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    1. #351
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      I get what you're saying, but like I said it isn't all about effort. Because of the flat rate system, we have to think about this from an efficiency point of view as well. There's a lot of factors, none of which matter to the customer.

      Unfortunately dealers are afraid to offer us a fair salary, so flat rate isn't going anywhere.

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    3. #352
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      I get what you're saying, but like I said it isn't all about effort. Because of the flat rate system, we have to think about this from an efficiency point of view as well. There's a lot of factors, none of which matter to the customer.

      Unfortunately dealers are afraid to offer us a fair salary, so flat rate isn't going anywhere.
      I don't want to misquote you, but I believe you have indicated that at your shop, you make more with flat rate than if you were salary? So it all depends on the shop's output. A busy shop will definitely benefit the tech if paid per job. A slow shop offers the owner no incentive for salary, because if business doesn't materialize, they're paying techs to sit around.

      So I'm not sure if there's a one size fits all answer on whether salary or flat rate rules.

      How does the salary of a Tesla Tech compare to your flat rate? Not apples to apples here, but an idea I guess.

    4. #353
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      It depends on the salary, of course. I never said I make more on flat rate than I would on salary because I don't know what my salary would be. However, I do know the salary of Tesla techs in my area and I did say I make more on flat rate than they do on salary.

      Dealers are afraid guys will slow down if they are on salary. If I asked them to pay me on salary next year and match what I made this year, they would say no. They want me to hustle to earn every cent.

      If they would match what I made this year, I'd be happy and I wouldn't slow down. But I work with guys who absolutely would slow down.

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    6. #354
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      It depends on the salary, of course. I never said I make more on flat rate than I would on salary because I don't know what my salary would be. However, I do know the salary of Tesla techs in my area and I did say I make more on flat rate than they do on salary.

      Dealers are afraid guys will slow down if they are on salary. If I asked them to pay me on salary next year and match what I made this year, they would say no. They want me to hustle to earn every cent.

      If they would match what I made this year, I'd be happy and I wouldn't slow down. But I work with guys who absolutely would slow down.
      As much as this sounds callous, Dealers view Techs are an input / output asset. If you were salaried, there's no incentive to get cars fixed and out the door ASAP. But if you are paid by the job, you have all the motivation in the world to get repair jobs done efficiently, so that the next customer can have their car worked upon. Sort of a symbiotic relationship since Dealers make money by Volume and so do you.

      https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Tes...9_D_KO6,24.htm

      https://www.paysa.com/salaries/tesla...ice-technician

      Seems Tesla Techs on average make around $60,000 with the upper cusp in the mid 70s? Sounds like quite a hefty salary for a mechanic position.

    7. #355
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      I fully understand why dealers don't want to pay techs salary.

      I don't know how much variance there is with Tesla techs from different areas, I just know their starting rates for various skill levels in my area. Based on what I know in my area, a top guy would start above what Glassdoor says and I'd imagine a top guy with a few years brand experience would be into the 80s.

    8. #356
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      As much as this sounds callous, Dealers view Techs are an input / output asset. If you were salaried, there's no incentive to get cars fixed and out the door ASAP. But if you are paid by the job, you have all the motivation in the world to get repair jobs done efficiently, so that the next customer can have their car worked upon. Sort of a symbiotic relationship since Dealers make money by Volume and so do you.

      https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Tes...9_D_KO6,24.htm

      https://www.paysa.com/salaries/tesla...ice-technician

      Seems Tesla Techs on average make around $60,000 with the upper cusp in the mid 70s? Sounds like quite a hefty salary for a mechanic position.
      Seriously, you think that is a hefty salary for a top mechanic?

      There are a lot of pay schemes between salary and straight commission. For example, som,etching that might be salary plus a bonus on billed output. That is an example that might give incentive to not be lazy but still do whats right and not stress out over every minute.....

      I was paying quality audio service technicians $60,000 back back in the 1990’s.


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    9. #357
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      Quote Originally Posted by rogbmw View Post
      Too bad Volvo does not update over the air.
      They don't? I could have sworn there was a section for this in Sensus settings...

      I haven't had the car long enough to know yet though.

    10. #358
      Junior Member mattlach's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zahra View Post
      I feel that the lack of buttons isn't a safety issue at all, perhaps rather the opposite.
      The things I need to do while driving can be done from the steering wheel or via voice control.
      I'd argue that once you know your car, tactile buttons and knobs are vastly superior to anything touch screen, as you can use them without taking your eyes off the road.

