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    1. #246
      Member GregK's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by UnknownUser View Post
      Wow. Yeah, not what I signed up for considering half of the issues with this car have been software-related. Since new features are seldom added, if my dealer tries to charge me for a software update for their buggy platform, consider this my last Volvo. Not to be overly dramatic, but "complimentary software updates" didn't come with an asterisk.

      They should re-analyze their data and conclusions-- while free software updates might not impact customer retention or satisfaction positively, making them paid will impact it negatively without a doubt.
      Yep....what he said. Tesla is looking better and better as a future option.......
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    3. #247
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      I really don't think this will be as big of a deal.

      While in warranty, if you have a complaint that software fixes then you'll get the update. This is at any visit, not just maintenance services.

      Outside of warranty, if you are bringing you car to the dealer and buying their maintenance service, which is likely overpriced, I can't see a dealership not absorbing the relatively small cost to update the software at that time.

      If you are out of warranty and there is an issue that may be solved with a software update, then this changes nothing. It wasn't free before either.

    4. #248
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      Quote Originally Posted by GregK View Post
      Yep....what he said. Tesla is looking better and better as a future option.......
      Do people really buy cars because of the manufacturer providing free software updates?? I can tell you that when I buy a car the 'free' stuff a dealer offers either at the time of sale, or can offer afterwards, is way down the bottom of my 'want' list!!
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    6. #249
      Member chillg8r's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Noonzio View Post
      Do people really buy cars because of the manufacturer providing free software updates?? I can tell you that when I buy a car the 'free' stuff a dealer offers either at the time of sale, or can offer afterwards, is way down the bottom of my 'want' list!!
      It matters now more than ever because weíre driving computers with wheels now.....ALL computers have bugs and need updating, charging us to update to fix the bugs will cost them business, imo.


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    7. #250
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      Quote Originally Posted by chillg8r View Post
      It matters now more than ever because weíre driving computers with wheels now.....ALL computers have bugs and need updating, charging us to update to fix the bugs will cost them business, imo.


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      Any of the software updates that I've had done since I bought the car have not fixed any bugs or improved anything to do with either the performance of the car or the Sensus system. I had PA2 and some other software additions installed for additional functionality (Cross Traffic Mitigation Assistance, etc.) and paid for them.
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    8. #251
      Member chillg8r's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Noonzio View Post
      Any of the software updates that I've had done since I bought the car have not fixed any bugs or improved anything to do with either the performance of the car or the Sensus system. I had PA2 and some other software additions installed for additional functionality (Cross Traffic Mitigation Assistance, etc.) and paid for them.
      Almost every software update Iíve received has made the OS run less glitchy, more smoothly


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    9. #252
      Member ig_mb's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Noonzio View Post
      Any of the software updates that I've had done since I bought the car have not fixed any bugs...
      ...that you know of.

      Bugs, by their very nature, do not always present themselves. Often, a particular sequence of events needs to happen.
      Cars, being a very noisy electrical environment, can often throw curveballs on sensors under specific circumstances.
      And that is without considering glitchy failures on the sensors themselves or the connections to those sensors.

      Finally, there is always the possibility that some of the bugs are security related, as in preventing bad guys from remotely accessing the systems in the car. After all, this is a computer hardwired to the internet and you have zero control over the firewall.

    10. #253
      Quote Originally Posted by ig_mb View Post
      ...that you know of.

      Bugs, by their very nature, do not always present themselves. Often, a particular sequence of events needs to happen.
      Cars, being a very noisy electrical environment, can often throw curveballs on sensors under specific circumstances.
      And that is without considering glitchy failures on the sensors themselves or the connections to those sensors.

      Finally, there is always the possibility that some of the bugs are security related, as in preventing bad guys from remotely accessing the systems in the car. After all, this is a computer hardwired to the internet and you have zero control over the firewall.
      Someone I knew did a doctorate on the vulnerability of connected cars. The issues resolved by software update may not always be outwardly apparent, as pointed out. What happens if one's vehicle is connected to the internet and someone is able to gain control? Sounds Orwellian, but anything with internet is potentially exposed.

      Heck, look at key fobs, the signals can be cloned and a car stolen.

      People who think software is only for "fixes" obviously knows little about information technology and security.

    11. #254
      Member GregK's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Noonzio View Post
      Do people really buy cars because of the manufacturer providing free software updates?? I can tell you that when I buy a car the 'free' stuff a dealer offers either at the time of sale, or can offer afterwards, is way down the bottom of my 'want' list!!
      Agreed....updates are just one of many, many reasons I would consider other non Volvo options when purchasing a car. Over-the-Air (OTA) programing, continuous, free updates sounds very appealing to most consumers!
      Last edited by GregK; 08-09-2019 at 10:44 AM.
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    12. #255
      1. What is the latest version for the XC90?

