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Ravenol T-IV (JWS 3309) Full Synthetic ATF Review

18K views 66 replies 11 participants last post by  ChitownV 
#1 · (Edited)
Ravenol T-IV (JWS 3309) Synthetic ATF Review
Update 4-4-22: Ravenol T-IV is indeed Full Synthetic regardless of bottle color. A pic is provided later in this thread.

Hello All,

I bit the bullet as the guinea pig and wanted to give some feedback on the Ravenol full synthetic T-IV transmission fluid. I have only completed 1,200 miles on the new fluid. I currently have 138k miles on my XC90 and previously did two fluid changes using Mobil 3309 since ~88k miles; an average 25k miles the past two changes. When switching to Ravenol in this 3rd fluid change, the 2nd set of Mobil JWS 3309 fluid still looked good with close to 30k miles. I do a lot of highway driving across the country and probably could have gone another 5-10k miles.

When pouring the Ravenol, I noticed the synthetic has a lower viscosity when cold. I had some fresh Mobil 3309 I kept for leveling the fluid in the past and did a direct comparison. One for the Ravenol for having better cold flow.

The shifting was good before, but the shifting has improved! The shifts are smoother yet crisper, feels like a new transmission. Overall, the transmission is more consistent when just starting to drive to when it is 90F+ outside stuck in traffic. Torque converter lock-up is better too. My initial personal opinion is it's a better fluid than the Mobil, but it should be.

The take away
The price seems high, but I probably will get more consistency in driving through varying temperatures and through the life of the fluid as well as I (hope) to get more life out of the transmission. The fluid may last twice as long, but I am guessing I can get 50% more out of the fluid instead of additional 100% because I would want to change it early due to friction disc material floating around. As I did almost 30k miles in the last 12 months, the extra life is better for me.

One thing to consider is the shear rating and how mineral oil shears down its hot temp viscosity over time (gets thinner over time at operating temp). Tim Thurber did an oil analysis and his factory JWS 3309 (T-IV) fluid came back with the hot temp viscosity (@100C) closer to thinner WS transmission fluid spec for 2011+ XC90s. So, all of you with old transmission fluid are running a thinner fluid at operating temp. Synthetic fluid keeps that operating temp viscosity more consistent for the life of the fluid. People who have tested Dexron III (mineral) vs Dexron VI (synthetic) have seen better operating temp viscosity with Dex VI synthetic. These types of results shouldn't be a surprise because it is similar to conventional vs synthetic engine oil.

The Verdict
So, better cold flow, better hot temp viscosity, more consistency, better shifting, better torque converter lock-up, and longer life. Well worth the switch to Ravenol full synthetic.:) My only suggestion is to do an initial change from factory fluid with Mobil 3309 or similar (to remove as much floating friction material, carbon, etc.) and then on the 2nd fluid change go for Ravenol.

I will update as I put on more miles.

Links and references:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NBP64PG/ref=twister_B016V2U43I?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 Ravenol on Amazon (sold by Blauparts).
Interesting video of hot testing Ravenol full synthetic. Transmission fluid is already much thinner than engine oils. Amazing how well it performs and doesn't carbon up.
Flow/viscosity testing at 3 yrs of use. The old fluid flows better than new, but that could be for many reasons like it has more friction material (denser), less friction modifiers, etc. The video does show how well it still flows when cold.
http://www.timthurber.com/volvo-xc90-3-2-transmission-flush-drainfill-tf-80sc-6-speed/ Tim Thurber's page on changing transmission fluid.

Water Product Liquid Distilled water Fluid
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Maybe you could review Aisin T-04 on your next 25k fill, let us know how that fluid works after 1200 miles.

**Cost per liter? I'm seeing 4 liters for $57 on Amazon and $13/l on Blauparts, nothing like the ballpark $6-7 per quart many of us are used to with the Mobil and Toyota products. Entirely possible you do this for a living so get some price breaks on fluid but for most of us, it's almost double the cost.

Might consider price in the equation. I'm sure this fluid works great, just not sure it's double better than what many of us are using today.
 
