ATTN EVERYBODY.... No more free software!!!!
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by nbvolks\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Don\'t take offense to it. The reality is that OTA has fewer potential failure points. That\'s just the reality. Once you introduce physical connectors and people who themselves are not software people (most techs), you introduce more opportunities for failure.
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    \r\nBut again, I think it\'s worth waiting to hear back from VCUSA about the customer facing aspect of this, since the last sentence of their notice implies the dealer impact is effective 8/1, but leaves the customer side as a "will be".
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    \nOTA is no more special or "secure connection" than the wifi SW downloads we do at the dealer. It is also no more secure than ethernet.
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    \r\nI am not taking offense to anything but its stupid to say OTA (cellular) is more secure than ethernet directly from a laptop/desktop.
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    \r\nThe customer side is as usual dumped on the dealer/tech. Volvo cares less about us techs than customers. They said we can continue to do it for free or not do it at all. I dont know about you guys but I never work for free. Especially with the hazards that come along with the SW updates.\r\n
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    Disgruntled Volvo Technician & Owner.
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    \r\nDO NOT PM me with your car questions.
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    \r\n As a red teamer, please go to OTA so I can build out tools that can hack your cars.
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    \r\nThe more manufacturers that go to the OTA concept, the more tools can be built to do this.
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    \r\nIf you don\'t note the sarcasm, please insert sarcasm into that comment.\r\n
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    \r\n Any manufacturer who has the hubris to state " we will be removing Complimentary Software updates from our suite of customer promises under the Service by Volvo umbrella" does not deserve my business. A promise is a promise, even from an automobile manufacturer. There are other words for "removing a promise", and none of them are very complimentary. Bad show, Volvo. This will turn out to be a huge mistake that will tarnish a brand that once stood for something.\r\n
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    2016 XC90 Momentum+ , Luminous Sand/Blonde, 20-inch 5-Double Spoke Matt Tech Black Diamond Cut Alloy Wheels
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    \r\n How’s your XC90 vs Model X thread working out for you now?? Lmaooo\r\n
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    \r\n Stop making excuses for an idiotic corporate decision. NO consumer will like this and the auto industry is moving away from this sort of bone head attitude. Wake up and look around. geeze...
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by fyreline\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Any manufacturer who has the hubris to state " we will be removing Complimentary Software updates from our suite of customer promises under the Service by Volvo umbrella" does not deserve my business. A promise is a promise, even from an automobile manufacturer. There are other words for "removing a promise", and none of them are very complimentary. Bad show, Volvo. This will turn out to be a huge mistake that will tarnish a brand that once stood for something.
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    \nExactly!\r\n
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    \r\n \r\n Last edited by Paradox; 08-02-2019 at 10:49 AM.\r\n \r\n \r\n Reason: merged 2 consecutive posts, use multi quote\r\n \r\n
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    2020 xc60 "Polestar Engineered", crystal white.
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    \r\n If you are selling a high tech product at a premium, you have to support it, esp during the paid maintenance period. Otherwise the customer will go elsewhere\r\n
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    2019 XC90 T6 Inscription, Denim Blue/Brown Leather, Advanced Package, Charcoal Headliner, 20" OEM Wheels, Wife\'s ride
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by gunshow\r\n View Post\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by nbvolks\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Don\'t take offense to it. The reality is that OTA has fewer potential failure points. That\'s just the reality. Once you introduce physical connectors and people who themselves are not software people (most techs), you introduce more opportunities for failure.
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    \nBut again, I think it\'s worth waiting to hear back from VCUSA about the customer facing aspect of this, since the last sentence of their notice implies the dealer impact is effective 8/1, but leaves the customer side as a "will be".
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    \nOTA is no more special or "secure connection" than the wifi SW downloads we do at the dealer. It is also no more secure than ethernet.
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    \nI am not taking offense to anything but its stupid to say OTA (cellular) is more secure than ethernet directly from a laptop/desktop.
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    \nThe customer side is as usual dumped on the dealer/tech. Volvo cares less about us techs than customers. They said we can continue to do it for free or not do it at all. I dont know about you guys but I never work for free. Especially with the hazards that come along with the SW updates.
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    \n"Secure" is the wrong word. It\'s not about digital security in an information sense. I\'m talking about the physical Ethernet connection you\'re making as part of the process you go through. Any time you introduce a physical tethering component that sees repeated connections and disconnections they wear out and begin to fail. It is an additional point of failure. It\'s an additional level of process to OTA.
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    \nIt\'s like WAY back in the day when I wanted to update the software on my phone (pre-Android and iPhone), I would have to physically connect to my computer. Don\'t have to do that anymore, thankfully, and way less bricking of phones as a result.\r\n
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    \r\n For the record I\'m not defending them here either. I was just giving some context to how they started paying us and now are not.\r\n
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    \r\n How about Volvo just stop developing new software updates . . that way they don\'t have to provide them for free, or charge for them\r\n
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    \r\n I think this is a deal killer for me. Whether my dealer offers this or not. It is the principal of the matter and this still leaves me feeling bad about volvo and my choice to buy my 3rd and now 4th one in the last few years. It just stinks!\r\n
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    2020 xc60 "Polestar Engineered", crystal white.
    \r\n2019 xc40 T5-R Bursting Blue Premium & Advanced Packs.