      2. How do I find the version running on my vehicle?

    13. #256
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      Quote Originally Posted by BostonDynasty View Post
      1. What is the latest version for the XC90?

      2. How do I find the version running on my vehicle?
      The most recent update was made available this May. If you see a software update on a most recent invoice after May, then you have the update.

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    14. #257
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      The most recent update was made available this May. If you see a software update on a most recent invoice after May, then you have the update.

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      Actually, I think something was released in June or July that optimized the AWD, Transmission, and Engine management.
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    15. #258
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      May was the last big update. There was one in July and another small one within the last couple days.

    16. #259
      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by BostonDynasty View Post
      1. What is the latest version for the XC90?

      2. How do I find the version running on my vehicle?
      The most recent update was made available this May. If you see a software update on a most recent invoice after May, then you have the update.

      Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk
      Not trying to be rude here, but your post doesn’t answer either of my questions.

      I purchased my XC90 in May, so I am trying to figure out what the version number is for the software update and where in my settings I can find my version.

      I don’t have an invoice to look for a software update and knowing it came out in May is not helpful to me.

    17. #260
      Junior Member mookiwan's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by BostonDynasty View Post
      Not trying to be rude here, but your post doesnít answer either of my questions.

      I purchased my XC90 in May, so I am trying to figure out what the version number is for the software update and where in my settings I can find my version.

      I donít have an invoice to look for a software update and knowing it came out in May is not helpful to me.
      Read the forum on the May update. There is no way to tell what version you have without VIDA. But there are little indicators you can see. The big one in May was the start stop icon no longer says ďreadyĒ but uses an icon on the speedometer.


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    18. #261
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      Quote Originally Posted by BostonDynasty View Post
      Not trying to be rude here, but your post doesnít answer either of my questions.

      I purchased my XC90 in May, so I am trying to figure out what the version number is for the software update and where in my settings I can find my version.

      I donít have an invoice to look for a software update and knowing it came out in May is not helpful to me.
      The answer to your question is no version number we could get to know. But this answer doesn't help. Supposedly your dealer got the latest update at delivery. Depends on the date it could be the latest May update.

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      Last edited by FusionRedXC60; 08-09-2019 at 08:06 AM.
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    19. #262
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      Quote Originally Posted by BostonDynasty View Post
      Not trying to be rude here, but your post doesnít answer either of my questions.

      I purchased my XC90 in May, so I am trying to figure out what the version number is for the software update and where in my settings I can find my version.

      I donít have an invoice to look for a software update and knowing it came out in May is not helpful to me.
      Unfortunately, there is no way to view what version software we are running. Itís not like Tesla, where you can see youíre running 2019.4.1234.1837474&5 or whatever.
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    20. #263
      Quote Originally Posted by LowlyOilBurner View Post
      Unfortunately, there is no way to view what version software we are running. Itís not like Tesla, where you can see youíre running 2019.4.1234.1837474&5 or whatever.
      I have the Polestar upgrade and I read that the new update would show "Polestar" as a drive mode option, but I still don't see that. I was told that I had the latest software when I picked up the car, so I don't know who to believe and if I can't check the version myself, then finding the answer isn't as easy as I had hoped.

    21. #264
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      Quote Originally Posted by BostonDynasty View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by LowlyOilBurner View Post
      Unfortunately, there is no way to view what version software we are running. It’s not like Tesla, where you can see you’re running 2019.4.1234.1837474&5 or whatever.
      I have the Polestar upgrade and I read that the new update would show "Polestar" as a drive mode option, but I still don't see that. I was told that I had the latest software when I picked up the car, so I don't know who to believe and if I can't check the version myself, then finding the answer isn't as easy as I had hoped.
      16-18 won't see it as an option. Select Dynamic and you should see Polestar on the tech.
      Last edited by Tech; 08-09-2019 at 09:44 PM.

    22. #265
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      Someone I knew did a doctorate on the vulnerability of connected cars. The issues resolved by software update may not always be outwardly apparent, as pointed out. What happens if one's vehicle is connected to the internet and someone is able to gain control? Sounds Orwellian, but anything with internet is potentially exposed.

      Heck, look at key fobs, the signals can be cloned and a car stolen.

