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    1. #71
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      I think this is a deal killer for me. Whether my dealer offers this or not. It is the principal of the matter and this still leaves me feeling bad about volvo and my choice to buy my 3rd and now 4th one in the last few years. It just stinks!
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    3. #72
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Email Volvo and tell them. Let them know (not us) that you'll consider another brand because of their penny pinching and broken promises.

      My general manager cant do anything. My service manager cant do a thing. I can email Volvo warranty through TIE but i'll get the usual Bullsh*t reply of "we'll send this to Sweden for analysis".
      I appreciate your usual updates regarding software releases, etc.

      That said, I think it may have been a mistake to release this VCUSA->dealer network notice. You may have riled up customers unnecessarily, and I'm guessing that might be frowned upon. I understand your frustration around being compensated for your time doing SW updates, but if I were VCUSA and I saw that a Volvo employee (via an associated dealer) was potentially misconstruing non-public info to get customers angry with the brand, I'd be unhappy.

    4. #73
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      That said, I think it may have been a mistake to release this VCUSA->dealer network notice. You may have riled up customers unnecessarily, and I'm guessing that might be frowned upon. I understand your frustration around being compensated for your time doing SW updates, but if I were VCUSA and I saw that a Volvo employee (via an associated dealer) was potentially misconstruing non-public info to get customers angry with the brand, I'd be unhappy.
      Volvo’s Service 2.0 is the package that we offer to our customers as a complimentary enhancement when they service their Volvo. Service 2.0 consists of the same software that can be found in our PDS or Total Upgrade software. This was developed as a no cost tool to create a differentiator from the independent workshops. Due to low installation of Service 2.0 it was determined in March 2018 Customer Service would compensate dealers in the U.S. for their labor to grow installation rates in an effort to increase customer retention and lower warranty expense for Volvo Cars USA.



      However, after careful analysis VCUSA has determined there has not been adequate upside to service retention or customer satisfaction as a result of this goodwill. To date, less than half of the cars eligible for the upgrade are getting it. In addition, we will be removing Complimentary Software updates from our suite of customer promises under the Service by Volvo umbrella. Effective August 1, 2019 Volvo Car USA will cease labor reimbursement associated with the complimentary Service 2.0 software update.



      "potentially misconstruing"? I posted their exact words. There is no mistake, misconstruing, or falsehoods being spread. They dont tell you and make us, the dealer, tell you so your anger is misplaced on us and not them. Its the politics in the automotive world. Some people are dumb enough to get mad at me/the dealership and then buy a volvo from another dealer so the compnay still wins.


      This is fact per Volvo's dealer notification.

      I hope you all get angry and email them. This is my intent. Tell them you are pissed and why. It is time they listen to customers and techs otherwise they wont have either.
      Last edited by gunshow; 07-31-2019 at 02:44 PM.
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    6. #74
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      Quote Originally Posted by nbvolks View Post
      I appreciate your usual updates regarding software releases, etc.

      That said, I think it may have been a mistake to release this VCUSA->dealer network notice. You may have riled up customers unnecessarily, and I'm guessing that might be frowned upon. I understand your frustration around being compensated for your time doing SW updates, but if I were VCUSA and I saw that a Volvo employee (via an associated dealer) was potentially misconstruing non-public info to get customers angry with the brand, I'd be unhappy.
      It is just matter of a few days when customers not getting total software update next scheduled service in August feel pissed off. It is good to know today that VCUSA made this decision. At least you will not be surprised if you bring in car in service next month.

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    7. #75
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      It is just matter of a few days when customers not getting total software update next scheduled service in August feel pissed off. It is good to know today that VCUSA made this decision. At least you will not be surprised if you bring in car in service next month.

      Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk
      Tomorrow, customers will know when coming in for a service that SW is no longer a free labor item provided by Volvo.