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  • \r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n\n\n'; pd[7375747] = '\n\n\r\n
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    \r\n Well now that it’s not free, I’m really looking forward to seeing how much dealers across the country are going to charge for it. They will easily profit from this too.\r\n
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  • \r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n\n\n'; pd[7375751] = '\n\n\r\n
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    \r\n I feel like this will just cause more owners to falsely claim to have Sensus issues (rebooting, etc) to get a software update under warranty. I have had some genuine rebooting issues and mention them each time I bring my car in for warranty work, but those two visits have coincided with annual maintenance visits, so I don\'t know how they would have dealt with the issue as a warranty matter. I\'m okay with a nominal charge for software updates outside of warranty, but not before.\r\n
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    HIS: 2018 XC90 T6 Inscription/Denim Blue Metallic/Amber nappa leather/Polestar/B&W/Convenience/Air Suspension/HUD/Climate/Protection Package
    \r\nHERS: 2017 BMW X1 xDrive 28i/Olive Metallic/Canberra/Tech/Premium/Driving Assistance Plus/Cold Weather Package/Harman Kardan audio
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  • \r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n\n\n'; pd[7375767] = '\n\n\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Kh0805\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Well now that it’s not free, I’m really looking forward to seeing how much dealers across the country are going to charge for it. They will easily profit from this too.
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    \nI am working with management to still get 1/2 hour but at a reduced rate for the customer... something like $40-$50. I want to ensure out customers are happy despite volvo once again cutting us at the knees.
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    \r\nThink about it, i average 4 sevices a day, that is 2 hours a DAY JUST IN SOFTWARE UPDATES that I lose starting tomorrow. That is 10 hours a week minimum I am out. Its like losing a whole day for you normal hourly people. See why i am mad?
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by DenverJaguar\r\n View Post\r\n
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    I feel like this will just cause more owners to falsely claim to have Sensus issues (rebooting, etc) to get a software update under warranty.
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    \nI cant tell you that you\'re lying when you say it and I must go along with the complaint to attempt to fix it.\r\n
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    \r\n \r\n Last edited by gunshow; 07-31-2019 at 04:08 PM.\r\n \r\n \r\n
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    Disgruntled Volvo Technician & Owner.
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    \r\nDO NOT PM me with your car questions.
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    \r\nDO NOT GO INTO THE CAR BUSINESS.
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  • \r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n\n\n'; pd[7375899] = '\n\n\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by gunshow\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Think about it, i average 4 sevices a day, that is 2 hours a DAY JUST IN SOFTWARE UPDATES that I lose starting tomorrow. That is 10 hours a week minimum I am out. Its like losing a whole day for you normal hourly people. See why i am mad?
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    \nYou work for a Volvo dealer right? Don\'t you get paid by the Volvo dealer that employs you? Your employer could continue to pay you next week on the same basis as they paid you last week. I\'m not saying that they will . . but they could. I have no idea whether or not your employer is a dick, nor the terms of your employment agreement . . I\'m just saying that this could make absolutely no difference to you. The dealer will be impacted, for sure, and may chose to pass the cost on to the customer.\r\n
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    2016 XC90 T6 First Edition (64k)
    \r\n2011 Mini Cooper Clubman JCW (84k)
    \r\nSOLD: 2007 S80 3.2 (86k)
    \r\nSOLD: 2008 XC90 V8 Executive (91k)
    \r\nSOLD: 2007 S80 3.2 (80k)
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  • \r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n\n\n'; pd[7375915] = '\n\n\r\n
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    Join Date
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Noonzio\r\n View Post\r\n
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    You work for a Volvo dealer right? Don\'t you get paid by the Volvo dealer that employs you? Your employer could continue to pay you next week on the same basis as they paid you last week. I\'m not saying that they will . . but they could. I have no idea whether or not your employer is a dick, nor the terms of your employment agreement . . I\'m just saying that this could make absolutely no difference to you. The dealer will be impacted, for sure, and may chose to pass the cost on to the customer.
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    \nDealerships across this country do not pay a technician unless they are reimbursed by Volvo (warranty) or a customer (customer pay work). It is very very rare to be paid "internal" for work.\r\n
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    Disgruntled Volvo Technician & Owner.
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    \r\nDO NOT PM me with your car questions.
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    \r\nDO NOT GO INTO THE CAR BUSINESS.
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  • \r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n\n\n'; pd[7375921] = '\n\n\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by gunshow\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Dealerships across this country do not pay a technician unless they are reimbursed by Volvo (warranty) or a customer (customer pay work). It is very very rare to be paid "internal" for work.
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    \nI understand that - so if the dealership imposes a fee for customers to get software updates, the only person impacted will be the customer.\r\n
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    2016 XC90 T6 First Edition (64k)
    \r\n2011 Mini Cooper Clubman JCW (84k)
    \r\nSOLD: 2007 S80 3.2 (86k)
    \r\nSOLD: 2008 XC90 V8 Executive (91k)
    \r\nSOLD: 2007 S80 3.2 (80k)
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  • \r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n\n\n'; pd[7375789] = '\n\n\r\n
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    \r\n nbvolks\r\n \r\n
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    \r\n The other thing worth pointing out is that Google released the new Android Auto yesterday and Volvo and Google had been working very closely together on this.
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    \r\nhttps://www.blog.google/products/and...-android-auto/
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    \r\nGoogle has included Volvo in demonstrations at Google I/O in 2018 and in 2019.\r\n
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  • \r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n\n\n'; pd[7375807] = '\n\n\r\n
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    \r\n Isn\'t all this part of the trade war money loosing cuts?
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    \r\nhttps://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...-half-of-2019/\r\n
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  • \r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n\n\n'; pd[7375809] = '\n\n\r\n
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    \r\n I want to thank gunshow and tech for their information and time on here. They don\'t have to do it, but they are here giving us insight and updates with regards to our cars. Thanks!!\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by VTbuckeye\r\n View Post\r\n
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    I want to thank gunshow and tech for their information and time on here. They don\'t have to do it, but they are here giving us insight and updates with regards to our cars. Thanks!!