#4 · (Edited)
It is double the price, but so is any PAO based synthetic motor oil. For the longevity of the transmission and smooth operation, it is definitely worth the price. This is coming from my experience with doing two 12 quart fills of Mobil 3309 ATF and with over 50k miles of using the Mobil fluid in all weather and conditions. Poor shifting, missed torque converter lock-up, and cold/hot temps causing hard shifts can still happen with Mobil. It is reduced a lot with Ravenol. If this wasn't worth the price, I wouldn't praise it. I was looking for issues so I won't pay the price again, but after driving with it, I really think this will help give a longer and smoother life for the transmission, especially for the 3.2 which makes a lot of downshifts. Since fluid is the only thing we can do (maintenance wise) to extend transmission life and operation, I think the investment was well worth it.

I don't do this for a living, but right now on the Blauparts website, there is a 4th of July sale for 15% off using code FIREWORKS. https://www.blauparts.com/shop-part..._content=2f84f5c6-6f3d-499c-acd0-b139cbff238a I like to wait for sales then stockpile scheduled maintenance, lol.

I believe some others on the forum have already tried Aisin's own fluid. I wanted something not mineral based so the trial of Ravenol commenced.

The test video shows semi-synthetic not full synthetic and your pic does too. Which did you actually use, Semi or Full?
You are right about the pic. Shoot, I already threw away the bottles so I can't check there.

The description shows this,

Technical Characteristics and Features:
-Fully engineered synthetic (PAO) for Aisin Automatic transmissions
-Excellent lubricating ability and transmission function even at low temperature winter climates
-Very low pour point, crucial for the propeller operation of Aisin transmissions in low temperatures winter climates
-High stable viscosity index for excellent transmission performance in all conditions
-High thermal stability even when the transmission is subjected to extreme conditions
-Excellent anti-friction characteristics lowering transmission operating temperatures, extending transmission life
-Highest quality PAO and additive package supply protection against wear in harsh conditions
-Excellent oxidation stability, anti-corrosion ability, keeping the transmission internally clean for extended change intervals.
-Excellent anti-foaming characteristics prevents slippage and provides efficient power transfer
-Corrosion inhibitors allow for the fluids excellent compatibility with non-ferrous metal alloys found specifically in Aisin transmissions
 
#37 ·
I am updating this thread. The bottles say Synthetic for Ravenol's T-IV transmission fluid (not semi-synthetic). The color of the bottle doesn't matter. Please see the pic I took below.

 
#5 ·
I almost forgot to mention another benefit for 3.2 owners who experience the slight vibration on idle when in drive and stopped. The vibration is reduced by 50% (according to my subjective observation). It is still present, but passengers might not notice now. That alone is worth the extra money to me.

Again, for an additional $60-70 for the next 50k miles or more, I believe this will more than pay for itself. I am trying to reach 200k miles at the very least. Having better transmission fluid will definitely help meet the 200k milestone and make the drive more enjoyable every day.
 
#7 ·
Thanks. Makes sense with Ravenol's bottle color system. Mine was Silver so it is semi-synthetic made with PAO synthetic base. I tried to correct the thread title, but cannot. It is made in Germany so not sure what their laws are regarding marketing for synthetics.

Regardless, the fluid is still a much better fluid than the Mobil 3309 in my back to back comparison. I hope my review can help people in the future make their own decisions since there wasn't any real-world feedback on Ravenol products for the XC90. I would still recommend this fluid over Mobil 3309 any day and twice on Sundays.
 
#9 ·
So fluid is twice as expensive but it's twice as good.

Got it, thanks for clearing this up.
Haha, yes! Thanks for summarizing my lengthy explanation. Seriously though, I can't even feel many of these shifts now in normal driving.
 
#10 ·
Thanks for this!

I'll start with Ravenol once I get through my Toyota T-IV supply. I'm just doing drain and fills every few weeks until the fluid is cherry again.

As for cost, these cars aren't exactly cheap to run. It doesn't make sense *not* to use the best fluids that you can. Otherwise, the money spent on other parts/fluids is all for naught.

The cost difference isn't that big in the end, especially if you just do a transmission drain-and-fill at oil change time. Three liters out, three liters in. Just an extra $20-30 to run Ravenol every 5000-7500 miles. Much less than I spend on coffee in that interval. :)

-Ryan

-Ryan
 
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#11 ·
Thanks for this!

The cost difference isn't that big in the end, especially if you just do a transmission drain-and-fill at oil change time. Three liters out, three liters in. Just an extra $20-30 to run Ravenol every 5000-7500 miles. Much less than I spend on coffee in that interval. :)

-Ryan

-Ryan
Cost for coffee, very true. When you do the change, judge it after at least 1k miles. It's a good time interval for the new fluid/friction modifiers to soak well into the clutches and to get enough cycles/data for the adaptations.
 