      If I didn't post today, customers would post tomorrow. Blow back delayed a day does not make my information misconstrued.
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    8. #76
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Volvo’s Service 2.0 is the package that we offer to our customers as a complimentary enhancement when they service their Volvo. Service 2.0 consists of the same software that can be found in our PDS or Total Upgrade software. This was developed as a no cost tool to create a differentiator from the independent workshops. Due to low installation of Service 2.0 it was determined in March 2018 Customer Service would compensate dealers in the U.S. for their labor to grow installation rates in an effort to increase customer retention and lower warranty expense for Volvo Cars USA.



      However, after careful analysis VCUSA has determined there has not been adequate upside to service retention or customer satisfaction as a result of this goodwill. To date, less than half of the cars eligible for the upgrade are getting it. In addition, we will be removing Complimentary Software updates from our suite of customer promises under the Service by Volvo umbrella. Effective August 1, 2019 Volvo Car USA will cease labor reimbursement associated with the complimentary Service 2.0 software update.



      "potentially misconstruing"? I posted their exact words. There is no mistake, misconstruing, or falsehoods being spread. They dont tell you and make us, the dealer, tell you so your anger is misplaced on us and not them. Its the politics in the automotive world. Some people are dumb enough to get mad at me/the dealership and then buy a volvo from another dealer so the compnay still wins.


      This is fact per Volvo's dealer notification.

      I hope you all get angry and email them. This is my intent. Tell them you are pissed and why. It is time they listen to customers and techs otherwise they wont have either.
      I'm aware of what you posted. But that's VCUSA to its dealer network....NOT a public release that explicitly states that on the customer facing side that they will lose access to free updates. What it does say is that they will remove it from the Service by Volvo umbrella (aka: relationship the customer would have for interacting with dealer for the now un-reimbursed service). It is NOT saying that updates will no longer be supplied to customers free of charge OUTSIDE of the "Service by Volvo" construct. Map updates are not classed under "Service by Volvo", yet they are still freely provided.

      My point here is that you MAY have jumped the gun, and are pissing off customers over something they MAY not see an impact from. There is no public/customer facing notification of this yet, anywhere that I can see or find. And it's a REALLY bad look to VCUSA and your own dealer to have you pissing off people over something that doesn't seem to have been flushed out entirely yet.

      IF they are indeed doing away with complimentary software updates, full stop, and not just doing away with them at the dealer or within the "Service by Volvo" construct, then I will be right out front complaining about that. Based on the language you shared, I'm just not there yet.

    9. #77
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nbvolks View Post
      NOT a public release that explicitly states that on the customer facing side that they will lose access to free updates. .
      Jesus man, let me break this down very simple.

      Volvo make software update (as usual).

      Software update available for your car (as usual).

      I dont work for free. I need money to feed family (as usual).

      Volvo is not paying my labor to give you SW update (NEW PLAN RELEASED TODAY).



      How do you think you will get updates for free like you have until tomorrow?
      Last edited by gunshow; 07-31-2019 at 03:28 PM.
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    10. #78
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      I dont work for free.

      Volvo is not paying my labor.


      How to you think you will get updates for free?
      A) They revert to how it was before 2018...when VCUSA was not reimbursing dealers for that time.
      B) They're moving to OTA, and that may or may not be tied to the reskinned Sensus announcement that's built on Android Auto.

      If you step back, and make it less about you getting paid for your time, and look at it from VCUSA/Volvo's perspective, here is how they would approach it.

      They implemented paying dealers for time in an effort to incentivize a higher amount of cars being put on the newest available software. They determined that incentive wasn't working. But why would they want that higher uptake in the first place? To reduce needless service calls. Reduce customer complaints and brand image around issues that have already been resolved by SW updates. None of that last part has changed. They STILL want a high uptake to avoid unnecessary service calls (because customers hate them) and they would still want to avoid dissatisfied customers complaining about bugs that were long since resolved. If the incentive to get the dealers to push out the SW updates was not effective, then what's the solution? What's the next step? Remove the dealer techs from the process altogether. Make the updates automated. The cars are ALREADY capable of it. They don't need additional hardware or software to switch to OTA.