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by VTbuckeye\r\n View Post\r\n
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    I want to thank gunshow and tech for their information and time on here. They don\'t have to do it, but they are here giving us insight and updates with regards to our cars. Thanks!!
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by ig_mb\r\n View Post\r\n
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    +1 million
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    \nYou guys are welcome and I apologize for showing my frustration/anger.\r\n
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    Disgruntled Volvo Technician & Owner.
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    \r\nDO NOT PM me with your car questions.
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by rkohou\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Isn\'t all this part of the trade war money loosing cuts?
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    \nNo, because they\'re still doing SW development, and lowering the penetration of new SW updates would end up costing them more in potentially wasted warranty fishing expeditions and in new car sales resulting from customer frustration.\r\n
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    \r\n What I don\'t get with the theory that "the previously promised free updates aren\'t free because Volvo will be doing OTA (free or not) very soon" is why separate the OTA announcement (if true) from the end of promised free updates? Doesn\'t that just make customers angry unecessarily before announcing what may be free (or not free) OTA updates (again, if true)?
    \r\nThis theory doesn\'t make sense to me or someone really eff\'d up at corporate or corporate communications . . .
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by VTbuckeye\r\n View Post\r\n
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    I want to thank gunshow and tech for their information and time on here. They don\'t have to do it, but they are here giving us insight and updates with regards to our cars. Thanks!!
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    \r\nThanks also.
    \r\nAlso, "Truth to power" [emoji106]\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by likeXC90\r\n View Post\r\n
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    What I don\'t get with the theory that "the previously promised free updates aren\'t free because Volvo will be doing OTA (free or not) very soon" is why separate the OTA announcement (if true) from the end of promised free updates? Doesn\'t that just make customers angry unecessarily before announcing what may be free (or not free) OTA updates (again, if true)?
    \nThis theory doesn\'t make sense to me or someone really eff\'d up at corporate or corporate communications . . .
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    \nAs I\'ve said, Volvo has made no public/customer facing announcement about the updates currently provided as part of "Service by Volvo". All we have is what they announced to their dealer network, which is only one half of the equation.
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    \nSo to all of us, as customers, nothing has changed yet, they just gave their dealer network a heads up on an aspect of an upcoming change and how it will impact them, as dealers/service providers.
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    \nIF there\'s a larger context tied to a much anticipated change to Sensus and that announcement is embargoed, it would not be included in a service tech bulletin.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by nbvolks\r\n View Post\r\n
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    As I\'ve said, Volvo has made no public/customer facing announcement about the updates currently provided as part of "Service by Volvo". ...
    \nIF there\'s a larger context tied to a much anticipated change to Sensus and that announcement is embargoed, it would not be included in a service tech bulletin.
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    \nI really hope you\'re right that we\'re missing the forthcoming full story which is to the betterment of all (dealers, customers, corporate). This action, taken by itself, is not the Volvo that attracted me to the brand in the first place and just seems so out of character from the Volvo I\'ve come to know . . .\r\n
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    \r\n Just got service last week and free upgrade. When’s it start?
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by likeXC90\r\n View Post\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by nbvolks\r\n View Post\r\n
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    As I\'ve said, Volvo has made no public/customer facing announcement about the updates currently provided as part of "Service by Volvo". ...
    \nIF there\'s a larger context tied to a much anticipated change to Sensus and that announcement is embargoed, it would not be included in a service tech bulletin.
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    \nI really hope you\'re right that we\'re missing the forthcoming full story which is to the betterment of all (dealers, customers, corporate). This action, taken by itself, is not the Volvo that attracted me to the brand in the first place and just seems so out of character from the Volvo I\'ve come to know . . .
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    \nMe too!
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    \nThough this is definitely a net loss for dealers. They were getting paid for book value of 30 minutes on something that I\'d hope wasn\'t taking a tech 30 minutes of their undivided attention, with them sitting there watching the download and upload.\r\n
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    \r\n well, Volvo likes to trot our their namby pamby good PR like the Tows for Life garbage, I\'m going to throw this tip to every car blog and put some negative PR on these turds for once.
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    \r\n**** these guys really....
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    \r\n….on the other hand the **** dealers lost an advantage they have over indy shops, so that\'s good for me at least.....but horrible for Volvo as a brand.\r\n
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    \r\n Well, I never got updates for free. So I guess this just gets the rest of the network in synch with my (former) dealership...
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    \r\nNo, sure, it sucks. But the problem is not free vs. not-free updates. The problem is the clunky update process.\r\n
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  • \r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n\n\n'; pd[7376203] = '\n\n\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60\r\n View Post\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by gunshow\r\n View Post\r\n
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    You are wrong... I will say this AGAIN.... if there is a vehicle repair under warranty that requires SW, we will be compensated.
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    \nThis is just the free SW during services that we are no longer compensated for doing.
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    \nOTA will never happen. Vehicles are crashing while connected via ethernet and wifi for no apparent reason at the dealers. This takes hours of repair to get the vehicle running again. OTA WILL NOT HAPPEN!!!!
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    \nWell glad I am wrong on that accord....But updates and Upgrades out of warranty won\'t be complementary....Correct?
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    \nUpdates in warranty that are not to fix a problem or updates out of warranty for any reason won\'t be paid for by Volvo.
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60\r\n View Post\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Noonzio\r\n View Post\r\n
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    You work for a Volvo dealer right? Don\'t you get paid by the Volvo dealer that employs you? Your employer could continue to pay you next week on the same basis as they paid you last week. I\'m not saying that they will . . but they could. I have no idea whether or not your employer is a dick, nor the terms of your employment agreement . . I\'m just saying that this could make absolutely no difference to you. The dealer will be impacted, for sure, and may chose to pass the cost on to the customer.