#12 ·
You can do a complete change in one sitting at the upper rad cooler line using a clear vinyl tube and 5 gallon bucket from your favorite HW store. I did this on my first S60R and on my current XC90 V8. I used Amsoil ATF, but I'm not a fanboy for any one brand, any good compatible PAO will do.

I'm only adding this since there has been debate of whether Amsoil actually compatible, between the two cars I have about 80k trouble free miles on amsoil. 40k after change on each. S60R long sold, but still have the XC90, will do another complete change when the odo hits 100k (in about 10k).
 
#13 ·
You can do a complete change in one sitting at the upper rad cooler line using a clear vinyl tube and 5 gallon bucket...
Can you elaborate on that? The problem, if there is one, is that not all the fluid goes through the cooler; some of it bypasses the cooler and drains directly back to the pan from various bearings, etc. Without a fluid flow diagram it is difficult to say how much will be changes and how much remains.
 
#15 ·
Here are some posts/pics from when I did the S60R:

https://forums.swedespeed.com/showt...sh-Procedure&p=2050033&viewfull=1#post2050033

You basically get like 6' of the 1/2" or 5/8" OD clear vinyl tubing (one fits snug in the cooler return orings, don't recall which right now. jam it in all the way, run the other end into a 5 gallon bucket). I 'graduated' my bucket in two quart intervals with a sharpie on the outside of it using water.

Then you turn on the car and shut off when it fills up to the next two quart line. Put two fresh quarts in the fill plug. Go back and run to the next fill line, shut off, put two new quarts in, etc. Repeat until it runs clean red, took me about 13-15qts.

This is as complete a change as you can do in the car. No flow diagram needed, All of the flow goes through the cooler. ATF is picked up at the pan by the pump, through the cooler, then off to all the bearings, clutch packs, servos, valvebody, etc. but it all collects at the pan. During the runs you can cycle the shifter between R and D to help circulate some of the circuits in the valve body as well, though that is a very small percentage of fluid in there.

Best part is you don't get nearly as dirty as if you drop the pan or drain from the bottom, and there is no reason to drop the pan since IIRC Alison don't use replaceable filters (just a screen).

GL
 
#17 · (Edited)
All of the flow goes through the cooler.
OK, but this is not true of every automatic transmission.

ATF is picked up at the pan by the pump, through the cooler, then off to all the bearings, clutch packs, servos, valvebody, etc.
So, doesn't that mean your new fluid (in the pan) will go straight to the bucket and the old fluid will stay up in the torque converter? I guess I still don't get it...
 
#16 ·
Intercepting the cooling lines is definitely the way to go if you're doing a full flush. Most effective visually if you're changing very old fluid. Cheaper, too.... the TF-80SC drain plug crush washers and O-rings are spendy little buggers.

That said, I just do 3qt drain-n-fills every few weeks. Kinda fun.

-Ryan
 
#22 ·
OK, that all makes a lot more sense. One poster said the flow was pan to pump to cooler. If this were the case, none of this would work. Most transmissions, and some have stated, this transmission, pump from the pan through all the hydraulics and then to the cooler and back to the pan. This works pretty well, except fluid used for lubrication drains by gravity back to the pan without going the cooler route.
 
#23 ·
Yeah sorry I totally messed that up and even forgot to mention the converter, which is one of the key reasons to do the cooler line flush route as it gets most of that fluid. You are right, stuff lubing bearings/bushings wont make it through (nor some of the fluid circuitry) but its such a minor proportion and its going back into the pan (i.e. 'general population) where the pickup is and is likely to get refreshed via mixing/going through the cooler the following time its picked up. anyways mine started lightening after 10 qts, and I'd go 12-14 to be sure. I like the cooler line method because you can do effectively a complete change in one shot without lifting the car. But periodic drain/fill can work too, done enough times--do what works for you.
 
#24 ·
I finally used up the last of my Toyota T-IV, and have been swapping in the Ravenol T-IV. We'll see how it goes. I'm a big fan of synthetic fluids, so I suspect it'll be good. I like being able to get a 4L jug.

Thanks for the heads up!

-Ryan
 
#25 ·
@ChitownV, thanks a lot for your in-depth review. Getting ready to flush the trans for the first time on our 09 XC70 T6 and have spent many hours researching the process, fluids, etc. Interesting to hear your observations compared to Mobil 3309, which is what I will likely be starting with. I was also considering Idemitsu because I have used some of their products (synthetic engine, manual transmission and differential oils) in the past in my shop and they were fantastic. The spec sheets are very similar.