      Volvo simply saying "F it, we'll make the customers pay for something we 'sold' them as free" doesn't resolve their stated problem in what you shared, and would in fact, make it worse if now the ONLY way a customer can get a SW update is to pay for it or hope they have a generous dealer who will just eat the costs.

      But again, because there's been no public/customer facing notification about this, and it's something that takes effect tomorrow and is a substantive change to a purchase agreement...it leads me to believe that what you shared is only one part of a larger announcement. I should also state that my contacts at VCUSA have gone radio silent when asked directly about this, which is either a coincidence or is in keeping with an announcement that's been embargoed.

    11. #79
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      Well now that it’s not free, I’m really looking forward to seeing how much dealers across the country are going to charge for it. They will easily profit from this too.

    12. #80
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      I feel like this will just cause more owners to falsely claim to have Sensus issues (rebooting, etc) to get a software update under warranty. I have had some genuine rebooting issues and mention them each time I bring my car in for warranty work, but those two visits have coincided with annual maintenance visits, so I don't know how they would have dealt with the issue as a warranty matter. I'm okay with a nominal charge for software updates outside of warranty, but not before.
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    13. #81
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kh0805 View Post
      Well now that it’s not free, I’m really looking forward to seeing how much dealers across the country are going to charge for it. They will easily profit from this too.
      I am working with management to still get 1/2 hour but at a reduced rate for the customer... something like $40-$50. I want to ensure out customers are happy despite volvo once again cutting us at the knees.

      Think about it, i average 4 sevices a day, that is 2 hours a DAY JUST IN SOFTWARE UPDATES that I lose starting tomorrow. That is 10 hours a week minimum I am out. Its like losing a whole day for you normal hourly people. See why i am mad?

      Quote Originally Posted by DenverJaguar View Post
      I feel like this will just cause more owners to falsely claim to have Sensus issues (rebooting, etc) to get a software update under warranty.
      I cant tell you that you're lying when you say it and I must go along with the complaint to attempt to fix it.
      Last edited by gunshow; 07-31-2019 at 04:08 PM.
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    14. #82
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      The other thing worth pointing out is that Google released the new Android Auto yesterday and Volvo and Google had been working very closely together on this.

      https://www.blog.google/products/and...-android-auto/

      Google has included Volvo in demonstrations at Google I/O in 2018 and in 2019.

    15. #83
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      Isn't all this part of the trade war money loosing cuts?

      https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...-half-of-2019/

    16. #84
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      I want to thank gunshow and tech for their information and time on here. They don't have to do it, but they are here giving us insight and updates with regards to our cars. Thanks!!

    17. #85
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      Quote Originally Posted by VTbuckeye View Post
      I want to thank gunshow and tech for their information and time on here. They don't have to do it, but they are here giving us insight and updates with regards to our cars. Thanks!!
      +1 million

    18. #86
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      Quote Originally Posted by rkohou View Post
      Isn't all this part of the trade war money loosing cuts?

      https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...-half-of-2019/
      No, because they're still doing SW development, and lowering the penetration of new SW updates would end up costing them more in potentially wasted warranty fishing expeditions and in new car sales resulting from customer frustration.

    19. #87
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      What I don't get with the theory that "the previously promised free updates aren't free because Volvo will be doing OTA (free or not) very soon" is why separate the OTA announcement (if true) from the end of promised free updates? Doesn't that just make customers angry unecessarily before announcing what may be free (or not free) OTA updates (again, if true)?
      This theory doesn't make sense to me or someone really eff'd up at corporate or corporate communications . . .