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    \nI believe Tech said Tesla is a flat rate. Most techs work by the job and are not on a flat salary. Thus, those book hours (even if it takes 1/2 the time) is what keeps the service department running and techs paid .
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    \nTesla is not flat rate. Flat rate is what gunshow and myself work on. Tesla is straight hourly.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Tech\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Updates in warranty that are not to fix a problem or updates out of warranty for any reason won\'t be paid for by Volvo.
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    \r\nTesla is not flat rate. Flat rate is what gunshow and myself work on. Tesla is straight hourly.
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    \nGrrr ya sorry I brain farted and mixed it up. Tesla is Hourly / Salary and you\'re flat rate... But glad you knew what I mean.
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by gunshow\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Time for a revolution and revolt my friend.
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    \r\nI will actively tell future techs and kids looking to go to automotive school to steer clear of Volvo and flat rate shops. Once the industry has more of a shortage than it does now, things will change. Dont get me wrong, I am very efficient and make a great living but every year is a new cut into my flat rate hours.
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    \nI imagine it\'s a trade off. You could make more on flat rate at a very busy shop. On the flip side, working at Tesla Guarantees you a paycheck that isn\'t based upon workload.
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by xgman\r\n View Post\r\n
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    How much labor could possibly be involved in a "total update"? I get the stall is taken for a while, but the tech pulls the car in the lane, hooks up the interface and lets it fly. You don\'t have to sit there and baby sit it. The real time is the bay being busy for however long that takes.
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    \r\nAnyway, my take on this is that eventually most volvo dealers will continue to offer this during routine scheduled service appointments, and those that don\'t may try to rip people off, and hopefully then would see business drop off. Maybe volvo will then reconsider. Either way, it was an ugly thing for volvousa to do in the first place.
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    \nIf you read gunshow\'s post, it isn\'t the update that\'s necessary problematic. It\'s when an update gets borked and the tech now has to remote into the car to try and correct the problem. And I imagine that some modules just end up getting replaced if the issue cannot be recovered from. But that\'s my guess. Either way, you are paying the tech for his time since these things don\'t always go smooth.\r\n
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    \r\n What Volvo has done is throw this issue to the dealers to handle. Some will do the right thing by their customers, and some will look to profit. Be selective if you can.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by gunshow\r\n View Post\r\n
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    When you say profit, you mean to say we dont work for free so somebody has to pay us to do the work.
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    \nI mean the dealer could charge the customer for updates when the car is sitting in the shop for something else whereas some dealers would offer the upgrade for free as part of their policy. Dealers choice. No-one is saying not to pay the techs. This has nothing to do with the techs. They work, they should get paid period by the dealer. Dealers that treat customers right get lots of business.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by xgman\r\n View Post\r\n
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    I mean the dealer could charge the customer for updates when the car is sitting in the shop for something else whereas some dealers would offer the upgrade for free as part of their policy. Dealers choice. No-one is saying not to pay the techs. Dealers that treat customers right get lots of business.
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    \nYou are 100% correct and I agree with you BUT.... Dealers across America do not pay technicians unless they are reimbursed by Volvo (warranty) or customers.
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    \r\nSo... starting today I just lost 5 hours (at a minimum) of paid work A WEEK!!
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    \r\nHighly doubtful dealerships will pay us internally and Volvo is not paying us now so who will pick up the 1/2 hour of labor per SW update that we techs just lost?
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    \r\nSW costs nothing. It is the labor to install and the risks of the download that we must be aware of.\r\n
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    Disgruntled Volvo Technician & Owner.
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    \r\nDO NOT PM me with your car questions.
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by gunshow\r\n View Post\r\n
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    You are 100% correct and I agree with you BUT.... Dealers across America do not pay technicians unless they are reimbursed by Volvo (warranty) or customers.
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    \r\nNot true where I go, and no disrespect, but your unfortunate situation (which I wouldn\'t put up with if I were you) is of no consequence to my issue with how Volvo and dealers handle this. Obviously it affects you, but that is another matter.
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    \r\nAnd if I were you, I\'d be more upset with Volvo for your situation than us customers.
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by gunshow\r\n View Post\r\n
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    You are 100% correct and I agree with you BUT.... Dealers across America do not pay technicians unless they are reimbursed by Volvo (warranty) or customers.
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    \r\nSo... starting today I just lost 5 hours (at a minimum) of paid work A WEEK!!
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    \r\nHighly doubtful dealerships will pay us internally and Volvo is not paying us now so who will pick up the 1/2 hour of labor per SW update that we techs just lost?
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    \r\nSW costs nothing. It is the labor to install and the risks of the download that we must be aware of.
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    \nHow were you paid for SW updates pre-2018? They were still complimentary to the customer, but Volvo was not reimbursing for the time.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by xgman\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Not true where I go, and no disrespect, but your unfortunate situation (which I wouldn\'t put up with if I were you) is of no consequence to my issue with how Volvo and dealers handle this. Obviously it affects you, but that is another matter.
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    \r\nAnd if I were you, I\'d be more upset with Volvo for your situation than us customers.
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    \r\n(by the way, sorry for two thread going on this conversation)
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    \nI was never mad at the customer and I apologize if it seems that way. I am/will be agitated if anybody thinks I will work for free and accept the risk of SW downloads all for free.
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by nbvolks\r\n View Post\r\n
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    How were you paid for SW updates pre-2018? They were still complimentary to the customer, but Volvo was not reimbursing for the time.
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    \nAs far as I remember, Volvo paid us in some form or fashion for SPA SW updates since the car was released. We never did free SW downloads prior to SPA and after SPA.
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    \r\nNOTE: free is talking about labor, not SW itself.
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    Disgruntled Volvo Technician & Owner.
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Tech\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Tesla is not flat rate. Flat rate is what gunshow and myself work on. Tesla is straight hourly.