I finally used up the last of my Toyota T-IV, and have been swapping in the Ravenol T-IV. We'll see how it goes. I'm a big fan of synthetic fluids, so I suspect it'll be good. I like being able to get a 4L jug.
@RyanR, also very interested to hear your thoughts if you feel you've had sufficient time to evaluate the Ravenol. After doing my homework on the subject, I know you've been through a few different brands LOL, and I too am a huge fan of everything synthetic when it comes to lubrication. This particular application has me a bit leery since the trans was designed with a petroleum oil in mind.

I'm new to the Volvo scene, still gotta get it on the lift and figure out if the car has a feed to the radiator or if I'll be doing the dump and pump :D Regardless, the transmission is something I will not skimp on; your respective contributions are greatly appreciated.
 
#26 ·
No problem. I have close to over 15k miles on my Ravenol and still like it. Just remember, any mechanical damage or wear that has already been done will not suddenly disappear with (semi)synthetic fluids.

The things I like most with the Ravenol are: it offers better cold flow (better shifts in freezing temps), vibration on idle while in gear has lessened, over the course of 15k miles the fluid viscosity has been more consistent than when using non-synthetic (can tell by shift feel), and sound of mind that the viscosity & protection will not break down as quickly.

And remember, I still recommend doing at least one fluid changeover first with a non-synthetic like Mobil 3309 (or Idemitsu, Toyota T-IV) to get a lot of the old dirt/carbon/floating media out and drive for 10-15k miles on that fluid. Then on the second or third change, use the semi-synthetic Ravenol.
 
#27 ·
My strategy has been to just do drain-n-fills. Flushes make more sense, but I wanted to ease into it. I got two graduated jugs (in mL), one to catch what comes out, one to add the exact amount of fresh fluid back in. You get almost exactly 3L with each drain. I've gotten pretty good at getting the fill plug out and back in with a magnet tool so that I don't need to remove the air box. Just thread a long funnel down there. :)

So far, I have 12L of Toyota T-IV, and 3L of Ravenol "through" the system in the last 18 months. I'll do a drain and fill with Ravenol with every oil change from here on out. The trans definitely feels happier.... but most of that has to be just getting rid of 130K fluid that was in there prior.

Remember, synthetics still are petroleum based. It's still a bunch of hydrocarbons.... but they've been disassembled and reassembled to be more uniform and predictable. Basically, there's just more control over what goes into the bottle.

On subject, but slightly off, we replaced my wife's Fiat (rear ended by a semi-truck!) with a 2013 XC60 3.2L, so now I've got a TF-80SC with Type-WS to care for. I'll get Ravenol for that.

Question: Has anyone found that the latest batch of O-rings for the T40 plug on the TF-80SC has been "off" somehow? I've been getting them from Tasca, and they seem a bit more "gummy" than before.

Thanks!

-Ryan
 
#29 ·
On subject, but slightly off, we replaced my wife's Fiat (rear ended by a semi-truck!) with a 2013 XC60 3.2L, so now I've got a TF-80SC with Type-WS to care for. I'll get Ravenol for that.

Question: Has anyone found that the latest batch of O-rings for the T40 plug on the TF-80SC has been "off" somehow? I've been getting them from Tasca, and they seem a bit more "gummy" than before.

Thanks!

-Ryan
Good & safe replacement! Now I will keep a lookout for the new O-rings, but that might be a little while since Ravenol is in the trans now.

Thanks guys. No major issues with the trans as of yet, although I believe I started to notice a bit of RPM flare/slip in 1-2 and 2-3 shifts, so want to jump on it early. Not sure what is in it, I believe the previous owner did one drain and fill and left it at that so...

I bit the bullet and ordered the Idemitsu, just hit the door. The specs are very similar to Mobil/T-IV which is well documented here, so I figured another data point for Idemitsu wouldn't hurt anything since the plan is to do a full swap with it and then work over to the Ravenol as suggested.

I know the counter needs to be reset with VIDA, but I've read conflicting information about running the adaptation procedure. Thoughts?
Still a good fluid choice. Yes to counter. BIG NO to resetting adaptations. Adaptations are reserved for mechanical fixes or changes, not fluid.
 