    11. #359
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      Quote Originally Posted by mattlach View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by rogbmw View Post
      Too bad Volvo does not update over the air.
      They don't? I could have sworn there was a section for this in Sensus settings...

      I haven't had the car long enough to know yet though.
      Not modules. Just apps and maps.

    12. #360
      Quote Originally Posted by chillg8r View Post
      Seriously, you think that is a hefty salary for a top mechanic?

      There are a lot of pay schemes between salary and straight commission. For example, som,etching that might be salary plus a bonus on billed output. That is an example that might give incentive to not be lazy but still do whats right and not stress out over every minute.....

      I was paying quality audio service technicians $60,000 back back in the 1990’s.


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      You've got to take into account regional differences in spending power. 60K or 70K in Los Angeles isn't nearly as lucrative as 60 or 70K in rust belt. Money goes much further outside cities like L.A., Chicago, Atlanta, New York City, etc. So 70K for a mechanic is a nice salary in large swaths of America. Wouldn't have expected they would have hit that level on the payscale.

    13. #361
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      A lot of people probably under estimate what we make. We're more than grease monkeys these days.

      For Volvo and from what I know, I would estimate that a new factory trained Volvo technician coming right from the Volvo SAFE training program starts at around $20 an hour. Dealers vary, but most will be on some sort of apprentice program where they are not worrying about flat rate hours. They will also likely get the crappy jobs, making it harder to book hours if they did have to worry about booked hours. But they can take their time to learn. Once they are efficient and can book 40 hours a week, they should see some sort of pay increase. Each guy is different but after two years, they should be able to be Master rated and be more efficient than 40 hours a week if the shop work load allows it. At that time it should be pretty easy to hit $60k a year or more if the shop is busy and they are willing to come early or stay late.

      With enough experience, 6 figures is very realistic.

      No way in hell will a dealer offer a 6 figure salary to a tech, no matter the experience.

    14. #362
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      A lot of people probably under estimate what we make. We're more than grease monkeys these days.

      For Volvo and from what I know, I would estimate that a new factory trained Volvo technician coming right from the Volvo SAFE training program starts at around $20 an hour. Dealers vary, but most will be on some sort of apprentice program where they are not worrying about flat rate hours. They will also likely get the crappy jobs, making it harder to book hours if they did have to worry about booked hours. But they can take their time to learn. Once they are efficient and can book 40 hours a week, they should see some sort of pay increase. Each guy is different but after two years, they should be able to be Master rated and be more efficient than 40 hours a week if the shop work load allows it. At that time it should be pretty easy to hit $60k a year or more if the shop is busy and they are willing to come early or stay late.

      With enough experience, 6 figures is very realistic.

      No way in hell will a dealer offer a 6 figure salary to a tech, no matter the experience.
      Which is why book hours& flat rate benefit you in the end. A 5 hour job by a Master Tech could probably be done in 3.5. So while you're paid for 5, that 1.5 saved through efficiency lets you start on the next job. So the better you get at solving problems and working the solution, the more pay you can take home. Even as you might be able to get 2 jobs done in 5 hours instead of the single job dictated by the book

    15. #363
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      Well aware of that- I do this for a living. Flat rate comes with stress though. And politics in some shops. And encourages guys taking short cuts or rushing jobs.
      Last edited by Tech; 09-21-2019 at 10:16 AM.

    16. #364
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Well aware of that- I do this for a living. Flat rate comes with stress though. And politics in some shops. And encourages guys taking short cuts or rushing jobs.
      Do you get paid again if a customer has to return, because the work wasn't done right or didn't fix the issue? I would think disincentivizing sloppy work by refusing to compensate the tech twice would eliminate the problem?

    17. #365
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      Do you get paid again if a customer has to return, because the work wasn't done right or didn't fix the issue? I would think disincentivizing sloppy work by refusing to compensate the tech twice would eliminate the problem?
      Not to mention losing your job if it happens too often......


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    18. #366
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      There isn't a cut and dry answer. Just because a car comes back doesn't mean it was due to sloppy work. It also depends how much the service manager is involved in such repairs. It gets more complicated too.
      Last edited by Tech; 09-21-2019 at 01:41 PM.

    19. #367
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Sorry to say but Volvo has decided to stop reimbursing dealerships for updating software during services. This means no more free labor to the customer for software. HOWEVER, each dealership is different and may still do it (at the cost of the technicians time AKA free) but its doubtful because Nobody works for free

      NOTE: The software is still free as Volvo promises to its customers, but how do customers plan to get it to their vehicle? Tech's time and VIDA is not free.