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    \r\nTime for a revolution and revolt my friend.
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    \r\nI will actively tell future techs and kids looking to go to automotive school to steer clear of Volvo and flat rate shops. Once the industry has more of a shortage than it does now, things will change. Dont get me wrong, I am very efficient and make a great living but every year is a new cut into my flat rate hours.
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by xgman\r\n View Post\r\n
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    What Volvo has done is throw this issue to the dealers to handle. Some will do the right thing by their customers, and some will look to profit. Be selective if you can.
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    \nWhen you say profit, you mean to say we dont work for free so somebody has to pay us to do the work.\r\n
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    Disgruntled Volvo Technician & Owner.
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    \r\n How much labor could possibly be involved in a "total update"? I get the stall is taken for a while, but the tech pulls the car in the lane, hooks up the interface and lets it fly. You don\'t have to sit there and baby sit it. The real time is the bay being busy for however long that takes.
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    \r\nAnyway, my take on this is that eventually most volvo dealers will continue to offer this during routine scheduled service appointments, and those that don\'t may try to rip people off, and hopefully then would see business drop off. Maybe volvo will then reconsider. Either way, it was an ugly thing for volvousa to do in the first place.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by gunshow\r\n View Post\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Tech\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Tesla is not flat rate. Flat rate is what gunshow and myself work on. Tesla is straight hourly.
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    \nTime for a revolution and revolt my friend.
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    \nI will actively tell future techs and kids looking to go to automotive school to steer clear of Volvo and flat rate shops. Once the industry has more of a shortage than it does now, things will change. Dont get me wrong, I am very efficient and make a great living but every year is a new cut into my flat rate hours.
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    \nI don\'t mind flat rate. But I\'m very efficient so it increases my effective hourly rate. In my area, Tesla\'s max hourly rate is much less than my effective hourly rate. Factoring in cheaper insurance closes the gap slightly but not enough for me to make the jump.
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    \nBut it isn\'t just Volvo. I work at a multiline store. Warranty pay is bad everywhere. Worse even at some of the other brands.
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by nbvolks\r\n View Post\r\n
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    How were you paid for SW updates pre-2018? They were still complimentary to the customer, but Volvo was not reimbursing for the time.
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    \nWe were not paid by Volvo prior to that. See post 24 in this thread giving some back story on the whole free update idea.\r\n
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  • \r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n\n\n'; // next/previous post info pn[7375095] = "7378453,7375113"; pn[0] = ",7375095"; pn[7375113] = "7375095,7375117"; pn[7375117] = "7375113,7375119"; pn[7375119] = "7375117,7375127"; pn[7375127] = "7375119,7410349"; pn[7410349] = "7375127,7375121"; pn[7375121] = "7410349,7375171"; pn[7375171] = "7375121,7375241"; pn[7375241] = "7375171,7375125"; pn[7375125] = "7375241,7375139"; pn[7375139] = "7375125,7375155"; pn[7375155] = "7375139,7375179"; pn[7375179] = "7375155,7375189"; pn[7375189] = "7375179,7444773"; pn[7444773] = "7375189,7375495"; pn[7375495] = "7444773,7375503"; pn[7375503] = "7375495,7375367"; pn[7375367] = "7375503,7375147"; pn[7375147] = "7375367,7375153"; pn[7375153] = "7375147,7375169"; pn[7375169] = "7375153,7375203"; pn[7375203] = "7375169,7376471"; pn[7376471] = "7375203,7375173"; pn[7375173] = "7376471,7375187"; pn[7375187] = "7375173,7375199"; pn[7375199] = "7375187,7375245"; pn[7375245] = "7375199,7375211"; pn[7375211] = "7375245,7375463"; pn[7375463] = "7375211,7375469"; pn[7