#28 ·
Thanks guys. No major issues with the trans as of yet, although I believe I started to notice a bit of RPM flare/slip in 1-2 and 2-3 shifts, so want to jump on it early. Not sure what is in it, I believe the previous owner did one drain and fill and left it at that so...

I bit the bullet and ordered the Idemitsu, just hit the door. The specs are very similar to Mobil/T-IV which is well documented here, so I figured another data point for Idemitsu wouldn't hurt anything since the plan is to do a full swap with it and then work over to the Ravenol as suggested.

I know the counter needs to be reset with VIDA, but I've read conflicting information about running the adaptation procedure. Thoughts?
 
#31 · (Edited)
Swap went well; easy stuff, more time consuming than anything. The fluid actually was in pretty decent shape and no burnt odor, but a definite improvement in color working thru the stages.

Driveability seems to be about the same. I really didn't have anything to complain about before, no hard shifts or anything except what seems to be flare or slippage in 2nd/3rd gear. It's still acting the same way; most noticeable in 3rd, it seems to hang/slip for a little while before it really locks down into gear and gets about its business. [Edit: I should mention that we're talking about part throttle application here; call it 50-75% throttle... no issues at all under WOT.] Not sure if this is normal operation for this transmission or not. I come from decades of driving manual transmission cars, this is our first automatic in a long time and our first Volvo ever so... could just be me.

If I had to pick one thing about this car that bugs me the most, it is the operation of the transmission. Definitely "luxury" oriented, I wish it were more crisp and responsive in shifting. No problem whatsoever at higher RPMs, and when I move it over to manual mode it seems a lot more responsive. On 1-2 shifts, there is a notable delay between the time I push the lever and it actually going into 2nd. I was going to put a Hilton tune on it because I wanted it to be a somewhat beastly Euro wagon, but the way it acts now has me thinking I will probably just leave it as is... not looking for any trouble LOL.

Apologies for the derail! I'll ride the Idemitsu out for 15K miles and then switch over to the Ravenol and report back.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Yep sure sounds like it, but I have scoured this forum, other Volvo forums and the internet at-large; examples of P3 XC70s with valve body problems are absolutely scarce, mostly a handful of 3.2L cars. I'm not saying it's outside the realm of possibility, but nearly everything I have found is related to the '07 and earlier models. Our car only has 95K miles on it and has been well maintained to boot... so I'm not yet convinced.

Tempted to do the adaptation, if only to see if it makes a difference. Someone talk me down LOL...
 
#38 · (Edited)
Firstly excellent review !

One thing to consider is the shear rating and how mineral oil shears down its hot temp viscosity over time (gets thinner over time at operating temp). Tim Thurber did an oil analysis and his factory JWS 3309 (T-IV) fluid came back with the hot temp viscosity (@100C) closer to thinner WS transmission fluid spec for 2011+ XC90s. So, all of you with old transmission fluid are running a thinner fluid at operating temp.
I have read in many places that every 11 degree rise in temperature over the normal ATF operating tempareture of 79.5C, like of ATF is reduced by half. Does this happen because of this shearing or are these two concepts different?

Also shearing is a factor of milage right? More milage=more shearing?
 
#39 ·
There are a lot of videos on YouTube you can search for a more thorough explanation on oil. The same properties for engine oil apply for transmission oil when it comes to shear and thermal breakdown. While they are independent, they not necessarily mutually exclusive. We can safely assume more miles will cause more shearing down of the oil, but that synthetics are more resistant, or has a lower rate of shearing down compared to conventional oil.
Here is one video explaining oil shear.

(Edit) wanted to add, since you posted in a different forum…the fluids and oils in vehicles oxidize over time.

Are you thinking of using Ravenol Synthetic T-IV in your Volvo 6-speed TF80-SC?
 
#40 ·
(Edit) wanted to add, since you posted in a different forum…the fluids and oils in vehicles oxidize over time.
Thanks for the response. I am exploring JWS3309 spec ATF brands. Mobil ATF 3309 seems to be popular. I would consider Ravenol Synthetic T-IV too, after reading your review.

The question at this moment is the longevity of the additives in the (friction modifiers, anti foaming agents etc), purely based on time since oxidation of the oil itself is visible through darkening of the ATF color. In other words, does ATF additives go bad with time irrespective of milage.
 
#42 ·
Here’s another reason to use Synthetic Ravenol T-IV. Remember, Germany restricts the use of the Synthetic label only for group IV oils, which is a true Synthetic, PAO here.