      Volvo’s Service 2.0 is the package that we offer to our customers as a complimentary enhancement when they service their Volvo. Service 2.0 consists of the same software that can be found in our PDS or Total Upgrade software. This was developed as a no cost tool to create a differentiator from the independent workshops. Due to low installation of Service 2.0 it was determined in March 2018 Customer Service would compensate dealers in the U.S. for their labor to grow installation rates in an effort to increase customer retention and lower warranty expense for Volvo Cars USA.

      However, after careful analysis VCUSA has determined there has not been adequate upside to service retention or customer satisfaction as a result of this goodwill. To date, less than half of the cars eligible for the upgrade are getting it. In addition, we will be removing Complimentary Software updates from our suite of customer promises under the Service by Volvo umbrella. Effective August 1, 2019 Volvo Car USA will cease labor reimbursement associated with the complimentary Service 2.0 software update.


      I have no more specifics, just personal opinions/disappointment/anger!!!!

      Email VCUSA with your displeasure of broken promises and poor customer support
      I was chatting with an attorney friend, he said we could file a class lawsuit against Volvo, and he has connections that might be interested in helping with such as case.

      Does anyone have any written proof that Volvo ever promised lifetime software update as a selling point? That would be something very critical on court. Please share a link or PM me if you do. Thank you so much.

    20. #368
      For what it's worth, I had my 2016 XC90 upgraded to 2.0 software at Herb Chambers Volvo Norwood at no cost and no questions asked

    21. #369
      Quote Originally Posted by mrclemson View Post
      I was chatting with an attorney friend, he said we could file a class lawsuit against Volvo, and he has connections that might be interested in helping with such as case.

      Does anyone have any written proof that Volvo ever promised lifetime software update as a selling point? That would be something very critical on court. Please share a link or PM me if you do. Thank you so much.
      Attorneys love class actions. They make money hand over fist while members get pittance....

      I'm not an attorney but as a layman, this is an uphill batter:

      A. Volvo IS NOT discontinuing lifetime updates. They are merely telling dealers that Volvo Corporate will no longer pay for these updates to be installed. So its a dealer by dealer decision on whether to continue providing updates or discontinue them for free.

      B.. I have seen no literature guaranteeing lifetime updates. Only the promise of updates but never specifying this program is without limits: Therefore, I think Volvo is free to cancel this at any time.

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    22. #370
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      Quote Originally Posted by mrclemson View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Sorry to say but Volvo has decided to stop reimbursing dealerships for updating software during services. This means no more free labor to the customer for software. HOWEVER, each dealership is different and may still do it (at the cost of the technicians time AKA free) but its doubtful because Nobody works for free <img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/thumb_down.gif" border="0" alt="" title="thumbdown" class="inlineimg" />

      NOTE: The software is still free as Volvo promises to its customers, but how do customers plan to get it to their vehicle? Tech's time and VIDA is not free.

      Volvo’s Service 2.0 is the package that we offer to our customers as a complimentary enhancement when they service their Volvo. Service 2.0 consists of the same software that can be found in our PDS or Total Upgrade software. This was developed as a no cost tool to create a differentiator from the independent workshops. Due to low installation of Service 2.0 it was determined in March 2018 Customer Service would compensate dealers in the U.S. for their labor to grow installation rates in an effort to increase customer retention and lower warranty expense for Volvo Cars USA.

      However, after careful analysis VCUSA has determined there has not been adequate upside to service retention or customer satisfaction as a result of this goodwill. To date, less than half of the cars eligible for the upgrade are getting it. In addition, we will be removing Complimentary Software updates from our suite of customer promises under the Service by Volvo umbrella. Effective August 1, 2019 Volvo Car USA will cease labor reimbursement associated with the complimentary Service 2.0 software update.


      I have no more specifics, just personal opinions/disappointment/anger!!!!

      Email VCUSA with your displeasure of broken promises and poor customer support
      I was chatting with an attorney friend, he said we could file a class lawsuit against Volvo, and he has connections that might be interested in helping with such as case.

      Does anyone have any written proof that Volvo ever promised lifetime software update as a selling point? That would be something very critical on court. Please share a link or PM me if you do. Thank you so much.
      Guys. Software is "free". Re-embursing a retailer for the relative time to install it is what this is all about.

      Let's do a reality check about a leaked internal communication that is being taken incredibly out of context... Is not the great basis for a consumer class action IMHO. It's no Android Auto situation...