375469] = "7375463,7376163"; pn[7376163] = "7375469,7376393"; pn[7376393] = "7376163,7375471"; pn[7375471] = "7376393,7375237"; pn[7375237] = "7375471,7400087"; pn[7400087] = "7375237,7375255"; pn[7375255] = "7400087,7375295"; pn[7375295] = "7375255,7375343"; pn[7375343] = "7375295,7375349"; pn[7375349] = "7375343,7375365"; pn[7375365] = "7375349,7376205"; pn[7376205] = "7375365,7375321"; pn[7375321] = "7376205,7375347"; pn[7375347] = "7375321,7375353"; pn[7375353] = "7375347,7375373"; pn[7375373] = "7375353,7375381"; pn[7375381] = "7375373,7376147"; pn[7376147] = "7375381,7380247"; pn[7380247] = "7376147,7380577"; pn[7380577] = "7380247,7375271"; pn[7375271] = "7380577,7375305"; pn[7375305] = "7375271,7375327"; pn[7375327] = "7375305,7375331"; pn[7375331] = "7375327,7375313"; pn[7375313] = "7375331,7375337"; pn[7375337] = "7375313,7375369"; pn[7375369] = "7375337,7375395"; pn[7375395] = "7375369,7375411"; pn[7375411] = "7375395,7375445"; pn[7375445] = "7375411,7375451"; pn[7375451] = "7375445,7376797"; pn[7376797] = "7375451,7375399"; pn[7375399] = "7376797,7375407"; pn[7375407] = "7375399,7375421"; pn[7375421] = "7375407,7375437"; pn[7375437] = "7375421,7375457"; pn[7375457] = "7375437,7375481"; pn[7375481] = "7375457,7375623"; pn[7375623] = "7375481,7375649"; pn[7375649] = "7375623,7375655"; pn[7375655] = "7375649,7375747"; pn[7375747] = "7375655,7375751"; pn[7375751] = "7375747,7375767"; pn[7375767] = "7375751,7375899"; pn[7375899] = "7375767,7375915"; pn[7375915] = "7375899,7375921"; pn[7375921] = "7375915,7375789"; pn[7375789] = "7375921,7375807"; pn[7375807] = "7375789,7375809"; pn[7375809] = "7375807,7375825"; pn[7375825] = "7375809,7375837"; pn[7375837] = "7375825,7375829"; pn[7375829] = "7375837,7375833"; pn[7375833] = "7375829,7375849"; pn[7375849] = "7375833,7375925"; pn[7375925] = "7375849,7375911"; pn[7375911] = "7375925,7375945"; pn[7375945] = "7375911,7376093"; pn[7376093] = "7375945,7376189"; pn[7376189] = "7376093,7376203"; pn[7376203] = "7376189,7376583"; pn[7376583] = "7376203,7376301"; pn[7376301] = "7376583,7376317"; pn[7376317] = "7376301,7376329"; pn[7376329] = "7376317,7376335"; pn[7376335] = "7376329,7376341"; pn[7376341] = "7376335,7376367"; pn[7376367] = "7376341,7376307"; pn[7376307] = "7376367,7376369"; pn[7376369] = "7376307,7376373"; pn[7376373] = "7376369,7376379"; pn[7376379] = "7376373,7376389"; pn[7376389] = "7376379,7376403"; pn[7376403] = "7376389,7376415"; pn[7376415] = "7376403,7376533"; pn[7376533] = "7376415,7376563"; pn[7376563] = "7376533,7376391"; pn[7376391] = "7376563,7376421"; pn[7376421] = "7376391,7376429"; pn[7376429] = "7376421,7376597"; pn[7376597] = "7376429,7376561"; pn[7376561] = "7376597,7376593"; pn[7376593] = "7376561,7376595"; pn[7376595] = "7376593,7376599"; pn[7376599] = "7376595,7376711"; pn[7376711] = "7376599,7376743"; pn[7376743] = "7376711,7376751"; pn[7376751] = "7376743,7376793"; pn[7376793] = "7376751,7376615"; pn[7376615] = "7376793,7376617"; pn[7376617] = "7376615,7376619"; pn[7376619] = "7376617,7376663"; pn[7376663] = "7376619,7376935"; pn[7376935] = "7376663,7376673"; pn[7376673] = "7376935,7376763"; pn[7376763] = "7376673,7376775"; pn[7376775] = "7376763,7376785"; pn[7376785] = "7376775,7376795"; pn[7376795] = "7376785,7376807"; pn[7376807] = "7376795,7379321"; pn[7379321] = "7376807,7379805"; pn[7379805] = "7379321,7376813"; pn[7376813] = "7379805,7376881"; pn[7376881] = "7376813,7376889"; pn[7376889] = "7376881,7376999"; pn[7376999] = "7376889,7377081"; pn[7377081] = "7376999,7377095"; pn[7377095] = "7377081,7377107"; pn[7377107] = "7377095,7377133"; pn[7377133] = "7377107,7377167"; pn[7377167] = "7377133,7377185"; pn[7377185] = "7377167,7377391"; pn[7377391] = "7377185,7377401"; pn[7377401] = "7377391,7377405"; pn[7377405] = "7377401,7377431"; pn[7377431] = "7377405,7378265"; pn[7378265] = "7377431,7378277"; pn[7378277] = "7378265,7378283"; pn[7378283] = "7378277,7378287"; pn[7378287] = "7378283,7378293"; pn[7378293] = "7378287,7378299"; pn[7378299] = "7378293,7378301"; pn[7378301] = "7378299,7378329"; pn[7378329] = "7378301,7378655"; pn[7378655] = "7378329,7378333"; pn[7378333] = "7378655,7378337"; pn[7378337] = "7378333,7378683"; pn[7378683] = "7378337,7378723"; pn[7378723] = "7378683,7378905"; pn[7378905] = "7378723,7378915"; pn[7378915] = "7378905,7378941"; pn[7378941] = "7378915,7379003"; pn[7379003] = "7378941,7379433"; pn[7379433] = "7379003,7379447"; pn[7379447] = "7379433,7379443"; pn[7379443] = "7379447,7379905"; pn[7379905] = "7379443,7379517"; pn[7379517] = "7379905,7379583"; pn[7379583] = "7379517,7379593"; pn[7379593] = "7379583,7379661"; pn[7379661] = "7379593,7379767"; pn[7379767] = "7379