      People who think software is only for "fixes" obviously knows little about information technology and security.
      I always look forward to the little lectures that you give out - they're fantastic. I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if I'd got none of the software updates done, my car would still be running just fine, wouldn't it? And you are correct - I am so dumb that I know very little about either information technology (is that what IT stands for?) or security.
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    23. #266
      Quote Originally Posted by Noonzio View Post
      I always look forward to the little lectures that you give out - they're fantastic. I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if I'd got none of the software updates done, my car would still be running just fine, wouldn't it? And you are correct - I am so dumb that I know very little about either information technology (is that what IT stands for?) or security.
      Did I reply to any of your comments, no? Someone feeling self conscience and insecure? Apparently.

      Your car may be running fine, just like a windows laptop never set to install updates. Doesn't change the fact that the system is insecure because no updates or patches have been applied to fix potential vulnerabilities or glitches.
      Last edited by MyVolvoS60; 08-09-2019 at 02:26 PM.

    24. #267
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Then you either don't have Polestar or don't have the May update.

      Edit: I ran the VIN of another member who said he does not see the Polestar mode. I confirmed he does have Polestar as well as the latest software. I'm wondering if they changes Dynamic back in one of the updates since the May one.
      Maybe for some old cars MY2017 the text is not changed? For MY2019 I believe the text should be changed.

      Another visible thing is the auto stop/start icon versus old "READY" text on the "RPM" dial.

      Quote Originally Posted by BostonDynasty View Post
      I have the Polestar upgrade and I read that the new update would show "Polestar" as a drive mode option, but I still don't see that. I was told that I had the latest software when I picked up the car, so I don't know who to believe and if I can't check the version myself, then finding the answer isn't as easy as I had hoped.
      It still depends on the date of pre-delivery prep as we don't know which date the May update became available in VIDA to dealers.
      Last edited by Paradox; 08-10-2019 at 07:19 AM. Reason: merged 2 consecutive posts, learn to use multi quote you're on here often enough to take the time to do so
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    25. #268
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Then you either don't have Polestar or don't have the May update.

      Edit: I ran the VIN of another member who said he does not see the Polestar mode. I confirmed he does have Polestar as well as the latest software. I'm wondering if they changes Dynamic back in one of the updates since the May one.
      Maybe for some old cars MY2017 the text is not changed? For MY2019 I believe the text should be changed.

      Another visible thing is the auto stop/start icon versus old "READY" text on the "RPM" dial.
      The updated Start/Stop icon on the tech is a sure sign the May update is in the car (if not a T8). The approach lighting is another way to check. It changed from 30 seconds to 120 seconds.

      I know I had posted this elsewhere on here before but it may help here:

      MY 2019 and 2020 will have the text in both IHU and DIM.
      MY 2016-MY 2018, there is only a change in the DIM today.
      MY 2016-MY 2018, the IHU text will be available in an upcoming software release.

      So if you have a 2016, the Drive Mode will still say Dynamic. If you select it, it should show up as Polestar on the tach.
      Last edited by Tech; 08-09-2019 at 04:03 PM.

    26. #269
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      I really don't think this will be as big of a deal.

      While in warranty, if you have a complaint that software fixes then you'll get the update. This is at any visit, not just maintenance services.

      Outside of warranty, if you are bringing you car to the dealer and buying their maintenance service, which is likely overpriced, I can't see a dealership not absorbing the relatively small cost to update the software at that time.

      If you are out of warranty and there is an issue that may be solved with a software update, then this changes nothing. It wasn't free before either.

      I am pretty sure this has been said numerous times but worth repeating.


      NOW HERE IS THE GOOD STUFF:

      Volvo "strongly encourages we continue updating SW during services". They are strongly encouraging we work for free?

      China owned company that use to pay us to perform a specific job will no longer pay us to perform the job but encourages us to continue and do it for free.

      We are paid based off billable hours and SW was billable at 1/2 hour.

      Employers in the United States must pay employees for all hours worked and cannot force workers to labor without receiving minimum compensation set by federal or state law. An employer cannot sanction, discriminate against or fire an employee for not working without pay.
      Last edited by gunshow; 08-09-2019 at 04:58 PM.
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    27. #270
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      Did I reply to any of your comments, no? Someone feeling self conscience and insecure? Apparently.

      Your car may be running fine, just like a windows laptop never set to install updates. Doesn't change the fact that the system is insecure because no updates or patches have been applied to fix potential vulnerabilities or glitches.
      I've said it many times before, but I'll say it again - you sir, are an idiot
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    28. #271
      Quote Originally Posted by Noonzio View Post
      I've said it many times before, but I'll say it again - you sir, are an idiot
      ......Sigh, they card at bars. They card at movies....And sadly, the internet allows trolls to enter without any ID.