Ravenol T-IV, made in Germany, is a Synthetic that is much higher quality than conventional JWS-3309/T-IV fluids. I and others have talked about the consistency in driving in all temps & miles, and how the transmission performs better compared to conventional fluids. Faster shifting, better cold shifting, better hot shifting, and better longevity. Now we can see how high quality Synthetic transmission fluids do better.

Here’s a video for Dexron VI. Mobil is the only Synth-blend in this video, while the others are Synthetic, but the Redline is a clear high quality Synthetic. The Synthetic Redline behaves like my experience using Ravenol in the TF-80SC 6-speed transmission. The quality spread between Synthetic Ravenol T-IV and conventional Mobil 3309 must be much wider than seen in this video between Redline and others. Oils are not all the same.

 
#45 ·
Ravenol T-IV is 1.7-2x the price of Mobil JWS3309 and Toyota T-IV. To really do a full exchange you need at least 10-12 quarts (transmission takes 8+, I do 16 on my first flush then 12 on subsequent). That's over $220 if you use the blauparts price (and if you can find it). it). Mobil or Toyota will run around $100 for the same quantity. One could easily do a full swapout with the less expensive fluid then add another 8 quarts of "fresh" at a later date for the same cost.

I'm curious, does Ravenol definitively and demonstratively resolve shift issues on a pre-06J TF-80SC transmission? Now that might be something for the older vehicle if it was true (again to a definitive and demonstratable degree). And is there really such a thing as an optimal one-shot transmission fluid for a 16-year-old vehicle with 100k plus mileage vehicle that's never been changed? I wonder what would be considered "optimal" under those circumstances.

After all these years of Ravenol being available, it remains an outlier in terms of use (think MaxLife gets into more vehicles). Sure we can pull the few "testimonials" around on Swedespeed (search "Ravenol T-IV" for the entire Swedespeed site and see what comes back), but the proof in my opinion is in the adoption numbers which in turn would drive more comment and feedback.
 
#46 ·
So, you debate theories and more theories without trying yourself, but real-world positive feedback is already there, and not just by me…even by those who like to argue against me. Real-world feedback is real, no debating that it exists.

❓@ggleavitt Why don’t you try it so you can give real-world results instead of debate theory?

👍 Also, I did try your theory of swapping out Mobil 3309 early (did 2 fluid exchanges) and Ravenol still performs better. Thanks for mentioning this because it’s important to repeat that I did try the early fluid interval and now know I will save money, and extend my transmission life, by using Ravenol. It shifts better now using Synthetic Ravenol than it did 80k+ miles ago with fresh Mobil 3309. That’s definitely worth it!!

The value for the only maintenance item for the TF-80SC using JWS-3309/T-IV is very high with better fluid being in the transmission. Shifts did improve for those of us who have left feedback for our 6-speed transmissions. Yes, it is noticeable how consistent the Synthetic Ravenol T-IV fluid is, degradation of the fluid is not felt like it is with other fluids. As we also see with engine oil Synthetics vs conventional, synthetics will protect better against wear and that is important in the aluminum valve bodies.

I’ve said how I could feel the shifts get worse in just 20k miles with Mobil 3309 convention fluid and in the ATF video linked earlier which had Semi-Synth Mobil (not conventional like Mobil 3309) the performance dropped the most out of all ATFs in the video. Yes, like anyone who has changed their fluid to newer fluid with better shifting, you can feel degradation of oil in the shifting quality.

BTW, Mobil 3309 conventional would be classified as a Group I oil and in the video the Mobil Dex6 oil is Semi-synth Group II, while Ravenol Synthetic PAO would be Group IV.
 
#47 ·
Not sure I follow, where's the theoretical? Ravenol T-IV costs almost twice as much as what folks customarily use and it's probably dead last in terms of statistical usage by the same real world populations that you reference.

Folks, don't trust my word, see for yourself. Input "Ravenol T-IV" into the Search Community window at the top of the Swedespeed site screen, see what comes back. Search the entire Swedespeed site, don't limit yourself to this forum. Consider how many different other Volvo models are using the TF-80SC and then validate what forum returns a response. No theoretical postulating here, it's all in the search return results.

I posed a couple questions in my last post, they are suppositive responses at best but I wanted to put things in perspective. No theoretical posturing for me, I've always followed what everyone else has used in their vehicles since joining the forum in 2005, first with my AW5 then following up with the TF-80. Mobil 3309 works great for me over 3 vehicle and 18 years (disclaimer- did do a Toyota T-IV flush at one point in the '05, 3309 was not available at the time).