661,7379785"; pn[7379785] = "7379767,7379943"; pn[7379943] = "7379785,7379951"; pn[7379951] = "7379943,7379795"; pn[7379795] = "7379951,7379817"; pn[7379817] = "7379795,7380153"; pn[7380153] = "7379817,7379891"; pn[7379891] = "7380153,7379965"; pn[7379965] = "7379891,7380291"; pn[7380291] = "7379965,7380049"; pn[7380049] = "7380291,7380109"; pn[7380109] = "7380049,7380111"; pn[7380111] = "7380109,7380117"; pn[7380117] = "7380111,7380123"; pn[7380123] = "7380117,7380191"; pn[7380191] = "7380123,7380195"; pn[7380195] = "7380191,7380203"; pn[7380203] = "7380195,7380207"; pn[7380207] = "7380203,7380249"; pn[7380249] = "7380207,7410351"; pn[7410351] = "7380249,7380233"; pn[7380233] = "7410351,7380269"; pn[7380269] = "7380233,7380439"; pn[7380439] = "7380269,7380445"; pn[7380445] = "7380439,7380267"; pn[7380267] = "7380445,7380293"; pn[7380293] = "7380267,7380303"; pn[7380303] = "7380293,7380313"; pn[7380313] = "7380303,7380327"; pn[7380327] = "7380313,7380399"; pn[7380399] = "7380327,7380409"; pn[7380409] = "7380399,7380423"; pn[7380423] = "7380409,7380451"; pn[7380451] = "7380423,7380469"; pn[7380469] = "7380451,7380597"; pn[7380597] = "7380469,7380609"; pn[7380609] = "7380597,7380615"; pn[7380615] = "7380609,7380621"; pn[7380621] = "7380615,7381067"; pn[7381067] = "7380621,7381101"; pn[7381101] = "7381067,7380737"; pn[7380737] = "7381101,7380759"; pn[7380759] = "7380737,7380865"; pn[7380865] = "7380759,7380917"; pn[7380917] = "7380865,7381021"; pn[7381021] = "7380917,7380907"; pn[7380907] = "7381021,7380955"; pn[7380955] = "7380907,7381025"; pn[7381025] = "7380955,7381041"; pn[7381041] = "7381025,7381115"; pn[7381115] = "7381041,7381203"; pn[7381203] = "7381115,7381229"; pn[7381229] = "7381203,7381257"; pn[7381257] = "7381229,7381259"; pn[7381259] = "7381257,7381291"; pn[7381291] = "7381259,7381317"; pn[7381317] = "7381291,7381331"; pn[7381331] = "7381317,7381477"; pn[7381477] = "7381331,7381275"; pn[7381275] = "7381477,7381897"; pn[7381897] = "7381275,7382043"; pn[7382043] = "7381897,7382119"; pn[7382119] = "7382043,7381527"; pn[7381527] = "7382119,7381531"; pn[7381531] = "7381527,7381541"; pn[7381541] = "7381531,7381585"; pn[7381585] = "7381541,7381609"; pn[7381609] = "7381585,7381621"; pn[7381621] = "7381609,7381627"; pn[7381627] = "7381621,7381635"; pn[7381635] = "7381627,7381649"; pn[7381649] = "7381635,7383077"; pn[7383077] = "7381649,7383409"; pn[7383409] = "7383077,7381669"; pn[7381669] = "7383409,7381851"; pn[7381851] = "7381669,7381871"; pn[7381871] = "7381851,7382061"; pn[7382061] = "7381871,7382087"; pn[7382087] = "7382061,7382089"; pn[7382089] = "7382087,7382121"; pn[7382121] = "7382089,7382123"; pn[7382123] = "7382121,7382149"; pn[7382149] = "7382123,7382143"; pn[7382143] = "7382149,7382643"; pn[7382643] = "7382143,7383421"; pn[7383421] = "7382643,7383473"; pn[7383473] = "7383421,7383569"; pn[7383569] = "7383473,7383573"; pn[7383573] = "7383569,7383577"; pn[7383577] = "7383573,7383583"; pn[7383583] = "7383577,7383603"; pn[7383603] = "7383583,7383625"; pn[7383625] = "7383603,7383627"; pn[7383627] = "7383625,7383793"; pn[7383793] = "7383627,7383647"; pn[7383647] = "7383793,7383759"; pn[7383759] = "7383647,7383917"; pn[7383917] = "7383759,7384019"; pn[7384019] = "7383917,7384035"; pn[7384035] = "7384019,7385161"; pn[7385161] = "7384035,7384261"; pn[7384261] = "7385161,7384655"; pn[7384655] = "7384261,7384303"; pn[7384303] = "7384655,7396139"; pn[7396139] = "7384303,7396393"; pn[7396393] = "7396139,7398333"; pn[7398333] = "7396393,7398667"; pn[7398667] = "7398333,7398925"; pn[7398925] = "7398667,7398929"; pn[7398929] = "7398925,7399643"; pn[7399643] = "7398929,7399647"; pn[7399647] = "7399643,7399943"; pn[7399943] = "7399647,7400617"; pn[7400617] = "7399943,7400629"; pn[7400629] = "7400617,7400417"; pn[7400417] = "7400629,7399671"; pn[7399671] = "7400417,7400639"; pn[7400639] = "7399671,7400643"; pn[7400643] = "7400639,7400651"; pn[7400651] = "7400643,7400653"; pn[7400653] = "7400651,7400671"; pn[7400671] = "7400653,7400677"; pn[7400677] = "7400671,7400701"; pn[7400701] = "7400677,7400811"; pn[7400811] = "7400701,7404331"; pn[7404331] = "7400811,7404951"; pn[7404951] = "7404331,7405085"; pn[7405085] = "7404951,7405767"; pn[7405767] = "7405085,7400957"; pn[7400957] = "7405767,7401605"; pn[7401605] = "7400957,7401615"; pn[7401615] = "7401605,7408737"; pn[7408737] = "7401615,7404211"; pn[7404211] = "7408737,7405191"; pn[7405191] = "7404211,7405205"; pn[7405205] = "7405191,7405219"; pn[7405219] = "7405205,7405305"; pn[7405305] = "7405219,7405645"; pn[7405645] = "7405305,7408615"; pn[7408615] = "7405645,7408625"; pn[7408625] = "7408615,7409041"; pn[7409041] = "7408625,7408785"; pn[7408785] = "7409041,7409105"; pn[7409105] = "7408785,7409255"; pn[7409255] = "7409105,7409327"; pn[7409327] = "7409255,7410059"; pn[7410059] = "7409327,7410091"; pn[7410091] = "7410059,7410155"; pn[7410155] = "7410091,7410261"; pn[7410261] = "7410155,7410453"; pn[7410453] = "7410261,7410215"; pn[7410215] = "7410453,7410379"; pn[7410379] = "7410215,7410457"; pn[7410457] = "7410379,7410531"; pn[7410531] = "7410457,7410565"; pn[7410565] = "7410531,7410615"; pn[7410615] = "7410565,7410621"; pn[7410621] = "7410615,7410635"; pn[7410635] = "7410621,7416043"; pn[7416043] = "7410635,7416383"; pn[7416383] = "7416043,7416373"; pn[7416373] = "7416383,7416387"; pn[7416387] = "7416373,7416631"; pn[7416631] = "7416387,7432371"; pn[7432371] = "7416631,7432847"; pn[7432847] = "7432371,7434251"; pn[7434251] = "7432847,7434437"; pn[7434437] = "7434251,7434987"; pn[7434987] = "7434437,7435045"; pn[7435045] = "7434987,7435353"; pn[7435353] = "7435045,7444115"; pn[7444115] = "7435353,7444143"; pn[7444143] = "7444115,7447009"; pn[7447009] = "7444143,7444137"; pn[7444137] = "7447009,7444157"; pn[7444157] = "7444137,7444181"; pn[7444181] = "7444157,7444275"; pn[7444275] = "7444181,7444339"; pn[7444339] = "7444275,7444397"; pn[7444397] = "7444339,7444413"; pn[7444413] = "7444397,7444417"; pn[7444417] = "7444413,7444447"; pn[7444447] = "7444417,7444791"; pn[7444791] = "7444447,7444857"; pn[7444857] = "7444791,7445021"; pn[7445021] = "7444857,7444869"; pn[7444869] = "7445021,7445633"; pn[7445633] = "7444869,7447675"; pn[7447675] = "7445633,7447703"; pn[7447703] = "7447675,7447711"; pn[7447711] = "7447703,7448203"; pn[7448203] = "7447711,7448235"; pn[7448235] = "7448203,7449021"; pn[7449021] = "7448235,7378453"; pn[7378453] = "7449021,7375095"; // cached usernames pu[0] = guestphrase; pu[58568] = "gunshow"; pu[224609] = "Tech"; pu[250289] = "FusionRedXC60"; pu[88689] = "rogbmw"; pu[200993] = "LRobXC90"; pu[7274] = "jjd416"; pu[75082] = "tarrbot"; pu[263089] = "likeXC90"; pu[267274] = "chowdarygm"; pu[156409] = "MyVolvoS60"; pu[43889] = "GregK"; pu[133833] = "VolvoScott"; pu[301193] = "nbvolks"; pu[219665] = "ADM17"; pu[121225] = "Row57"; pu[166297] = "fyreline"; pu[176569] = "Kh0805"; pu[162713] = "xgman"; pu[298649] = "specepic"; pu[130313] = "Zahra"; pu[290955] = "n a m"; pu[308103] = "MJEWETT"; pu[73659] = "Noonzio"; pu[198321] = "DenverJaguar"; pu[301569] = "rkohou"; pu[148913] = "VTbuckeye"; pu[4120] = "ig_mb"; pu[293607] = "captastic12"; pu[33148] = "inteller"; pu[123985] = "ND40oz"; pu[299285] = "rdr854"; pu[201817] = "VxF"; pu[85993] = "LowlyOilBurner"; pu[127257] = "tanXC90"; pu[152329] = "hankdfw"; pu[303139] = "imolar"; pu[21127] = "volvobuff"; pu[296053] = "aardvarkbark"; pu[43386] = "Tibits"; pu[152993] = "badcyclist"; pu[297147] = "hackR"; pu[94617] = "reeg2"; pu[295439] = "fvultee"; pu[259842] = "Heimdall"; pu[37887] = "RootDKJ"; pu[21510] = "BrianV"; pu[190529] = "Uukonjack"; pu[271210] = "bmt134"; pu[51170] = "eyeloveteeth"; pu[291683] = "amnigo"; pu[47128] = "matt1122"; pu[80084] = "XC90TODD"; pu[9579] = "chillg8r"; pu[16135] = "Clark Haney Wells"; pu[250137] = "kevintinple"; pu[291953] = "justacopilot"; pu[168985] = "stick_shift"; pu[307217] = "briskrisk"; pu[299121] = "Flame Red"; pu[296221] = "Capndirk"; pu[294309] = "DMikey"; pu[295069] = "pbierre"; pu[307421] = "Marco1"; pu[72762] = "DasChupacabra"; pu[287866] = "Sidwin"; pu[304875] = "ManBearPig"; pu[115793] = "UnknownUser"; pu[306983] = "BostonDynasty"; pu[218913] = "krypttic"; pu[246993] = "mookiwan"; pu[40613] = "qaz996"; pu[50271] = "Palisandr"; pu[309657] = "BProperties"; pu[225969] = "huntpsu1"; pu[267178] = "mrhobie"; pu[42610] = "mommere"; pu[296063] = "Strykaar"; pu[162313] = "4stlrfan007"; pu[170993] = "Seti"; pu[191417] = "jiehan"; pu[287666] = "Volvolic"; pu[198905] = "WhoaVolvo"; pu[55790] = "mattlach"; pu[312931] = "mrclemson"; pu[247921] = "Johnrogerxc90"; pu[26964] = "Oceans60R"; pu[114809] = "Iamhives"; pu[286402] = "drmanny3"; pu[312571] = "AJS1KR"; pu[16660] = "beers"; pu[301089] = "Theanimala"; pu[77097] = "Gary-16-Xc90"; pu[303415] = "hitch_hiker"; // -->

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    1. #10
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Aug 2016
      Posts
      955
      I think this is a deal killer for me. Whether my dealer offers this or not. It is the principal of the matter and this still leaves me feeling bad about volvo and my choice to buy my 3rd and now 4th one in the last few years. It just stinks!
      2020 xc60 "Polestar Engineered", crystal white.
      2019 xc40 T5-R Bursting Blue Premium & Advanced Packs.

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