      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      I am pretty sure this has been said numerous times but worth repeating.


      NOW HERE IS THE GOOD STUFF:

      Volvo "strongly encourages we continue updating SW during services". They are strongly encouraging we work for free?

      China owned company that use to pay us to perform a specific job will no longer pay us to perform the job but encourages us to continue and do it for free.

      We are paid based off billable hours and SW was billable at 1/2 hour.

      Employers in the United States must pay employees for all hours worked and cannot force workers to labor without receiving minimum compensation set by federal or state law. An employer cannot sanction, discriminate against or fire an employee for not working without pay.
      Which is why you can respectfully decline to do the work if not paid. Rent, Lights, Food, don't buy themselves on generosity and kindness. Everyone has a right to make a living, and if the dealer doesn't assume the cost, then customers are going to be left in the dark.

      Huge bummer, but it's not your fault or the dealer's. This rests squarely on Volvo Corporate shoulders.

      FYI: If Volvo had integrity, they would make the change going forward, not retroactive.

      I didn't lose my 7 yr CPO when Volvo nixed the program to 5 yrs / unlimited Miles. I don't lose the benefits of my Prepaid Maintenance even though Volvo made changes and the dealers have tried limiting wipers. (New Contracts Limit 1 Wiper / yr + 2 Lifetime Set of Brakes + Rotors). I have my contract where there were no exclusions on Brakes / Pads / Wipers. Not that I've needed Brakes or Pads.

      When I bought my car, I got "free software updates"....

      Course, Volvo gladly wants to renege and fine. Be petty and screw customers. Because, yes you can here, I'm sure there was an asterisk allowing this program to be terminated at any time.

      But remember, customers are the ones that drive a company, and remember how they were treated. As do employees (you).
      Last edited by Paradox; 08-10-2019 at 07:19 AM. Reason: merged 2 consecutive posts, use multi quote

    29. #272
      Member ig_mb's Avatar
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      I know I'm stepping on a landmine but:

      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Volvo "strongly encourages we continue updating SW during services".
      does not necessarily mean

      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      They are strongly encouraging we work for free?

      Volvo wants people to update their SW but they just don't want to foot the bill anymore.
      They probably expect that the cost will be passed on to the customers because Volvo cannot expect anyone to work for free.


      If the update operation was a trivial operation requiring no babysitting with essentially 0 chance of failure, we probably wouldn't have this discussion because it could be done while other things were done (eg, while changing the oil or rotating tires, etc). Unfortunately, Volvo has not improved the update operation is still hard to do and incredibly fragile.

      If our company shipped products like that, we would be out of business faster than you can say what.

    30. #273
      Junior Member mookiwan's Avatar
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      I am on the side of the techs on this one... no one should be forced to work for free. But I had an interesting thought. I am not really familiar with how the paying structure works but letís say the 10,000 mile service pays a tech 2hr plus the software upgrade pays 0.5hr. Now letís say Volvo now includes the SW upgrade in the 10,000 mile service procedure and techs get paid the same 2hr and is expected to do it? Not saying itís right but could something like that happen?


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    31. #274
      Quote Originally Posted by mookiwan View Post
      I am on the side of the techs on this one... no one should be forced to work for free. But I had an interesting thought. I am not really familiar with how the paying structure works but letís say the 10,000 mile service pays a tech 2hr plus the software upgrade pays 0.5hr. Now letís say Volvo now includes the SW upgrade in the 10,000 mile service procedure and techs get paid the same 2hr and is expected to do it? Not saying itís right but could something like that happen?


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      Not happening. Techs aren't paid flat rate, but by book hours. Gunshow gave example that under warranty, a job might take 16 hours, but he's only paid 12. I doubt techs are going to stand for a further discount of their labor rate. I.E Bundling Software updates into the 10, 20, and 30K complimentary Maintenance.

      Of course, software updates are still given if they are necessary to fix a warranty issue instead of updates or upgrades for the sake of having the newest software.

    32. #275
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      Quote Originally Posted by ig_mb View Post
      I know I'm stepping on a landmine but:

      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Volvo "strongly encourages we continue updating SW during services".
      does not necessarily mean

      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      They are strongly encouraging we work for free?

      Volvo wants people to update their SW but they just don't want to foot the bill anymore.
      They probably expect that the cost will be passed on to the customers because Volvo cannot expect anyone to work for free.
      The exact wording is in post 236. They encourage it to be free for customers.