      Quote Originally Posted by VTbuckeye View Post
      I want to thank gunshow and tech for their information and time on here. They don't have to do it, but they are here giving us insight and updates with regards to our cars. Thanks!!
      +2
      Thanks also.
      Also, "Truth to power"
      Last edited by Paradox; 08-02-2019 at 10:48 AM. Reason: merged 2 consecutive posts, use multi quote
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    20. #88
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      Quote Originally Posted by VTbuckeye View Post
      I want to thank gunshow and tech for their information and time on here. They don't have to do it, but they are here giving us insight and updates with regards to our cars. Thanks!!
      Quote Originally Posted by ig_mb View Post
      +1 million
      You guys are welcome and I apologize for showing my frustration/anger.
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    21. #89
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      Quote Originally Posted by likeXC90 View Post
      What I don't get with the theory that "the previously promised free updates aren't free because Volvo will be doing OTA (free or not) very soon" is why separate the OTA announcement (if true) from the end of promised free updates? Doesn't that just make customers angry unecessarily before announcing what may be free (or not free) OTA updates (again, if true)?
      This theory doesn't make sense to me or someone really eff'd up at corporate or corporate communications . . .
      As I've said, Volvo has made no public/customer facing announcement about the updates currently provided as part of "Service by Volvo". All we have is what they announced to their dealer network, which is only one half of the equation.

      So to all of us, as customers, nothing has changed yet, they just gave their dealer network a heads up on an aspect of an upcoming change and how it will impact them, as dealers/service providers.

      IF there's a larger context tied to a much anticipated change to Sensus and that announcement is embargoed, it would not be included in a service tech bulletin.
      Last edited by nbvolks; 07-31-2019 at 05:21 PM.

    22. #90
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Think about it, i average 4 sevices a day, that is 2 hours a DAY JUST IN SOFTWARE UPDATES that I lose starting tomorrow. That is 10 hours a week minimum I am out. Its like losing a whole day for you normal hourly people. See why i am mad?
      You work for a Volvo dealer right? Don't you get paid by the Volvo dealer that employs you? Your employer could continue to pay you next week on the same basis as they paid you last week. I'm not saying that they will . . but they could. I have no idea whether or not your employer is a dick, nor the terms of your employment agreement . . I'm just saying that this could make absolutely no difference to you. The dealer will be impacted, for sure, and may chose to pass the cost on to the customer.
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    23. #91
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      Just got service last week and free upgrade. When’s it start?


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    24. #92
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Noonzio View Post
      You work for a Volvo dealer right? Don't you get paid by the Volvo dealer that employs you? Your employer could continue to pay you next week on the same basis as they paid you last week. I'm not saying that they will . . but they could. I have no idea whether or not your employer is a dick, nor the terms of your employment agreement . . I'm just saying that this could make absolutely no difference to you. The dealer will be impacted, for sure, and may chose to pass the cost on to the customer.
      Dealerships across this country do not pay a technician unless they are reimbursed by Volvo (warranty) or a customer (customer pay work). It is very very rare to be paid "internal" for work.
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    25. #93
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Dealerships across this country do not pay a technician unless they are reimbursed by Volvo (warranty) or a customer (customer pay work). It is very very rare to be paid "internal" for work.
      I understand that - so if the dealership imposes a fee for customers to get software updates, the only person impacted will be the customer.
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    26. #94
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      Quote Originally Posted by nbvolks View Post
      As I've said, Volvo has made no public/customer facing announcement about the updates currently provided as part of "Service by Volvo". ...
      IF there's a larger context tied to a much anticipated change to Sensus and that announcement is embargoed, it would not be included in a service tech bulletin.
      I really hope you're right that we're missing the forthcoming full story which is to the betterment of all (dealers, customers, corporate). This action, taken by itself, is not the Volvo that attracted me to the brand in the first place and just seems so out of character from the Volvo I've come to know . . .
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    27. #95
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      Quote Originally Posted by likeXC90 View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by nbvolks View Post
      As I've said, Volvo has made no public/customer facing announcement about the updates currently provided as part of "Service by Volvo". ...
      IF there's a larger context tied to a much anticipated change to Sensus and that announcement is embargoed, it would not be included in a service tech bulletin.
      I really hope you're right that we're missing the forthcoming full story which is to the betterment of all (dealers, customers, corporate). This action, taken by itself, is not the Volvo that attracted me to the brand in the first place and just seems so out of character from the Volvo I've come to know . . .
      Me too!