      As we have seen countless reports of in this thread, some retailers do not pass on costs to customers. Some retailers are better at software processes than others, other ways that allow parallel downloads to not affect or consumer service bays.. each retailer is a franchise and able to set their own policies for paying techs.

      It's not cut and dry, Volvo screwing the consumer... As being depicted here.

    23. #371
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      Quote Originally Posted by WhoaVolvo View Post
      Guys. Software is "free". Re-embursing a retailer for the relative time to install it is what this is all about.

      Let's do a reality check about a leaked internal communication that is being taken incredibly out of context... Is not the great basis for a consumer class action IMHO. It's no Android Auto situation...

      As we have seen countless reports of in this thread, some retailers do not pass on costs to customers. Some retailers are better at software processes than others, other ways that allow parallel downloads to not affect or consumer service bays.. each retailer is a franchise and able to set their own policies for paying techs.

      It's not cut and dry, Volvo screwing the consumer... As being depicted here.
      The voice of reason, thank you.

      I'll push for a free update at our final free service (30k), after that I won't be shocked if we're asked to pay for it. If there's a fee I'll likely decline the update since the changes are very incremental.
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    24. #372
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      Just had my 2018 xc90 in for the 2 year service at Gorges Volvo (always a great dealer) in Omaha, Ne. The are providing free software updates to their customers still under warranty. They explained that the free updates are strictly the choice of each dealer.

    25. #373
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      after going rounds with the dealer and VCNA, I'm ready to start a class action if any legal beagles want to represent. It's a clear case of estoppel at this point. I would say anyone who bought one between 2016 and 2019 have a clear case that complimentary software updates factored into the buying decision.
      Last edited by inteller; 10-21-2019 at 10:25 PM.
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    26. #374
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      Quote Originally Posted by inteller View Post
      after going rounds with the dealer and VCNA, I'm ready to start a class action if any legal beagles want to represent. It's a clear case of estoppel at this point. I would say anyone who bought one between 2016 and 2019 have a clear case that complimentary software updates factored into the buying decision.
      Volvo still provides the upgraded software 2.0 AT NO COST. Volvo is just not reimbursing dealers for a labor claim. Dealers are free to do any 2.0 software that is available, they just won't be paid the .5hr of labor they were previously reimbursing. So the software is still free but someone will have to pay the labor for installation be it the franchise dealer or the customer. So your idea of suing Volvo for still providing free software will go NOWHERE. And if its under warranty or CPO it can be done at zero cost for everyone, you just need a complaint like the screen is slow to respond (most are anyway) but that's for another thread discussion.
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    27. #375
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      Quote Originally Posted by Oceans60R View Post
      Volvo still provides the upgraded software 2.0 AT NO COST. Volvo is just not reimbursing dealers for a labor claim. Dealers are free to do any 2.0 software that is available, they just won't be paid the .5hr of labor they were previously reimbursing. So the software is still free but someone will have to pay the labor for installation be it the franchise dealer or the customer. So your idea of suing Volvo for still providing free software will go NOWHERE. And if its under warranty or CPO it can be done at zero cost for everyone, you just need a complaint like the screen is slow to respond (most are anyway) but that's for another thread discussion.
      In the US dealers are the face of Volvo and if the dealers aren't doing it for free then Volvo isn't doing it for free.
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    28. #376
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      Quote Originally Posted by inteller View Post
      after going rounds with the dealer and VCNA, I'm ready to start a class action if any legal beagles want to represent. It's a clear case of estoppel at this point. I would say anyone who bought one between 2016 and 2019 have a clear case that complimentary software updates factored into the buying decision.
      Good luck with that
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    29. #377
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      “Complimentary Software Updates” (see screenshots posted above) means Software updates at no charge to me......I don’t give a rats behind about how dealers get compensated by Volvo, that is between them and the dealer. What is between me and the dealer are the promises we made to each other when I bought the car. I promised to pay for the car and they promised “complimentary” Software updates......If my dealer doesn’t live up to their promise then I’ll know that their word is no good. Its as simple as that. If they want to lose a future customer over that then so be it, but I don’t think they are that stupid...we’ll see when my next service comes up at the end of the year.


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    30. #378
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      Quote Originally Posted by chillg8r View Post
      “Complimentary Software Updates” (see screenshots posted above) means Software updates at no charge to me......I don’t give a rats behind about how dealers get compensated by Volvo, that is between them and the dealer. What is between me and the dealer are the promises we made to each other when I bought the car. I promised to pay for the car and they promised “complimentary” Software updates......If my dealer doesn’t live up to their promise then I’ll know that their word is no good. Its as simple as that. If they want to lose a future customer over that then so be it, but I don’t think they are that stupid...we’ll see when my next service comes up at the end of the year.