      Quote Originally Posted by mookiwan View Post
      I am on the side of the techs on this one... no one should be forced to work for free. But I had an interesting thought. I am not really familiar with how the paying structure works but letís say the 10,000 mile service pays a tech 2hr plus the software upgrade pays 0.5hr. Now letís say Volvo now includes the SW upgrade in the 10,000 mile service procedure and techs get paid the same 2hr and is expected to do it? Not saying itís right but could something like that happen?


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      See post 119.

      I think it's time to close this thread. It's going in circles.

      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post

      Techs aren't paid flat rate, but by book hours.
      Flat rate is book time.
      Last edited by Paradox; 08-10-2019 at 07:18 AM. Reason: merged 3 consecutive posts, use multi quote

    33. #276
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      I am pretty sure this has been said numerous times but worth repeating.


      NOW HERE IS THE GOOD STUFF:

      Volvo "strongly encourages we continue updating SW during services". They are strongly encouraging we work for free?

      China owned company that use to pay us to perform a specific job will no longer pay us to perform the job but encourages us to continue and do it for free.

      We are paid based off billable hours and SW was billable at 1/2 hour.

      Employers in the United States must pay employees for all hours worked and cannot force workers to labor without receiving minimum compensation set by federal or state law. An employer cannot sanction, discriminate against or fire an employee for not working without pay.
      It's about time this stuff got brought here. I am Volvo Master Certified but I left my Volvo dealership over a year ago for reasons that are almost exactly those you have listed in this thread. The first time I replaced pistons on a Drive-e for 11 hours, I pointed out to the aftersales market manager that cylinder head R&R pays 7.6 (or so) under warranty, balance shaft R&R pays 4.5 (or so) under warranty and a tech has to do both of these before he even gets the pistons out of the engine and swaps them on the connecting rods. I told him the labor they pay for this job buys a hack with hammer and impact wrench, not a technician with torque wrenches and the skill to put the engine back together correctly the first time.

      I now wrench for a domestic brand and am very happy. The cars break a lot and there's a lot of them on the road, so I have all the work I desire. I hated to leave my Volvo dealer but I was fed up with some of the ridiculous low warranty time and Volvo "encouraging" techs to work for free in the name of customer satisfaction.
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    34. #277
      Member reeg2's Avatar
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      This whole topic is made murkier by the asinine way that dealers charge for services.

      You pay 3 hours for a 30 minute job, so that a 3 hour job that doesn't go well doesn't have to charge 5 hours.
      Everyone loses.
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    35. #278
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      Quote Originally Posted by reeg2 View Post
      This whole topic is made murkier by the asinine way that dealers charge for services.

      You pay 3 hours for a 30 minute job, so that a 3 hour job that doesn't go well doesn't have to charge 5 hours.
      Everyone loses.
      It's not just dealers, it's pretty much the entire American auto repair industry.

      I could probably write a dissertation on the flat rate pay system but I will not. Just read what the techs in this thread have said. You can rest assured their comments are merely the tip of the iceberg.
      2007 S40 T5

    36. #279
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      Quote Originally Posted by reeg2 View Post
      This whole topic is made murkier by the asinine way that dealers charge for services.

      You pay 3 hours for a 30 minute job, so that a 3 hour job that doesn't go well doesn't have to charge 5 hours.
      Everyone loses.
      If you are referring to my timing belt example, you pay 3 hours for a job a time guide says should take 3 hours. The first timing belt I did took much longer than 30 minutes. My experience and tools help me be more efficient. I shouldn't have to charge less because I have done the job many, many times and I am efficient.

      I am efficient because I choose to be. I work with guys who get a 3 hour job and look at it like "Alright, I'm covered for the next 3 hours. Time for a smoke break"

      This could really derail the thread even more. If someone wants to discuss flat rate in a new thread in Off Topic I'd be happy to give more of my opinion and perspective.

    37. #280
      Quote Originally Posted by qaz996 View Post
      It's not just dealers, it's pretty much the entire American auto repair industry.

      I could probably write a dissertation on the flat rate pay system but I will not. Just read what the techs in this thread have said. You can rest assured their comments are merely the tip of the iceberg.
      Tech has said he makes more with flat rate than if her were salaried as Tesla does. I imagine most techs only start to make good money if they can become so efficient that a 3 hr book job takes 1 hr or less. In that volume pays well for those who are efficient.

      Of course, shortchanging on an engine job is plain stupid. I imagine if the job is rushed and something gets put together wrong, you guys get docked. Making that "5 or 6 hours you got short changed" look paltry by having to redo whatever.
      Last edited by MyVolvoS60; 08-10-2019 at 11:49 PM.

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