As relates to the counter argument of why not try Ravenol? Dunno, maybe someday if I receive a case of 12l for free I'll do a swap in one of my vehicles and provide my personal experience. I've seen nothing since Ravenol first came up in a post (believe @ChitownV was the initial author 10/18) that suggests that the cost matches the performance as a driver to encourage use, otherwise I would be a fan. But somebody send me a case and I'll give it a try.

In the meantime, folks should try the search.
 
#48 ·
Appreciate you bringing more attention to the Synthetic Ravenol T-IV since it is a great fluid that performs better than conventional Mobil 3309.

@ggleavitt please show me the data to support your theories since you are making claims on value. Do you follow the same logic with suspension or engine parts? What about angle gear and diff fluid? Thanks!

@ggleavitt Also, please show me data that Group I oils are better than Group IV oils. Thanks!

Real world results are real. You can argue against that all you want. People even use Idemitsu and Aisin less than Mobil, but that doesn’t mean they are worse oils. Rofl 🤣 I also have people private message me about the better performing Ravenol. What is obvious is that Synthetic Ravenol T-IV is a superior fluid compared to conventional Mobil 3309.

Hey, you also tried to debate against me and had doubts about polyurethane control arm bushings and now that more people are using them, you won’t find a bad review for the XC90.

Unfortunately, the forum search is not as good as it could be and doesn’t show all the results. That’s one of the main reason I start the guides because it can be difficult to find the info.

Here is good feedback and from a member that will argue against me at any moment so you know he is speaking truth (he expressed eating crow), post #51. This did not show up in the search.
 
#51 ·
If the entirety of your response is to diminish the validity of my opinion by turning this into a counter argument, let's move on. I don't need to prove anything relating to 3309 compatible transmission fluids to anyone, time and population have already done it for me.

If the site-wide search on Swedespeed does not show all of the results (and perhaps limits the value of the response), folks should try the same search ("Ravenol T-IV") on www.matthewsvolvosite.com and www.volvoxc.com, see if they differ from the Swedespeed trend.

No need to suppose about transmission fluids, let statistical fact guide the discussion. Cool to promote Ravenol and I'm sure it's still a great fluid to use. Just not for me at nearly double the cost.

@ChitownV, as you've expressed your opinion about this, so have I. That's what is so nice about the Swedespeed forum, we can agree to disagree and not make something as simple as a fluid change on a 9-20 year old vehicle turn into something personal.

edit- fix MVS link.
 
#52 ·
If the entirety of your response is to diminish the validity of my opinion by turning this into a counter argument, let's move on. I don't need to prove anything relating to 3309 compatible transmission fluids to anyone, time and population have already done it for me.

If the site-wide search on Swedespeed does not show all of the results (and perhaps limits the value of the response), folks should try the same thing on matthewsvolvosite.com and www.volvoxc.com, see if they differ from the Swedespeed trend.

No need to suppose about transmission fluids, let statistical fact guide the discussion. Cool to promote Ravenol and I'm sure it's still a great fluid to use. Just not for me at nearly double the cost.

@ChitownV, as you've expressed your opinion about this, so have I. That's what is so nice about the Swedespeed forum, we can agree to disagree and not make something as simple as a fluid change on a 9-20 year old vehicle turn into something personal.
😆 Your entire opinion is to devalue or invalidate mine and others’ real-world feedback. Yes, I’m posting from actually and directly using Synthetic Ravenol in my own XC90 TF-80SC. No theories.

Why argue if those who are willing to try a German Group IV Synthetic Ravenol T-IV fluid in their TF-80SC want something better than conventional Mobil 3309? Why not let them validate or debunk my claims? They could always go back to Mobil 3309 if they choose. One thing is for certain, it won’t make the transmission worse off.

This is why I post publicly, so my claims can be challenged by those who can directly validate or invalidate my claims. Not afraid to let others post their direct findings. That is consistent with how I post, in addition I will also consistently post if there are issues with parts I choose. Even one of my harshest critics validated the better performance of Ravenol. 😉

You would think after all these years for those who are using Synthetic Ravenol, they would have posted an issue in their TF-80SC, but none.

🙂 Finding out if there are better quality parts and better fluids out there will only make the community stronger and keep our XC90s running healthier for longer on the road.
 
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