      Though this is definitely a net loss for dealers. They were getting paid for book value of 30 minutes on something that I'd hope wasn't taking a tech 30 minutes of their undivided attention, with them sitting there watching the download and upload.

    28. #96
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      well, Volvo likes to trot our their namby pamby good PR like the Tows for Life garbage, I'm going to throw this tip to every car blog and put some negative PR on these turds for once.

      **** these guys really....


      ….on the other hand the **** dealers lost an advantage they have over indy shops, so that's good for me at least.....but horrible for Volvo as a brand.
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    29. #97
      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      You are wrong... I will say this AGAIN.... if there is a vehicle repair under warranty that requires SW, we will be compensated.

      This is just the free SW during services that we are no longer compensated for doing.



      OTA will never happen. Vehicles are crashing while connected via ethernet and wifi for no apparent reason at the dealers. This takes hours of repair to get the vehicle running again. OTA WILL NOT HAPPEN!!!!
      Well glad I am wrong on that accord....But updates and Upgrades out of warranty won't be complementary....Correct?

      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      OTA is no more special or "secure connection" than the wifi SW downloads we do at the dealer. It is also no more secure than ethernet.

      I am not taking offense to anything but its stupid to say OTA (cellular) is more secure than ethernet directly from a laptop/desktop.


      The customer side is as usual dumped on the dealer/tech. Volvo cares less about us techs than customers. They said we can continue to do it for free or not do it at all. I dont know about you guys but I never work for free. Especially with the hazards that come along with the SW updates.
      Geely is forever finding new ways to crap on techs and customers....Any guesses on what else they can crap on next?

      Quote Originally Posted by Noonzio View Post
      You work for a Volvo dealer right? Don't you get paid by the Volvo dealer that employs you? Your employer could continue to pay you next week on the same basis as they paid you last week. I'm not saying that they will . . but they could. I have no idea whether or not your employer is a dick, nor the terms of your employment agreement . . I'm just saying that this could make absolutely no difference to you. The dealer will be impacted, for sure, and may chose to pass the cost on to the customer.
      I believe Tech said Tesla is a flat rate. Most techs work by the job and are not on a flat salary. Thus, those book hours (even if it takes 1/2 the time) is what keeps the service department running and techs paid .
      Last edited by Paradox; 08-02-2019 at 10:48 AM. Reason: merged 3 consecutive posts, use multi quote

    30. #98
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      Your phone OS, PC OS, can be upgraded overnight without attention from you. Car software if made more robust, can do it too.
      And all of those devices are usually connected to a power source when those updates take place. If not, the software monitors the battery status before doing the update. I don't see doing a total software update over the air on the vehicle unless it's a T8 and maybe only then when plugged in to the charger. I certainly don't trust the 12v battery to do an OTA update at my house.
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    31. #99
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      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      Volvo doesnt tell us what the rest of the world warranty pays or does. My assumption is company wide/worldwide. BUT the rest of the world has salary/hourly technicians and not flat rate so they (worldwide techs) could care less more than likely. Volvo is noticeably pinching pennies everywhere they can.
      Volvo is not the only large corporation pinching pennies. I deal with several large corporations and they are all cost conscious and stock price conscious. Free spending is not like it once was.
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      Well, I never got updates for free. So I guess this just gets the rest of the network in synch with my (former) dealership...

      No, sure, it sucks. But the problem is not free vs. not-free updates. The problem is the clunky update process.

    33. #101
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by gunshow View Post
      You are wrong... I will say this AGAIN.... if there is a vehicle repair under warranty that requires SW, we will be compensated.