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      Trust me, this is what your dealer and service department will be doing on your "threats"
      You will not be missed I can assure you.

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      Last edited by Oceans60R; 10-24-2019 at 07:27 PM.
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    31. #379
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      Quote Originally Posted by Oceans60R View Post
      Trust me, this is what your dealer and service department will be doing on your "threats"
      You will not be missed I can assure you.

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      I think my dealership is smarter than that. We’ll see. I don’t believe I’ll have to “threaten” them, I’ll just show them the promise they made me, I think they’ll keep their word.


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    32. #380
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      I should probably create a new thread, but I'll just post this information here.

      As of today, Volvo has a new policy for the Service 2.0 software update.

      Program Eligibility & Parameters

      · Dealers must have VIDA Wi-Fi installed to be eligible for reimbursement.

      · The program will be effective from November 1, 2019 – December 31, 2020.

      · Service 2.0 must be performed with a scheduled maintenance service .

      · Reimbursement is for labor only, software is delivered at no charge.

      · Retailers will be reimbursed for ONE Service 2.0 software update per vehicle within a 12 month period.

      · Punch time is not required for software downloads and Factory Scheduled Maintenance claims.

      · Service 2.0 is only applicable to SPA and CMA vehicles. (P3 vehicles are excluded)

      · Can be performed 1 time during the course of the program when performing a scheduled maintenance service.

      · Vehicle inquiry must be checked prior to performing to confirm vehicle eligibility.

      · Software 2.0 is not claimable with a workshop visit performed as a result of a customer complaint and/or when a total upgrade is claimed to address a customer concern.

      · Service 2.0 does not replace PDS Software and cannot be claimed prior to the customer taking new car delivery.

      · Service 2.0 can be installed during the reconditioning/inspection process outlined within the Certified by Volvo program guidelines.
      Last edited by Tech; 11-08-2019 at 02:54 PM.

    33. #381
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      Lol, well that's even more bull**** since they have advertised service 2.0 before SPA cars.

      God damn volvo you have ****ed this all up.

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      I think this is good news. But how do people interpret this item:

      "Software 2.0 is not claimable with a workshop visit performed as a result of a customer complaint and/or when a total upgrade is claimed to address a customer concern"

      Is that just saying that a software update would be covered in the case of a warranty claim that required it OR under the new Service 2.0 policy and not both (ie trying to avoid dealers trying to get double payments)?

      Also, do all dealers have VIDA Wifi? (surely a wired connection would be faster?)
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    35. #383
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      Quote Originally Posted by inteller View Post
      Lol, well that's even more bull**** since they have advertised service 2.0 before SPA cars.

      God damn volvo you have ****ed this all up.

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      The P3's have likely been updated already. They didn't have updates nearly as often as SPA. They also rarely had any updates with noticeable changes.


      Quote Originally Posted by Iamhives View Post
      I think this is good news. But how do people interpret this item:

      "Software 2.0 is not claimable with a workshop visit performed as a result of a customer complaint and/or when a total upgrade is claimed to address a customer concern"

      Is that just saying that a software update would be covered in the case of a warranty claim that required it OR under the new Service 2.0 policy and not both (ie trying to avoid dealers trying to get double payments)?

      Also, do all dealers have VIDA Wifi? (surely a wired connection would be faster?)
      That is correct. If you bring your car in for a 40k and a complaint for a lagging screen for example, then we would perform the Total Upgrade and be reimbursed that way.

      Not sure if all dealers have VIDA WiFi. I'd bet a majority do but I don't know for a fact how many.
      Last edited by Tech; 11-06-2019 at 10:43 PM.

    36. #384
      Member
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      I guess the end time is Dec 31 2020? Then Old SPA software will stop to be developed and all new models will get OTA update?

      Well, god bless our cars not to have random software glitches after 2020.

      Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk
      Rolling, Fusion Red - 2018 XC60 - T8
      Running to retire, 2000 V70XC 234+k miles

    37. #385
      Junior Member RootDKJ's Avatar
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      Thanks for the update Tech.
      2019 Bursting Blue XC60 R-Design T8
      | 21" Wheels | Exterior Style Kit | Advanced | 4C Air | B & W | CPO 10yr/Unlimited |
      2010 Maple Red XC60 T6 retired at 173,375 miles

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