsu fluid.
      2008 XC90 3.2 AWD - 148k miles, Premium, Versatility 7 passenger, Climate, Convenience, retrofit Morimoto D2S HID bi-xenon, iPd swaybars & poly bushing inserts, Powerflex poly control arm bushings, Bilstein Touring Fr struts, Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus 255/55R18, Fr Infinity tweeters & speakers, hardwired cheap $17 Amazon Bluetooth to center console aux & pwr, CQuartz UK 3.0 ceramic coated, no oil consumption using Mobil 1 0W-40 even w/ my lead foot

      About the XC90 3.2 - The good, the bad, and the ugly
      Strut Recommendations based on your specific XC90
      Upgrade front end rebuild with OEM, aftermarket, and original parts
      The better transmission JWS 3309/T-IV fluid for your 5 or 6 speed
      Why it's better to use synthetic oil instead of conventional

    37. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rrrracer View Post
      Yep sure sounds like it, but I have scoured this forum, other Volvo forums and the internet at-large; examples of P3 XC70s with valve body problems are absolutely scarce, mostly a handful of 3.2L cars. I'm not saying it's outside the realm of possibility, but nearly everything I have found is related to the '07 and earlier models. Our car only has 95K miles on it and has been well maintained to boot... so I'm not yet convinced.

      Tempted to do the adaptation, if only to see if it makes a difference. Someone talk me down LOL...
      Hope it isn`t the Valve Body, time will tell. It`s not like everyone who owns a Volvo is on a forum. It`s driveable now and forever if it stays that way, but it`s not a "characteristic" of how these transmissions are. Mine was like yours, changed fluid, updating software changed nothing. Started to get occasional slam shifts and swapped out the Valve Body myself. It`s excellent now. Do not try going cheap with a rebuilt Valve Body if it comes to that.

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