      This is just the free SW during services that we are no longer compensated for doing.



      OTA will never happen. Vehicles are crashing while connected via ethernet and wifi for no apparent reason at the dealers. This takes hours of repair to get the vehicle running again. OTA WILL NOT HAPPEN!!!!
      Well glad I am wrong on that accord....But updates and Upgrades out of warranty won't be complementary....Correct?
      Updates in warranty that are not to fix a problem or updates out of warranty for any reason won't be paid for by Volvo.


      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Noonzio View Post
      You work for a Volvo dealer right? Don't you get paid by the Volvo dealer that employs you? Your employer could continue to pay you next week on the same basis as they paid you last week. I'm not saying that they will . . but they could. I have no idea whether or not your employer is a dick, nor the terms of your employment agreement . . I'm just saying that this could make absolutely no difference to you. The dealer will be impacted, for sure, and may chose to pass the cost on to the customer.
      I believe Tech said Tesla is a flat rate. Most techs work by the job and are not on a flat salary. Thus, those book hours (even if it takes 1/2 the time) is what keeps the service department running and techs paid .
      Tesla is not flat rate. Flat rate is what gunshow and myself work on. Tesla is straight hourly.

    34. #102
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      Quote Originally Posted by nbvolks View Post
      This is also why I think they're switching to OTA. It can quietly update in the background any time the car is on. Complete the full download, then notify the owner that the update is ready to be installed, and will do so during a pre-selected time (overnight, for example) that the owner selects. That's essentially what they've been doing for the map updates, and is how Android/Apple do their updates, so it's a natural transition for Volvo to make to cut costs and increase uptake.
      Didn’t plow through all the pages here, but, yes, this I what I’m hoping for.
      18 XC60 T6 Inscription- everything except lux seating
      12 VW Eos Executive
      Past Volvo’s: 2016 V60 T5 Platinum FWD, 2016 XC90 T6 Inscription

    35. #103
      Member inteller's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by LowlyOilBurner View Post
      Didn’t plow through all the pages here, but, yes, this I what I’m hoping for.

      oh sure, that will work out just GREAT for P1, P2, and P3 cars! And you would be amazed at the updates that are available for these cars long after they stopped production!
      2016 Bright Silver Metallic XC90 T8 Inscription, everything
      2015.5 Rebel Blue S60 Polestar 18/40
      2006 Passion Red S60R
      Packages: Premium, Climate Options: Sport Appearance Package, 18" Pegs, 6Spd Geartronic, Navigation
      Accessories: Sunglasses holder, Sirius Radio, Volvo Digital Jukebox Mods:SS DEM Mod
      "Just say no to LV VIN codes"

    36. #104
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      What Volvo has done is throw this issue to the dealers to handle. Some will do the right thing by their customers, and some will look to profit. Be selective if you can.
      2020 xc60 "Polestar Engineered", crystal white.
      2019 xc40 T5-R Bursting Blue Premium & Advanced Packs.

    37. #105
      Junior Member gunshow's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Tesla is not flat rate. Flat rate is what gunshow and myself work on. Tesla is straight hourly.

      Time for a revolution and revolt my friend.

      I will actively tell future techs and kids looking to go to automotive school to steer clear of Volvo and flat rate shops. Once the industry has more of a shortage than it does now, things will change. Dont get me wrong, I am very efficient and make a great living but every year is a new cut into my flat rate hours.

      Quote Originally Posted by xgman View Post
      What Volvo has done is throw this issue to the dealers to handle. Some will do the right thing by their customers, and some will look to profit. Be selective if you can.
      When you say profit, you mean to say we dont work for free so somebody has to pay us to do the work.
      Last edited by Paradox; 08-02-2019 at 10:46 AM. Reason: merged 2 consecutive posts, use multi quote
      Disgruntled Volvo Technician & Owner.

      DO NOT PM me with your car questions.


      DO NOT GO INTO THE CAR BUSINESS.

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